Our Ring Of Honor Is Really Pretty Sad

[chad72]

I remember Marvin Harrison not making the top 100 players of all time on the NFL Network list while other WRs he did better than over his career did. He is one ROH guy that I would like to see in the HOF, it would be a shame if he is not. But that is a topic for another day.

[IndyTrav]

If Antonio Gates didn't play in the AFC, Clark would have 5 probowls instead of 1. The way Clark played was never focused on deep routes or a lot of yards. It was about moving the chains. Too many people have forgotten that and instead only look at the #'s or his production with Painter behind center.

So your saying if better players weren't playing the position Clark would be the best? Novel approach.

Look, I like Dallas, he's played well for us. But if you think a first round pick who only surpassed 1000yds once in his career is Ring of Honor worthy, then I don't know what to tell you. Dallas hasn't had any more impact on this team than Gary Brackett and he won't sniff RoH.

[BlueShoe]

I mean seriously, Jim Harbaugh? Chris Hinton? Bill Brooks. All nice players but it kind of speaks to how pathetic the Colts organization was in Indianapolis before Manning that all these decent players are in our ring of honor.

Dude,

Wow!

Chris Hinton was one of the best tackles in the 1980's. One of the best of all time. He went to seven Pro Bowls! And that was back when the right players actually went to the Pro Bowl.

Jim Harbaugh was just one hail mary away from taking us to the Super Bowl, which at the time was something no Colts fan really expected. Peyton has raised the expectations since then. Before then we were an up and down team from year to year (mostly down).

Bill Brooks was rookie of the year and had he played for another team his whole career would have been an NFL Super Star.

So, I totally disagree with you.

[Pombi]

So your saying if better players weren't playing the position Clark would be the best? Novel approach.

Look, I like Dallas, he's played well for us. But if you think a first round pick who only surpassed 1000yds once in his career is Ring of Honor worthy, then I don't know what to tell you. Dallas hasn't had any more impact on this team than Gary Brackett and he won't sniff RoH.

In 2008 the Colts placed the franchise tag on him which proved that the organization believed he was one of the best tight ends in the league or else they would not have paid him such a extensive amount. If you have the best position player in the league on your team, more then likely he will sniff the ROH.

On December 28, 2008, Clark broke the Colts' franchise record, held by Hall of Famer John Mackey, for yards in a season by a tight end (848.) On September 21, 2009, Clark had career high 183 receiving yards and a touchdown in just seven receptions at the Monday Night Football match up against Miami Dolphins, this is also the fourth highest receiving yards ever for a Tight End in NFL history. On January 3, 2010 against the Buffalo Bills, Clark caught his 100th reception of the season, the second tight end to do so in NFL history.

Clark was breaking impressive HOF and franchise records. And you say he wont sniff the ROH. Ha! what a joke... Clark will do more then "sniff" the ROH. Did you just recently become a Colts fan?

Hey John Mackey never had a 1000 Yard season as a TE and he is a HALL OF FAMER. Therefore by your logic he shouldn't be in the HOF or the ROH or even in the first round of the draft. That's pretty messed up logic.

[JSChicago]

I feel the ring of honor should reflect what these players have meant to the organization.

Not necessarily what they have done in the league.

Don't worry, the "ring" should improve in the near future.

Ok, so no liquored up kickers.

[Stephen Hinton]

Dude,

Wow!

Chris Hinton was one of the best tackles in the 1980's. One of the best of all time. He went to seven Pro Bowls! And that was back when the right players actually went to the Pro Bowl.

Jim Harbaugh was just one hail mary away from taking us to the Super Bowl, which at the time was something no Colts fan really expected. Peyton has raised the expectations since then. Before then we were an up and down team from year to year (mostly down).

Bill Brooks was rookie of the year and had he played for another team his whole career would have been an NFL Super Star.

So, I totally disagree with you.

[Stephen Hinton]

Good call Blue shoes! I will line up Chris Hinton's career stat up to any of the OL finalist. The hall should be all about stat and career accomplishment. If a person is a real fan, they would appreciate Hinton's accomplishments. He would be a shoe in if he was on a super owl team.

[LightninMax]

I'm sure that the Colts have been in Indy long enough for the fans to agree at this point, that a team "belongs" to a city as much as it does to an owner. It shouldn't be so easy for them to get up and go. If the Colts left Indy at this point I would be just as disturbed as I was when they left Baltimore.

