Russell Wilson compared to Brady

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Um...Dilfer played four playoff games in his Super Bowl year compared to three for Wilson. Dilfer completed less than 50% of his passes in two of them, including the Super Bowl, was right at 50% in a third, and never passed for more than 200 yards in any of the four games.  Wilson passed for 205 yards against the Broncos in slightly more than three quarters after which the Seahawks offense shut it down and all but quit passing after taking a 43-8 lead.  And Wilson was on the sidelines wearing a baseball hat the last couple of series.

 

Wilson vs Dilfer career stats:  Completion pct (63.6 - 55.5), TD pct (6.5 - 3.6),  INT pct (2.4 - 4.1), ANY/A (7.05 - 4.4), QB rating (100.6 - 70.2)

 

The comparison is dumb.

They both got to the super bowl without barely ever throwing for a measly 200 yards a game. That is the glaring comparison.

[rsrobinson]

They both got to the super bowl without barely ever throwing for a measly 200 yards a game. That is the glaring comparison.

Tom Brady won his first Super Bowl while averaging less than 200 yards per game including 115 in the AFCCG and 145 in the Super Bowl.

 

So what? 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Tom Brady won his first Super Bowl while averaging less than 200 yards per game including 115 in the AFCCG and 145 in the Super Bowl.

 

So what? 

So it proves his defense, like theirs, won the SB for him.

 

When Tom had his best statistical years, he still wasnt good enough to win without a great defense.

[amfootball]

No, what I'm am saying is that both Dilfer & RW had pieces around them that carried them & made them look better than they really are. You seem to forget that all saw all of RW's college home games. If you think RW is the next Tom Brady you my friend are insane. 

 

RW didn't make that team win a ring. He made 3 good throws coupled with WR Tate & Richard Sherman shutting down his side of the field who are you kidding?! LOL! 

 

I need to ask you a question: How come when RW & Aaron Rogers claim that Tom Brady is the best QB in the NFL today, people wanna elevate them to a level of the next great field general simply because they decide to kiss his caboose or some ESPN writer compares him to Tommy Terrific? That just baffles me. 

 

I do respect Brady, but simply because a QB may believe he is an elite QB & in their eyes the best in the game, I refuse to raise RW up on the QB level only because he or a writer paid Brady a complement. Does RW have the capacity to improve & become elite? Sure, he does. Is here there now after a dominant, defensive SB victory right now? Hades no not even close. It's all about perspective & not giving RW undue praise that he really hasn't earned yet longevity wise. 

I get where you are coming from now. The only thing is stats-wise Wilson is a MUCH better QB if you compare his first two seasons with any two seasons of Dilfer.

 

In terms of the Brady comparison. It happens with every young QB. I remember the media comparing Jake Delhomme to Brady and then it was Rivers and then Roethlisberger and then Rodgers and now Wilson. I think when you win the rings and have the best winning percentage, it is natural for the media to compare every young talent to you. It is the same with Jordan and has been ever since he retired.

 

I don't think the author was saying Wilson IS Brady or WILL BE Brady but that the beginnings of their careers have similarities which they do. Brady's stats were not even as good as Wilson's his first two seasons and he did not possess the mobility either. As I said earlier in the thread, I am interested to see if Carroll and the Seattle FO can keep a competitive team around Wilson and how he will respond when the players change over as happened to Brady and units have to be rebuilt. We really don't know but I think the comparison right now is valid. It is not perfect as no comparison every is but Wilson is the most like Brady at this point.

[rsrobinson]

So it proves his defense, like theirs, won the SB for him.

 

When Tom had his best statistical years, he still wasnt good enough to win without a great defense.

A good defense has always been important for success in the NFL. John Elway won his first Super Bowl averaging less than 200 yds per game in the postseason and passed for just 123 yds against Green Bay in the Super Bowl.  Once again...so what?  200 yards isn't some kind of magic benchmark and there are lots of quarterbacks who won Super Bowls without throwing for video game yardage.  Are they all equal to Trent Dilfer who was a mediocre quarterback before during and after his Super Bowl year?

[Paulie Gualtieri]

A good defense has always been important for success in the NFL. John Elway won his first Super Bowl averaging less than 200 yds per game in the postseason and passed for just 123 yds against Green Bay in the Super Bowl.  Once again...so what?  200 yards isn't some kind of magic benchmark and there are lots of quarterbacks who won Super Bowls without throwing for video game yardage.  Are they all equal to Trent Dilfer who was a mediocre quarterback before during and after his Super Bowl year?

