Question about 3-4 linebackers

[Coltscrazy]

I admit I don't know the roles 3-4 linebackers are supposed to play.

 

I'll start with ILB.  How much coverage ability do they need?  Very few in the draft can be thumper run stoppers and active coverage backers.  The only ILB who is said to have any real cover skills is Yawin Smallwood.  When he is described, it is as an active linebacker with range.  This is great, but do 3-4 ILB have to be thumpers?  After the NE game, I wanted a thumper.  How much does this thumper need to cover?  Borland from Wisconsin, Shayne Skov, and Burroughs from Michigan State are all elite thumpers, but they shouldn't run with a TE  down the field.  Is that their job?  If they can fill and blitz, how much coverage ability do they need?  Who plays ILB on 3rd and 3, and 4. 

 

I have kind of the same question on the OLB.  Many on the board are saying we only rush one OLB at a time.  At the same time, we have trouble applying presure and we wish Walden was a little better at blitzing.  Do we need two quality rushers at OLB?  And again coverage issues come up.  Who exactly do OLB have to cover in a 3-4.  How much linebacker skills do they need?  An example would be Marcus Smith from Loisville.  He is an elite rusher, but USA today says he can't change direction very well.  Do you want a rush only guy?  Chris Smith is a decent rusher, who has more linebacker movement skills.  He isn't great at anything, but he can do more than one thing.  When I think of OLB in a 3-4, I think about Vrabel from NE.  He wan't an elite rusher, but he could make an impact in a lot of ways and he could cover.  It seems all those old NE linbackers could cover really well.  Sorry I kind of rambled, but how much pressure is from the scheme, and what are the coverage responsibilites?  Thanks.

 

 

 

 

[chad72]

This should help you:

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/5/6/1460598/examining-lb-job-responsibilities

[Coltscrazy]

Thanks chad72, that was a great read. 

 

Both OLB have to set edge and cover TE.

one MLB is a true thumper with little coverage responsibilities

the other MLB has to be the active backer with range and coverage ability.

 

We are not that bad at OLB.  Mathis is elite, and Walden can definately handle the TE and the run.  Not sure where Werner fits.  I just can't see him being responsible for TE.

 

ILB is a mess.  We don't have a thumper or a range rover.  is Jackson the instinctive movement guy?  People say Freeman is decent, but not great in coverage.  We dont really have a thumper.

 

I'd love Chris Smith opposite Mathis.  He might be able to handle a TE.

It sounds like Smallwood would be the ultimate range ILB.

I'd go for Borland as the thumper.

 

It sounds like most of the rush actually comes from the scheme. 

My thoughts are the OLB basically have to be 1rst round draft picks.  Finding edge setters who can cover today's TE seems extremely rare.  The coverage MLB could be a 2nd or thrid round pick.  The thumper sounds more like a 4th of 5th round guy.

[Coltscrazy]

Smallwood would be perfect as the active cover ILB.  I'd take him in the second.  Chris Smith might last to the third.

2.  Yawin Smallwood

3.  Chris Smith

 

Mathis  Thumper?  Smallwood  Smith

[chad72]

D'Qwell Jackson is a better cover ILB than thumper, from all that I am hearing.

 

Freeman is supposed to be our thumper. I think Freeman sometimes thinks he has to do too much but when he just sticks to what he does best, which is disrupt at the line of scrimmage, he does well. I feel he can be the thumper we need if both ILBs hit their gaps right.

[Naptown Lifer]

Smallwood would be perfect as the active cover ILB.  I'd take him in the second.  Chris Smith might last to the third.

2.  Yawin Smallwood

3.  Chris Smith

 

Mathis  Thumper?  Smallwood  Smith

we could grab smallwood in the later rounds. his stock really fell after the combine

[gacker65]

I would look at Jordan Zumwalt in the 3rd round.  Is a OLB/ILB.  Is solid against run and can cover.

[Defjamz26]

Now you understand why our defense is in such shambles. When executed correctly, the 3-4 is the superior scheme in most people's eyes. But we have like the worst execution of the 3-4 I've seen. We have Werner who no one is sure what he's supposed to be, Sam or a Rush OLB. We are not sure what our ILB's do. Plus we run hybrid fronts when we don't even have our base defense established. Should have stuck with a 4-3. Most of the people we have our better suited for the 4-3 anyways.

