Indianapolis Colts will continue to use "interchangeable safety" on defense

[TKnight24]

@HolderStephen: Here's Chuck Pagano on plans to continue interchanging strong/free safety despite loss of Antoine Bethea #Colts

Link: http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/08/12/colts-pagano-keeps-options-open-second-starting-safety-spot/13958117/

I'm NOT a fan of this at all . Laron Landry is not a FS at all, he's basically a LB and should be at SS at all times.

He's a liability in coverage and all football fans know (least I hope so) that the FS usually is your cover safety. This was one of the many problems we had on defense, trying to make people something they aren't. Landry is a SS, nothing more, nothing less.

Really hope the stubborn ways of Pagano & Manusky don't cost us this year. If they see it's not working, really hope they cut it off immediately

[Bluefire4]

Superman.. can you please explain the safety roles on our defense please.. I think he said something to the tune of the SS covers the tight ends and slot receivers and the FS covers the back end. I'd rather have Landry covering deep than covering a tight end or slot receiver head on.

[TKnight24]

Superman.. can you please explain the safety roles on our defense please.. I think he said something to the tune of the SS covers the tight ends and slot receivers and the FS covers the back end. I'd rather have Landry covering deep than covering a tight end or slot receiver head on.

I'd rather not have Landry and the word "Covering" in the same sentence

[Derakynn]

Not sure who you think we have that has proven to be much better covering than Landry. Adams maybe. And let's not pretend Bethea was any better last year either. 

[Bravo]

Really our safties just shouldn't be covering anyone....

Let's just sign a bunch of good tackling cornerbacks and throw them back there as our safeties.

Bravo just kidding.......possibly

[HtownColt]

Landry has the most range out of all our safeties, that's why he is the lone deep safety most of the time

[TKnight24]

Landry has the most range out of all our safeties, that's why he is the lone deep safety most of the time

Yeah, he has the speed and instincts. Just lacks the ball skills

And the fundamental tackling

[Superman]

Superman.. can you please explain the safety roles on our defense please.. I think he said something to the tune of the SS covers the tight ends and slot receivers and the FS covers the back end. I'd rather have Landry covering deep than covering a tight end or slot receiver head on.

 

LOL, again???

 

The headline should probably read "Colts will continue to pay lip service to the idea of interchangeable safeties in order to avoid tipping their hand." That's kind of a long headline, though.

 

We really don't use our safeties interchangeably. I haven't charted this, maybe I will this year, but the Colts typically use their SS in man coverage against TEs and slot receivers, and to support the run. They will drop him into the box or to the nickel slot, and go with a single high safety look. That leaves the FS responsible for the back end.

 

Landry is far better suited to be the single high guy, since he has excellent range and make-up speed. He can also be good in the box against the run, if he takes the proper angles and doesn't miss tackles (but he sometimes takes bad angles and misses tackles, so...) There's no reason anyone should want to see Landry as the SS, since he isn't good in man coverage and would get taken apart by slot receivers and good TEs. He also can't shed blocks worth a damn, so putting him in the box and letting the offense account for him on run downs with a TE or a FB is kind of pointless.

 

What the Colts mean -- IMO -- when they say they use the safeties "interchangeably" is that they'll use both safeties in the box or up top, depending on the playcall and the situation. But typically, they don't use Landry in man coverage in the box. Nor should they.

[Jiggy]

@HolderStephen: Here's Chuck Pagano on plans to continue interchanging strong/free safety despite loss of Antoine Bethea #Colts

Link: http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/08/12/colts-pagano-keeps-options-open-second-starting-safety-spot/13958117/

I'm NOT a fan of this at all . Laron Landry is not a FS at all, he's basically a LB and should be at SS at all times.

He's a liability in coverage and all football fans know (least I hope so) that the FS usually is your cover safety. This was one of the many problems we had on defense, trying to make people something they aren't. Landry is a SS, nothing more, nothing less.

Really hope the stubborn ways of Pagano & Manusky don't cost us this year. If they see it's not working, really hope they cut it off immediately

The colts scheme doesnt even use a FS/SS  by that respective definition...

[NewColtsFan]

LOL, again???

 

The headline should probably read "Colts will continue to pay lip service to the idea of interchangeable safeties in order to avoid tipping their hand." That's kind of a long headline, though.

 

We really don't use our safeties interchangeably. I haven't charted this, maybe I will this year, but the Colts typically use their SS in man coverage against TEs and slot receivers, and to support the run. They will drop him into the box or to the nickel slot, and go with a single high safety look. That leaves the FS responsible for the back end.