No, because these guys' eras were a lot closer to Dilfer's than some of the other players who played during a less pass happy time.

[rsrobinson]

No, because these guys' eras were a lot closer to Dilfer's than some of the other players who played during a less pass happy time.

 

So 2001 was the Dark Ages for the forward pass?  Hell, Kurt Warner and the Greatest Show on Turf won the SB the previous year.

 

Hilarious.

 

Three teams from the NFC (Seattle, San Francisco, and Carolina) were at or near the bottom of the league in passing attempts in 2013 and they had a combined record of 42-13 including the playoffs.  Of the top ten pass happy teams only the Saints and Broncos had a winning record and the pass happy AFC team got crushed in the SB.  Pass happy isn't necessarily the path to success even in 2013 and there are coaches and teams who don't want to pass the ball 35-40 times a game.  Russell Wilson's arm wouldn't fall off and he wouldn't suddenly go from being an accurate passer who makes good decisions to an inaccurate one who makes bad decisions if asked to pass the ball ten more times a game.

 

Anyone who compares Wilson to Dilfer either knows nothing about the game of football or has an agenda to discredit Russell Wilson.  There is no third option.

[amfootball]

No, because these guys' eras were a lot closer to Dilfer's than some of the other players who played during a less pass happy time.

[southwest1]

I get where you are coming from now. The only thing is stats-wise Wilson is a MUCH better QB if you compare his first two seasons with any two seasons of Dilfer.

 

In terms of the Brady comparison. It happens with every young QB. I remember the media comparing Jake Delhomme to Brady and then it was Rivers and then Roethlisberger and then Rodgers and now Wilson. I think when you win the rings and have the best winning percentage, it is natural for the media to compare every young talent to you. It is the same with Jordan and has been ever since he retired.

 

I don't think the author was saying Wilson IS Brady or WILL BE Brady but that the beginnings of their careers have similarities which they do. Brady's stats were not even as good as Wilson's his first two seasons and he did not possess the mobility either. As I said earlier in the thread, I am interested to see if Carroll and the Seattle FO can keep a competitive team around Wilson and how he will respond when the players change over as happened to Brady and units have to be rebuilt. We really don't know but I think the comparison right now is valid. It is not perfect as no comparison every is but Wilson is the most like Brady at this point.

Nice post. I wasn't angry at you or anything. I just get upset when the current SB Champion always seems to be compared to Brady. Actually, IMO that's an insult to Brady & the time he has put in to be so consistent for over a decade. You've gotta earn such an elite comparison to a future HOF QB by consistently winning your division & Playoff games year in year out. Yes, I realize that the media is typically praising the latest young gun QB not RW himself, but RW should be defusing this comparison immediately saying that they are flattered by being compared to such a game winning, clutch QB, but I still have a ton of work to do to even reach that plateau. 

 

I always wonder why Big Ben in Pittsburgh doesn't get compared to RW strictly on their improvisation skills & staying alive with his feet to make the huge completion downfield actually. Big Ben always gets ignored in upper class QBs circles & SW1 never understands why.

 

Making the argument that RW is on pace to launch an NFL career similar in scope to Tom Brady is very dangerous because RW is so young & still honing his field general skill set. In my mind, you wait 5 or 6 years before you even begin to compare RW's game to any HOF QB. Do I like RW? Yes. Do I believe he has the pedigree/work ethic to help the Hawks become a consistent Playoffs winner? Sure. Would I even think of comparing him to Brady right now? No, not even close. 

 

I also wonder once Brady & Manning retire, who will be the elder HOF NFL statesman? Drew Brees? Aaron Rogers? Which QB will assume the mantle of establishment benchmark that all young gun QBs are compared to? Just thinking outloud...

[amfootball]

 

I also wonder once Brady & Manning retire, who will be the elder HOF NFL statesman? Drew Brees? Aaron Rogers? Which QB will assume the mantle of establishment benchmark that all young gun QBs are compared to? Just thinking outloud...

Great question SW. I think the game is poised for many QBs to take over like Rodgers, Wilson, Luck, Kaep, Newton, RG and possibly one or two from this year's QB class too.

 

I am not sure we will see an era again with Brady and Manning. They have played so far above everyone else for so long that I can't imagine it again. I don't think any QB tops Mannings league MVPs and I don't any QB begins their career like Brady with 10 straight playoff wins and three rings and has a perfect regular season either. That being said, in the NBA you had Kobe that took over for Jordan in the 00's and Shaq too to some extent. Now there is Lebron so you never know who is on the horizon. But for sure Brady will continue to be that benchmark for winning and rings for every QB going forward. I would think he is flattered by the comparisons not angered by them.

