Contrast/Comparison between Bill Polian and Ryan Grigson Drafts

[BlueShoe]

We all know Bill Polian had a beat to his own drum. This was a good beat for the first 9 years of his Colts tenure; however, not such a good sound over the last 5 years.

 

Often times when Bill Polian picked players; Colts fans (even ones deeply involved with the draft) were scrambling to find out who the player was. After searching through the run-of-the-mill draft websites, we were able to find a listing. Even as a fan who often studied as much as I could online about the top 300 prospects, I was at times left scratching my head. Sometimes Polian would pick a player in the second or third round that was listed as the 250th best player in the draft, and sometimes he was right too.

 

Grigson has a lot of these same traits, and this tells me that Grigson is going to either hit it big (2012 draft) or he is also going to strike out (2013 draft). Grigson is a gambler and it is very interesting now that we have a few drafts to study.

 

I don’t have time to go through every draft website, but I will use CBS (an underrated draft site that should get more respect). In my experience, CBS has been more accurate than ESPN in terms of grading players and creating an overall general board (when studied through hindsight). Plus everyone can access it for free. So we will use CBS as a measuring stick.

 

Actual Pick - 2/59 Jack Mewhort
CBS Ranking: 62
Minus 3

 

Actual Pick - 3/90 Donte Moncrief
CBS Ranking: 57
Plus 33

 

Actual Pick - 5/166 Jonathan Newsome
CBS Ranking: 343
Minus 177

 

Actual Pick - 6/203 Andrew Jackson
CBS Ranking: 250
Minus 47

 

Actual Pick - 7/232 Ulrick John
CBS Rankin: 373
Minus 141

 

We see that Mewhort went around where he should have gone and that Moncrief is possibly the steal of the draft for us. This is if we look at it from a fans point of view based on the knowledge that we have to use on the Internet.

 

As far as day 3; I didn’t know much about Newsome or Ulrick before we drafted them, but I did know about Andrew Jackson, and I do not agree with his ranking on any website I have seen. I never thought we would pick him because quite frankly, he is not the kind of player that I thought we would ever draft.

 

From a character standpoint we have our hands full with Jackson, which is partly why he is ranked so low. The other part of his low ranking is that he is from a smaller school. Talent-wise, he has all the tools to unseat either Freeman or D’Qwell. The young man is a gut-wrecker. The downside is he sometimes allows his emotions to get in the way; such as calling out Kentucky and the SEC. Not really a smart move to do before you play a team. So we have to work on his etiquette. Can you imagine what would happen if he called out the Patriots before we played them? So right now he is Brian Cox, but we need re-channel his focus and transform him into Brian Urlacher.

 

So far, from what I can tell is that on day 1 and day 2, Grigson is going to follow fairly close to the script; however, on the third day, good luck guessing who we are taking.

[Tracy Denton]

Yes, Jackson did run his mouth...but he backed it up !! I like the pick !!

[Adonai]

Some good info there.

[BlueShoe]

Yes, Jackson did run his mouth...but he backed it up !! I like the pick !!

I like the pick too; however, his attitude will not fly in the NFL. It will take a lot of work to get him mentally ready for the Pros.

What I worry about with a player like Andrew Jackson is when you take some of the fire away, does the fiery play go with it?

It's a gamble that has a huge upside, and if it does not work out then it was just a late pick that we took a chance on.

[chrisfarley]

I like the pick too; however, his attitude will not fly in the NFL. It will take a lot of work to get him mentally ready for the Pros.

What I worry about with a player like Andrew Jackson is when you take some of the fire away, does the fiery play go with it?

It's a gamble that has a huge upside, and if it does not work out then it was just a late pick that we took a chance on.

his attitude will fly with the colts.  Grigson said he will give kids a 2nd chance.  he is different in that regard from Polian.  Colts won't give kids many more chances than that however, they have learned their lesson.  our draft might be a D- to Kiper, but after further analysis, with what we had to work with, I think it's a keeper.  