[CardiacColts]

Now you understand why our defense is in such shambles. When executed correctly, the 3-4 is the superior scheme in most people's eyes. But we have like the worst execution of the 3-4 I've seen. We have Werner who no one is sure what he's supposed to be, Sam or a Rush OLB. We are not sure what our ILB's do. Plus we run hybrid fronts when we don't even have our base defense established. Should have stuck with a 4-3. Most of the people we have our better suited for the 4-3 anyways.

I felt that way last year; however, I really feel that we are beginning to get the right personnel into place. D'Qwell provides a definite upgrade in coverage and should provide adequate run support next to Freeman. I also maintain faith that Henoc Muamba will contribute as a thumper in the rotation. I am far more confident in the trenches with Art Jones joining the party. Mathis will continue to wreak havoc off the edge with Werner hopefully showing development in his transition. Walden, while indeed overpaid, did a decent job setting the edge. He gets lost in coverage at times, but should be a decent start again for now. I'm hoping Jones helps escalate walden's play by having more of an impact at the point of attack. I love our press man scheme. There is nothing you could pay me to want to go back to watching our Tampa 2 "soft" 10 yards off the receiver coverage. I pulled my hair out getting dink and dunked on all day. I like our new D. Far more mean and gritty. In the end, let's be patient and BUILD THE MONSTER!

[DougDew]

 

Both OLB have to set edge and cover TE.

 

 

The problem is that it is very difficult to find a player who is both strong enough to set the edge, but quick and agile enough to stay with a modern TE.  I've seen Walden set the edge, and also pressure the quarterback.  I've never seen him running downfield chasing a TE.  He may have...I'm just saying that I never saw it. 

 

Offenses and defenses evolve.  I think the OLB used to cover TE's like Ken Dilger, who both blocked and caught, but were slower runners.  And that's why teams then rostered guys like Marcus Pollard, Dallas Clark, and Gronkowski.

 

To expect a player to be big enough to hold the edge but stay up with those kind of TE's is just unrealistic, unless a team is drafting in the top 15 of round 1.  Maybe OLB's should really just drop into a zone and use height and wingspan to disrupt passing lanes, and have the scheme adjust.  Perhaps the coverage ILB picks up the player leaving the zone and runs downfield with the TE, or the SS crashes the zone.  OLB's are atleast 6'3 250.  Coverage ILB's are smaller, IMO

 

Perhaps when those nonblocking TE's are going to leave the OLB alone to streak downfield, it creates the ability of the OLB to sack the QB...which makes pass rushing skills more important than coverage skills..  Again....I've never seen Walden being asked to run with those TE's.

 

I think this is why good pass catching TE's are so hard to defend and are becoming worthy of higher draft picks.  The scheme's just makes it difficult for an OLB to be equally good in run support and coverage, IMO.

[DougDew]

Now you understand why our defense is in such shambles. When executed correctly, the 3-4 is the superior scheme in most people's eyes. But we have like the worst execution of the 3-4 I've seen. We have Werner who no one is sure what he's supposed to be, Sam or a Rush OLB. We are not sure what our ILB's do. Plus we run hybrid fronts when we don't even have our base defense established. Should have stuck with a 4-3. Most of the people we have our better suited for the 4-3 anyways.

 

As much as Werner and Mathis may not be ideal fits, neither is Freeman.  He's not a thumper, but can't cover well either.  Trade him to a 43 team for a first round pick this year and use McNary as our thumper and draft Borland in the 5th.

[Defjamz26]

As much as Werner and Mathis may not be ideal fits, neither is Freeman.  He's not a thumper, but can't cover well either.  Trade him to a 43 team for a first round pick this year and use McNary as our thumper and draft Borland in the 5th.

 

I'd be okay with that.  Anything to get a base defense established with people who actually fit.

[chad72]

As much as Werner and Mathis may not be ideal fits, neither is Freeman.  He's not a thumper, but can't cover well either.  Trade him to a 4-3 team for a first round pick this year and use McNary as our thumper and draft Borland in the 5th.

 

That is not happening. If I can get a 4th rounder for Freeman, I'd be happy.

[DougDew]

That is not happening. If I can get a 4th rounder for Freeman, I'd be happy.

 Hence my little hand waver.  I said that cuz I didn't want to get into a discussion about Freeman. 

 

But considering we have to re-sign him next year, I would take that 4th now.  If we have to sign him or another LB to fill the ILB position next to DQ next year, I prefer one that can meet the RB at the LOS better than Freeman.