[rsrobinson]

Great question SW. I think the game is poised for many QBs to take over like Rodgers, Wilson, Luck, Kaep, Newton, RG and possibly one or two from this year's QB class too.

I am not sure we will see an era again with Brady and Manning. They have played so far above everyone else for so long that I can't imagine it again. I don't think any QB tops Mannings league MVPs and I don't any QB begins their career like Brady with 10 straight playoff wins and three rings and has a perfect regular season either. That being said, in the NBA you had Kobe that took over for Jordan in the 00's and Shaq too to some extent. Now there is Lebron so you never know who is on the horizon. But for sure Brady will continue to be that benchmark for winning and rings for every QB going forward. I would think he is flattered by the comparisons not angered by them.

I think every era will have its great quarterback rivalries. The Class of 2012 has already produced the beginnings of one in the Luck vs Wilson vs RG3 debate. Wilson has the edge so far with a Super Bowl ring, RG3 has fallen off a bit, and Nick Foles has entered the conversation but there is a lot of football left to be played to see who rises to the top. You can also throw Kaepernick and Newton into the mix. Will any of them rise to the level of Brady or Manning? Its too early to say but the potential is there for one or more of them to do it. Neither Manning nor Brady were great players after two years in the league; it took time for them to develop their games to become the great players that they eventually became. In a couple of more years we'll see which of the current group of young guns has continued to elevate their game, who has stagnated, and who has regressed.

[chad72]

I think every era will have its great quarterback rivalries. The Class of 2012 has already produced the beginnings of one in the Luck vs Wilson vs RG3 debate. Wilson has the edge so far with a Super Bowl ring, RG3 has fallen off a bit, and Nick Foles has entered the conversation but there is a lot of football left to be played to see who rises to the top. You can also throw Kaepernick and Newton into the mix. Will any of them rise to the level of Brady or Manning? Its too early to say but the potential is there for one or more of them to do it. Neither Manning nor Brady were great players after two years in the league; it took time for them to develop their games to become the great players that they eventually became. In a couple of more years we'll see which of the current group of young guns has continued to elevate their game, who has stagnated, and who has regressed.

 

Class of 2012 will be the next 2004 when Eli, Big Ben and Philip Rivers were drafted, IMO. We will find out how the SB rings end up and which teams make the right moves.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I was surprised he went in the 3rd, and noted it was a height issue. Because I remember how peeps gushed over him when he transferredto Wisconsin and had stellar season. His bowl game was said to be a better performance than Andrew Luck's. and Some sites had him as a round 1selection-

 

http://www.kffl.com/a.php/130092/nfl-draft/2012-NFL-Draft-Scouting-Report--Russell-Wilson--QB--Wisconsin

 

He, and Brees before him, have largely removed the height stigma. But not other stigma's... ;)

[thedude]

it seems the mods disagree with you

How so?

[thedude]

RW is not a great QB like you see to be implying rsrobinson. He is a slightly above average QB with a spectacular defense & a top notch secondary. Again,

Wilson does have a tremendous defense backing him up, but he is a top shelf QB by any measure.  One of the very best today.  He plays as mistake free football as you can.  He doesn't force things and has the ability to take advantage of any weakness in a defense.  Plus he can read defenses extremely well and can find out where that weakness is.

[TDavis58]

They are a lot alike....

Both got carried to championships by a dominant defense.

People seem to forget that the Patriots won those 3 titles in 4 years behind a great defense. Brady was a game manager.

Then their defense got old & they lost others to free agency, so they decided to build a big offense around Brady. He didn't start putting up big numbers until after he won that 3rd ring in '04. And he hasn't won % since then.

[thedude]

Both got carried to championships by a dominant defense.

 

There were several times during the season that Wilson carried that team to a win.  The defense did not play at that super bowl level the entire season.

[TDavis58]

There were several times during the season that Wilson carried that team to a win.  The defense did not play at that super bowl level the entire season.

They gave up like 13 ppg for the year....

The defense carried them the entire year.

[thedude]

They gave up like 13 ppg for the year....

The defense carried them the entire year.

You must not have seen them play much last year. The defense didn't carry them when they fell behind the Bucs 21-0 and rallied to win in OT. Several times Wilson carried them to a win. They would not have made it to the Super Bowl last season with an average QB running the team.