I even feel a greater personal ownership everytime I pay for my dinner and my bar bill!

[ruksak]

He would be a shoe in if he was on a super owl team.

[IndyTrav]

In 2008 the Colts placed the franchise tag on him which proved that the organization believed he was one of the best tight ends in the league or else they would not have paid him such a extensive amount. If you have the best position player in the league on your team, more then likely he will sniff the ROH.

On December 28, 2008, Clark broke the Colts' franchise record, held by Hall of Famer John Mackey, for yards in a season by a tight end (848.) On September 21, 2009, Clark had career high 183 receiving yards and a touchdown in just seven receptions at the Monday Night Football match up against Miami Dolphins, this is also the fourth highest receiving yards ever for a Tight End in NFL history. On January 3, 2010 against the Buffalo Bills, Clark caught his 100th reception of the season, the second tight end to do so in NFL history.

Clark was breaking impressive HOF and franchise records. And you say he wont sniff the ROH. Ha! what a joke... Clark will do more then "sniff" the ROH. Did you just recently become a Colts fan?

Hey John Mackey never had a 1000 Yard season as a TE and he is a HALL OF FAMER. Therefore by your logic he shouldn't be in the HOF or the ROH or even in the first round of the draft. That's pretty messed up logic.

Are you REALLY trying to compare Mackey to Clark? Clarks one lone outstanding season does not equal RoH. One 100rec season (questionably gotten no less) and a quality MNF game against a bad Dolphins team are your reasons for him to be inducted?! If breaking records was the lone requirement, VanderShank would have been inducted the day his foot retired.

Comparing Mackey/Clark STATS its still no question. Mackey, playing in the 60-70s had it MUCH harder than Clark. BUT since you brought it up.

Mackey averaged 33rec-523yds-3.8 TDS in a 14 game season. Clark, 47-543-5tds...Mackey has 5 PBs/3 APs, Clark 1 each........So please don't ever try to compare the two again, because Clark can't hold a candle to what a REAL TE is.....

BTW, Olindo Mare, Phil Dawson, Mercedes Lewis, Jeff Reed are all players franchised in the last few years........

[Pombi]

Are you REALLY trying to compare Mackey to Clark? Clarks one lone outstanding season does not equal RoH. One 100rec season (questionably gotten no less) and a quality MNF game against a bad Dolphins team are your reasons for him to be inducted?! If breaking records was the lone requirement, VanderShank would have been inducted the day his foot retired.

Comparing Mackey/Clark STATS its still no question. Mackey, playing in the 60-70s had it MUCH harder than Clark. BUT since you brought it up.

Mackey averaged 33rec-523yds-3.8 TDS in a 14 game season. Clark, 47-543-5tds...Mackey has 5 PBs/3 APs, Clark 1 each........So please don't ever try to compare the two again, because Clark can't hold a candle to what a REAL TE is.....

BTW, Olindo Mare, Phil Dawson, Mercedes Lewis, Jeff Reed are all players franchised in the last few years........

Franchising a kicker is not close to the same amount of money as it costs to franchise a TE. That is just a horrible comparison and doesn't work. Also you tried to compare Vanderjadt's records to that of TE whom is breaking HOF records. Also a comparison that doesn't work and should not be made. All your argument consists of is kickers and it's silly. Also Mercedes Lewis didn't sign a contract to make him one of the highest paid TE"s in the league after that.

Also if Clark is breaking Mackeys records in Yardage, Touchdowns and receptions then they can be compared. Sorry just a fact.

[John Dee]

Honestly,,, why are Faulk, Dickerson, and Bickett not there?

These are legit HOF plaers....

[johnintn]

Honestly,,, why are Faulk, Dickerson, and Bickett not there?

These are legit HOF plaers....

Agreed.... ROH will get bigger in near future, I'm sure.

[wordofmouth]

I mean seriously, Jim Harbaugh? Chris Hinton? Bill Brooks. All nice players but it kind of speaks to how pathetic the Colts organization was in Indianapolis before Manning that all these decent players are in our ring of honor.

I find this post ironic being that the OP's sole purpose for joing the board was to bash Polian.

