Manning's Intense Preparation Puts Teammates on Edge

[sweetsurrender]

Really?  Youre going by QBR?  omg, i cant take anything you say from now on with any kind of seriousness.

 

34/49  (69.4% completion percentage)

280 yards

1 TD

2 Int.

 

 

Now take into account, 1 INT was from it being blocked, or rather his arm being blocked.  Then take into account all the drops his receivers had.  His seasonal completion percentage is 68.3%

 

Going by the QBR you'd think thats the reason why they lost, when in fact, he was the only reason they even scored or had a chance. The 2nd int that was because his arm was blocked is the only reason that his passer rating is low. Otherwise it would have been up in the 90's like his game against SD. 

 

Please, come back with something more intelligent than QBR.  ESPN's joke of a stat.

True, Manning's QBR was probably too high in reality.

 

Do you realize that Manning did not have one game all season in which he threw 1 TD to 2 picks? In addition his 280 yards of which most came in garbage time when Seattle took its foot off the peddle is his third lowest total of the season - the other two being the Pats game in which he threw for 150 as Moreno ran the ball 50 times in the cold and wind and the Oakland game where he threw for 266 but did not play the second half. This game was by far his worst of the year and it is not even debatable. He did not get one first down until the second quarter and did not score his only points of the game until the end of the third quarter.

[oldunclemark]

I never saw any quotes where they said they were afraid of him. He held them accountable like all the greats do but I get the sense with Peyton that football is all he ever thinks about and can't just let it go and be one of the guys. The "always on" factor wears on his teammates is a better way of putting it. At least that is how I read the article.

That is exactly how Jordan was...times 2..... .Mike was obcessed with the game.....he lived and breathed basketball by his own admission...

 

Word is Peyton has lightened up in the last couple of years .....none of his teammates are physically afraid of him..

 

they're afraid of making mistakes around him. and that's exactly what it was with Jordan......who was never 'one of the guys' 

 

Kobe Bryant is like that, too.....Stories that he intimidates and berates teammates are legend....

 

     Its hard to go hard enough to win all the time....you have to be pushed.....I have no doubt Brady and Manning push their teammates like a rented mule

[Narcosys]

True, Manning's QBR was probably too high in reality.

 

Do you realize that Manning did not have one game all season in which he threw 1 TD to 2 picks? In addition his 280 yards of which most came in garbage time when Seattle took its foot off the peddle is his third lowest total of the season - the other two being the Pats game in which he threw for 150 as Moreno ran the ball 50 times in the cold and wind and the Oakland game where he threw for 266 but did not play the second half. This game was by far his worst of the year and it is not even debatable. He did not get one first down until the second quarter and did not score his only points of the game until the end of the third quarter.

 

 

You can chalk that up to Seattle playing excellent D.  I never said they didnt.  But the way you presented things came off as it was more all mannings fault than Seattle just playing good D.  They kept the YAC very low, played tight man coverage which lowered mannings Yards per attempt as well.  They only gave up the short yards because they had them covered and wouldnt allow them any more. 

 

To reiterate.  Seattle D's won that game, Manning did his part and got the ball to his receivers.  What they do afterwards is their job.  IE.  D. Thomas for some reason not going for the first down and instead trying to be fancy and losing yards. 

 

Manning had no control over that aspect.  Mannings numbers were on par with every other game as far as attempts and completions. 

[throwing BBZ]

His QBR for the SB was 24 which was the worst rating since Rex Grossman.

 

Rex Grossman played in a SBowl? Who was the lucky QB that went up against him? !

[Flash7]

The comparisons between Manning and Brady have no place in this thread. So what if some think Brady throws tantrums, it doesn't affect how Manning's teamsters respond to him.

The comparison of Jordan and Manning might have some similarities. Jordan was tough on his teammates, just as Manning is--demanding near perfection.

Meanwhile, Eli Manning, who is a quiet leader, has won more Super Bowls than Peyton. I don't think that Eli is the better QB, but it does tell me that NFL players respond to different types of leadership. I also think that LeBron's style of leadership--lead by example and keep it loose--is preferred over Jordan's style of leadership.

