Coaching

[GoColts8818]

Im not on a vendetta against Pagano and firing him destroys everything that has been started. But there is enough evidence to see that the team is no where near the caliber they were last year when it comes to being motivated out the gate. Game plans the same who cares, the difference is one team is ready to play with energy and one is not until 14 down. Many teams in the NFL run similar schemes the difference is how prepared the teams are to execute which is a point of failure in a solely led Pagano team. To give him credit for that is absurd because you can easily see that the motivated team has followed Arians and hasnt shown up here.

Also lets right something here. I have not called for the firing of Pagano yet. I just see his shortcomings express what I see and see if anyone agrees with me. The trend lately has been that Pagano is not a NFL caliber HC. He has time to grow but he needs to make drastic changes to his idealogy and decisions which is not often seen in the coaching world.

Look at the injuries this year vs. the injuries last year.  A lot more ones and a lot more important spots.  That's the major difference. 

 

Also playing for a coach that has cancer to give him one more game is one heck of a motivating factor. 

 

This team WON it's division this year and beat some really good teams along the way to do so.  Sorry I am not buying the argument he's not a NFL caliber HC. 

 

Also you are more than free to state your opinion, never said you weren't.  I am also aloud to state mine and mine is that I don't agree with you.

[Surge89]

Look at the injuries this year vs. the injuries last year. A lot more ones and a lot more important spots. That's the major difference.

Also playing for a coach that has cancer to give him one more game is one heck of a motivating factor.

This team WON it's division this year and beat some really good teams along the way to do so. Sorry I am not buying the argument he's not a NFL caliber HC.

Also you are more than free to state your opinion, never said you weren't. I am also aloud to state mine and mine is that I don't agree with you.

Im not in anyway or shape saying you have no right to an opinion in fact I accept whatever anyone has said an just resppnded with my thought nor do I feel like I cant express... can we please stop brining that up? Not sure where that came from...

Now with that away I can understand the chuck strong mantra being a catalyst for a motivated team. But how coincidental is it that since Arians went to Arizona they are now an inspired football team and the colts are known for coming out flat? Also the injuries have an effect on the game no doubt, but when talking about Pagano im not talking about execution in the field (which in majority lies with cooridinators), but moreso on perparedness, team energy, holding players accountable, game management, roster management, and team attitude. Lots of these smaller detail are the sole purpose for a head coach too make sure the ship is moving in the proper direction with the right crew and in this regard Pagano just hasnt fit the bill. Like I said he has time to grow and change but that would require some drastic changes and you dont often see that in the coaching world.

In all of this I understand I may be wrong but history tends to show that coaches dont change and what we have seen is what we are going to get.

[BOTT]

Nobody on here knows who,is a good coach until a team consistently wins or talking heads tell you who they think is a good coach. I don't remember a lot of people singing the praises of BB after his stint in Cleveland or Pete Carroll after he bolted for college. Jimmy Johnson was considered a more-on for 3 years in Dallas until he turned things around.

[GoColts8818]

Im not in anyway or shape saying you have no right to an opinion in fact I accept whatever anyone has said an just resppnded with my thought nor do I feel like I cant express... can we please stop brining that up? Not sure where that came from...

Now with that away I can understand the chuck strong mantra being a catalyst for a motivated team. But how coincidental is it that since Arians went to Arizona they are now an inspired football team and the colts are known for coming out flat? Also the injuries have an effect on the game no doubt, but when talking about Pagano im not talking about execution in the field (which in majority lies with cooridinators), but moreso on perparedness, team energy, holding players accountable, game management, roster management, and team attitude. Lots of these smaller detail are the sole purpose for a head coach too make sure the ship is moving in the proper direction with the right crew and in this regard Pagano just hasnt fit the bill. Like I said he has time to grow and change but that would require some drastic changes and you dont often see that in the coaching world.

In all of this I understand I may be wrong but history tends to show that coaches dont change and what we have seen is what we are going to get.

I didn't say you did either.  I am just pointing out that just because you are entitled to your opinion doesn't mean people have to agree with it.  For some reason you felt the need to tell me you had a right to your opinion, something I never doubted.  My post was not made to say you didn't.  Mine was to tell you why I disagree with you.  By all means please have whatever opinion you want and share it. 