[IndyTrav]

Franchising a kicker is not close to the same amount of money as it costs to franchise a TE. That is just a horrible comparison and doesn't work. Also you tried to compare Vanderjadt's records to that of TE whom is breaking HOF records. Also a comparison that doesn't work and should not be made. All your argument consists of is kickers and it's silly. Also Mercedes Lewis didn't sign a contract to make him one of the highest paid TE"s in the league after that.

Also if Clark is breaking Mackeys records in Yardage, Touchdowns and receptions then they can be compared. Sorry just a fact.

You were the one who touted being franchised as a reason for inclusion into the RoH. It's not enough. Signing a big contract worth lots of money is not a reason to be inducted. Breaking Mackeys records is not enough to get inducted.....Dallas Clark will not be inducted.....it's as simple as that......if Clark goes in, then so does Addai, Brackett, Jackson, Hayden, Scott etc. all key players who had good years for the Colts who were just as important as Clark....this is after REAL RoH players get in Manning, Harrison,Wayne, James, Freeney, Mathis, Saturday, Dungy, Polian and possibly Glenn...That's TEN players from this 'run' and you think Clark would make it eleven? Not gonna happen.....

[Stephen Hinton]

are you related?

dancing bear was one of my favorite players back in the day. no-brainer best player indy ever had pre2000 era.

my dad and i used to go to the colts/bills game when he played. i HATED the way bruce smith would do his 'im comin to meet ya, elizabeth' fred sanford sackdance....it seemed like 3 times a game.

those were great days-- we had no idea about pro football-- but were so PROUD to have a team!

Yes, I am related...Chris is my brother. But it was a great experience. The first years of the Indy Colts. Indianapolis welcomed the Colts with open arms. Chris had a heck of a career going up against the likes of Bruce Smith two times a year. I remember one year, one of the sports writers wrote about an upcoming game against the Bills. And he said, the game all depended on how well Chris could handle Bruce Smith. Chris held Bruce to zero sacks and the Colts won. Chris was definately considered one of the premier left tackles in the league. Pro bowl 7 times. First OL to be named as a rookie. One of the few that was named to the pro bowl for three different positions. By the time Elway made it to the pro bowl, Chris had been there 3 or 4 times. Thanks Tfrugal for recognizing a great talent. Those were great times. I am still convinced Chris should be seriously considered for the HOF. If you look at the OL'men that are on the finalist list, Chris career is either comparable or better.

[GoColts8818]

Honestly,,, why are Faulk, Dickerson, and Bickett not there?

These are legit HOF plaers....

Faulk and Dickerson didn't leave on the best of terms of with the Colts and have not exactly embraced the Colts franchise since they left. Faulk would be just as happy if you forgot he played in Indy and Dickerson just never really embraced anywhere he went. As for Bickett that one I am not sure about other than he was a good player on a lot of bad teams and has become forgotten by a lot of fans.

[pac2]

Time to blame the current coaches for a bad Ring of Honor, right? It's got to be their fault.

Forget that Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Jeff Saturday, Gary Brackett, Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, and Peyton Manning will all be up there in a few years. Our current FO is so terrible, that they will single-handedly put more people in that Ring of Honor, and the Hall of Fame, than anyone previously tied to this organization.

Throw the "Edge" in there also.

[coltfaninnewyork]

If you take into consideration when they were in baltimore,i would like to see ted marchibroda up there.

[GoColts8818]

If you take into consideration when they were in baltimore,i would like to see ted marchibroda up there.

Grandpa Ted is up there.

[coltfaninnewyork]

Grandpa Ted is up there.

Did not know that,i am glad to hear that.

[GrizzColt]

I've always wondered why the NFL (and fans alike) only reference their history prior to the advent of the Super Bowl. The Baltimore Colts, was one of the great teams before the Super Bowl era. I believe they had 3 championships pre-Super Bowl. Post Super Bowl era, we have been 4 times and won 2 of them. That's a pretty nice history. Sure the city part is important, but the owners are the same and the Colts name is the same and the uniforms are almost even the same. You have the prima donnas like the Cowboys who are always bragging about their Super Bowls, but they had ZERO championships before the Super Bowl era.