[sweetsurrender]

You can chalk that up to Seattle playing excellent D.  I never said they didnt.  But the way you presented things came off as it was more all mannings fault than Seattle just playing good D.  They kept the YAC very low, played tight man coverage which lowered mannings Yards per attempt as well.  They only gave up the short yards because they had them covered and wouldnt allow them any more. 

 

To reiterate.  Seattle D's won that game, Manning did his part and got the ball to his receivers.  What they do afterwards is their job.  IE.  D. Thomas for some reason not going for the first down and instead trying to be fancy and losing yards. 

 

Manning had no control over that aspect.  Mannings numbers were on par with every other game as far as attempts and completions. 

I never said Seattle's D did not play well or that the game was all Manning's fault. I was challenging this statement from you:

 

"His play [Manning] during the playoffs, his stats and numbers, were no different or worse than his regular season.  8/12 playoff losses were due to last minute scores by the opposing teams.  His stats during this latest SB are better than half the QB's in the league on ANY day."

 

This statement is patently untrue in regards to the Super Bowl. His stats were not on par with the regular season, they were far worse as he did not have any game when he threw 1 TD to 2 picks and he threw for this third lowest total in terms of yards which the majority were garnered in garbage time. There is no QB that would ever want to play a game, much less a SB game the way Manning did.

[chad72]

I defended Peyton to the core for the Ravens loss last year, I felt he played well enough to win last year even though he made mistakes and if not for a safety mistake, would have played Pats without Gronk again. Plus, I still believe last year was Peyton's last chance at a SB with Kaepernick and RW being 1st year QBs and a D with Von Miller and Dumervil healthy and more members across the board healthy. Ravens made the most out of that gratuitous safety play and Champ Bailey .

 

But this SB, Peyton did not even play average, missed wide open reads and chose the worst moment to play an un-Peyton like performance. I even started a thread about it. The D kept him in the game allowing only 2 FGs and spotting just an 0-8 deficit. Ample time had passed and if there was a time to start a mini-comeback, that was it.

 

Lets call a bad game spade a spade. That is all I have to say.

[JerodMayo51]

It sounds to me like Manning is a great leader and holds people accountable.  I'd take anyone like that on my team

[chad72]

It sounds to me like Manning is a great leader and holds people accountable.  I'd take anyone like that on my team

 

Yep. I just think one would be grasping for straws if they are trying to pin one SB blowout on the anal retentive (or obssessive compulsive, whichever you want to call it) work ethic of Peyton.

 

He would even make the sorry Cleveland Browns a playoff contender, as their roster sits. I am confident when I say that. The work ethic permeates and gets the most out of the ones willing to put the work in. The ones who probably don't get, chances are, they will be intimidated.

 

It may not erase the fact that he had a bad SB or expose a few limitations of Peyton's but the opinions of a bunch of non-starters may not be as significant as it is made out to be, IMO.

[thedude]

It sounds to me like Manning is a great leader and holds people accountable.  I'd take anyone like that on my team

But he is still a player. He should lead simply by example and be the leader of the offense. Let the coaches do their job.

While Manning is a great QB, he's not the second coming. To me it looks like he places himself above everyone, to include the people in charge.

[thedude]

 

He would even make the sorry Cleveland Browns a playoff contender, as their roster sits. I am confident when I say that. .

I seriously doubt that. The Super Bowl proved that no matter who you have at QB, if he is not protected and he's not mobile, he will falter. Manning is an immobile statue in the back field. He would have been brutalized had he played for the Browns. He wouldn't have made it through the season.

[Superman]

Good points. But I have never heard Jordan's teammates ever say they were afraid of him.

 

You've never heard the story about when Michael Jordan punched Steve Kerr in the face during practice?

[thedude]

You've never heard the story about when Michael Jordan punched Steve Kerr in the face during practice?

Players of every ability level in every sport get in fights in practice for a variety of reasons.

[Flash7]

There are different styles of leadership. Manning's style of leadership is by pushing his teammates to achieve their best. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

However, it depends how much and how hard Manning pushes his teammates. I think some could argue that he may push too hard which may cause tensions. I happen to agree wit this side of the argument. I base my thoughts on various interviews given by Manning's teammates who have talked about Manning's preparation and what he expects from his teammates. It's not just that he expects them to be prepared, it's to an amount that makes it such an outlier to 'normal' NFL preparation.