 

We didn't start the year coming out flat.  Honestly at the start of the year I mean the Raiders and Miami game it was the reverse we started fast and faded in the second half.  I think it's more telling the slow starts really started after Reggie went down.  It's clear the offense isn't working and during that time I've seen us move from trying to run to start games to trying to pass to start games and neither is working.  That tells me the issue goes beyond coaching.  This team just doesn't have the talent it had at the start of the season on the offensive side of the ball.  That's a big part of the problem.  They just don't have the depth needed to over come these injuries. 

 

It doesn't help that the defense is giving up long drive after long drive either and hardly ever gets the ball back for the offense with a short field.  Honestly till the second Titans game we hadn't had an INT since the Denver game.  With the offense crippled they need a short field if they can get one and they hardly get one. 

 

It's not just the coaches.  Have they been perfect?  No.  They have made mistakes too.  Have they made enough that they shouldn't be in the NFL?  Not even close.  If they had they wouldn't have won the division and beaten the Broncos, Seahawks, and 49ers. 

[Surge89]

Nobody on here knows who,is a good coach until a team consistently wins or talking heads tell you who they think is a good coach. I don't remember a lot of people singing the praises of BB after his stint in Cleveland or Pete Carroll after he bolted for college. Jimmy Johnson was considered a more-on for 3 years in Dallas until he turned things around.

I can see this logic. So in reality I probably should wait to judge Pagano. But those coaches you mentioned all did what I have stated above solid and often used as scapegoats for losing seasons... in our regard it isnt like we have the worst players or cooridinators (ok debatable on manusky lol) but the finer details of HC duties have been well... lackluster... so in the end I see what you are saying just watching some of the HC decisions of the past season has me on edge.

[Surge89]

I didn't say you did either.  I am just pointing out that just because you are entitled to your opinion doesn't mean people have to agree with it.  For some reason you felt the need to tell me you had a right to your opinion, something I never doubted.  My post was not made to say you didn't.  Mine was to tell you why I disagree with you.  By all means please have whatever opinion you want and share it. 

 

We didn't start the year coming out flat.  Honestly at the start of the year I mean the Raiders and Miami game it was the reverse we started fast and faded in the second half.  I think it's more telling the slow starts really started after Reggie went down.  It's clear the offense isn't working and during that time I've seen us move from trying to run to start games to trying to pass to start games and neither is working.  That tells me the issue goes beyond coaching.  This team just doesn't have the talent it had at the start of the season on the offensive side of the ball.  That's a big part of the problem.  They just don't have the depth needed to over come these injuries. 

 

It doesn't help that the defense is giving up long drive after long drive either and hardly ever gets the ball back for the offense with a short field.  Honestly till the second Titans game we hadn't had an INT since the Denver game.  With the offense crippled they need a short field if they can get one and they hardly get one. 

 

It's not just the coaches.  Have they been perfect?  No.  They have made mistakes too.  Have they made enough that they shouldn't be in the NFL?  Not even close.  If they had they wouldn't have won the division and beaten the Broncos, Seahawks, and 49ers. 

 

Ok last comment on this but I'm not sure where I mentioned I'm entitled to my opinion... I'm assuming you are referring to this

"Also lets right something here. I have not called for the firing of Pagano yet. I just see his shortcomings express what I see and see if anyone agrees with me."   

If so that is not what I said at all... I was merely stating that I'm not calling for Pagano's firing but expressing what I believe are his shortcomings... in other words clarifying so I'm not lumped into the "FIRE PAGANO" crowd

 

Again with that aside...  I think you are leaning to heavily on what is happening on the field as a direct produce of Pagano.  When talking about the competence of Pagano as a HC I do not believe that he should be graded strictly by what is going on out on the field.  (Which is dumb for owners to do also :-) )  What happens on the field will be by the will of the players and the plans of the cooridinators.  What I'm talking about are the finer details of being a HC in the NFL.  Pagano has not shown that he is what I would consider up to par on these tasks.  I wish he was but from what I have seen he has not.  My longing for a hope that he is, is why I'm continuing the conversation with you because I want you to point out something that could give me that hope.