[tfrugal]

Yes, I am related...Chris is my brother. But it was a great experience. The first years of the Indy Colts. Indianapolis welcomed the Colts with open arms. Chris had a heck of a career going up against the likes of Bruce Smith two times a year. I remember one year, one of the sports writers wrote about an upcoming game against the Bills. And he said, the game all depended on how well Chris could handle Bruce Smith. Chris held Bruce to zero sacks and the Colts won. Chris was definately considered one of the premier left tackles in the league. Pro bowl 7 times. First OL to be named as a rookie. One of the few that was named to the pro bowl for three different positions. By the time Elway made it to the pro bowl, Chris had been there 3 or 4 times. Thanks Tfrugal for recognizing a great talent. Those were great times. I am still convinced Chris should be seriously considered for the HOF. If you look at the OL'men that are on the finalist list, Chris career is either comparable or better.

hey, your preaching to the choir! i would say that you should make your quest a thread.....it deserves a space of its own.

[GoColts8818]

I've always wondered why the NFL (and fans alike) only reference their history prior to the advent of the Super Bowl. The Baltimore Colts, was one of the great teams before the Super Bowl era. I believe they had 3 championships pre-Super Bowl. Post Super Bowl era, we have been 4 times and won 2 of them. That's a pretty nice history. Sure the city part is important, but the owners are the same and the Colts name is the same and the uniforms are almost even the same. You have the prima donnas like the Cowboys who are always bragging about their Super Bowls, but they had ZERO championships before the Super Bowl era.

It's not the same ownership. Bob Irsay first bought the Rams and then traded franchises with the Colts owner at the time before moving them here.

With that said personally I embrace the whole history and the Colts do as well. Just because I wasn't a live for a good chunck of it doesn't mean I don't appericate it. Several of the old Baltimore Colts numbers are retired (notice there are no 19's or 82's handed out). With that said I think the Colts don't put them on the Ring of Honor because one a large number of those players probably don't want anything to do with it and didn't have their glory days in Indianapolis and frankly a large number of them would leave younger Colts fans going who is this guy? and two I don't think they wanted to rub it in Baltimore fans faces.

I think they view the Ring of Honor as just a purely Indianapolis thing as a way to recongnize those who ment a lot to franchise in that city. It's not a Hall of Fame or a retired number so it's not held to that standard which is why you see the guys you do up there. It's way to recongnize guys who ment a lot to your team who might not be good enough to get the other honors. Jim Harbaugh is a perfect example of this. Really he was the first the guy who made Colts football in Indianapolis truly exciting outside of one season in 1987. Yet there is no way he'll ever sniff the Hall of Fame as a player but most Colts fans that lived threw those two playoff seasons with him have a special place in their hearts for him. Frankly his mini run started the turn around here and Peyton picked up and Jimmy left off.

[Pombi]

You were the one who touted being franchised as a reason for inclusion into the RoH. It's not enough. Signing a big contract worth lots of money is not a reason to be inducted. Breaking Mackeys records is not enough to get inducted.....Dallas Clark will not be inducted.....it's as simple as that......if Clark goes in, then so does Addai, Brackett, Jackson, Hayden, Scott etc. all key players who had good years for the Colts who were just as important as Clark....this is after REAL RoH players get in Manning, Harrison,Wayne, James, Freeney, Mathis, Saturday, Dungy, Polian and possibly Glenn...That's TEN players from this 'run' and you think Clark would make it eleven? Not gonna happen.....

First of all I never said Franchising a player made them worthy of the ROH, I was simply listing Clark's accomplishments (you need to read more carefully I guess)

So if the probowl, HOF records, Franchise records, and some of the best Pure stats from a TE ever as well as a dedication to our franchise is not a qualification for the Ring of Honor. Would you like to tell me what you think Qualifies Robert Mathis and all those players you listed?

When a player on your franchise is shattering every record you have at that position, that is exactly what the RoH is for.

[Pombi]

You were the one who touted being franchised as a reason for inclusion into the RoH. It's not enough. Signing a big contract worth lots of money is not a reason to be inducted. Breaking Mackeys records is not enough to get inducted.....Dallas Clark will not be inducted.....it's as simple as that......if Clark goes in, then so does Addai, Brackett, Jackson, Hayden, Scott etc. all key players who had good years for the Colts who were just as important as Clark....this is after REAL RoH players get in Manning, Harrison,Wayne, James, Freeney, Mathis, Saturday, Dungy, Polian and possibly Glenn...That's TEN players from this 'run' and you think Clark would make it eleven? Not gonna happen.....

