Colts get serious about protecting Luck

[loudnproudcolt]

Good article about Luck, Hamilton and all the changes being made to make sure Luck does not take as many hits. I really enjoyed two things about the article. First, it explores Luck's demeanor and why it has not been a good thing on the field sometimes, and why he takes so many hits. Pep says he has the attitude of a linebacker.

 

Second, it is one of the few articles that details Luck's season, and puts into perspective why it was a great season. He looks at all the reasons from Arian's offense, the defense, to the offensive line to show why even though he only had a 54% completion percentage, it may have been one of the best performances by a Quarterback in the league. Really a nice read, and the thoughts about Luck from Pep were really interesting.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/pete-prisco/22955191/colts-get-serious-protecting-the-franchise-young-quarterback-luck

 

One more point, although this is not in the article. I watched a Luck interview on Tuesday I believe and then after they talked about the offseason and what he did with the receivers and with Christenson. I don't think we ever heard about it, but he spent time in California and Miami practicing with all the receivers. Second, he sat down with Christenson and went over every throw last year, all 627 on tape. Photographic memory should mean you see the ball getting thrown out of bounds more and being much more efficient. I thought it was really an interesting couple of points about his offseason and preparation.

[throwing BBZ]

Good article about Luck, Hamilton and all the changes being made to make sure Luck does not take as many hits. I really enjoyed two things about the article. First, it explores Luck's demeanor and why it has not been a good thing on the field sometimes, and why he takes so many hits. Pep says he has the attitude of a linebacker.

 

Second, it is one of the few articles that details Luck's season, and puts into perspective why it was a great season. He looks at all the reasons from Arian's offense, the defense, to the offensive line to show why even though he only had a 54% completion percentage, it may have been one of the best performances by a Quarterback in the league. Really a nice read, and the thoughts about Luck from Pep were really interesting.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/pete-prisco/22955191/colts-get-serious-protecting-the-franchise-young-quarterback-luck

 

One more point, although this is not in the article. I watched a Luck interview on Tuesday I believe and then after they talked about the offseason and what he did with the receivers and with Christenson. I don't think we ever heard about it, but he spent time in California and Miami practicing with all the receivers. Second, he sat down with Christenson and went over every throw last year, all 627 on tape. Photographic memory should mean you see the ball getting thrown out of bounds more and being much more efficient. I thought it was really an interesting couple of points about his offseason and preparation.

 

Andrew got plowed last year and i thought oh $*&?. He would get up, smile, and say nice hit.

He got some Jack Lambert in him.

 

Better pass blocking, better running, play action, it is going to be GOOD!

[Qwiz]

They weren't serious about protecting him before?

[GoDeep]

They weren't serious about protecting him before?

Evidently not, judging by who they had doing it.

[Björn Werner 92]

They weren't serious about protecting him before?

Honestly, it was a pretty low priority last season. There was a lot more emphasis on letting playmakers make plays.

[Qwiz]

Evidently not, judging by who they had doing it.

Yeah, true. I don't think having him running the offense that he was running helped things go any smoother either. It's good to see some dedication to trying to shore up the line this offseason, because we all know you can't keep ignoring the elephant in the room. (Or the lack of elephants on the field )

[Qwiz]

Honestly, it was a pretty low priority last season. There was a lot more emphasis on letting playmakers make plays.

Yeah, if I'm not mistaken the only guys brought in last year were Satele and McGlynn for the o-line. I guess the coaches put too much faith in it and only realized the horror once the season started. I agree with you, having Hilton and Wayne making plays on offense and ST sure did help make up for the lack of a competent line for sure.

[MR. Blueblood]

Yeah, if I'm not mistaken the only guys brought in last year were Satele and McGlynn for the o-line. I guess the coaches put too much faith in it and only realized the horror once the season started. I agree with you, having Hilton and Wayne making plays on offense and ST sure did help make up for the lack of a competent line for sure.

