Fa

[dn4192]

How about pausing the sarcasm long enough to notice that the Colts brought in four vet free agents this year, and it's hardly the first time. They just do it intelligently based on salary cap space.

Many people make it sound as if the Colts are being cheap, when actually they are at the cap every year. You can only spend so much - the question is where are you going to spend it? Do you like Manning, Adaii, Clark, Wayne, Freeney, Mathis, etal? Sign someone else, and lose the Colt of your choice. The grass isn't always greener.

By the time someone reaches free agency they have usually peaked athletically, and football players often have very short careers. If you are lucky they will maintain that level for a few years, but often they drop like a stone - or don't fit into the new teams scheme. Yet they are looking for a lifetime payoff based on the benefit they have already provided to their old team when their salary was a bargain. Buying into that is a recipe for disaster, as evidenced by teams like the Redskins. They have an utterly moronic front office. The Colts have a terrific front office. I'm constantly baffled by those who can't recognize the difference.

the colts use FA, just not to the taste of Joe Fan who wants big names brought in. What Joe Fan doesn't grasp is that the Colts are limited in whom they can bring in due to their position via the salary cap. You can't bring in what you can not afford.

[dn4192]

How do you explain the current state of our team right now then?

1. Loss of Peyton which the entire frachise structure was built off of.

2. Poor defensive schemes when your offense isn't producing like you planned for it to.

3. Poor draft picks in some key positions

4. Injuires and age impacting other key positions.

[mahagga73]

1. Loss of Peyton which the entire frachise structure was built off of.

2. Poor defensive schemes when your offense isn't producing like you planned for it to.

3. Poor draft picks in some key positions

4. Injuires and age impacting other key positions.

Lackof NFL Talent would be number 1

[dn4192]

Lackof NFL Talent would be number 1

I would agree we are lacking of good quality talent in some positions, but this overall view that the franchise as a whole is lacking of good NFL talent isn't supported by the numbers over the past 3-4 seasons. 2-3 key position upgrades on this roster and it is a 8-9 win team.

[deedub75]

1. Loss of Peyton which the entire frachise structure was built off of.

2. Poor defensive schemes when your offense isn't producing like you planned for it to.

3. Poor draft picks in some key positions

4. Injuires and age impacting other key positions.

1 through 4 = Polian's fault

1. Polian had no decent backup for Peyton.

2. Polian hired poor coaches who only know how to coach one scheme and don't know how to adjust when things don't work or if players go down.

3. Duh, all Polian on this one.

4. Polian kept injured and aging players on the team when they should have been shown the door.

[MAC]

Pats have same problem. They won the SBs when their QB was a bargain, and all their money was invested in a superb veteran defense. What have they done lately? They are probably as dependent on Brady right now as the Colts are on Peyton. Their defense is young and below average, and their offensive weapons aren't all that special other than Welker. People are holding them up as an example because they signed Ochocinco and Hayneworth, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that the Pats regret both (despite neither being paid like superstars at this point).

And with perfect timing, Hayneworth is no longer a Patriot, somewhat confirming my point.

There were a lot of people complaining in the preseason that the Colts didn't sign him. Just because the Patriots do something, it doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do. They have a great coach, but some peoples comments give them a little bit too much respect in total. Their signed of Haynesworth probably wasn't a shrewd "ahead of the curve" move, but rather a gamble because they needed a hole filled. Considering Haynesworths history, this outcome shouldn't surprise anyone - in particular the FO of the Colts who wouldn't have bothered with him in the first place.

[BOTT]

1. Loss of Peyton which the entire frachise structure was built off of.

2. Poor defensive schemes when your offense isn't producing like you planned for it to.

3. Poor draft picks in some key positions

4. Injuires and age impacting other key positions.

#1 is getting sooo old. i'm waiting for fans to make a connection between the poor special teams play and peyton. maybe something like "the special teams is built to play with the lead." the reason the teams sucks, other than peyton getting injured, is poor drafting, poor salary cap management, injuries, and a below average coaching staff.

[BOTT]

And with perfect timing, Hayneworth is no longer a Patriot, somewhat confirming my point.

There were a lot of people complaining in the preseason that the Colts didn't sign him. Just because the Patriots do something, it doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do. They have a great coach, but some peoples comments give them a little bit too much respect in total. Their signed of Haynesworth probably wasn't a shrewd "ahead of the curve" move, but rather a gamble because they needed a hole filled. Considering Haynesworths history, this outcome shouldn't surprise anyone - in particular the FO of the Colts who wouldn't have bothered with him in the first place.

i still think it was worth a gamble for the pats. it didn't work out and they cut him...no biggie.

