Broncos exposed -- AFC wide open (merge)

[GoPats]

What happened to Brady happens quite often when the ball is thrown high. Welker, on the other hand, should have been able to catch that ball in his sleep. Again, I'm not saying those two plays cost the broncos a victory, but I think they would have come away not feeling horrible.

 

Welker seems like a much different player to me. The last 10 months or so have not been very kind to him. I think he's a bit shell-shocked and has taken a lot of big hits in Denver. I think it was a harder catch than it looked, with the ball coming in on his back (right, the way he was turned) hip, but I think he was looking around a little prior to hauling it in. 

 

I agree to disagree...Mannings throw was a good not great throw....with just the worst attempt at a catch I've ever seen a receiver make....Welker looked like one of the 3 stooges out there on that play...it wasn't a perfect pass don't get me wrong but that catch gets made 95% of the time. Peyton had several other bad throws...like that other one behind Welker that almost got picked when he got pressured and he tried to step up. Brady was outstanding though..just let that one get away from him....it hurt them and could have turned momentum...but he was too on-fire to let that happen and squashed the rebellion pretty quickly...aided by Welkers flub. All in all I just thought wouldn't have put that int on Amendola....but I understand people see it different.

 

I wouldn't put it on Amendola either. All I was originally saying is each QB had a pick off an unusual bounce/deflection. 

[amfootball]

What happened to Brady happens quite often when the ball is thrown high. Welker, on the other hand, should have been able to catch that ball in his sleep. Again, I'm not saying those two plays cost the broncos a victory, but I think they would have come away not feeling horrible.

The timing of the Welker bobble was brutal. The Broncos has just scored and had the ball back and looked read to go drive again and he popped that ball up like a volleyball and one play later Brady hit Lafells for a TD and it was game over. I don't know what it is about the guy but he is a knack for making a bad play at the absolute worst time.

[amfootball]

Welker seems like a much different player to me. The last 10 months or so have not been very kind to him. I think he's a bit shell-shocked and has taken a lot of big hits in Denver. I think it was a harder catch than it looked, with the ball coming in on his back (right, the way he was turned) hip, but I think he was looking around a little prior to hauling it in. 

 

 

I wouldn't put it on Amendola either. All I was originally saying is each QB had a pick off an unusual bounce/deflection. 

I have always thought Welker would have been better off in NE. The offense was made for him with the underneath stuff that Brady throws but at this point Edelman is a lot better than him as a receiver and a punt returner. It is amazing to see what has happened in 10 months but such is life as a WR when you hit your 30's.

[GoPats]

I have always thought Welker would have been better off in NE. The offense was made for him with the underneath stuff that Brady throws but at this point Edelman is a lot better than him as a receiver and a punt returner. It is amazing to see what has happened in 10 months but such is life as a WR when you hit your 30's.

 

I always try to remember I'm an inch taller than Welker and a mere 10 pounds lighter. If I took one hit from an NFL defender I'd probably be in the hospital for a week, lol...

 

He's been so durable during his career. It was bound to catch up with him at some point. 

[JerodMayo51]

What happened to Brady happens quite often when the ball is thrown high. Welker, on the other hand, should have been able to catch that ball in his sleep. Again, I'm not saying those two plays cost the broncos a victory, but I think they would have come away not feeling horrible.

That throw to Welker was identical to the throw he dropped in the Pats last superbowl. Same type of route, same ball placement where Welker had to twist his body to adjust.

A catch Welker should make, but not in his sleep

[amfootball]

That throw to Welker was identical to the throw he dropped in the Pats last superbowl. Same type of route, same ball placement where Welker had to twist his body to adjust.

A catch Welker should make, but not in his sleep

Did we all watch the same play? Manning hit him right in the hands about 15 yards down field! It was a hair behind him. He had his head on a swivel looking for McCourtney who was about to lay the wood which is why he popped it up. The SB throw was 25 yards down field to his off shoulder and high because he stumbled coming out of his break.

[BOTT]

That throw to Welker was identical to the throw he dropped in the Pats last superbowl. Same type of route, same ball placement where Welker had to twist his body to adjust.

A catch Welker should make, but not in his sleep

Not remotely true

[dgambill]

Did we all watch the same play? Manning hit him right in the hands about 15 yards down field! It was a hair behind him. He had his head on a swivel looking for McCourtney who was about to lay the wood which is why he popped it up. The SB throw was 25 yards down field to his off shoulder and high because he stumbled coming out of his break.