Seriously I NEVER said this. Your just quick reading what I say. Here lets look at what I wrote again....

"In 2008 the Colts placed the franchise tag on him which proved that the organization believed he was one of the best tight ends in the league or else they would not have paid him such a extensive amount."

Where in there Did I state that this was ROH worthy? I was simply listing this as an accomplishment. You need to read what I post before you go on the attack.

Under your list of ROH PLAYERS (your words not mine) You listed Tony Dungy and Bill Polian.

You don't actually watch football do you....

[dasani1888]

Be patient Marvin just got in Manning to come and will soon include Edge,Saturday,Freeney,Mathis,Reggie and Dungy not a bad set of names to add these are some of the all time greats

18 to 88 Forever

[GoColts8818]

Be patient Marvin just got in Manning to come and will soon include Edge,Saturday,Freeney,Mathis,Reggie and Dungy not a bad set of names to add these are some of the all time greats

18 to 88 Forever

Dungy's up there but you are right clearly and we recongize what in a lot of ways was a golden age of Colts football it's going to get better. Frankly if the Colts want to they can probably put up a name a year if they want for the 7 to 10 years.

[IndyTrav]

First of all I never said Franchising a player made them worthy of the ROH, I was simply listing Clark's accomplishments (you need to read more carefully I guess)

So if the probowl, HOF records, Franchise records, and some of the best Pure stats from a TE ever as well as a dedication to our franchise is not a qualification for the Ring of Honor. Would you like to tell me what you think Qualifies Robert Mathis and all those players you listed?

When a player on your franchise is shattering every record you have at that position, that is exactly what the RoH is for.

No, you didn't say it was the LONE factor in him making RoH, but it was A factor, to which I pointed it that it wasn't. Him making a ton of $, and being franchised 1 year does not go into consideration for him making RoH. Sorry.

Now, onto your list of Accomplishments:

ProBowl you say will get him up there? Ok. He has 1.

HoF records you say? He hasn't broken any.

Franchise Records? Most Rec. by a TE

Best Pure stats by a TE ever?!?!?! Are you serious with this garbage? Clark wasn't even the best white TE drafted in his class! Let alone "Best pure TE stats ever"....we won't even get into this discussion, b/c you are clearly confused.

Dedication to our franchise? The guys played 8 years.

What qualifies Manning, Harrison,Wayne, James, Freeney, Mathis, Saturday, Dungy, Polian as going in ahead of Clark? Seriously?

You don't think Manning, Harrison, Wayne, James, Freeney, Saturday, Dungy, Polian all dont belong BEFORE Dallas Clark?!?!??!

What puts Mathis above Clark? He's no lower than 2nd for all Franchise records in pass rushing stats. Sacks/PDs/FFs. Clark is no higher than forth, for any rec. category. He's got more PBs, and the fact that our RoH cant all be Offense.....

As for me putting Dungy/Polain on the RoH. You really think that I thought they were players?!?! I know your not that silly. Have you seen our RoH? You do know there are contributors up there right?

Look, I like Dallas, but he's a nobody. He played great for us, so did Chad Bratzke and Sean Dawkins.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Is Jim Mora in the Ring of Honor?

[GoColts8818]

No, you didn't say it was the LONE factor in him making RoH, but it was A factor, to which I pointed it that it wasn't. Him making a ton of $, and being franchised 1 year does not go into consideration for him making RoH. Sorry.

Now, onto your list of Accomplishments:

ProBowl you say will get him up there? Ok. He has 1.

HoF records you say? He hasn't broken any.

Franchise Records? Most Rec. by a TE

Best Pure stats by a TE ever?!?!?! Are you serious with this garbage? Clark wasn't even the best white TE drafted in his class! Let alone "Best pure TE stats ever"....we won't even get into this discussion, b/c you are clearly confused.

Dedication to our franchise? The guys played 8 years.

What qualifies Manning, Harrison,Wayne, James, Freeney, Mathis, Saturday, Dungy, Polian as going in ahead of Clark? Seriously?

You don't think Manning, Harrison, Wayne, James, Freeney, Saturday, Dungy, Polian all dont belong BEFORE Dallas Clark?!?!??!