 

Of course, Manning is considered one of the best QBs ever. So his work ethic has paid dividends. But he has to understand that he's far from the norm and he can't expect others to rise to his level.

[Superman]

Players of every ability level in every sport get in fights in practice for a variety of reasons.

 

That's true. Just don't hold Michael Jordan up as the model of a good teammate and leader. He was a bully who dominated everyone around him. He was also the best player I've ever seen, in any sport. You take the good with the bad sometimes.

 

Same for Manning. If he's overbearing on the practice field, you just shrug your shoulders and move on, because he leads your team to 13 win seasons and record setting offensive performances.

[chad72]

I seriously doubt that. The Super Bowl proved that no matter who you have at QB, if he is not protected and he's not mobile, he will falter. Manning is an immobile statue in the back field. He would have been brutalized had he played for the Browns. He wouldn't have made it through the season.

 

Nah. If he were QB, he would be doing everything in his power to coach his OL and WRs to get on the same page regarding protections for the plays called too, that is why most OLs look better than they are with Peyton because a) he does not hold on to the ball too long and b) because he would be a stickler for everyone of his OL to be on the same page as him that chances are, it will work more often than not. Besides, the Browns have just enough offensive talent and defensive talent to compete and are a QB short of knocking on the playoff door, forget SB contender, just a playoff contender.

 

We look at only the positives of a Big Ben or Luck or Rodgers going outside the pocket but forget the flip side, which is holding on to the ball more often than not, its all about pros and cons that their coaches are willing to live with. Brady and Peyton operate differently and know their strengths and weaknesses, and some teams exploit them better than others.

 

It is not a co-incidence guys like Brady and Peyton make household names out of Patten, Branch, Tamme etc. who really haven't done much once they leave the confines of that HOF QB.

 

Yes, I always believed Peyton could use a different set of objective and unemotional eyes to guide him while playing a game. But in the practice field, if he is just as qualified as an OC to correct the mistake on the spot, he can, IMO. None of us sit in those practice sessions with a Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees. But if we all think some of those QBs don't harp on their wideouts making mistakes and sit around and wait for their coaches to correct them, we are sorely mistaken. I don't think any of those QBs got to where they are playing nice every single second with their teammates.

[sweetsurrender]

You've never heard the story about when Michael Jordan punched Steve Kerr in the face during practice?

Sure it is just that Jordan was the epitome of clutch and a champion and his teammates played hard and loose for him in the big games. The exact opposite seems to be true for Manning hence these types of articles and by extension the belief that his over bearing style makes his teammates tight.

[chad72]

Sure it is just that Jordan was the epitome of clutch and a champion and his teammates played hard and loose for him in the big games. The exact opposite seems to be true for Manning hence these types of articles and by extension the belief that his over bearing style makes his teammates tight.

 

Maybe there is something to it, maybe there isn't. But the opinions quoted here are those of 2 guys who are not starters, if you think about it, and chances are, they are riding the bench for a reason because they could not keep up with the pace of what is expected. It is a cut throat game, even within the same roster. When Ronnie fumbled 3 times in 2 games in pre-season, Peyton came to his defense saying Ronnie will be fine and get it fixed. When Ronnie fumbled in the Colts game to seal all chances of a comeback, Peyton still did not blame Ronnie. Now, Ronnie gets his 15 minutes of fame before the SB and says something (the media was going to take anything) and we are making a bigger deal out of it than it should be. That is how I see it, the more I look at it.

 

It is easier to impact the plays on more than 70% of the plays in a 5 man game like Jordan than in a 53 man game with Peyton, IMO. If anything, we need to question why Peyton played tight because the Broncos were totally dependent on him without a Plan B. Peyton and the O controlled time of possession in the Chargers and Pats game, the Broncos play well. Peyton goes pedestrian, the deck of cards crumbles.

[Superman]

Sure it is just that Jordan was the epitome of clutch and a champion and his teammates played hard and loose for him in the big games. The exact opposite seems to be true for Manning hence these types of articles and by extension the belief that his over bearing style makes his teammates tight.