[BlueShoe]

his attitude will fly with the colts.  Grigson said he will give kids a 2nd chance.  he is different in that regard from Polian.  Colts won't give kids many more chances than that however, they have learned their lesson.  our draft might be a D- to Kiper, but after further analysis, with what we had to work with, I think it's a keeper.  

 

Nice to see you have a positive view point.

 

I agree that our draft class can become a good one; however, I will withhold judgement on any grade until the players actually get a chance to play and show they are professionals. 

[Archer]

I know that many thought Polian was a BPA guy, but I couldn't disagree more.  I think he was a roster planner, once he had his championship team in place.  It was all about replacing guys who would leave in FA, usually a year early.  To me, Polian was definitely not a BPA guy.  One year, I predicted Polian's first 5 picks correctly by position in my mock draft. 

 

Grigson is much more into BPA, IMO.  He sticks to his draft board unless a pick makes no sense whatsoever - if he had a QB as the BPA in the 2nd, I don't think he would have done it.  He believes his Board will produce the best players for the future, so he sticks to it (needs be damned!).   As far as where CBS ranks guys -  that doesn't matter whatsoever.  He's much more into trusting the tape and what his scouts say.  I think he assumes, that if he sees something on tape that he likes, other NFL talent evaluators (ones paid by NFL teams, I mean) are going to see it too.  That's why he has no qualms about selecting Newsome or Ulrich significantly higher than the Internet dudes thought he should go.  ["It only takes one team" is what he said about Newsome (I believe), when asked about selecting him too high.]

[lollygagger8]

I still baffled we didn't pick up a safety in the draft, and only got one in the UDFA. 

 

Grigson said he didn't want to reach for a safety, but reached for Newsome and John? 

[BlueShoe]

I know that many thought Polian was a BPA guy, but I couldn't disagree more.  I think he was a roster planner, once he had his championship team in place.  It was all about replacing guys who would leave in FA, usually a year early.  To me, Polian was definitely not a BPA guy.  One year, I predicted Polian's first 5 picks correctly by position in my mock draft. 

 

Grigson is much more into BPA, IMO.  He sticks to his draft board unless a pick makes no sense whatsoever - if he had a QB as the BPA in the 2nd, I don't think he would have done it.  He believes his Board will produce the best players for the future, so he sticks to it (needs be damned!).   As far as where CBS ranks guys -  that doesn't matter whatsoever.  He's much more into trusting the tape and what his scouts say.  I think he assumes, that if he sees something on tape that he likes, other NFL talent evaluators (ones paid by NFL teams, I mean) are going to see it too.  That's why he has no qualms about selecting Newsome or Ulrich significantly higher than the Internet dudes thought he should go.  ["It only takes one team" is what he said about Newsome (I believe), when asked about selecting him too high.]

 

I don't disagree with your view point and completely agree with some of your thoughts. 

 

For clarification; I used CBS as a measuring stick, and I never intended for it to be the one size fits all for every team or every GM.

 

From what I can tell, Gigson does seem to be in the popular opinion (of so called expert analysts) over the first 2 days. Beginning on day 3, he drafts more like Bill Polian, in terms of finding his own diamonds in the rough. This was the entire point of the thread. While there are some similarities, there are also differences. 

 

I was able to catch on to how Bill Polian drafted too, and often predicted his picks. Grigson has 3 drafts under him and we can now analyze his drafting philosophy. 

[BlueShoe]

I still baffled we didn't pick up a safety in the draft, and only got one in the UDFA. 

 

Grigson said he didn't want to reach for a safety, but reached for Newsome and John? 

 

That is the thing though; in Grigson's mind they were not reaches. Newsome and John went where they should have gone according to our board.

 

I have a theory, and it is only an early assumption based on 3 drafts; I think it is possible that Grigson spent most of his time as a scout grading players who were not necessarily in the top 100 or so. Either by choice or job responsibility, Grigson seems to have more experience scouting the guys who are taken later in the draft. 