What puts Mathis above Clark? He's no lower than 2nd for all Franchise records in pass rushing stats. Sacks/PDs/FFs. Clark is no higher than forth, for any rec. category. He's got more PBs, and the fact that our RoH cant all be Offense.....

As for me putting Dungy/Polain on the RoH. You really think that I thought they were players?!?! I know your not that silly. Have you seen our RoH? You do know there are contributors up there right?

Look, I like Dallas, but he's a nobody. He played great for us, so did Chad Bratzke and Sean Dawkins.

Bill Brooks is in the Ring of Honor if you were just arguing looking at their career's alone that Bill Brooks should be up there over Dallas Clark based on the things Dallas Clark has done already?

I am not saying Dallas Clark is a lock to go up there but the Ring of Honor is a "feel good" thing to let the fans relive the old glory days not a Hall of Fame. I can see how after 5 to 10 years from now if the Colts want to let us relive those days they let any of the fan favorites come back and go in the Ring of Honor. Frankly it probably depends on how the player leaves here and how Jim Irsay feels about them if they go up or not because our two legit Hall of Famers aren't up there and probably wont be up there because they don't have good relationships with Jim Irsay and one would be just as happy if you forgot he was a Colt in Marshal Faulk.

[IndyTrav]

Bill Brooks is in the Ring of Honor if you were just arguing looking at their career's alone that Bill Brooks should be up there over Dallas Clark based on the things Dallas Clark has done already?

I am not saying Dallas Clark is a lock to go up there but the Ring of Honor is a "feel good" thing to let the fans relive the old glory days not a Hall of Fame. I can see how after 5 to 10 years from now if the Colts want to let us relive those days they let any of the fan favorites come back and go in the Ring of Honor. Frankly it probably depends on how the player leaves here and how Jim Irsay feels about them if they go up or not because our two legit Hall of Famers aren't up there and probably wont be up there because they don't have good relationships with Jim Irsay and one would be just as happy if you forgot he was a Colt in Marshal Faulk.

Brooks is up there because he was 2nd all time in Colts Rec behind Raymond Berry, 4th in yards and to be honest, he was probably the first 'good' player for the INDIANAPOLIS Colts, and set franchise marks for the INDIANAPOLIS Colts, which I think was a factor in the decision. He was the first 'good' player for a recently moved team, Indys first football star, if you will.

Then after he was done here, he went to Buffalo, hired by a guy named Bill Polian.............Then a little later, he became Executive Director of Administration for the Colts.....

So in summary, I think Brooks basically made it up there because he was the best of a sorry bunch, and had/has an excellent relationship with the FO.

As for Faulk/Dickerson, they wont ever make it up there, and they shouldn't.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Talk about the ROH in 6 years, it won't be pretty sad then.

This is spot on. I am more concerned with superbowl banners!Pittsburgh doesn't need a ring of honor, the 6 RINGS, PROVIDE PLENTY OF HONOR.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Is Jim Mora in the Ring of Honor?

Ring of honor,ring of honor! Don't talk to me about the ring of honor. I just want to coach again!!

[GoColts8818]

Brooks is up there because he was 2nd all time in Colts Rec behind Raymond Berry, 4th in yards and to be honest, he was probably the first 'good' player for the INDIANAPOLIS Colts, and set franchise marks for the INDIANAPOLIS Colts, which I think was a factor in the decision. He was the first 'good' player for a recently moved team, Indys first football star, if you will.

Then after he was done here, he went to Buffalo, hired by a guy named Bill Polian.............Then a little later, he became Executive Director of Administration for the Colts.....

So in summary, I think Brooks basically made it up there because he was the best of a sorry bunch, and had/has an excellent relationship with the FO.

As for Faulk/Dickerson, they wont ever make it up there, and they shouldn't.

I think you could say the same about Dallas Clark I think he has caught John Mackey or is very close to him on several club records for a tighends and even has a chance to surpass Brooks on several of his numbers if he plays long enough.

I am not asking you why Brooks made up there. I am asking you if we are going to look at their career numbers if Bill Brooks is up there is it really that unrealistic to think that one can make a case for Dallas Clark?

Like I said I am not saying he's a lock to go up there. I wouldn't be surprised either way with Dallas Clark.