 

I don't really buy it. If Manning is an overbearing cuss, he is so all the time. Everyone is fine during the regular season and through the playoffs, but then when the Super Bowl comes, Manning's intensity is the problem? No one knows how to play anymore? Nah, doesn't make sense to me. 

 

The entire Broncos team sucked in the Super Bowl, and the Seahawks played the game of their lives. I don't think it has anything to do with Manning's intensity, because I don't believe that this would suddenly be a problem in the Super Bowl, whereas it wasn't a problem any other time. I think it's pretty two-faced to praise Manning for being so well-prepared, claiming that it's one of the things that makes him great, then essentially blame his intense preparation when the team plays poorly. It's bogus.

 

Maybe Ronnie Hillman felt overwhelmed because he was one fumble away from being benched, and was dealing with pressure in other ways.

[Thewholefnshow28]

You've never heard the story about when Michael Jordan punched Steve Kerr in the face during practice?

 

I thought everyone would know that story by now.  Some of the greatest players are the most competitive to the point where it turns them into a-holes.  MJ expected nothing but excellence from his teammates and it drove him crazy that none of them could play at the level he did except for Scottie. 

 

This is what you get with the greats like this.  It should come to no surprise that Peyton is pretty much an * in practice.

[sweetsurrender]

Maybe there is something to it, maybe there isn't. But the opinions quoted here are those of 2 guys who are not starters, if you think about it, and chances are, they are riding the bench for a reason because they could not keep up with the pace of what is expected. It is a cut throat game, even within the same roster. When Ronnie fumbled 3 times in 2 games in pre-season, Peyton came to his defense saying Ronnie will be fine and get it fixed. When Ronnie fumbled in the Colts game to seal all chances of a comeback, Peyton still did not blame Ronnie. Now, Ronnie gets his 15 minutes of fame before the SB and says something (the media was going to take anything) and we are making a bigger deal out of it than it should be. That is how I see it, the more I look at it.

 

It is easier to impact the plays on more than 70% of the plays in a 5 man game like Jordan than in a 53 man game with Peyton, IMO. If anything, we need to question why Peyton played tight because the Broncos were totally dependent on him without a Plan B. Peyton and the O controlled time of possession in the Chargers and Pats game, the Broncos play well. Peyton goes pedestrian, the deck of cards crumbles.

Stokley had similar comments as well. That is why I posted the WSJ article. It seems to be a running theme. 

 

I agree though b-ball and football are not the same. I never brought up Jordan someone else did.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdOEPuVqiGo&noredirect=1

[amfootball]

I would take the over-prepared, over bearing leader over the lazy leader any day. But I do think there is probably a natural rift between the older guys that are married with kids and the younger guys. The young guys want their down time and fun while the older vets are trying to win now. Natural friction I would think.

[Superman]

Stokley had similar comments as well. That is why I posted the WSJ article. It seems to be a running theme. 

 

I agree though b-ball and football are not the same. I never brought up Jordan someone else did.

 

 

What Stokley said and what these guys are quoted as saying is very different. Stokley said that Manning can be annoying, but it's worth it. He never said that it causes him to be nervous or play tight. And it's because Stokley, while not being the most physically gifted player, was a hard working professional who did his job well. He credits Manning for getting him signed in Denver, says Manning is probably responsible for 75% of the money Stokley made in the NFL.

 

Again, take the good with the bad. If players like Hillman can't handle that level of intensity, it probably says something about their mentality. 

[sweetsurrender]

What Stokley said and what these guys are quoted as saying is very different. Stokley said that Manning can be annoying, but it's worth it. He never said that it causes him to be nervous or play tight. And it's because Stokley, while not being the most physically gifted player, was a hard working professional who did his job well. He credits Manning for getting him signed in Denver, says Manning is probably responsible for 75% of the money Stokley made in the NFL.

 

Again, take the good with the bad. If players like Hillman can't handle that level of intensity, it probably says something about their mentality. 

True and I am not sure that Hillman would not say it is worth it either to play with Manning. Or any other teammate for that matter. He has made a lot of guys very wealthy.    I was more talking about guys being tight because they find Manning to be over bearing, etc. In the end every player has to find their own way of playing their best but the QB does set a certain tone.