 

Landry is far better suited to be the single high guy, since he has excellent range and make-up speed. He can also be good in the box against the run, if he takes the proper angles and doesn't miss tackles (but he sometimes takes bad angles and misses tackles, so...) There's no reason anyone should want to see Landry as the SS, since he isn't good in man coverage and would get taken apart by slot receivers and good TEs. He also can't shed blocks worth a damn, so putting him in the box and letting the offense account for him on run downs with a TE or a FB is kind of pointless.

 

What the Colts mean -- IMO -- when they say they use the safeties "interchangeably" is that they'll use both safeties in the box or up top, depending on the playcall and the situation. But typically, they don't use Landry in man coverage in the box. Nor should they.

 

Thanks for this....

 

And it goes back to what I've posted several times....

 

Landry remains one of my least favorite signings in the Grigson era....

 

I look forward to the drafts in '15 and '16 so we can move on and upgrade the safety position....

[TKnight24]

Thanks for this....

And it goes back to what I've posted several times....

Landry remains one of my least favorite signings in the Grigson era....

I look forward to the drafts in '15 and '16 so we can move on and upgrade the safety position....

Da'Rick Rogers and a happy meal for Clinton-Dix in a straight up trade coming soon

#BookIt

[crazycolt1]

@HolderStephen: Here's Chuck Pagano on plans to continue interchanging strong/free safety despite loss of Antoine Bethea #Colts

Link: http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/08/12/colts-pagano-keeps-options-open-second-starting-safety-spot/13958117/

I'm NOT a fan of this at all . Laron Landry is not a FS at all, he's basically a LB and should be at SS at all times.

He's a liability in coverage and all football fans know (least I hope so) that the FS usually is your cover safety. This was one of the many problems we had on defense, trying to make people something they aren't. Landry is a SS, nothing more, nothing less.

Really hope the stubborn ways of Pagano & Manusky don't cost us this year. If they see it's not working, really hope they cut it off immediately

Maybe you should take a closer look at what the Colts defense does. As far as what you say is stubborn ways I don't see it IMO. I think you are confusing stubborn with the lack of playmakers at the key positions. I just don't get all the negative comments from you in regards to Pagano. As far as Manusky last season was his first year to try to start the 3-4 hybrid defense and you expect immediate results? The Colts have come along way since a 2-14 record and it takes time. I could be wrong but I think there is only 5 players left on the team that was here 3 years ago and two of them are kickers. Is it possible for you to look at the bigger picture rather than being so critical.

[TKnight24]

Maybe you should take a closer look at what the Colts defense does. As far as what you say is stubborn ways I don't see it IMO. I think you are confusing stubborn with the lack of playmakers at the key positions. I just don't get all the negative comments from you in regards to Pagano. As far as Manusky last season was his first year to try to start the 3-4 hybrid defense and you expect immediate results? The Colts have come along way since a 2-14 record and it takes time. I could be wrong but I think there is only 5 players left on the team that was here 3 years ago and two of them are kickers. Is it possible for you to look at the bigger picture rather than being so critical.

2nd year in the 3-4 defense last season, 3rd year this season.

And while you view it as criticised tactics, it's stating facts. As everyone pointed out, yes Landry is the fastest and most ranged privileged S on the roster but his ball skills leave a lot to be desired

I was ecstatic when we signed him coming off his pro bowl year, but was disappointed with his play. But then I think how Manusky is no Guru like Rex Ryan is when it comes to defense. Expecting much improvement from Mr. Landry this year but we'll see if the expectations are met

[TKnight24]

LOL, again???

The headline should probably read "Colts will continue to pay lip service to the idea of interchangeable safeties in order to avoid tipping their hand." That's kind of a long headline, though.

We really don't use our safeties interchangeably. I haven't charted this, maybe I will this year, but the Colts typically use their SS in man coverage against TEs and slot receivers, and to support the run. They will drop him into the box or to the nickel slot, and go with a single high safety look. That leaves the FS responsible for the back end.

Landry is far better suited to be the single high guy, since he has excellent range and make-up speed. He can also be good in the box against the run, if he takes the proper angles and doesn't miss tackles (but he sometimes takes bad angles and misses tackles, so...) There's no reason anyone should want to see Landry as the SS, since he isn't good in man coverage and would get taken apart by slot receivers and good TEs. He also can't shed blocks worth a damn, so putting him in the box and letting the offense account for him on run downs with a TE or a FB is kind of pointless.