You forgot Winston Justice (RT), but I can totally see how he could slip your mind 

[NewColtsFan]

Honestly, it was a pretty low priority last season. There was a lot more emphasis on letting playmakers make plays.

 

It's never been a low priority....

 

But when you have an $80 Million dollar payroll instead of a $120 Million dollar payroll like now there are all sorts of areas that are going to be lacking.....

 

We brought in blue collar guys who would work hard....   most of them got injured during the season,  some more than once, or even twice...   I think the original starting line only played 4 games together...

 

We're not making a commitment now because we just decided to make it a priority.   We had money to spend and it was the number one priority this off-season.

 

Hope that clarifies...

[Superman]

I know we were up against the cap last season, but there were still lower level moves we could have made to stimulate some competition in camp. Veteran guys that could have been brought in, rather than the castoffs and undrafted guys that we wound up with. One that comes to mind is Jake Scott, who probably would have started at guard for us.

[dw49]

It's never been a low priority....

 

But when you have an $80 Million dollar payroll instead of a $120 Million dollar payroll like now there are all sorts of areas that are going to be lacking.....

 

We brought in blue collar guys who would work hard....   most of them got injured during the season,  some more than once, or even twice...   I think the original starting line only played 4 games together...

 

We're not making a commitment now because we just decided to make it a priority.   We had money to spend and it was the number one priority this off-season.

 

Hope that clarifies...

 

 

 

I guess none of the above posters realize what terrible shape Bill Polian left this team in. Besides all the bad drafts and bad contracts that had to be flushed down the toilet , he never even fixed the O Line. Fact was he actually butchered it by cutting and not resigning the two guards that were pretty good at the time. Certainly wasn't a question of "not wanting " it was more of "how good can I do making a cheap patch work O line ?" 

 

Then that line gets hit with injury after injury and we had guys like Sowell and that horrible guard (can't remember name) actually starting games. Grigson made the exact right moves in his first drafts ... get some play makers for Luck first and foremost. I mean... you can do only so much with the normal amount and draft picks and a 80 Mill cap.

 

Anyway... thank God Irsay fired Bill and his boy and somehow finds this Grigson guy. Just for instance , by all accounts our CB play looks to be very good so far. Guys actually knock balls down, make interceptions , cover guys and disrupt patterns . From that , I'll give a little trivia question. How many CB's were on the roster at the beginning of last year's training camp ?

[BOTT]

Truth be told, it didn't seem to be a high priority for Bruce Arians.

[dw49]

I know we were up against the cap last season, but there were still lower level moves we could have made to stimulate some competition in camp. Veteran guys that could have been brought in, rather than the castoffs and undrafted guys that we wound up with. One that comes to mind is Jake Scott, who probably would have started at guard for us.

 

 

Do you know if Jake Scott actually had enough football skills left to contribute ? Tenn had a very poor O Line last year and just let him rot on his couch . Also do you know if Scott wanted to return to the team that choose to hand out monster contracts  to his team mates and not resign him ? 

 

 

 

*** When I posted I didn't see your above comment. I know you knew how bad our roster was the beginning of 2012.

[Superman]

Do you know if Jake Scott actually had enough football skills left to contribute ? Tenn had a very poor O Line last year and just let him rot on his couch . Also do you know if Scott wanted to return to the team that choose to hand out monster contracts  to his team mates and not resign him ? 

 

 

 

*** When I posted I didn't see your above comment. I know you knew how bad our roster was the beginning of 2012.

 

He wound up starting the last seven games of the season for the Eagles. Reportedly, he was holding out for decent money, and finally decided to sign with someone so that he would have a better chance at getting back on in 2013. Did a decent job, starting six days after he signed. He signed with the Lions this offseason. 

 

What you might be right about is his lack of desire to come back to Indy. I don't know whether it's true or not, but he didn't quite leave here in the best way. The Colts offered him a reasonable deal (more than he got from the Titans, if you believe Bill Polian), and he chose to leave. I don't think the team bears any blame, but he might see it differently, and he might attribute that to Jim Irsay. Other than that, the coaches and the front office that were here in 2008 are no longer around. I tend to think that if we offered him a nice one year deal, he'd have come back. But I don't know.