[thedude]

That's true. Just don't hold Michael Jordan up as the model of a good teammate and leader..

I didn't, nor would I.

[Narcosys]

I never said Seattle's D did not play well or that the game was all Manning's fault. I was challenging this statement from you:

 

"His play [Manning] during the playoffs, his stats and numbers, were no different or worse than his regular season.  8/12 playoff losses were due to last minute scores by the opposing teams.  His stats during this latest SB are better than half the QB's in the league on ANY day."

 

This statement is patently untrue in regards to the Super Bowl. His stats were not on par with the regular season, they were far worse as he did not have any game when he threw 1 TD to 2 picks and he threw for this third lowest total in terms of yards which the majority were garnered in garbage time. There is no QB that would ever want to play a game, much less a SB game the way Manning did.

 

And again.  That is because Seattles D STOPPED the receivers as soon as they caught it.  Again, that is not mannings fault.  Any QB would want a game where they 34/49, and that number should have been higher.  You have QB's who throw half that amount of completions all the time.  He made the throws, his receivers didnt make the moves.  Nor could they get open down field.  Again, not Mannings fault. 

 

He did not have a game where he threw two INT and 1 TD, but i dont count one as his fault.  This logic applies, for me, to all QB's.  I know they go down in stats as an INT, but if a receiver misses the ball and tips it, that is not the QB's fault and should not be a stat that goes down on him.  Unfortunately it does. 

[sweetsurrender]

And again.  That is because Seattles D STOPPED the receivers as soon as they caught it.  Again, that is not mannings fault.  Any QB would want a game where they 34/49, and that number should have been higher.  You have QB's who throw half that amount of completions all the time.  He made the throws, his receivers didnt make the moves.  Nor could they get open down field.  Again, not Mannings fault. 

 

He did not have a game where he threw two INT and 1 TD, but i dont count one as his fault.  This logic applies, for me, to all QB's.  I know they go down in stats as an INT, but if a receiver misses the ball and tips it, that is not the QB's fault and should not be a stat that goes down on him.  Unfortunately it does. 

If you want to fully credit Seattle's defense and solely blame Manning's receivers for his performance and excuse one of his INTs than that is your prerogative. Still does not change the fact that it was the worst game of the season from him in a year where he broke every offensive record.

[Narcosys]

If you want to fully credit Seattle's defense and solely blame Manning's receivers for his performance and excuse one of his INTs than that is your prerogative. Still does not change the fact that it was the worst game of the season from him in a year where he broke every offensive record.

 

 

 

Mannings performance was 34/49.  Thats nothing to scoff at.  After that, its all up in the air on who you want to blame.  You want to blame manning, i say the D held them up pretty good.  Was it the worst game of the season for the Broncos, ya.  But those 34 completions are the most completions in a game for Manning all year. Not much else you can do.   

[thedude]

but if a receiver misses the ball and tips it, that is not the QB's fault

That did not happen in the last Super Bowl. The pic six was a result of Manning being rushed. He can be faulted for forcing the throw when he should have simply taken the sack. His other int was a very poor throw completely missing an open receiver. Neither ball was tipped or the fault of the receiver. Maybe you could blame the RB for not going after e ball on the pic 6, but the ball still should not have been thrown in the first place.

[Narcosys]

That did not happen in the last Super Bowl. The pic six was a result of Manning being rushed. He can be faulted for forcing the throw when he should have simply taken the sack. His other int was a very poor throw, missing an open receiver. Neither ball was tipped or the fault of the receiver. Maybe you could blame the RB for not going after e ball on the pic 6, but the ball still should not have been thrown in the first place.

 

He couldnt have known his arm was going to get hit.  He already had his arm going forward.  Its hard to stop it when you are in full power and motion to make the throw and expect to hold on to it.  He has been rushed like that plenty of times and still made the throw. 

[thedude]

He couldnt have known his arm was going to get hit.  He already had his arm going forward. 

He was rushed and he knows he should have just taken the sack.

[thedude]

Bottom line, both pics were his fault. Neither was the result of a tipped ball.