Exactly....I'm not trying to be disagreable but it was no where near as hard of a catch as the SB one. He didn't have to jump and twist at all...the throw was ever so slightly behind him...had he caught it he would have plenty of time to get down as he usually does in those situations where he dives at the on coming defenders feet....it was the worst play I've ever seen the guy make.....if he simply dropped it nothing happens but it bounces off his chest and when it gets out in front of him he reaches out and pops it up in the air like some kind of charlie brown play lol. He looked more like Julius Peppers against NO than like a 6 time pro bowl receiver...it would have been comical had it not been such a devastating hit/turnover....it effectively ended any possible comeback attempt. It was brutal....I'm not going to say Peyton couldn't have thrown a better ball...but not much better...it was a legit target on his part in my humble opinion. The SB play Welker stumbled a bit and thus made him late getting to where Tom anticipated him being...thus making the ball high and behind the receiver...it was a tough catch for Welker (although not uncatchable..just a hard one)...the other night...thats a routine play in my book. Earlier he saved Peyton by fighting a bad throw away from a defender so Peyton wasn't great the other night but that play I wouldn't characterize as on him. I like Brady...he is such a clutch competitor...but putting that one int on Amendola I think would be harsh...it was a bad pass that even if Amendola doesn't tip could have been intercepted...to me thats a typical int waiting to happen....not as bad as Peyton's where he completely got fooled by the dropping LB but bad non-the-less. Either way the game was won by the Pat offense vs horrible Denver defense...and Peyton didn't keep it close because he played underpar....that adds up to a lopsided score everytime.

[amfootball]

Exactly....I'm not trying to be disagreable but it was no where near as hard of a catch as the SB one. He didn't have to jump and twist at all...the throw was ever so slightly behind him...had he caught it he would have plenty of time to get down as he usually does in those situations where he dives at the on coming defenders feet....it was the worst play I've ever seen the guy make.....if he simply dropped it nothing happens but it bounces off his chest and when it gets out in front of him he reaches out and pops it up in the air like some kind of charlie brown play lol. He looked more like Julius Peppers against NO than like a 6 time pro bowl receiver...it would have been comical had it not been such a devastating hit/turnover....it effectively ended any possible comeback attempt. It was brutal....I'm not going to say Peyton couldn't have thrown a better ball...but not much better...it was a legit target on his part in my humble opinion. The SB play Welker stumbled a bit and thus made him late getting to where Tom anticipated him being...thus making the ball high and behind the receiver...it was a tough catch for Welker (although not uncatchable..just a hard one)...the other night...thats a routine play in my book. Earlier he saved Peyton by fighting a bad throw away from a defender so Peyton wasn't great the other night but that play I wouldn't characterize as on him. I like Brady...he is such a clutch competitor...but putting that one int on Amendola I think would be harsh...it was a bad pass that even if Amendola doesn't tip could have been intercepted...to me thats a typical int waiting to happen....not as bad as Peyton's where he completely got fooled by the dropping LB but bad non-the-less. Either way the game was won by the Pat offense vs horrible Denver defense...and Peyton didn't keep it close because he played underpar....that adds up to a lopsided score everytime.

I fear that Welker's legacy will be all his momentous drops. A shame really because he was the best slot guy for so many years but has come to be defined by bad, bad plays the last few years of his career ...

[PATS16N0]

Welker heard footsteps. Peyton completely hung him out to dry on that play and he was going to get destroyed.

[Qwiz]

At least Welker didn't end up with another concussion this time. That hit was brutal though.

[GoPats]

At least Welker didn't end up with another concussion this time. That hit was brutal though.

 

It was. My back still hurts three days later just from watching it. 

[GoPats]

I don't like the term "exposed" and agree it's over-used. 

 

I'm still not sure about Denver's defense. Maybe the Patriots match up well with Miller and Ware... I think TJ Ward may be the most overrated signing of the offseason though. Guy can't cover anyone. He also dove at Gronk's legs again, lol... 

[jvan1973]

I don't like the term "exposed" and agree it's over-used.

I'm still not sure about Denver's defense. Maybe the Patriots match up well with Miller and Ware... I think TJ Ward may be the most overrated signing of the offseason though. Guy can't cover anyone. He also dove at Gronk's legs again, lol...