[dn4192]

1 through 4 = Polian's fault

1. Polian had no decent backup for Peyton.

2. Polian hired poor coaches who only know how to coach one scheme and don't know how to adjust when things don't work or if players go down.

3. Duh, all Polian on this one.

4. Polian kept injured and aging players on the team when they should have been shown the door.

1. There was no money in the budget to have a "decent" backup. Our starting QB is eating up alot of cap space

2. You have no idea what our coaches can or can not coach.

3. Outside of Bob Sanders, which player did Polian carry to long?

[dn4192]

And with perfect timing, Hayneworth is no longer a Patriot, somewhat confirming my point.

There were a lot of people complaining in the preseason that the Colts didn't sign him. Just because the Patriots do something, it doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do. They have a great coach, but some peoples comments give them a little bit too much respect in total. Their signed of Haynesworth probably wasn't a shrewd "ahead of the curve" move, but rather a gamble because they needed a hole filled. Considering Haynesworths history, this outcome shouldn't surprise anyone - in particular the FO of the Colts who wouldn't have bothered with him in the first place.

If Bill is such a great coach how come the 5-3 this season, have one of the worse defenses in the league and a mearly somewhat average offense? Could it be the Pats won tose 3 SB because Bill got lucky with some calls a very good kicker and a heck of a QB?

[dn4192]

#1 is getting sooo old. i'm waiting for fans to make a connection between the poor special teams play and peyton. maybe something like "the special teams is built to play with the lead." the reason the teams sucks, other than peyton getting injured, is poor drafting, poor salary cap management, injuries, and a below average coaching staff.

I agree, I would never paid Manning what they did in his 2nd contract. After the rookie deal they should have let him go, used the monies on other things and just drafted another QB. Also there was no reason to give such big deals to Freeney or Clark or some others. this is where I agree, Bill Polian was just wrong in keeping those talented players around for such outragous and cap strangling contracts.

[dn4192]

i still think it was worth a gamble for the pats. it didn't work out and they cut him...no biggie.

I guess, I mean just because he wasted a roster spot and was paid money and didn't contribute...no biggie...like the colts signing that other QB at the start of the season, played in a couple games then was put on IR...no biggie...

[deedub75]

1. There was no money in the budget to have a "decent" backup. Our starting QB is eating up alot of cap space

2. You have no idea what our coaches can or can not coach.

3. Outside of Bob Sanders, which player did Polian carry to long?

Wow, no money for a decent backup but we had $4M laying around to pay Kerry Collins to get out of his rocking chair?

The team's performance and a whopping 0-9 record clearly shows that the coaches can't coach.

Addai and Gonzalez are a couple that should hve been shown the door. Bob Sanders is a big one. Harrison shouldn't have been signed to his last contract. I'm sure that I can find others.

[buccolts]

If Bill is such a great coach how come the 5-3 this season, have one of the worse defenses in the league and a mearly somewhat average offense? Could it be the Pats won tose 3 SB because Bill got lucky with some calls a very good kicker and a heck of a QB?

When the Pats went 18-1 Bill was a great coach.

When they won, what, 3 SBs in 4 years, Bill was a great coach.

This year he's a good coach.

If they win 14 games next year he'll be a great coach.

and on, and on, and on.

Fact of the matter is..... overall he's a really good coach.

You just can't win 'em all every year. See 2011 Colts.

[deedub75]

When the Pats went 18-1 Bill was a great coach.

When they won, what, 3 SBs in 4 years, Bill was a great coach.

This year he's a good coach.

If they win 14 games next year he'll be a great coach.

and on, and on, and on.

Fact of the matter is..... overall he's a really good coach.

You just can't win 'em all every year. See 2011 Colts.

He is very consistent and definately an HOF candidate. They will rebound this year because he is a good coach and he makes adjustments. The Colts continue doing the same thing every week hoping their fortunes will change. The Colts would have held on to Haynesworth or somehow IR'd him because Polian wouldn't want to admit that he actually can make a mistake.

[dn4192]

When the Pats went 18-1 Bill was a great coach.

When they won, what, 3 SBs in 4 years, Bill was a great coach.

This year he's a good coach.

If they win 14 games next year he'll be a great coach.

and on, and on, and on.

Fact of the matter is..... overall he's a really good coach.

You just can't win 'em all every year. See 2011 Colts.

Was he a great coach that went 18-1 but got out coached in the superbowl? How does a great coach get outcoached by Tom Coughlin who at times has been almost fired due to issues with his players?

Since winning those 3 SB, how have the Pats done in the playoffs?

Is Bill a good "coach" or did he just get lucky a few times in the draft and have some really good/great players on his roster for a while?