[Superman]

I guess none of the above posters realize what terrible shape Bill Polian left this team in. Besides all the bad drafts and bad contracts that had to be flushed down the toilet , he never even fixed the O Line. Fact was he actually butchered it by cutting and not resigning the two guards that were pretty good at the time. Certainly wasn't a question of "not wanting " it was more of "how good can I do making a cheap patch work O line ?" 

 

Then that line gets hit with injury after injury and we had guys like Sowell and that horrible guard (can't remember name) actually starting games. Grigson made the exact right moves in his first drafts ... get some play makers for Luck first and foremost. I mean... you can do only so much with the normal amount and draft picks and a 80 Mill cap.

 

Anyway... thank God Irsay fired Bill and his boy and somehow finds this Grigson guy. Just for instance , by all accounts our CB play looks to be very good so far. Guys actually knock balls down, make interceptions , cover guys and disrupt patterns . From that , I'll give a little trivia question. How many CB's were on the roster at the beginning of last year's training camp ?

 

Ehh, I like the new direction as much as anyone else. I just disagree with some of your thoughts on how Polian addressed the offensive line. He didn't do a good job of it, for sure, but it wasn't "how good can I do making a cheap patch work O line?" It was more like "I suck at drafting offensive linemen," which he kind of admitted at one point.

From 2006 on, guys he drafted include: Michael Toudouze, Charlie Johnson, Tony Ugoh, Mike Pollak, Steve Justice, Jamey Richard, Jamie Thomas, and Jacques McClendon. The only one of those that did a good job was Charlie Johnson, which means he blew a second and a first on Ugoh, another second on Pollak, and a fourth on McClendon. Meanwhile, he treated free agency like it was a religious cult gathering, failing to make up for his draft mistakes. That left us to sign guys like Jeff Linkenbach to fill in at positions they had no business playing. I don't think he was trying to play a shell game, he just didn't do a good job drafting.

Specifically with Jake Scott and Ryan Lilja, that was kind of a stroke of bad luck for which I don't really blame Polian. Both of them were rated similarly, and Polian prioritized Scott, making him the first offer. Scott chose not to accept, so we made the same offer to Lilja. Unfortunately, Lilja got hurt and spent the next two years not playing and then playing kind of poorly. He shouldn't have been released when he was, but I really don't think he was that good or that crucial. The problem is that we had no one to replace him, and instead spent a first rounder on Jerry Hughes. Then he spent a second on Pat Angerer, which he wouldn't have had to do if he had taken James Laurinitis instead of Donald Brown the year before. I could go on...

Come 2012, we were in bad shape, as we all know, leading to the great purge. But we still had a little bit of cap space and could have brought in a couple veteran guys. If not Jake Scott, there were a handful of other interior linemen who lingered deep into free agency. We didn't get our money's worth on Satele last year, but I don't blame Grigson for that. What I do blame him for (not quite blame, but disagree with) is keeping Dwight Freeney at $19m. We could have addressed that situation and used some cap space to improve the offensive line. Even the premium interior line guys would have fit easily -- Ben Grubbs Year 1 cap hit was $2.7m; Carl Nicks originally only hit for $6.5m. Instead, we brought in Trai Essex and Mike McGlynn.

So it's not all on Polian. Grigson didn't do everything he could to address the line in 2012, for various reasons. He inherited a troubled roster, and did a ton to turn it around. I'm on record as being a big fan of Ryan Grigson. But I disagree that he didn't do more with the offensive line because he was handcuffed due to Polian's mismanagement.

[dw49]

 

Ehh, I like the new direction as much as anyone else. I just disagree with some of your thoughts on how Polian addressed the offensive line. He didn't do a good job of it, for sure, but it wasn't "how good can I do making a cheap patch work O line?" It was more like "I suck at drafting offensive linemen," which he kind of admitted at one point.

