Bruschi: ‘Gronkowski is the best tight end I’ve ever seen’

[The Old Crow]

Forget the injuries as that is moot. Are you saying talent for talent, skill for skill, that Mackey is better than Gronk?

Absolutely. He is an all time great that redefined the position like Unitas. Gronk has a ways to go.

[The Old Crow]

Mike Ditka says hi . . .

If have watched football as long as you infer there are more than just one TE to "define" the position which has evolved over the years . . . and yes Ditka was on the scene two years before Mackey . . . and had to make due with the Bears and did not have Johnny U. throwing to him . . .

NFL Network also picked Mackey #1. No diss to Ditka, who may be 1B. I thought Ditka was a fabulous player, but Mackey revolutionized the tight end position with both size and speed.

[ViriLudant]

Absolutely. He is an all time great that redefined the position like Unitas. Gronk has a ways to go.

False in every way imaginable.

Name one way in that Gronk is deficient.

[jvan1973]

False in every way imaginable.

Name one way in that Gronk is deficient.

He is made of glass

[Yehoodi]

NFL Network also picked Mackey #1. No diss to Ditka, who may be 1B. I thought Ditka was a fabulous player, but Mackey revolutionized the tight end position with both size and speed.

 

NFLN can say what it wants . . . bottom line is there is more than one player that have defined the position . . . Kellen Winslow is another example when he took the position and made it a receiving threat . . . Mackey was a great player there is no question . . . I was just trying to point out that the position has evolved over time and it take a great player and perhaps a change in philosophy of the sport (so the player can have the opportunity to do so) to change the position . . . the TE position in football is not due to a single player and it is not played in the same manner in which Mackey played it, therefore someone, most consider it Winslow, needed to change it to a receiving threat . . .   

 

Gronk may be the first TE to have the size and blocking ability as the old school TEs but yet have the speed and talent to be a serious receiving threat and more importantly red zone threat . . . Gronk like Winslow has the talent to be in the same category of the wide receivers . . . not so sure that Mackey and Dikta could state the same claim . . . down the road you may start to see TEs who are trained and channeled into the mode of both a serious blocking threat and a serious receiving threat . . . till Gronk you had either one or the other . . . but not a TE who was tops in the game in both categories . . .

[-JJ-]

NFLN can say what it wants . . . bottom line is there is more than one player that have defined the position . . . Kellen Winslow is another example when he took the position and made it a receiving threat . . . Mackey was a great player there is no question . . . I was just trying to point out that the position has evolved over time and it take a great player and perhaps a change in philosophy of the sport (so the player can have the opportunity to do so) to change the position . . . the TE position in football is not due to a single player and it is not played in the same manner in which Mackey played it, therefore someone, most consider it Winslow, needed to change it to a receiving threat . . .   

 

Gronk may be the first TE to have the size and blocking ability as the old school TEs but yet have the speed and talent to be a serious receiving threat and more importantly red zone threat . . . Gronk like Winslow has the talent to be in the same category of the wide receivers . . . not so sure that Mackey and Dikta could state the same claim . . . down the road you may start to see TEs who are trained and channeled into the mode of both a serious blocking threat and a serious receiving threat . . . till Gronk you had either one or the other . . . but not a TE who was tops in the game in both categories . . .

I forget if Russ Francis could block but he was a top receiver. Then there's Bledsoe's binky..I always forget his name but he was money on 3rd down. Those days the TE was the go to on 3rd and 5-8.

Dave Casper was good because he had good stickum

[amfootball]

I forget if Russ Francis could block but he was a top receiver. Then there's Bledsoe's binky..I always forget his name but he was money on 3rd down. Those days the TE was the go to on 3rd and 5-8.

Ben Coates.

 

I have never seen a TE with Gronk's combo of blocking, receiving, speed and red zone prowess. He is the most complete player at the position. And something else too. What WRs has be had to play with to roll the coverage? Basically teams come into the game specifically game planning to stop him. There are no big threats anywhere else in the pass game.