All DBs are going to go for his legs, why would they go high and get trucked?

[Moose Of Woe]

I'm still not sure about Denver's defense.

It's pretty cut and dry. Great against the run, can't cover for crap if the pass rush doesn't get there quickly.

 

Pretty much any decent QB with a little time to throw will tear them apart. Brady is a great QB with a lot of time to throw, the results speak for themselves. The Broncos' best hope with that stupid 4 man rush all night was that the Patriots would drop a few more passes lol.... Del Rio.

[ram29jackson]

Denver lost to Pats during season last year and it meant nothing

[jvan1973]

Denver lost to Pats during season last year and it meant nothing

where are you picks for this week?

[JerodMayo51]

Denver lost to Pats during season last year and it meant nothing

 

last year was last year

[ram29jackson]

last year was last year

 

the point being, people forget... and odds are they thought the same thing last year

[amfootball]

I don't like the term "exposed" and agree it's over-used. 

 

I'm still not sure about Denver's defense. Maybe the Patriots match up well with Miller and Ware... I think TJ Ward may be the most overrated signing of the offseason though. Guy can't cover anyone. He also dove at Gronk's legs again, lol... 

Yeah, Ward was burned all day. So was Talib but he has been playing well all season for them. I do think Ward is overrated.

[amfootball]

All DBs are going to go for his legs, why would they go high and get trucked?

True but you can tackle him low without dive bombing right at his surgically repaired knee that you blew up last year.

[jvan1973]

True but you can tackle him low without dive bombing right at his surgically repaired knee that you blew up last year.

He is a big dude that runs hard. He will be taking shots at his legs as long as he plays. Just like all big TEs

[amfootball]

He is a big dude that runs hard. He will be taking shots at his legs as long as he plays. Just like all big TEs

Sure we all know that. But that does not preclude Ward taking a dirty shot at him. If you watched the play, Gronk saw him coming and lifted his leg to avoid the same result as last year.

[jvan1973]

Sure we all know that. But that does not preclude Ward taking a dirty shot at him. If you watched the play, Gronk saw him coming and lifted his leg to avoid the same result as last year.

Going low isn't dirty, its football. Players get hit in the legs in every game every season

[amfootball]

Going low isn't dirty, its football. Players get hit in the legs in every game every season

I agree. It is more intent. You can go low and not be aiming to blow up a guys knee. Players tackle low all the time without dive bombing.

[jvan1973]

I agree. It is more intent. You can go low and not be aiming to blow up a guys knee. Players tackle low all the time without dive bombing.

intent is impossible to determine.

[amfootball]

intent is impossible to determine.

No it isn't. He was aiming to take out his knee. You can tackle low without leading with the helmet at the knee. Plenty of guys tackling low all the time without doing it like he did.

 

You would be singing a different tune if it was TY.

[Yehoodi]

intent is impossible to determine.

 

don't be a foolish . . . you know the score . . . when, one the first play of the game, a player, with the arms by his side and coming from the front, leads with the crown of his helmet directed directly at the opponent's knee cap, not hirer not lower, we know what the intent of the action was . . . its pretty easier to figure out that it was a dirty play . . .

[Yehoodi]

intent is impossible to determine.

 

so that means all of the talk about the pats running up the score and Brees hording stats and comments about the colts running up the score is just a lot of hot air and mean nothing as we can not determine what their intent is?

 

So I take it I will never ever see this type of comment from you again?

[jvan1973]

so that means all of the talk about the pats running up the score and Brees hording stats and comments about the colts running up the score is just a lot of hot air and mean nothing as we can not determine what their intent is?

So I take it I will never ever see this type of comment from you again?

you've never seen those comments from me.

[jvan1973]

don't be a foolish . . . you know the score . . . when, one the first play of the game, a player, with the arms by his side and coming from the front, leads with the crown of his helmet directed directly at the opponent's knee cap, not hirer not lower, we know what the intent of the action was . . . its pretty easier to figure out that it was a dirty play . . .

I have never seen a play like that

[jvan1973]

No it isn't. He was aiming to take out his knee. You can tackle low without leading with the helmet at the knee. Plenty of guys tackling low all the time without doing it like he did.