[dn4192]

He is very consistent and definately an HOF candidate. They will rebound this year because he is a good coach and he makes adjustments. The Colts continue doing the same thing every week hoping their fortunes will change. The Colts would have held on to Haynesworth or somehow IR'd him because Polian wouldn't want to admit that he actually can make a mistake.

The Pats are 5-3? Their defense which HE built is one of the worse in the NFL. His offense isn't anything great this year and what has happen to Chad? I mean in Cincy he produced at least...what has happen to him in NE?

[dn4192]

Wow, no money for a decent backup but we had $4M laying around to pay Kerry Collins to get out of his rocking chair?

The team's performance and a whopping 0-9 record clearly shows that the coaches can't coach.

Addai and Gonzalez are a couple that should hve been shown the door. Bob Sanders is a big one. Harrison shouldn't have been signed to his last contract. I'm sure that I can find others.

Okay what decent backup was out on the market? I mean I waiting for the name of the QB on the market that was good? There were none and proof of that is the Raiders willing to give away 2 draft picks on a QB who had not played in over a season plus and has had major injury to his leg. If there was even a decent QB out there don't you think they would have tried that first?

[dn4192]

Wow, no money for a decent backup but we had $4M laying around to pay Kerry Collins to get out of his rocking chair?

The team's performance and a whopping 0-9 record clearly shows that the coaches can't coach.

Addai and Gonzalez are a couple that should hve been shown the door. Bob Sanders is a big one. Harrison shouldn't have been signed to his last contract. I'm sure that I can find others.

Why should Addai been shown the door? As for Gonzalez, he isn't making much and when healthy produced. I agree we waited to long on Sanders, but when you have a Defensive POTY you are going to wait a bit longer before cutting ties. So if record determins coaching ability, how is it that the Pats are only 5-3. I mean they are suppose to have one of the best coaches around and they are only 5-3? What about the Eagles...OMG show Andy Reid the door, they went out got all that talent and look at them they are like what 3-6?

[deedub75]

Why should Addai been shown the door? As for Gonzalez, he isn't making much and when healthy produced. I agree we waited to long on Sanders, but when you have a Defensive POTY you are going to wait a bit longer before cutting ties. So if record determins coaching ability, how is it that the Pats are only 5-3. I mean they are suppose to have one of the best coaches around and they are only 5-3? What about the Eagles...OMG show Andy Reid the door, they went out got all that talent and look at them they are like what 3-6?

Addai is not a prototypical running back. He is more known for his blocking than running abilities. Addai is not worth his contract. When has Gonzalez been healthy? I would argue that without Bill the Pats would be sitting on 2 or 3 wins right now. Just imagine if Caldwell was their coach. The Pats are not as good as they used to be I agree but they are 5-3 instead of 2-6 or 3-5 because they have a good coach.

[dn4192]

Addai is not a prototypical running back. He is more known for his blocking than running abilities. Addai is not worth his contract. When has Gonzalez been healthy? I would argue that without Bill the Pats would be sitting on 2 or 3 wins right now. Just imagine if Caldwell was their coach. The Pats are not as good as they used to be I agree but they are 5-3 instead of 2-6 or 3-5 because they have a good coach.

And given the offensive system we run Addai is perfect for that, plus he is great catching passes out of the backfield which not all RB are. You are right Gonzo has had continual health issues, but again at very little salary cap cost to the team. Since BB is in charge of the Pats, who they draft and such, how come they have fallen? Also do you really believe Bill is worth 3 wins for them so far this season?

[deedub75]

Okay what decent backup was out on the market? I mean I waiting for the name of the QB on the market that was good? There were none and proof of that is the Raiders willing to give away 2 draft picks on a QB who had not played in over a season plus and has had major injury to his leg. If there was even a decent QB out there don't you think they would have tried that first?

They should have drafted Ryan Mallett and developed him as Manning's heir. He was first round material who dropped due to questions about off field issues but he would have been worth the risk. The FO seemed to be the only ones who didn't realize the season was lost when Manning had his 3rd surgery. Painter should have been the starter from week one instead of wasting money on Collins. There is no way that paying Collins $4M was the best option they could come up with. Mysteriously, Collins ends up on the IR so Polian can save face as usual so he doesn't have to admit to making a mistake.

[deedub75]

And given the offensive system we run Addai is perfect for that, plus he is great catching passes out of the backfield which not all RB are. You are right Gonzo has had continual health issues, but again at very little salary cap cost to the team. Since BB is in charge of the Pats, who they draft and such, how come they have fallen? Also do you really believe Bill is worth 3 wins for them so far this season?