[IndyTrav]

We got 8 guys up there I do believe.

Irsay-Owner

Marchibroda- Coach

Dungy- Coach

Harbaugh-QB

Brooks-WR

Hinton-T

Harrison-WR

12th Man- Random

So we have 4 Offense guys, 0 defense, 2 coaches, and an Owner.

Now add Manning, James, Wayne, Saturday. Thats an easy 4.

Now Freeney. 1 Def. guy.

Now Polian. 1 FO Guy.

So for 25+ years we've had roughly 6 guys....and in a 10 year run we are going to more than double that??!?!? I don't think so.

Let alone our RoH being lopsided with 8 offensive guys to 1 Defensive.

[IndyTrav]

I think you could say the same about Dallas Clark I think he has caught John Mackey or is very close to him on several club records for a tighends and even has a chance to surpass Brooks on several of his numbers if he plays long enough.

I am not asking you why Brooks made up there. I am asking you if we are going to look at their career numbers if Bill Brooks is up there is it really that unrealistic to think that one can make a case for Dallas Clark?

Like I said I am not saying he's a lock to go up there. I wouldn't be surprised either way with Dallas Clark.

I've actually been over this earlier in the thread........

......"Comparing Mackey/Clark STATS its still no question. Mackey, playing in the 60-70s had it MUCH harder than Clark. BUT since you brought it up.

Mackey averaged 33rec-523yds-3.8 TDS in a 14 game season. Clark, 47-543-5tds...Mackey has 5 PBs/3 APs, Clark 1 each........So please don't ever try to compare the two again, because Clark can't hold a candle to what a REAL TE is....."

Now figure Mackey was thrown to by over 5+ different QBs.....Clark has had Manning...... the list goes on and on and on.

[GoColts8818]

I've actually been over this earlier in the thread........

......"Comparing Mackey/Clark STATS its still no question. Mackey, playing in the 60-70s had it MUCH harder than Clark. BUT since you brought it up.

Mackey averaged 33rec-523yds-3.8 TDS in a 14 game season. Clark, 47-543-5tds...Mackey has 5 PBs/3 APs, Clark 1 each........So please don't ever try to compare the two again, because Clark can't hold a candle to what a REAL TE is....."

Now figure Mackey was thrown to by over 5+ different QBs.....Clark has had Manning...... the list goes on and on and on.

First of all I am going to ask you again what I asked you and you didn't answer. Is it unrealistic to think that you can make a place for Dallas Clark to join a Ring of Honor that includes Bill Brooks?

Now on to the rest. What I was trying to compare was not so much Dallas to Mackey (Although I can if I choose too that's not your place to ask me not too just because you don't think they should be). I was comparing where you said Bill Brooks is up there because at the time he was second all-time to Raymond Berry on the receptions list. Even though at the time Brooks went up he was not Marvin had already surpassed him. However that's besides the point. I was saying so if Brooks is up there because during his playing career he was second to another great player then if Dallas ends up second to a great player why is it an automatic no? Dallas HAS already surpassed severl of Mackey's marks for a career (although it is very hard to compare a modern tightend to a tightend of Mackey's day) and may end up surpassing Bill Brooks numbers a player who is in the ring of honor. Just looking at Dallas's numbers alone depending on how he finishes his career I think one can make a case for him joining the Ring of Honor. If you don't agree with that case then fine you don't have too.

Like I said I could see it going either way on Dallas. I don't think he's a lock like Manning is but I don't think he's just an automatic no either. Several things will impact what happens with Dallas starting with how he ends his career. He may even be impacted by how others leave the franchise. It seems like if a guy leaves on bad terms and doesn't embrace the Colts after he leaves you don't wind up there. I have little doubt about that will be an issue with Clark but a guy like Reggie might not have such a good parting with the team for example. He could end up like a Faulk or Dickerson who have the numbers to be up there but aren't up there for personal reasons. If that happens and in say 10 years the team is struggling and people are wanting to relive our glory days I could easily see them reaching out to someone like Dallas. Like I said the Ring of Honor is more or less a feel good moment for the fans to see older players and people they loved. It's not a Hall of Fame and it's not a retired jersey. If anything it's a way to honor guys who have been important to your franchise but don't deserve the other recongnition.