 

He has a keen eye for finding the diamonds in the rough, which is the same thing Bill Polian excelled at.

[lollygagger8]

I realize we are all just a bunch of fans that don't get paid to be GM's, but we all still have opinions. 

[BlueShoe]

I realize we are all just a bunch of fans that don't get paid to be GM's, but we all still have opinions. 

 

Absolutely. That is what this board is for.

[Patagonia Chris]

I've watched a lot of Ball State football over the years and personally I'm okay with the Newsome pick. At times last year he was the only bright spot on a bad defense. He does make some questionable decisions (shoplifting, getting thrown out of the Miami (OH) game his JR. year) but if they can focus his energy I think he can be a solid NFL player.

[BlueShoe]

I've watched a lot of Ball State football over the years and personally I'm okay with the Newsome pick. At times last year he was the only bright spot on a bad defense. He does make some questionable decisions (shoplifting, getting thrown out of the Miami (OH) game his JR. year) but if they can focus his energy I think he can be a solid NFL player.

 

Yeah, I am not against the pick; I don't know much about him. He certainly wouldn't be the first draft pick I did not know much about that had a stellar NFL career.

 

Sounds like life was going good for Newsome, with a full ride at Ohio State, and then he made some mistakes. It is much harder to get noticed at Ball State, and maybe this will prove to be one of Grigson's diamonds in the rough. He had good production and fits the mold as far as size. Time will tell. 

 

I may have watched one Ball State game last year on TV. It appears you have watched him play several times, and I appreciate the feedback.

[Archer]

Interesting thoughts about following the crowd with the early picks.  For the most part, it's been true (but not to hear the furor over the Mewhort pick).  I guess, with everyone looking at the same tape, it's hard to find overlooked players who belong in the first two days.  But things get a little murkier in the later rounds, where overlooked players can be had (Ulrich John?!).

[BOTT]

Old Hickory is a fiery trash talker? That describes 90% of MLB in the NFL.

[BlueShoe]

Old Hickory is a fiery trash talker? That describes 90% of MLB in the NFL.

 

On the field is one thing. Calling out the team (in the media) you are playing next week is another.

[Nesjan3]

We all know Bill Polian had a beat to his own drum. This was a good beat for the first 9 years of his Colts tenure; however, not such a good sound over the last 5 years.

 

Often times when Bill Polian picked players; Colts fans (even ones deeply involved with the draft) were scrambling to find out who the player was. After searching through the run-of-the-mill draft websites, we were able to find a listing. Even as a fan who often studied as much as I could online about the top 300 prospects, I was at times left scratching my head. Sometimes Polian would pick a player in the second or third round that was listed as the 250th best player in the draft, and sometimes he was right too.

 

Grigson has a lot of these same traits, and this tells me that Grigson is going to either hit it big (2012 draft) or he is also going to strike out (2013 draft). Grigson is a gambler and it is very interesting now that we have a few drafts to study.

 

I don’t have time to go through every draft website, but I will use CBS (an underrated draft site that should get more respect). In my experience, CBS has been more accurate than ESPN in terms of grading players and creating an overall general board (when studied through hindsight). Plus everyone can access it for free. So we will use CBS as a measuring stick.

 

Actual Pick - 2/59 Jack Mewhort

CBS Ranking: 62

Minus 3

 

Actual Pick - 3/90 Donte Moncrief

CBS Ranking: 57

Plus 33

 

Actual Pick - 5/166 Jonathan Newsome

CBS Ranking: 343

Minus 177

 

Actual Pick - 6/203 Andrew Jackson

CBS Ranking: 250

Minus 47

 

Actual Pick - 7/232 Ulrick John

CBS Rankin: 373

Minus 141

 

We see that Mewhort went around where he should have gone and that Moncrief is possibly the steal of the draft for us. This is if we look at it from a fans point of view based on the knowledge that we have to use on the Internet.