From 2006 on, guys he drafted include: Michael Toudouze, Charlie Johnson, Tony Ugoh, Mike Pollak, Steve Justice, Jamey Richard, Jamie Thomas, and Jacques McClendon. The only one of those that did a good job was Charlie Johnson, which means he blew a second and a first on Ugoh, another second on Pollak, and a fourth on McClendon. Meanwhile, he treated free agency like it was a religious cult gathering, failing to make up for his draft mistakes. That left us to sign guys like Jeff Linkenbach to fill in at positions they had no business playing. I don't think he was trying to play a shell game, he just didn't do a good job drafting.

Specifically with Jake Scott and Ryan Lilja, that was kind of a stroke of bad luck for which I don't really blame Polian. Both of them were rated similarly, and Polian prioritized Scott, making him the first offer. Scott chose not to accept, so we made the same offer to Lilja. Unfortunately, Lilja got hurt and spent the next two years not playing and then playing kind of poorly. He shouldn't have been released when he was, but I really don't think he was that good or that crucial. The problem is that we had no one to replace him, and instead spent a first rounder on Jerry Hughes. Then he spent a second on Pat Angerer, which he wouldn't have had to do if he had taken James Laurinitis instead of Donald Brown the year before. I could go on...

Come 2012, we were in bad shape, as we all know, leading to the great purge. But we still had a little bit of cap space and could have brought in a couple veteran guys. If not Jake Scott, there were a handful of other interior linemen who lingered deep into free agency. We didn't get our money's worth on Satele last year, but I don't blame Grigson for that. What I do blame him for (not quite blame, but disagree with) is keeping Dwight Freeney at $19m. We could have addressed that situation and used some cap space to improve the offensive line. Even the premium interior line guys would have fit easily -- Ben Grubbs Year 1 cap hit was $2.7m; Carl Nicks originally only hit for $6.5m. Instead, we brought in Trai Essex and Mike McGlynn.

So it's not all on Polian. Grigson didn't do everything he could to address the line in 2012, for various reasons. He inherited a troubled roster, and did a ton to turn it around. I'm on record as being a big fan of Ryan Grigson. But I disagree that he didn't do more with the offensive line because he was handcuffed due to Polian's mismanagement.

 

 

First of all the....

 

" just disagree with some of your thoughts on how Polian addressed the offensive line. He didn't do a good job of it, for sure, but it wasn't "how good can I do making a cheap patch work O line?" It was more like "I suck at drafting offensive linemen," which he kind of admitted at one point. " 

 

is wrong. I was referring to Grigson electing to put together a line on the cheap. I didn't mean to infer that this was Polian's statgegy. I can see how you read it that way.So were not in disagreement there. Poiian tried everything but signing big name free agents and just couldn't get it done. Where we disagree is that I do think that when you get a terrible roster and almost 40 million in dead cap space , you can't fix everything in a year. Yea... there might have been a good sign he could have made work and maybe M. M. was a bad sign... but who the heck is perfect ? Let's also not forget the injuries that the O Line had . 

 

Where we disagree is that I blame Polian 100% because fact is he did a terrible job and wrecked our roster and gave us cap hell to boot. We were projected to win 3-4 games and came away with 11. Putting blame on Grigson is pretty much asking for perfection and I just haven't seen a guy come along that fits that bill. I guess the last one was born 2013 years ago.

[dw49]

He wound up starting the last seven games of the season for the Eagles. Reportedly, he was holding out for decent money, and finally decided to sign with someone so that he would have a better chance at getting back on in 2013. Did a decent job, starting six days after he signed. He signed with the Lions this offseason. 

 

What you might be right about is his lack of desire to come back to Indy. I don't know whether it's true or not, but he didn't quite leave here in the best way. The Colts offered him a reasonable deal (more than he got from the Titans, if you believe Bill Polian), and he chose to leave. I don't think the team bears any blame, but he might see it differently, and he might attribute that to Jim Irsay. Other than that, the coaches and the front office that were here in 2008 are no longer around. I tend to think that if we offered him a nice one year deal, he'd have come back. But I don't know.