I questioned the fact that they let Faulk and Edge go but they keep Addai? Doesn't make any sense.

[dn4192]

They should have drafted Ryan Mallett and developed him as Manning's heir. He was first round material who dropped due to questions about off field issues but he would have been worth the risk. The FO seemed to be the only ones who didn't realize the season was lost when Manning had his 3rd surgery. Painter should have been the starter from week one instead of wasting money on Collins. There is no way that paying Collins $4M was the best option they could come up with. Mysteriously, Collins ends up on the IR so Polian can save face as usual so he doesn't have to admit to making a mistake.

Why would you draft Ryan Mallett back in the draft? At that time there was no one indication that Peyton wouldn't be able to play this entire season. Also there is a reason Mallett dropped in the draft. Again...you wanted them to pick up a better FA once we knew Peyton couldn't go....whom?

[dn4192]

I questioned the fact that they let Faulk and Edge go but they keep Addai? Doesn't make any sense.

Faulk wanted to much money, Edge was on the downside of his career at that point.

[deedub75]

Why would you draft Ryan Mallett back in the draft? At that time there was no one indication that Peyton wouldn't be able to play this entire season. Also there is a reason Mallett dropped in the draft. Again...you wanted them to pick up a better FA once we knew Peyton couldn't go....whom?

I didn't necessarily want them to pick up a FA QB because I didn't feel it would be needed. Putting any QB less than Manning in this offense with our special teams and defense and expecting him to win games in crazy. The season was lost when Peyton said he was having nerve regeneration issues. Painter was adequate enough for a terrible season. Signing Collins was just plain stupid and a big waste of money. And drafting Mallett would be for a future QB and nothing to do with Peyton.

[dn4192]

I didn't necessarily want them to pick up a FA QB because I didn't feel it would be needed. Putting any QB less than Manning in this offense with our special teams and defense and expecting him to win games in crazy. The season was lost when Peyton said he was having nerve regeneration issues. Painter was adequate enough for a terrible season. Signing Collins was just plain stupid and a big waste of money. And drafting Mallett would be for a future QB and nothing to do with Peyton.

So you would have rather had the Colts take Mallett over the tackle we got from Boston College?

[BOTT]

I agree, I would never paid Manning what they did in his 2nd contract. After the rookie deal they should have let him go, used the monies on other things and just drafted another QB. Also there was no reason to give such big deals to Freeney or Clark or some others. this is where I agree, Bill Polian was just wrong in keeping those talented players around for such outragous and cap strangling contracts.

oh wow, was that your attempt at sarcasm?? oh stop my stomach is hurts from the laughter!! you're right, clearly i was talking about manning...

how about edge, brackett, hayden, sanders, addai, bullit....heck go back to the awful contract he gave tyrone poole. and you are correct he did overpay dallas clark...he never deserved to be the highest paid te in the league.

Edited November 9, 2011 by BLOODontheTRACKS

[BOTT]

I guess, I mean just because he wasted a roster spot and was paid money and didn't contribute...no biggie...like the colts signing that other QB at the start of the season, played in a couple games then was put on IR...no biggie...

there's a difference.....fat albert actually had an upside. and who cares about collins? wasn't my 4m dollars.

[BOTT]

Faulk wanted to much money, Edge was on the downside of his career at that point.

and addai is injury prone...

[deedub75]

So you would have rather had the Colts take Mallett over the tackle we got from Boston College?

No, Mallett went in the 3rd round so I guess we would have had to pass on Nevis. Mallett was considered first round talent though who dropped due to off field.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Okay what decent backup was out on the market? I mean I waiting for the name of the QB on the market that was good? There were none and proof of that is the Raiders willing to give away 2 draft picks on a QB who had not played in over a season plus and has had major injury to his leg. If there was even a decent QB out there don't you think they would have tried that first?

they did look long and hard for an undrafted qb to match our other undrafted players

[doogansquest]

@MAC: You have had the most intelligent, well thought-out posts in this thread. I apologize that no one has been able to accept reason, and compare it to their own. Instead, you are being flamed, criticized, and screamed at by people who just can't be reasoned with.

Unreasonable to make the playoffs? Perhaps. How about win a game? Is that unreasonable too?

You mentioned the Pats, they lost Brady several seasons ago, I guess I missed it when they went 0-16, or even 0-9.

The Patriots still had the remnants of their Super Bowl team in 2008. After that, most of the players left or retired, and they have yet to win a playoff game since, even with Brady.

How do you explain that?

The Colts playoff record has been better than the Patriots since 2006. How do you explain that?

We've beaten them into the ground in the head-to-head since then too. How do you explain that?