 

As far as day 3; I didn’t know much about Newsome or Ulrick before we drafted them, but I did know about Andrew Jackson, and I do not agree with his ranking on any website I have seen. I never thought we would pick him because quite frankly, he is not the kind of player that I thought we would ever draft.

 

From a character standpoint we have our hands full with Jackson, which is partly why he is ranked so low. The other part of his low ranking is that he is from a smaller school. Talent-wise, he has all the tools to unseat either Freeman or D’Qwell. The young man is a gut-wrecker. The downside is he sometimes allows his emotions to get in the way; such as calling out Kentucky and the SEC. Not really a smart move to do before you play a team. So we have to work on his etiquette. Can you imagine what would happen if he called out the Patriots before we played them? So right now he is Brian Cox, but we need re-channel his focus and transform him into Brian Urlacher.

 

So far, from what I can tell is that on day 1 and day 2, Grigson is going to follow fairly close to the script; however, on the third day, good luck guessing who we are taking.

I dont understand how you can consider 2013 draft a strike out, its only been one season and the majority of our picks were in the trench guys who take awhile to develop...

[MacDee1975]

Meh.....if you're going to be a gambler, what better time to do it then with your 5th - 7th round selections.

 

Unless you catch lightening in a bottle, the 6th & 7th rounders alot of times don't make the team anyways.

[BOTT]

On the field is one thing. Calling out the team (in the media) you are playing next week is another.

Meh, can't say it really bothers me. It makes for nice copy but doesn't affect the game.

[BlueShoe]

Meh, can't say it really bothers me. It makes for nice copy but doesn't affect the game.

 

We both know that doesn't go over well in the NFL.

 

Belichick would have have Jackson's face posted over every door in the Patriots building.

 

No need to give teams extra incentive. And when you lose after running your mouth like that it just gets worse. See Mike Doss.

[Superman]

I dont understand how you can consider 2013 draft a strike out, its only been one season and the majority of our picks were in the trench guys who take awhile to develop...

 

There is absolutely no way 2013 was a strike out. Such is the folly of trying to grade a draft in the heat of the moment or after one season.

[BOTT]

We both know that doesn't go over well in the NFL.

 

Belichick would have have Jackson's face posted over every door in the Patriots building.

 

No need to give teams extra incentive. And when you lose after running your mouth like that it just gets worse. See Mike Doss.

It doesn't go over well, but it has zero affect on the game. As long as he doesn't make a habit of it I don't really care. Guys talk massive trash during the game, but do it a week before and it's a football sin.

[BlueShoe]

It doesn't go over well, but it has zero affect on the game. As long as he doesn't make a habit of it I don't really care. Guys talk massive trash during the game, but do it a week before and it's a football sin.

 

That is because it is a football sin to do a week before.

[BlueShoe]

I dont understand how you can consider 2013 draft a strike out, its only been one season and the majority of our picks were in the trench guys who take awhile to develop...

 

I don't understand how you can consider it not a strike out - up to this point. Can it get better? Yeah, but from what we have seen in year one, it does not look very promising. Don't confuse my wants here. I want for all of the picks we made in 2013 to turn into studs, but the fact of the matter is they are not.

 

Here are the facts and it is very grim to say the least:

 

1 24 Bjoern Werner

He had 2.5 sacks in 13 games and was sidelined 3 games due to injury.  Bright spot was he posted 2 sacks in the last 3 games. Low point is he only posted 18 combined tackles and that is barely over 1 tackle per game.

 

3 86 Hugh Thornton

He was plugged into the fire quicker than expected and showed some promise in 12 starts; however, he did not stand out on an overall weak interior line.

 

4 121 Khaled Holmes

He played in 3 games for a total of 12 snaps at the end of the season, after sidelined due to injury the first 13 games. He has been deemed the center of the future.

 

5 139 Montori Hughes

He played in 4 games, posted 6 combined tackles, with no sacks or any other relative statistics.

 

6 192 John Boyett

“You can’t arrest me. I play for the Colts.” He never played a snap for the Colts.