[Yehoodi]

I forget if Russ Francis could block but he was a top receiver. Then there's Bledsoe's binky..I always forget his name but he was money on 3rd down. Those days the TE was the go to on 3rd and 5-8.

Dave Casper was good because he had good stickum

 

Ben Coates . . .

 

Yes there have been a lot of great TEs . . . if I recall Russ Francis as a world class javelin thrower . . .

 

Ah . . . the raiders and the stickum . . . they had a lot of it . . .   . . . then again today gloves are better than the stickum . . .

[ViriLudant]

He is made of glass

Nice try. His injuries were legit injuries that would have happened to every single person in those situations. Helmet to forearm = broken arm, someone rolling up on your knee= ACL injury.

[-JJ-]

Ben Coates . . .

 

Yes there have been a lot of great TEs . . . if I recall Russ Francis as a world class javelin thrower . . .

 

Ah . . . the raiders and the stickum . . . they had a lot of it . . .   . . . then again today gloves are better than the stickum . . .

I didn't think of today's gloves. So that's how they make those one handed catches

Russ Francis was also a pilot.

[hawkeyes]

Homer!

 

Personally rather have Graham over him .... and in the past Gates and Gonzalez much better!  Sure if i wanted to sit down and think about it I could come up with several more too!

[ViriLudant]

Homer!

Personally rather have Graham over him .... and in the past Gates and Gonzalez much better! Sure if i wanted to sit down and think about it I could come up with several more too!

Much better? Than how come he scores TDs at a MUCH faster rate?

Graham sucks at blocking, btw. He's not a TE, as he argued to the NFL.

[Moose Of Woe]

Being made of glass isn't a knock on a person's skill level and what they bring to the field.

Exhibit A: Bob Sanders.

 

Even then, Gronk's injuries were all about getting rolled up weird or hit in some cheap way. Not like a guy like Bob Sanders who tears his pecs in practice or Gonzo who just tears an ACL untouched. THOSE guys were glass.

 

Gronk may very well be the most physically gifted TE in NFL history. He doesn't have all of the accolades yet, but he has the potential for them. I'd take him while healthy over any TE in history including Gonzalez, Gates, and Graham. Gonzalez imo has been the best to ever play until Gronk came along.

 

Tony is the total package, but so is Gronk and he is that much better to set him apart. He is like the Rice of TE's. You could even put him as MVP of the league and be justified, since he's the best player playing right now. That's crazy for a TE.

[JerodMayo51]

I forget if Russ Francis could block but he was a top receiver. Then there's Bledsoe's binky..I always forget his name but he was money on 3rd down. Those days the TE was the go to on 3rd and 5-8.

Dave Casper was good because he had good stickum

 

Ben Coates

[JerodMayo51]

Homer!

 

Personally rather have Graham over him .... and in the past Gates and Gonzalez much better!  Sure if i wanted to sit down and think about it I could come up with several more too!

 

Do you even realize the only person who has scored close to as many touchdowns as Gronk over the last 3 years is Calvin Johnson?  You understand that right?  Hes already surpassed some past Hall of Fame tight ends CAREER TOUCHDOWNS in only 3 years, WITH MAJOR INJURIES.

 

Graham missed a bunch of games from an injury.. no knock on him from people here... Graham can't block worth a spit.. no knock on him from people here...  Graham has produced nowhere near the touchdowns that Gronk has... no knock on him from people here.

 

Notice a pattern?  Keep drinking the haterade... its too bad to, because talents like him dont come around very often and if you spend all your time hating on him and not watching him play, you'll miss seeing greatness in action.

[The Old Crow]

Right now, there is the John Mackey Award for the nations top tight end. As it stands right now, Gronk might be awarding the animal house party award. Don't get me wrong, he's a good tight end, but not in the legends category yet. If he can stay healthy, maybe he will get into the conversation.