You would be singing a different tune if it was TY.

why would any player go low on ty. He isn't running anyone over

[amfootball]

why would any player go low on ty. He isn't running anyone over

just juxtaposing. Like I said, going low is one thing. Most TEs are tackled that way. Dive bombing at the knee is entirely different especially when said player did it last year and ended the season for Gronk. Glad Gronk was smart enough to see him coming again and jumping up to avoid the same result.

[JerodMayo51]

Yeah, Ward was burned all day. So was Talib but he has been playing well all season for them. I do think Ward is overrated.

Nobody knew who Ward was until he blew Gronks knee out. He didn't even reach out to him or anything either, Ward is an overrated punk who was completely irrelevant until he took out an NFL superstar with a low hit

[jvan1973]

just juxtaposing. Like I said, going low is one thing. Most TEs are tackled that way. Dive bombing at the knee is entirely different especially when said player did it last year and ended the season for Gronk. Glad Gronk was smart enough to see him coming again and jumping up to avoid the same result.

or gronk could lower his pads. He runs very up right. He is going to get his knee taken out again. I don't think ward was fined last year. If the super protective NFL didn't find the hit dirty, why would anyone else

[amfootball]

or gronk could lower his pads. He runs very up right. He is going to get his knee taken out again. I don't think ward was fined last year. If the super protective NFL didn't find the hit dirty, why would anyone else

There are plenty of plays in the NFL that are legal but also dirty. Rodney Harrison was the king of such plays.

[JerodMayo51]

Going low isn't dirty, its football. Players get hit in the legs in every game every season

This wasn't just "football." Ward said before the game he wasnt sorry for what happened to Gronk and that he would hit him low again in the game.

Just watch the stinking replay, he has over 15 yards of field to close in and line his hit up on Gronk. From the line of scrimmage angle you can clearly see his eyes locked right in on Gronk's surgically repaired knee and at the last second he lowers his head to make the crown of his helmet be the initial contact point directly into his knee.

He deliberately aimed and used his helmet to take Gronks knee out, the same one he took out last year after telling everyone he wasn't sorry for it and that he was going to do it again.

Need more evidence that this guy is a total piece of garbage?

He gets up and celebrates his deliberate dirty hit even though it was a 15 yard completion for a 1st down.

Need more proof?

He's playing for the cleveland browns last year, a completely irrelevant team that nobody cared about. Then he takes out one of the NFLs biggest stars and most talented stars who just missed over a year of football from surgeries etc and he doesn't even have the decency to reach out and see how he's doing.

Nobody cared about TJ Ward or said his name until he injured Gronk, and he loves the attention he's getting and plays off of it like he's some bad *** when in reality he's just an average safety that tries to make a name for himself by hitting superstars controversially low and then acting all proud about it so that people say his name.

Anyone who defends that pile of trash is seriously disturbed. . I'm sure they'll see the light when that wannabe thug takes out one of their favorite star players though.

They will change the rules at some point to make the target zone between the shoulders and thighs.. it's horrible for the league to have big talent players get their knees chopped out from under them because these neanderthals don't know how to properly form tackle.

[Yehoodi]

you've never seen those comments from me.

 

fair enough . . .

[JerodMayo51]

or gronk could lower his pads. He runs very up right. He is going to get his knee taken out again. I don't think ward was fined last year. If the super protective NFL didn't find the hit dirty, why would anyone else

He's a defenseless receiver. He's running a route and looking at the ball to catch it, he can't lower his pads when a safety is lining a timed shot up on his knee as he's catching the ball.

Also anyone who's been watching the Pats games can clearly see that Gronk is making extra efforts to protect himself, which I love because it's going to extend his inevitable hall of fame career.

The reason the nfl hasn't cracked down on these low blows is because there was such an emphasis on protecting players heads.

A big guy like Gronk you can still hit around the thighs and wrap his legs up to bring him down. You don't go from 1 extreme of blows to the head that concuss players to the opposite extreme of using your helmet as a weapon into a guys knee.

It's not good for the league or the fans.

[GoPats]

All DBs are going to go for his legs, why would they go high and get trucked?

 

Just thought it was ironic for the same player to dive at the same knee. 

 

DBs don't tackle anymore. They just try to lay "hits." From a technique standpoint, the best way to bring down a guy bigger than you is to wrap up from the waist down and use your body weight to pull him down. It's not just Ward, it's the entire league now. 

 

I just think he's highly overrated. The "in the box" safety is becoming obsolete and Ward sucks in coverage.