[Narcosys]

He was rushed and he knows he should have just taken the sack.

 

Maybe in hindsight.  But not at the time. 

[thedude]

Maybe in hindsight.  But not at the time.

Well, generally people don't mistakes if they know it's a mistake as they are doing it. At least people with a functioning brain.

[sweetsurrender]

Mannings performance was 34/49.  Thats nothing to scoff at.  After that, its all up in the air on who you want to blame.  You want to blame manning, i say the D held them up pretty good.  Was it the worst game of the season for the Broncos, ya.  But those 34 completions are the most completions in a game for Manning all year. Not much else you can do.   

You do realize that the majority of those completions came when Seattle went into prevent because the game was a blow out? And 34 was not his highest total of the season for him. He threw 39 vs Tennessee and was 25 for 28 vs Oakland in just the first half. Had he played the second half he probably completes 40+ easily.

 

I am not sure why you think this was a "good" game from Manning. You are the only here or anywhere that I have seen try to make a case for him. I agree that the total loss is not on him as no one from Denver played well and Seattle's D was a beast but early in the game his defense was playing well holding Seattle to just two FGs after the safety so it was only 8-0 when it easily could have been 16-0. And then when it was 15-0 with Denver driving to score to cut the lead in half, he threw the pick six that pretty much ended the game IMO as there was no way Seattle was going to blow a 22 point lead. 

[GoPats]

Mannings performance was 34/49.  Thats nothing to scoff at.  After that, its all up in the air on who you want to blame.  You want to blame manning, i say the D held them up pretty good.  Was it the worst game of the season for the Broncos, ya.  But those 34 completions are the most completions in a game for Manning all year. Not much else you can do.   

 

I'm not a Manning basher, but I'm pretty sure even Peyton himself would tell you that his individual performance was very disappointing. The whole team played poorly, don't get me wrong, but throw the numbers out. Anyone who watched that game knew it was one of the toughest of his postseason career. 

 

That's not a knock, it happens. Even the greats don't deliver 100% of the time.

[oldunclemark]

He was rushed and he knows he should have just taken the sack.

Doesn't work that way..

 

..as a QB, you have to stand tall in the pocket and throw even if you're going to be hit

 

..all QBs get the blame for all picks....Manning is no exception..

 

......but the QB must stand and deliver under rush pressure..that's the name of the game

[thedude]

Doesn't work that way..

 

..as a QB, you have to stand tall in the pocket and throw even if you're going to be hit

 

..all QBs get the blame for all picks....Manning is no exception

......but the QB must stand and deliver under rush pressure..that's the name of the game

Knowing you are going to be hit is one thing. Knowing when to take the sack is another. Both those pics were his fault. Period.

[JerodMayo51]

You do realize that the majority of those completions came when Seattle went into prevent because the game was a blow out? And 34 was not his highest total of the season for him. He threw 39 vs Tennessee and was 25 for 28 vs Oakland in just the first half. Had he played the second half he probably completes 40+ easily.

 

I am not sure why you think this was a "good" game from Manning. You are the only here or anywhere that I have seen try to make a case for him. I agree that the total loss is not on him as no one from Denver played well and Seattle's D was a beast but early in the game his defense was playing well holding Seattle to just two FGs after the safety so it was only 8-0 when it easily could have been 16-0. And then when it was 15-0 with Denver driving to score to cut the lead in half, he threw the pick six that pretty much ended the game IMO as there was no way Seattle was going to blow a 22 point lead. 

 

To add to that, about 10 of those completions were the result of dump off screen passes.  They had less than 50 yards total offense with only a few minutes to go until half time and he started using WR/RB screen passes to sustain drives at that point.

 

Manning employed the "dink and dunk" offense that so many around here love to throw around like its a negative term.  He was dinking and dunking all game long, hence the higher completions.  Focusing on 1 stat like his attempts/completions to make an argument for how good of a game he played is kind of silly.

 

Manning played poorly, as did the rest of the team.  He is not perfect like some here like to believe.  It happens.

[thedude]

 

Manning played poorly, as did the rest of the team.  He is not perfect like some here like to believe.  It happens.

Manning did throw two pics that were completely on him, but he did not play all that poorly.