[OldManP]

Gronkowski isn't even the greatest Tight End in Patriots' history.  That would be Mike Vrabel, he of the 10 career regular season receptions with all going for touchdowns.  Two in Super Bowl games, for a total of 12, all for TDs.  What TE can match that record? 

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/mikevrabel/2503480/careerstats

[ViriLudant]

Right now, there is the John Mackey Award for the nations top tight end. As it stands right now, Gronk might be awarding the animal house party award. Don't get me wrong, he's a good tight end, but not in the legends category yet. If he can stay healthy, maybe he will get into the conversation.

Sounds like someone won't look at his stats or actual performance .

[The Old Crow]

Sounds like someone won't look at his stats or actual performance .

I've looked at it, and he's a good tight end. We know we are comparing different eras, and today's game is more pass oriented than those days. Before we put him in Mackey or Ditka territory, let's see if he can get through a few more seasons uninjured , and makes the HOF down the line, before you guys put him in that category.

[amfootball]

I've looked at it, and he's a good tight end. We know we are comparing different eras, and today's game is more pass oriented than those days. Before we put him in Mackey or Ditka territory, let's see if he can get through a few more seasons uninjured , and makes the HOF down the line, before you guys put him in that category.

That is weak. Even if Gronk was healthy that past 5 seasons it would still only be 5 seasons. No one is saying he is ready for the hall right now as he is still building his resume. But what is amazing is in those 5 seasons of which he has only played 2 full seasons he has been already breaking records of career TEs. That is the point we are making. He has been that special already. Of course he has to play more and stay healthy but honestly he won't have to play anywhere close to 15 seasons to break all the records. And again, he has done it without the Pats having a legit number one WR to roll coverage. He is the guy that defenses are trying to stop and game planning for every game.

[sweetsurrender]

I've looked at it, and he's a good tight end. We know we are comparing different eras, and today's game is more pass oriented than those days. Before we put him in Mackey or Ditka territory, let's see if he can get through a few more seasons uninjured , and makes the HOF down the line, before you guys put him in that category.

He is the best TE in the game of his era so far. That is the main criteria for the hall. He dominated the Colts with his blocking and not his passing skills and that was the area we all were most worried about with good reason given his last catch was a rumble over most of defense to the end zone from the 20. That is how much of a force he is whether he is going out for passes or staying on the line. 

[The Old Crow]

That is weak. Even if Gronk was healthy that past 5 seasons it would still only be 5 seasons. No one is saying he is ready for the hall right now as he is still building his resume. But what is amazing is in those 5 seasons of which he has only played 2 full seasons he has been already breaking records of career TEs. That is the point we are making. He has been that special already. Of course he has to play more and stay healthy but honestly he won't have to play anywhere close to 15 seasons to break all the records. And again, he has done it without the Pats having a legit number one WR to roll coverage. He is the guy that defenses are trying to stop and game planning for every game.

We shall see. The injuries are piling up, and that takes a toll on a player. Because the Pats don't have many other receiving options, he will be roughed up even more. I saw what happened to Jamal Lewis in Baltimore, and how they used him in the RB position like they use Gronk as a TE. After the 2000 yard year , it steadily went downhill. He is in the Ravens Ring of Honor, but not the Hall of Fame. He has been special for a couple years like Jamal Lewis. I want to see more meat on the bones before I anoint him as best I've ever seen, or best of an era. Sorry, the grade is incomplete.

[King Colt]

In no universe ever.

Please explain how his offensive output is literally 10x those three you mentioned. Gronk is tied for 2nd all time in getting to 50 TDs fastest.

Casper had 52 TDs.

Mackey had 38 TDs.

Ditka had 43 career TDs.

Gronk already has 51.

Gronk has the record for most yards in a season for a TE.

Not even close.

You seem to forget one important FACT; The three I listed were never protected by the "pamper the poor little receivers" rules that exist today. Ditka, Casper and Mackey had top war the defenses to get open as opposed to the ridiculous pampering in the name of uping the scores rules of today. You have no case.