[TDavis58]

You must not have seen them play much last year. The defense didn't carry them when they fell behind the Bucs 21-0 and rallied to win in OT. Several times Wilson carried them to a win. They would not have made it to the Super Bowl last season with an average QB running the team.

The Bucs?!?!

ALL HAIL WILSON HE DOMINATED THE cruddy TB BUCS!!!

[amfootball]

They gave up like 13 ppg for the year....

The defense carried them the entire year.

So the Hawks defense carried Wilson and the O and yet the Panther defense did not carry Newton and his O?

 

You do realize Panthers defense was ranked #2 in points and yards. Second only to the Hawks.

 

I think it is fair to say that BOTH young QBs were carried by their defense but in the end Wilson got his team the ring.

[amfootball]

They are a lot alike....

Both got carried to championships by a dominant defense.

People seem to forget that the Patriots won those 3 titles in 4 years behind a great defense. Brady was a game manager.

Then their defense got old & they lost others to free agency, so they decided to build a big offense around Brady. He didn't start putting up big numbers until after he won that 3rd ring in '04. And he hasn't won % since then.

Sure he did. Brady only made the pro bowl two of the those three championship years and the O was ranked even or higher than the D two of those three years as well. And of course his GW/fourth quarter comeback drives to win SIX of those playoff games en route to those three rings meant nothing either. It was all D.

[jvan1973]

How so?

the fact that he is banned now

[TDavis58]

So the Hawks defense carried Wilson and the O and yet the Panther defense did not carry Newton and his O?

You do realize Panthers defense was ranked #2 in points and yards. Second only to the Hawks.

I think it is fair to say that BOTH young QBs were carried by their defense but in the end Wilson got his team the ring.

Cam Newton has more yardage than any QBn NFL history thru 3 seasons & more touchdowns than any QB not named Dan Marino.

Nobody has carried him. He's been great from day 1. His first 2 years his defense was ranked at the very bottom of the league. He finally got a competent defense & the wins piled up.

Sure he did. Brady only made the pro bowl two of the those three championship years and the O was ranked even or higher than the D two of those three years as well. And of course his GW/fourth quarter comeback drives to win SIX of those playoff games en rouInt

to those three rings meant nothing either. It was all D.

Brady avg during 3 title runs...

23 Td 13 Int

Brady avg since...

33 Td 10 Int

He was a game manager who played on great teams when they were winning titles.

[amfootball]

  

Cam Newton has more yardage than any QBn NFL history thru 3 seasons & more touchdowns than any QB not named Dan Marino.

Nobody has carried him. He's been great from day 1. His first 2 years his defense was ranked at the very bottom of the league. He finally got a competent defense & the wins piled up.

'01- 2,843 Yd 18 Td 12 Int

'03- 3,620 Yd 23 Td 12 Int

'04- 3,692 Yd 28 Td 14 Int

Those are pedestrian numbers considering he's praised as arguably the greatest QB ever who carried his team to all these SB titles.

How are those pedestrian? I am not sure why you only look at volume stats. Go a little deeper and check completion percentage, third down efficiency and fourth quarter numbers when the game was on the line. The measure of a great QB has nothing to do with volume that is more a reflection of the talent around the QB which is why Brady's volume stats rose so much more with Welker and Moss around him. But his other measurables stayed the same. If they were so pedestrian he would not have made the pro bowl in 2001 and 2004. And remember those stats are before the rule changes that now allow receivers to go down the field untouched and protect the QB like he is a china doll.

[TDavis58]

Mentioning the Pro Bowl as a measurementmeasurement of players shows your incompetence. That crap is a joke.

[amfootball]

Mentioning the Pro Bowl as a measurementmeasurement of players shows your incompetence. That crap is a joke.

Huh? Brady in his first season as a starter made the pro bowl when those spots are usually given to the vets that have been consistent year in and year out. And then he made it again two years later with his best statistical season of his career up to that point.

[ruksak]

It's the off-season. I wouldn't be surprised if they began debating who has a bigger  .... *ahem....package. 

[sweetsurrender]

They are a lot alike....

Both got carried to championships by a dominant defense.

People seem to forget that the Patriots won those 3 titles in 4 years behind a great defense. Brady was a game manager.

Then their defense got old & they lost others to free agency, so they decided to build a big offense around Brady. He didn't start putting up big numbers until after he won that 3rd ring in '04. And he hasn't won % since then.

You really should stop discussing QBs now ....