What the Colts mean -- IMO -- when they say they use the safeties "interchangeably" is that they'll use both safeties in the box or up top, depending on the playcall and the situation. But typically, they don't use Landry in man coverage in the box. Nor should they.

....... Why is our defense flipped? I'd still rather have Landry on a TE than in the back end IMO. He's big enough and fast enough to cover 98% of the TE's in the NFL (2% being Graham & Davis)

But guess you do learn something new everyday. *Writes in notepad that Colts do things backwards*

[HtownColt]

....... Why is our defense flipped? I'd still rather have Landry on a TE than in the back end IMO. He's big enough and fast enough to cover 98% of the TE's in the NFL (2% being Graham & Davis)

But guess you do learn something new everyday. *Writes in notepad that Colts do things backwards*

No you don't

[Gavin]

Meh Im over it, Im just gonna watch and enjoy the season, Personally I'd give Ed Reed a call if Grigson hasn't already just to kick the tires on him and sign him to a 1 year deal if healthy. (word is he wants to play 1 more year), It may not work out but I don't think he was healthy last year, We have the money for a 1 year deal, I know we would be hoping he still has one year left in him but personally I'd take that over going Cover 1 with Landry or Howell, Low risk/high reward if he is healthy actually

[BlueShoe]

@HolderStephen: Here's Chuck Pagano on plans to continue interchanging strong/free safety despite loss of Antoine Bethea #Colts

Link: http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/08/12/colts-pagano-keeps-options-open-second-starting-safety-spot/13958117/

I'm NOT a fan of this at all . Laron Landry is not a FS at all, he's basically a LB and should be at SS at all times.

He's a liability in coverage and all football fans know (least I hope so) that the FS usually is your cover safety. This was one of the many problems we had on defense, trying to make people something they aren't. Landry is a SS, nothing more, nothing less.

Really hope the stubborn ways of Pagano & Manusky don't cost us this year. If they see it's not working, really hope they cut it off immediately

 

What is there not to be a fan of?

 

I would rather see Landry at free safety. Keep him single high so he can see the entire field and use his speed to make plays.

 

If an opposing offensive player slips by and breaks open then it might look like Landry's fault, but it won't be. I like knowing that our fastest player on defense is playing the closest to the end zone. He will be in position to catch them, and he will because he will have the angles due to having the opportunity to see it coming. 

[Bravo]

Da'Rick Rogers and a happy meal for Clinton-Dix in a straight up trade coming soon

#BookIt

I think they will have a higher asking price..

I heard that Burger Kings Chicken fries are back

[TKnight24]

I think they will have a higher asking price..

I heard that Burger Kings Chicken fries are back

Colts Trade:

1. Da'Rick Rogers

2. Burger King Chicken Fries

3. 5 flavors of choice of Sonic milkshakes

4. $100 bill from Jim Irsay

Colts Receive:

1. Clinton-Dix

[TKnight24]

No you don't

You don't learn something new everyday?

Must be the Texas heat getting to you man

[HtownColt]

You don't learn something new everyday?

Must be the Texas heat getting to you man

It is hot down here, but I was talking about the Landry part lol

[Superman]

Meh Im over it, Im just gonna watch and enjoy the season, Personally I'd give Ed Reed a call if Grigson hasn't already just to kick the tires on him and sign him to a 1 year deal if healthy. (word is he wants to play 1 more year), It may not work out but I don't think he was healthy last year, We have the money for a 1 year deal, I know we would be hoping he still has one year left in him but personally I'd take that over going Cover 1 with Landry or Howell, Low risk/high reward if he is healthy actually

 

Dude, really?

 

Dinosaurs have been extinct for a long, long time. 

[TKnight24]

Meh Im over it, Im just gonna watch and enjoy the season, Personally I'd give Ed Reed a call if Grigson hasn't already just to kick the tires on him and sign him to a 1 year deal if healthy. (word is he wants to play 1 more year), It may not work out but I don't think he was healthy last year, We have the money for a 1 year deal, I know we would be hoping he still has one year left in him but personally I'd take that over going Cover 1 with Landry or Howell, Low risk/high reward if he is healthy actually

Yeah, guess you're right there. I just think Howell has slightly better ball skills (small sample from Howell I know) than Landry showed all season.