[The Old Crow]

He is the best TE in the game of his era so far. That is the main criteria for the hall. He dominated the Colts with his blocking and not his passing skills and that was the area we all were most worried about with good reason given his last catch was a rumble over most of defense to the end zone from the 20. That is how much of a force he is whether he is going out for passes or staying on the line.

So far, unless injuries derail him like in the past.

[amfootball]

We shall see. The injuries are piling up, and that takes a toll on a player. Because the Pats don't have many other receiving options, he will be roughed up even more. I saw what happened to Jamal Lewis in Baltimore, and how they used him in the RB position like they use Gronk as a TE. After the 2000 yard year , it steadily went downhill. He is in the Ravens Ring of Honor, but not the Hall of Fame. He has been special for a couple years like Jamal Lewis. I want to see more meat on the bones before I anoint him as best I've ever seen, or best of an era. Sorry, the grade is incomplete.

Ok, that is fair. We have to see his career play out. But the issue is not whether he is the best as he is, right now, in the game. He is also the most complete TE as well.

 

I also don't see his injuries as a factor of "breaking down." He is not out with ham string issues or sprained ankles. He had his ankle broke, his forearm broke (twice) and his knee blown up. He is playing smarter now I think and the Pats are also being more protective of him. We will see how it goes.

[The Old Crow]

Ok, that is fair. We have to see his career play out. But the issue is not whether he is the best as he is, right now, in the game. He is also the most complete TE as well.

I also don't see his injuries as a factor of "breaking down." He is not out with ham string issues or sprained ankles. He had his ankle broke, his forearm broke (twice) and his knee blown up. He is playing smarter now I think and the Pats are also being more protective of him. We will see how it goes.

By the way, another somewhat comparable guy is Todd Heap who played for the Ravens. Gronk's stats are much better, but Heap is another Ring of Honor guy, but injuries kept him from going higher up the latter.

[amfootball]

By the way, another somewhat comparable guy is Todd Heap who played for the Ravens. Gronk's stats are much better, but Heap is another Ring of Honor guy, but injuries kept him from going higher up the latter.

Injuries or Kyle Boller? ;)

[JerodMayo51]

We shall see. The injuries are piling up, and that takes a toll on a player. Because the Pats don't have many other receiving options, he will be roughed up even more. I saw what happened to Jamal Lewis in Baltimore, and how they used him in the RB position like they use Gronk as a TE. After the 2000 yard year , it steadily went downhill. He is in the Ravens Ring of Honor, but not the Hall of Fame. He has been special for a couple years like Jamal Lewis. I want to see more meat on the bones before I anoint him as best I've ever seen, or best of an era. Sorry, the grade is incomplete.

Gronk is 25 years old....

The forearm is a non issue at this point, and he's obviously recovered from the knee injury which is a common procedure these days.

You're talking as if hes an aging RB that has thousands of carries under his belt.

Gronk won't get slowed down by "wear and tear" any time in the next 10 years, the only thing that slows him down are mechanical injuries like broken bones and torn ligaments

[JerodMayo51]

You seem to forget one important FACT; The three I listed were never protected by the "pamper the poor little receivers" rules that exist today. Ditka, Casper and Mackey had top war the defenses to get open as opposed to the ridiculous pampering in the name of uping the scores rules of today. You have no case.

, you think Gronk is a pampered receiver? You must not have seen him play then... he trucks even pro bowl linebackers... go watch the YouTube video of him sending Terrell Suggs into orbit with a shove off the line, before he ran his route.

The guy is a monster.. he doesn't get pushed around, he pushes people around.

To suggest that athletes 50 years ago were better, stronger or tougher than Gronk is laughable.

Athletes are bigger, stronger and faster these days.. and that is 100% fact.

[JerodMayo51]

So far, unless injuries derail him like in the past.

Even if he got injured every other year for the rest of his career, he'll still obliterate nearly every TE record there is.