[rsrobinson]

How are those pedestrian? I am not sure why you only look at volume stats. Go a little deeper and check completion percentage, third down efficiency and fourth quarter numbers when the game was on the line. The measure of a great QB has nothing to do with volume that is more a reflection of the talent around the QB which is why Brady's volume stats rose so much more with Welker and Moss around him. But his other measurables stayed the same. If they were so pedestrian he would not have made the pro bowl in 2001 and 2004. And remember those stats are before the rule changes that now allow receivers to go down the field untouched and protect the QB like he is a china doll.

He sounds like a product of the fantasy football generation. Volume stats are basically all some of them care about. He's also using Newton's rushing stats to pump up his overall stats. There's no doubt that Newton is a far better runner than Brady, and there's value in that, but ultimately efficiency in passing the football is what defines the great quarterbacks and Brady is much more efficient than Newton. A QB can be a statue and still be a great quarterback (Manning, Marino) while a QB who is a great runner but is not an efficient passer cannot (Michael Vick).

[amfootball]

He sounds like a product of the fantasy football generation. Volume stats are basically all some of them care about. He's also using Newton's rushing stats to pump up his overall stats. There's no doubt that Newton is a far better runner than Brady, and there's value in that, but ultimately efficiency in passing the football is what defines the great quarterbacks and Brady is much more efficient than Newton. A QB can be a statue and still be a great quarterback (Manning, Marino) while a QB who is a great runner but is not an efficient passer cannot (Michael Vick).

Good points all around. When I watch Newton, I see Steve McNair but a much more psychologically fragile McNair with less accuracy.

[thedude]

The Bucs?!?!

ALL HAIL WILSON HE DOMINATED THE cruddy TB BUCS!!!

A QB can't be the leader in wins all time over his first two seasons, with a super bowl win,  by riding the coat tails of a defense.  I know Colts fans are very sensitive about the success of Wilson because he's in the same draft class as Luck, but you're just going to need to get over it and accept it.  You should be excited that he's setting the bar so high for his peers.

[rsrobinson]

The Bucs?!?!

ALL HAIL WILSON HE DOMINATED THE cruddy TB BUCS!!!

Russell Wilson has eight 4th quarter comebacks and ten game winning drives in two seasons. Cam Newton has six of each over three seasons. You don't win as many games as a starting quarterback in the NFL as Wilson has unless you can make plays during crunch time in close games.

[thedude]

Bottom line is that Wilson is one of the best QB's in the game today and there's no reason to think he will not continue to be one of the best for the next decade.

[GoPats]

Mentioning the Pro Bowl as a measurementmeasurement of players shows your incompetence. That crap is a joke.

 

Unless it's Cam Newton. Then it's totally relevant. 

[Fake Jeff Skilling]

Bottom line is that Wilson is one of the best QB's in the game today and there's no reason to think he will not continue to be one of the best for the next decade.

best in the game today?

 

like joe flacco was last year at this time?

 

Manning, Rodgers, Brees, brady, Roethlisberger are all without question better. far from "the best in the game"

[Fake Jeff Skilling]

In what way did the colts have a far better defense or special teams? And give examples how pagano is a better coach than Shanahan

 

 

Just look at the stats of each unit.

 

I am talking about last season in terms of the coaching. Pagano did a much better job with coaching a team to 11 wins that had a lot of injuries. Shanny basically gave up by the end of Sept and then officially blew out of town by benching a healthy RG with three weeks to go. But go ahead and do a poll on the Colts forum and see if anyone would right now take Shanny over Pagano. Even the Pagano hater Burgurade or however you spell his name would not take Shanny.

 

 

He sounds like a product of the fantasy football generation. Volume stats are basically all some of them care about.

 

 

Good points all around. (liked above post)

So, it is only valid to point out statistics when it helps Amfootball... i see.

[amfootball]

So, it is only valid to point out statistics when it helps Amfootball... i see.

Is that you Naptown?

[thedude]

best in the game today?

 

like joe flacco was last year at this time?

 

Manning, Rodgers, Brees, brady, Roethlisberger are all without question better. far from "the best in the game"

First of all I said "one of the best in the game today?  Not "the best" as you misquoted.  And if you think all of them are currently better, it is purely your opinion.    I would say Brady is clearly on the decline and Roethlisberger peaked and is also on the decline.

 

I would much rather have a QB like Wilson who is clearly on the upswing versus a QB who is on the decline.

 

And if you can't seem to admit that Wilson is indeed one of the best QB's today, you have a bias which is clouding your view.

[thedude]

the fact that he is banned now

He's banned because of his opinion on a QB?  Are you sure about that?  I think there's another reason.