 

7 230 Kerwynn Williams

Showed potential in the preseason; however, he only played in one game and recorded Zero offensive production.

 

7 254 Justice Cunningham

One catch for 4 yards and back to the practice squad.

 

Now I am not knocking Grigson, because I believe in him. But he will strike out just like any GM can. These were not very good picks and we cannot repeat the 2013 draft.

 

Don't shoot the guy pointing out the facts. Things did not go the way I wanted them to either.

[BlueShoe]

There is absolutely no way 2013 was a strike out. Such is the folly of trying to grade a draft in the heat of the moment or after one season.

 

This is not the heat of the moment. This is reality. I love the Colts too, but I am not going to lie to myself. The facts are right in front of us.

[Superman]

This is not the heat of the moment. This is reality. I love the Colts too, but I am not going to lie to myself. The facts are right in front of us.

 

So what are these facts that lead you to the conclusion that the 2013 draft was a strikeout?

[BlueShoe]

So what are these facts that lead you to the conclusion that the 2013 draft was a strikeout?

 

Is it not obvious? There was no production.

 

Ultimately that is what matters. Production.

[Danfish98]

I don't understand how you can consider it not a strike out - up to this point. Can it get better? Yeah, but from what we have seen in year one, it does not look very promising. Don't confuse my wants here. I want for all of the picks we made in 2013 to turn into studs, but the fact of the matter is they are not.

 

Here are the facts and it is very grim to say the least:

 

1 24 Bjoern Werner

He had 2.5 sacks in 13 games and was sidelined 3 games due to injury.  Bright spot was he posted 2 sacks in the last 3 games. Low point is he only posted 18 combined tackles and that is barely over 1 tackle per game.

 

3 86 Hugh Thornton

He was plugged into the fire quicker than expected and showed some promise in 12 starts; however, he did not stand out on an overall weak interior line.

 

4 121 Khaled Holmes

He played in 3 games for a total of 12 snaps at the end of the season, after sidelined due to injury the first 13 games. He has been deemed the center of the future.

 

5 139 Montori Hughes

He played in 4 games, posted 6 combined tackles, with no sacks or any other relative statistics.

 

6 192 John Boyett

“You can’t arrest me. I play for the Colts.” He never played a snap for the Colts.

 

7 230 Kerwynn Williams

Showed potential in the preseason; however, he only played in one game and recorded Zero offensive production.

 

7 254 Justice Cunningham

One catch for 4 yards and back to the practice squad.

 

Now I am not knocking Grigson, because I believe in him. But he will strike out just like any GM can. These were not very good picks and we cannot repeat the 2013 draft.

 

Don't shoot the guy pointing out the facts. Things did not go the way I wanted them to either.

Rounds 6 and 7 were strikeouts, that is true.  It's fair to expect at least some special teams production from 1 of your 3 picks in this case so I guess some criticism is fair but a vast majority of 6th and 7th round picks strike out.  Bethea and Brady are the exceptions, not the rule.  The jury is still out on the rest of the picks.  Werner was starting to look much better before an injury set him back.  You already mentioned that he was coming back on again at the end of the year.  Dwight Freeney wasn't a beast his rookie year either and Werner has less football experience.  I think if we revisit this pick 2 years from now your tone will change.  Thornton was thrust into a starting role because of injuries and forced to play at a different position than normal.  I expect him to be much better this year as well.  I question why Holmes couldn't sniff the field last year and that's concerning.  Looks like he'll be the starting center for us this year so we'll know much more about this pick soon.  Hughes is a project.  Interior defensive lineman generally take longer to develop, even when they aren't projects.  I saw potential when I watched him on the field but it remains to be seen if he'll make that potential a reality.  That potential seems well worth a 5th round pick to me.  You can make the argument that we shouldn't have traded away a 4th in this years draft for that 5th round pick but that's a different discussion.

[Superman]

Is it not obvious? There was no production.

 

Ultimately that is what matters. Production.