I'd rather have him play the center fielder than Landry. Much rather have Landry on blitzes and covering RB's out the backfield. Dude can fly, just can't find the ball and also is boom or bust with his tackling

[TKnight24]

It is hot down here, but I was talking about the Landry part lol

Ohh

You don't think Landry can at least cover our division TE's? Like..... *tries to think of a division TE*

Mercedes Lewis? (Is he still in Jax? )

Delanie Walker in Tennessee?

Or any Texans TE?

[Gavin]

Dude, really?

 

Dinosaurs have been extinct for a long, long time. 

That dinosaur was still a playmaker in starts though last year when he joined the Jets, His pedigree is worth at least bringing him in

[TKnight24]

That dinosaur was still a playmaker in starts though, His pedigree is worth at least bringing him in

I'd take him as a mentor. Kinda like Hasselbeck is to Andrew at times. That'd be a good deal. 1 year mentor deal for vet minimum

[Bravo]

Colts Trade:

1. Da'Rick Rogers

2. Burger King Chicken Fries

3. 5 flavors of choice of Sonic milkshakes

4. $100 bill from Jim Irsay

Colts Receive:

1. Clinton-Dix

Deal will happen soon!

[Jiggy]

....... Why is our defense flipped? I'd still rather have Landry on a TE than in the back end IMO. He's big enough and fast enough to cover 98% of the TE's in the NFL (2% being Graham & Davis)

But guess you do learn something new everyday. *Writes in notepad that Colts do things backwards*

are safety roles are very similar.... again no one is a pure fs/ss the roles are interchangeable

 

youre getting all caught up in labels that have no meaning in our scheme when it comes to that position. both safeties play the run and step down into the box, and both will play the pass and drop back or play man. 

[Bravo]

I do think Howell has better ball skills and is able to stay on a reciever better but he has some large durability issues, almost worse than Laron has had. Can't count on any of them yet!

The Colts will be using 4 safeties this year, maybe 5.

Laron

Howell

Adams

Brown

McDonald

[Superman]

....... Why is our defense flipped? I'd still rather have Landry on a TE than in the back end IMO. He's big enough and fast enough to cover 98% of the TE's in the NFL (2% being Graham & Davis)

But guess you do learn something new everyday. *Writes in notepad that Colts do things backwards*

 

It's not flipped. We blitz, quite a bit, and we use our ILBs in underneath zone coverage. If you have a safety who can play man coverage on TEs and slot receivers, then you have more freedom with all your LBs and can disguise your pressures a little better. So if you're going to use that safety in man coverage, why wouldn't you deploy him in a position where he can actually cover the players he's being asked to cover? You want that safety lined up over TEs and slot receivers, otherwise he's 15 yards back and can't defend his man.

 

You should let go of the traditional labels of FS and SS and what you've been forced to learn about them. "The FS is best in coverage, and the SS roams the box." That can be true, but that's not important for our defense.

 

Also, you're crazy if you think you want Landry trying to cover TEs in the box. He'd have to face Delanie Walker twice, we play Julius Thomas, Rob Gronkowski, Brent Celek and Zach Ertz, Jason Witten, Jordan Reed, Jordan Cameron, Tyler Eifert, etc., this season. Yes, Landry is fast enough to run with all of them, but running doesn't equal covering. The basis for your objection is that Landry isn't a good cover man, but you want to man him up against some of the best TEs in the league? And for what, to appease this outdated idea of what the FS and SS should be?

 

Landry is fine on the back end. Certainly better than he'd be in man coverage against TEs and slot receivers.

[TKnight24]

are safety roles are very similar.... again no one is a pure fs/ss the roles are interchangeable

Yeah, just did some research (hardly did any ) on the colts app. Video of Pagano saying that our depth chart when it comes to S means nothing cause they'll flip sides.

"Doesn't matter who's next to Landry"

So with Landry being a lock to start barring injury, who'd be best suited to play both SS & FS our defense

I think it'd be the vet Mike Adams but with Howell surely looking to prove himself and having more experience in our defense, he should have the slight edge. But currently he's battling a neck injury so can we trust him to be healthy?

I don't expect Sergio Brown to be in the mix, he'll just continue being the ace special teamer that he is imo

[Gavin]

I'd take him as a mentor. Kinda like Hasselbeck is to Andrew at times. That'd be a good deal. 1 year mentor deal for vet minimum

I don't know what vet minimum is, I'd offer 3 mill...No higher then 4 mill

[TKnight24]

It's not flipped. We blitz, quite a bit, and we use our ILBs in underneath zone coverage. If you have a safety who can play man coverage on TEs and slot receivers, then you have more freedom with all your LBs and can disguise your pressures a little better. So if you're going to use that safety in man coverage, why wouldn't you deploy him in a position where he can actually cover the players he's being asked to cover? You want that safety lined up over TEs and slot receivers, otherwise he's 15 yards back and can't defend his man.