Yes, we are bad this year. But the youth we injected into the team (Castonzo, Ijalana, and Nevis) all suffered extensive injuries. That can't be predicted, and it happens to every team. They were all playing well, however, and will likely improve. Delone Carter has also been a tremendous bright spot.

I notice that no one seems to mention how improved our running game is. We have shuffled new linemen all year, and have been without Addai for a stretch, yet we're getting 4.4 yards per carry without Peyton to draw attention away from them. That says something about coaching, and personnel acquisitions/draft picks. They have addressed the run game. It's not an overnight process. No team fixes a weakness overnight; they try to hide them until they can be fixed.

There's also no replacement for Peyton Manning. The offense was built around him, and it was successful. It's easy to say, "we should have built a well-rounded system instead," but then it may not have had as much success.

[MAC]

@MAC: You have had the most intelligent, well thought-out posts in this thread. I apologize that no one has been able to accept reason, and compare it to their own. Instead, you are being flamed, criticized, and screamed at by people who just can't be reasoned with.

Thanks for taking the time. It gets a little lonely sometimes trying to insert logic where it isn't welcome.

[deedub75]

Thanks for taking the time. It gets a little lonely sometimes trying to insert logic where it isn't welcome.

This is an opinionated board. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Just because you think you're being logical doesn't necessarily mean you are. There are vaild arguments to either side and no one on here is right. It is arrogant for you to think that just because you say something it's logical.

[Jaric]

I notice that no one seems to mention how improved our running game is. We have shuffled new linemen all year, and have been without Addai for a stretch, yet we're getting 4.4 yards per carry without Peyton to draw attention away from them. That says something about coaching, and personnel acquisitions/draft picks. They have addressed the run game. It's not an overnight process. No team fixes a weakness overnight; they try to hide them until they can be fixed.

Well, first off they're ranked 23rd overall, so while I suppose that's an improvement over being 32nd it's not exactly cause for celebration just yet. What concerns me about it, and I mentioned this to MAC in another thread, is how much of that comes from us running the ball at the end of some blowouts where teams are keying in on just the pass? Like the 150 yards we got in the Saints game.

It's gotten better. I'm just not sold on how much better yet.

[deedub75]

Well, first off they're ranked 23rd overall, so while I suppose that's an improvement over being 32nd it's not exactly cause for celebration just yet. What concerns me about it, and I mentioned this to MAC in another thread, is how much of that comes from us running the ball at the end of some blowouts where teams are keying in on just the pass? Like the 150 yards we got in the Saints game.

It's gotten better. I'm just not sold on how much better yet.

I think most teams that play us are selling out on the run and focusing more on the pass. Our run game is not good enough to win a game by itself and teams know we will have to throw it sooner or later and well, we have Painter back there and he is the king of sack fumbles and the turf is his go to receiver.

[Jaric]

I think most teams that play us are selling out on the run and focusing more on the pass. Our run game is not good enough to win a game by itself and teams know we will have to throw it sooner or later and well, we have Painter back there and he is the king of sack fumbles and the turf is his go to receiver.

Overall I'm not sure. I know recently the games have gotten out of control so quickly that teams were probably more than willing to let us run the ball. It kept the clock moving and worked in their favor. Not saying we should be blotting out the lights with footballs, but it's just hard to get a read on where the running game really is considering how lopsided things are right now.

In other words, I'm not sure if the numbers are up because we're better, or if it's just situational factors. Like when our passing defense had really good numbers, but I assumed it was because teams could run at will so there was no reason to pass.

[buccolts]

This is an opinionated board. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Just because you think you're being logical doesn't necessarily mean you are. There are vaild arguments to either side and no one on here is right. It is arrogant for you to think that just because you say something it's logical.

That makes me arrogant, as I think MAC is being logical also.

You're right there is no convincing the other side, regardless of what side you're on.

The problem is the whole 'everything must change, and it must change now so I'll feel better about myself' attitudes lately.

This isnt' the end of the world (that's next year ).

I know there are things wrong with this team, and bad decisions have been made.

Right now we (fans) seem to be stuck on the whole 'one man's explanation is another man's excuse', and 'someone must pay now' stuff.

[buccolts]

Was he a great coach that went 18-1 but got out coached in the superbowl? How does a great coach get outcoached by Tom Coughlin who at times has been almost fired due to issues with his players?

Since winning those 3 SB, how have the Pats done in the playoffs?

Is Bill a good "coach" or did he just get lucky a few times in the draft and have some really good/great players on his roster for a while?

My only point was that we're all susceptible to being fickle, and that overall I think he IS a very good coach. Not great. Not bad.