 

Don't you feel you're being short-sighted? Holmes is projected to start, Thornton is projected to start, Werner is projected to be a rotational player, and Hughes is projected to be a rotational player. Eventually, Werner and Hughes are projected to start. Aren't the players drafted meant to help the team beyond just one year?

 

Not only that, but there was production out of Werner and Thornton.

[BlueShoe]

Rounds 6 and 7 were strikeouts, that is true.  It's fair to expect at least some special teams production from 1 of your 3 picks in this case so I guess some criticism is fair but a vast majority of 6th and 7th round picks strike out.  Bethea and Brady are the exceptions, not the rule.  The jury is still out on the rest of the picks.  Werner was starting to look much better before an injury set him back.  You already mentioned that he was coming back on again at the end of the year.  Dwight Freeney wasn't a beast his rookie year either and Werner has less football experience.  I think if we revisit this pick 2 years from now your tone will change.  Thornton was thrust into a starting role because of injuries and forced to play at a different position than normal.  I expect him to be much better this year as well.  I question why Holmes couldn't sniff the field last year and that's concerning.  Looks like he'll be the starting center for us this year so we'll know much more about this pick soon.  Hughes is a project.  Interior defensive lineman generally take longer to develop, even when they aren't projects.  I saw potential when I watched him on the field but it remains to be seen if he'll make that potential a reality.  That potential seems well worth a 5th round pick to me.  You can make the argument that we shouldn't have traded away a 4th in this years draft for that 5th round pick but that's a different discussion.

 

Are you kidding me with this response? No crap most 6th and 7th rounders do not make it. I have been an avid Colts fan for over 30 years and have a very extensive knowledge of what goes on in the NFL.

 

What season where you watching when you say Freeney did not play well his rookie year? That is a load of bull crap! He was a beast his rookie season. Yeah we held him back at first, but once they let him loose the NFL witnessed terror. He was all over quarterbacks. I saw him live for the first time in his rookie training camp, and he was already a man among boys. To this day, I have never seen any football player that physically impressive.

 

It is true that the tone can change in a few years and I hope it does, but right now it is what it is. Why lie to yourself about reality?

[BlueShoe]

Don't you feel you're being short-sighted? Holmes is projected to start, Thornton is projected to start, Werner is projected to be a rotational player, and Hughes is projected to be a rotational player. Eventually, Werner and Hughes are projected to start. Aren't the players drafted meant to help the team beyond just one year?

 

Not only that, but there was production out of Werner and Thornton.

 

I have already said that things can change and that I hope they do. But the facts we have in front of us show us that it was not a very good draft - At This Time.

 

I am not the kind of fan who judges a draft the day after, but we have had a year to get a feel for these players, and so far it is not good.

 

Grigson did a great job in the 2012 draft, but it is not looking good for the 2013 class. I hope that changes. At this point I am more impressed with the 2014 draft than I am the 2013 draft, and those players haven't even suited up yet.

[Superman]

I have already said that things can change and that I hope they do. But the facts we have in front of us show us that it was not a very good draft - At This Time.

 

I am not the kind of fan who judges a draft the day after, but we have had a year to get a feel for these players, and so far it is not good.

 

Grigson did a great job in the 2012 draft, but it is not looking good for the 2013 class. I hope that changes. At this point I am more impressed with the 2014 draft than I am the 2013 draft, and those players haven't even suited up yet.

 

That's even more evidence that you're judging in the heat of the moment, and without allowing the players a reasonable opportunity to contribute.

 

The verdict is very much still out on the 2013 draft class (and even more so on this year's draft class). You keep talking about the facts in front of us, but you have little to nothing with which to grade a player like Khaled Holmes or Montori Hughes. You're bearish on Bjoern Werner, which means that anyone who thinks he's a promising player is lying to themselves. You haven't acknowledged in this thread that Werner was drafted to play Rush backer, but wound up learning and backing up two separate positions.