 

You keep mentioning the offense, but I unlike many on this forum do not believe the offense is at as much fault as everyone is stating.  The fact is in context for being a rookie OC Hamilton has done exceptional and when his O was healthy they produced.  With injuries he has not adjusted, but that is understandable from an OC that is barely getting his first crack at the NFL game.  So lets bring it back to context.  I don't believe Pep is a bad coordinator in fact I love his style of ball (I just think he needs to learn some NFL ways) and I understand that injuries are a part of the game and a very big reason why the O is not performing.  So what is my issue? Pagano...  He is a defensive mind that is not helping our defense succeed and the players in general both offense and defense look just flat when they are out there...  Also I'm one of the few that thought the lack of discipline on Sheppard to be a very huge lack of coaching (that includes the coordinators).

[GoColts8818]

Ok last comment on this but I'm not sure where I mentioned I'm entitled to my opinion... I'm assuming you are referring to this

"Also lets right something here. I have not called for the firing of Pagano yet. I just see his shortcomings express what I see and see if anyone agrees with me."   

If so that is not what I said at all... I was merely stating that I'm not calling for Pagano's firing but expressing what I believe are his shortcomings... in other words clarifying so I'm not lumped into the "FIRE PAGANO" crowd

 

Again with that aside...  I think you are leaning to heavily on what is happening on the field as a direct produce of Pagano.  When talking about the competence of Pagano as a HC I do not believe that he should be graded strictly by what is going on out on the field.  (Which is dumb for owners to do also :-) )  What happens on the field will be by the will of the players and the plans of the cooridinators.  What I'm talking about are the finer details of being a HC in the NFL.  Pagano has not shown that he is what I would consider up to par on these tasks.  I wish he was but from what I have seen he has not.  My longing for a hope that he is, is why I'm continuing the conversation with you because I want you to point out something that could give me that hope.

 

You keep mentioning the offense, but I unlike many on this forum do not believe the offense is at as much fault as everyone is stating.  The fact is in context for being a rookie OC Hamilton has done exceptional and when his O was healthy they produced.  With injuries he has not adjusted, but that is understandable from an OC that is barely getting his first crack at the NFL game.  So lets bring it back to context.  I don't believe Pep is a bad coordinator in fact I love his style of ball (I just think he needs to learn some NFL ways) and I understand that injuries are a part of the game and a very big reason why the O is not performing.  So what is my issue? Pagano...  He is a defensive mind that is not helping our defense succeed and the players in general both offense and defense look just flat when they are out there...  Also I'm one of the few that thought the lack of discipline on Sheppard to be a very huge lack of coaching (that includes the coordinators).

You said you made your point to see if anyone agrees with you.  Which is fine.  I don't agree with you however and have laid our why I don't.  We disagree I'll leave it there.

[jbaron04]

McNary > Sheppard

sheppard > angerer   this guy is the worst player on the colts right now out side of satele, mcgylnn, dhb 

[lollygagger8]

sheppard > angerer   

 

Agreed. 

 

I wish Kavell Connor would quit being hurt and get out there! 

[ricker182]

Just saw SoundFX and Pagano told Rodgers after that TD to "tuck that ball away" when he's going into the endzone and not to "do that crap" where he holds the ball out. SO there's that. Pagano doesn't put up with any crap and makes it known.

[dudeski]

Just saw SoundFX and Pagano told Rodgers after that TD to "tuck that ball away" when he's going into the endzone and not to "do that crap" where he holds the ball out. SO there's that. Pagano doesn't put up with any crap and makes it known.

he puts up with horrible play and play calling just fine

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

Just saw SoundFX and Pagano told Rodgers after that TD to "tuck that ball away" when he's going into the endzone and not to "do that crap" where he holds the ball out. SO there's that. Pagano doesn't put up with any crap and makes it known.

I just saw it too. ... dhb coaches way better than he plays

[GoColts8818]

Just saw SoundFX and Pagano told Rodgers after that TD to "tuck that ball away" when he's going into the endzone and not to "do that crap" where he holds the ball out. SO there's that. Pagano doesn't put up with any crap and makes it known.

that can't be, according to the forum coaches here Pagano doesn't know how to coach and this whole winning the division thing is just a fluke. You must be mistaken. Clearly Peyton called Luck and told Luck to tell Pagano to say that.

The above is sarcasm.