[IndyTrav]

First of all I am going to ask you again what I asked you and you didn't answer. Is it unrealistic to think that you can make a place for Dallas Clark to join a Ring of Honor that includes Bill Brooks?

Now on to the rest. What I was trying to compare was not so much Dallas to Mackey (Although I can if I choose too that's not your place to ask me not too just because you don't think they should be). I was comparing where you said Bill Brooks is up there because at the time he was second all-time to Raymond Berry on the receptions list. Even though at the time Brooks went up he was not Marvin had already surpassed him. However that's besides the point. I was saying so if Brooks is up there because during his playing career he was second to another great player then if Dallas ends up second to a great player why is it an automatic no? Dallas HAS already surpassed severl of Mackey's marks for a career (although it is very hard to compare a modern tightend to a tightend of Mackey's day) and may end up surpassing Bill Brooks numbers a player who is in the ring of honor. Just looking at Dallas's numbers alone depending on how he finishes his career I think one can make a case for him joining the Ring of Honor. If you don't agree with that case then fine you don't have too.

Like I said I could see it going either way on Dallas. I don't think he's a lock like Manning is but I don't think he's just an automatic no either. Several things will impact what happens with Dallas starting with how he ends his career. He may even be impacted by how others leave the franchise. It seems like if a guy leaves on bad terms and doesn't embrace the Colts after he leaves you don't wind up there. I have little doubt about that will be an issue with Clark but a guy like Reggie might not have such a good parting with the team for example. He could end up like a Faulk or Dickerson who have the numbers to be up there but aren't up there for personal reasons. If that happens and in say 10 years the team is struggling and people are wanting to relive our glory days I could easily see them reaching out to someone like Dallas. Like I said the Ring of Honor is more or less a feel good moment for the fans to see older players and people they loved. It's not a Hall of Fame and it's not a retired jersey. If anything it's a way to honor guys who have been important to your franchise but don't deserve the other recongnition.

You're right, I mis-read Brooks, as Mackey. I had Mackey on the brain. And I wasn't asking YOU not to compare, I just copy and pasted what I was saying to another person....Now...Onto the Brooks discussion.....

Why is there room for Brooks, but not Clark is your question? Correct?

B/c as I said earlier, at the time of his departure from the Colts he was #2 to #4 in all Colts Rec. categories, BUT he was the #1 in Indy (all other rec records were from Balt.) Not only that, but Brooks was the LONE option, where as Clark, at best has only ever been the forth option. Brooks caught passes from the who's who of garbage QBs etc. While I agree that Brooks is by no means a high caliber player, I just think he was the best of a sorry bunch... I look at it like he was the fastest kid in school, he ran a 8.5 forty, yea he is the fastest in this school, and it should be commended, but thats only a good time here, not everywhere else...Sorry for the bad analogy.

I like Dallas, but he has literally had everything 'go his way'. He's had a great QB, and Off his entire career, in the Passing Revolution Decade, and he still isn't really THAT close to achieving anything near what those guys did statistically, which isn't the end all be all, but it is something to consider.

Now I can understand 100% where you are coming from when you say its a 'feel good moment' and it could be about fan revival etc. But that brings me to the RoH itself. Like I had mentioned earlier, I couldn't imagine seeing 10+offensive guys up there, and one defensive, I dont think thats an accurate representation of the franchise. How could you quantify Dallas being a member( the 10th/11th offensive member), while leaving off Brackett, or Sanders, who in essence were just as crucial/important/fan favorites as what Dallas was? Esp once you consider that of those 10/11 off member, over 6 of them played together. At that point we should rename the RoH the 2004 Colts Offensive starters.......

Again, sorry about mis-reading your previous posts. I read Bill Brooks clearly, but was thinking Mackey.

[husker61]

As a Colts fan since well before 1984 it is disturbing that the previous greats are left to Baltimore. I would actually prefer that the complete history had been brought forward and honored appropriately, or that the complete history had been left in Baltimore, with Indy treated as a new entity (like happened with the Browns/Ravens). This disjointed result we have now - where so many fans can't forget the past, but the team itself would seem to prefer to pretend that it never existed - is disturbing. All Colts fans should be proud of Johnny Unitas and all the rest. The Colts ring of honor should be the envy of the league.

i completely agree!