 

You're grading Hughes' "production" by the stat sheet, not acknowledging how he actually played when he was on the field. You've spent more time being critical of late round picks that didn't stick than stating that we got two potential starting offensive linemen out of our third and fourth round picks. Very few people have mentioned how trench heavy the draft was, and how long it usually takes trench players to produce in the NFL. Especially third, fourth and fifth rounders.

 

I don't think you necessarily need to be all positive about last year's draft. But you talk about it as if it's a closed case. Saying "at this time" suggests that you expected to be convinced about that draft class after Year 1. A year ago, people were complaining about how rough Fleener's rookie year was, but he played much better last season, didn't he? Point is, it's awfully premature to declare the 2013 draft class as a "strike out," and anyone who doesn't endorse that line of reasoning isn't 'lying to themselves' or 'ignoring the facts.' A better way to look at it is reserving judgment.

[BlueShoe]

That's even more evidence that you're judging in the heat of the moment, and without allowing the players a reasonable opportunity to contribute.

 

The verdict is very much still out on the 2013 draft class (and even more so on this year's draft class). You keep talking about the facts in front of us, but you have little to nothing with which to grade a player like Khaled Holmes or Montori Hughes. You're bearish on Bjoern Werner, which means that anyone who thinks he's a promising player is lying to themselves. You haven't acknowledged in this thread that Werner was drafted to play Rush backer, but wound up learning and backing up two separate positions.

 

You're grading Hughes' "production" by the stat sheet, not acknowledging how he actually played when he was on the field. You've spent more time being critical of late round picks that didn't stick than stating that we got two potential starting offensive linemen out of our third and fourth round picks. Very few people have mentioned how trench heavy the draft was, and how long it usually takes trench players to produce in the NFL. Especially third, fourth and fifth rounders.

 

I don't think you necessarily need to be all positive about last year's draft. But you talk about it as if it's a closed case. Saying "at this time" suggests that you expected to be convinced about that draft class after Year 1. A year ago, people were complaining about how rough Fleener's rookie year was, but he played much better last season, didn't he? Point is, it's awfully premature to declare the 2013 draft class as a "strike out," and anyone who doesn't endorse that line of reasoning isn't 'lying to themselves' or 'ignoring the facts.' A better way to look at it is reserving judgment.

 

You can continue to believe what you want to, but I would rather be honest with myself.

 

If they improve, then I am not wrong about them. The NFL is all about what have you done for me lately, and the 2013 draft class has not done much.

 

I am a very optimistic person, so I am guessing the road you drive home on is paved with Gold or something, because it takes a lot of reaching to feel good about the 2013 draft class. Further than I am willing to reach until they start showing me something.

 

You are given the right to have your own opinion about a football team and entitled to it. So am I.

 

I hope they all turn into all-stars, but from where we are standing today, it does not look like that will happen. Sometimes you just have to be willing to accept that as a possibility.

[Superman]

You can continue to believe what you want to, but I would rather be honest with myself.

 

If they improve, then I am not wrong about them. The NFL is all about what have you done for me lately, and the 2013 draft class has not done much.

 

I am a very optimistic person, so I am guessing the road you drive home on is paved with Gold or something, because it takes a lot of reaching to feel good about the 2013 draft class. Further than I am willing to reach until they start showing me something.

 

You are given the right to have your own opinion about a football team and entitled to it. So am I.

 

I hope they all turn into all-stars, but from where we are standing today, it does not look like that will happen. Sometimes you just have to be willing to accept that as a possibility.

 

To the bolded, your "I would rather be honest with myself" line, coupled with the golden road comment, suggest that if my opinion is more optimistic than yours, that I'm living in a dream world. So it's not quite an opinion; it's more like a fantasy that you'll allow me to indulge in, but whenever I'm ready to wake up, you'll be there to introduce me to real life...

 

Me being more optimistic about the 2013 draft doesn't mean I'm lying to myself. When you say things like that, you're going to get pushback. Especially when you speak in platitudes rather than offering analysis.

 

The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" environment. But if you take that kind of approach with first year players, especially trench players, you're gonna have a bad time.