You should let go of the traditional labels of FS and SS and what you've been forced to learn about them. "The FS is best in coverage, and the SS roams the box." That can be true, but that's not important for our defense.

Also, you're crazy if you think you want Landry trying to cover TEs in the box. He'd have to face Delanie Walker twice, we play Julius Thomas, Rob Gronkowski, Brent Celek and Zach Ertz, Jason Witten, Jordan Reed, Jordan Cameron, Tyler Eifert, etc., this season. Yes, Landry is fast enough to run with all of them, but running doesn't equal covering. The basis for your objection is that Landry isn't a good cover man, but you want to man him up against some of the best TEs in the league? And for what, to appease this outdated idea of what the FS and SS should be?

Landry is fine on the back end. Certainly better than he'd be in man coverage against TEs and slot receivers.

I don't want him covering deep, I don't mind him covering 5-10 yards with a TE or RB. Deep is where he's suspect at.

And we're not playing Gronk this season, he'll be injured by the time we get to NE. Dudes made of glass seems like

Far as Graham, I don't see any of our LB's (Maybe Freeman but even then that's questionable) covering Graham so we might have to use a safety or CB

[TKnight24]

I don't know what vet minimum is, I'd offer 3 mill...No higher then 4 mill

I was thinking a $2mill deal and ppay the first 3months of his retirement home plan but yeah $3mill works

[Andrew Luck's Beard]

Colts Trade:

1. Da'Rick Rogers

2. Burger King Chicken Fries

3. 5 flavors of choice of Sonic milkshakes

4. $100 bill from Jim Irsay

Colts Receive:

1. Clinton-Dix

Hmmm... Do we have to sign the chicken fries first?

[TKnight24]

And thank you all for explaining our safety situation. I'll let go off the traditional roles of the SS & FS

Shall also take these lessons learned here tonight and use them in Madden.

[Superman]

That dinosaur was still a playmaker in starts though last year when he joined the Jets, His pedigree is worth at least bringing him in

 

He barely played in half his team's snaps last year, 300 fewer than Landry did. He had three picks. I'm not sure that qualifies as a playmaker. He's 37 years old next month. He'd be better as a secondary coach than as a player. Time to let Ed Reed rest peacefully.

[TKnight24]

Hmmm... Do we have to sign the chicken fries first?

I think Josh Chapman can work something out to where we can do that under the table.

Heard he's the man to talk to when you wanna get your hands on the tasty things without drawing much attention

[BlueShoe]

He barely played in half his team's snaps last year, 300 fewer than Landry did. He had three picks. I'm not sure that qualifies as a playmaker. He's 37 years old next month. He'd be better as a secondary coach than as a player. Time to let Ed Reed rest peacefully.

 

Agreed. 

 

If Reed could still play then a team would have signed him, especially a team that can use a safety with a coach that is very close to him.

 

The fact that we have not signed him tells me everything I need to know about where Reed is at in his career. 

[Superman]

I don't want him covering deep, I don't mind him covering 5-10 yards with a TE or RB. Deep is where he's suspect at.

And we're not playing Gronk this season, he'll be injured by the time we get to NE. Dudes made of glass seems like

Far as Graham, I don't see any of our LB's (Maybe Freeman but even then that's questionable) covering Graham so we might have to use a safety or CB

 

To the bolded, I don't agree. He's better helping over the top than being solely responsible in short areas. 

 

One more thing, keep in mind that the term "strong safety" originally applied to what side of the field that player lined up on, the strong side or the weak side. Just like strongside or SAM backer refers to the linebacker on the strong side of the play, strong safety originally referred to the safety on the strong side of the play. Had little to do with which safety was down closer to the line of scrimmage.

 

Because the strong side of the play is typically the side the TE is lined up on, the SS would drop down into the box for run support, since the presence of a TE used to signal a run play. Anymore, that's not the case, because TEs are legitimate receiving threats these days, but that wasn't typically true back in the day. So that box safety could be less concerned about man coverage, and more concerned with run support, on many plays.

 

Things have obviously changed. The old FS/SS terms don't quite mean what they used to, but we do still typically use our SS on the strong side of the play.