Injuries have nothing to do with talent, and the fact that he's out producing every TE that has ever come before him DESPITE his injuries and missed games just further supports how special he is.

[-JJ-]

Being made of glass isn't a knock on a person's skill level and what they bring to the field.

Exhibit A: Bob Sanders.

 

Even then, Gronk's injuries were all about getting rolled up weird or hit in some cheap way. Not like a guy like Bob Sanders who tears his pecs in practice or Gonzo who just tears an ACL untouched. THOSE guys were glass.

 

Gronk may very well be the most physically gifted TE in NFL history. He doesn't have all of the accolades yet, but he has the potential for them. I'd take him while healthy over any TE in history including Gonzalez, Gates, and Graham. Gonzalez imo has been the best to ever play until Gronk came along.

 

Tony is the total package, but so is Gronk and he is that much better to set him apart. He is like the Rice of TE's. You could even put him as MVP of the league and be justified, since he's the best player playing right now. That's crazy for a TE.

Also Dallas Clark was labeled "made out of glass" early on but he stayed injury free for most of his career. You just can't predict injuries.

[The Old Crow]

Injuries or Kyle Boller? ;)

I have to agree with you on that one. Boller was a bum.

[OldManP]

You seem to forget one important FACT; The three I listed were never protected by the "pamper the poor little receivers" rules that exist today. Ditka, Casper and Mackey had top war the defenses to get open as opposed to the ridiculous pampering in the name of uping the scores rules of today. You have no case.

By the same criteria, would you disqualify Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne from the HOF?

[BOTT]

I didn't think of today's gloves. So that's how they make those one handed catches :)Russ Francis was also a pilot.

I tried a pair of those gloves awhile back.....I don't know how these guys ever drop a pass. I kinda wish the nfl would ban them.

[BOTT]

Gronk is 25 years old....

The forearm is a non issue at this point, and he's obviously recovered from the knee injury which is a common procedure these days.

You're talking as if hes an aging RB that has thousands of carries under his belt.

Gronk won't get slowed down by "wear and tear" any time in the next 10 years, the only thing that slows him down are mechanical injuries like broken bones and torn ligaments

You may be right, but the guy has had two back surgeries. You rarely meet people who "used to have back problems."

[-JJ-]

I tried a pair of those gloves awhile back.....I don't know how these guys ever drop a pass. I kinda wish the nfl would ban them.

yeah I didn't realize they were that sticky.

The high one hand catches are still cool but not sure I'm so impressed now

[The Old Crow]

If Bruschi would have said that he was the most dominating TE this year, he may have been right, but the best he's ever seen ! You think as an announcer , he would have at least seen films and knew the history of some of the all time greats. Naturally, as a Patriot sycophant , he is better suited for NESN than ESPN , however it's almost the same thing as with both entities , you get more Boston or New York , than most of the other NFL cities.

[BOTT]

If Bruschi would have said that he was the most dominating TE this year, he may have been right, but the best he's ever seen ! You think as an announcer , he would have at least seen films and knew the history of some of the all time greats. Naturally, as a Patriot sycophant , he is better suited for NESN than ESPN , however it's almost the same thing as with both entities , you get more Boston or New York , than most of the other NFL cities.

Not a fan of Bruschi, but he's right. Those old guys can't compare to Gronk.

[amfootball]

If Bruschi would have said that he was the most dominating TE this year, he may have been right, but the best he's ever seen ! You think as an announcer , he would have at least seen films and knew the history of some of the all time greats. Naturally, as a Patriot sycophant , he is better suited for NESN than ESPN , however it's almost the same thing as with both entities , you get more Boston or New York , than most of the other NFL cities.

[The Old Crow]

I think he meant what he said and he was basing it on the history of the game. Gronk has been the best since he entered the league. He set the TE records for a single season in his second year. This isn't hyperbole or a Boston/Pats bias. Many agree with Bruschi.