[BlueShoe]

To the bolded, your "I would rather be honest with myself" line, coupled with the golden road comment, suggest that if my opinion is more optimistic than yours, that I'm living in a dream world. So it's not quite an opinion; it's more like a fantasy that you'll allow me to indulge in, but whenever I'm ready to wake up, you'll be there to introduce me to real life...

 

Me being more optimistic about the 2013 draft doesn't mean I'm lying to myself. When you say things like that, you're going to get pushback. Especially when you speak in platitudes rather than offering analysis.

 

The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" environment. But if you take that kind of approach with first year players, especially trench players, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

Fair enough. I apologize for discarding your opinion.

 

We obviously have two different viewpoints on this, but we both want it to end the same way. Here's to hoping we both get what we want.

[Superman]

Fair enough. I apologize for discarding your opinion.

 

We obviously have two different viewpoints on this, but we both want it to end the same way. Here's to hoping we both get what we want.

 

You don't have to apologize to me. I'm just saying I don't think the 2013 draft was a "strike out." If you had said we haven't gotten much out of that class yet, I wouldn't have said anything. That's very true. Calling it a "strike out" seems too final, given that it's only been one year.

 

And yeah, even though we disagree, we obviously both hope the draft class develops to the positive. I wish we had done better late in the draft, but I think there's plenty of room for improvement and development with the four guys we have left.

[Nesjan3]

I don't understand how you can consider it not a strike out - up to this point. Can it get better? Yeah, but from what we have seen in year one, it does not look very promising. Don't confuse my wants here. I want for all of the picks we made in 2013 to turn into studs, but the fact of the matter is they are not.

 

Here are the facts and it is very grim to say the least:

 

1 24 Bjoern Werner

He had 2.5 sacks in 13 games and was sidelined 3 games due to injury.  Bright spot was he posted 2 sacks in the last 3 games. Low point is he only posted 18 combined tackles and that is barely over 1 tackle per game.

 

3 86 Hugh Thornton

He was plugged into the fire quicker than expected and showed some promise in 12 starts; however, he did not stand out on an overall weak interior line.

 

4 121 Khaled Holmes

He played in 3 games for a total of 12 snaps at the end of the season, after sidelined due to injury the first 13 games. He has been deemed the center of the future.

 

5 139 Montori Hughes

He played in 4 games, posted 6 combined tackles, with no sacks or any other relative statistics.

 

6 192 John Boyett

“You can’t arrest me. I play for the Colts.” He never played a snap for the Colts.

 

7 230 Kerwynn Williams

Showed potential in the preseason; however, he only played in one game and recorded Zero offensive production.

 

7 254 Justice Cunningham

One catch for 4 yards and back to the practice squad.

 

Now I am not knocking Grigson, because I believe in him. But he will strike out just like any GM can. These were not very good picks and we cannot repeat the 2013 draft.

 

Don't shoot the guy pointing out the facts. Things did not go the way I wanted them to either.

ok so 6,7,7 were obviously strike out players which is normal in any draft for any team, but 1,3,4 are far from strike outs, and anybody with half an NFL IQ can agree that 1yr is not by any means substantial time to evaluate these guys. 

[Defjamz26]

I give Grigs until next year until deciding what type of drafter he is. He'll have a full draft for the first time since 2012. I think he realized that he was shooting himself in the foot by trading away future picks, which is why he was so patient this draft. It was just unfortunate because this was the worst time to not have a 1st round pick, especially when you look at the guys who went in the mid 20's and early 2nd round. Worst part is it all comes back to that Richardson trade.

 

I thought this was a good draft, and better than any Polian draft. He didn't reach for need like Polian did (Donald Brown in the 1st, Jerry Hughes, etc...). But next year is a big year. We'll be able to fully cast judgment and grade guys like Montori Hughes, Chapman, etc...

[Warhorse]

If you have to determine the success of your teams draft by the "production" of rookies....you dont have a very good team.