 

 

Yes could be Scott might have helped. What we don't know is if we had the money or desire to sign him. 

[Superman]

First of all the....

 

"[just disagree with some of your thoughts on how Polian addressed the offensive line. He didn't do a good job of it, for sure, but it wasn't "how good can I do making a cheap patch work O line?" It was more like "I suck at drafting offensive linemen," which he kind of admitted at one point. " 

 

is wrong. I was referring to Grigson electing to put together a line on the cheap. I didn't mean to infer that this was Polian's statgegy. I can see how you read it that way.So were not in disagreement there. Poiian tried everything but signing big name free agents and just couldn't get it done. Where we disagree is that I do think that when you get a terrible roster and almost 40 million in dead cap space , you can't fix everything in a year. Yea... there might have been a good sign he could have made work and maybe M. M. was a bad sign... but who the heck is perfect ? Let's also not forget the injuries that the O Line had . 

 

Where we disagree is that I blame Polian 100% because fact is he did a terrible job and wrecked our roster and gave us cap heck to boot. We were projected to win 3-4 games and came away with 11. Putting blame on Grigson is pretty much asking for perfection and I just haven't seen a guy come along that fits that bill. I guess the last one was born 2013 years ago.

I misunderstood. Yeah, I kind of agree that Grigson approached the line that way, aside from signing Satele, which didn't quite work out. There's also the injuries, which are no one's fault.

I'm not pretending that Polian didn't leave a mess for Grigson. I'm just saying that Grigson could have done more, given the tough circumstances he was faced with. Like Freeney. And this isn't just hindsight; I preached for weeks and months that we should do something with Freeney's contract. Not just a "we should cut Freeney, he sucks!" kind of thing, either. Specifically suggesting ways we could lower his cap hit, especially with the offensive line in mind.

Grigson isn't perfect, of course. But he's done a heck of a job. I'm just saying that, even with the cards he was dealt, he didn't HAVE TO take the "cheap patchwork o-line" route. He chose to. And that decision wasn't about the junk squad Polian left him.

[dw49]

I misunderstood. Yeah, I kind of agree that Grigson approached the line that way, aside from signing Satele, which didn't quite work out. There's also the injuries, which are no one's fault.

I'm not pretending that Polian didn't leave a mess for Grigson. I'm just saying that Grigson could have done more, given the tough circumstances he was faced with. Like Freeney. And this isn't just hindsight; I preached for weeks and months that we should do something with Freeney's contract. Not just a "we should cut Freeney, he sucks!" kind of thing, either. Specifically suggesting ways we could lower his cap hit, especially with the offensive line in mind.

Grigson isn't perfect, of course. But he's done a heck of a job. I'm just saying that, even with the cards he was dealt, he didn't HAVE TO take the "cheap patchwork o-line" route. He chose to. And that decision wasn't about the junk squad Polian left him

 

 

 

 

Here was my take then and now on the Freeney situation. Lots of conjecture .. so be prepared.

 

1) Grigson and Irsay probably thought the fan base was already furious with the purging of the roster. Don't forget that it also looked like we might let Wayne walk too. So maybe to keep some "peace" with the fan base , they decide not a good idea in that respect. Let's not forget that ticked off fans can choose not to renew their season tickets.

 

2) Freeney is older and maybe doesn't fit well in the new defense. So an extension or restructure makes little sense. Especially when you figure the Colts had to think they were 3 years away from serious contention. They could have offered him a pay cut and that would have made sense too as there is no way he was worth that kind of money. I think just loyalty and again "public relations" might have nixed this idea.

 

3) The last reason I can think of to keep him might be a combination of the following. Maybe they felt obligated to put a decent team on the field and felt that Freeney could still have another great year left at rushng the QB. If you look at how bad this team could have been , it could really have gotten ugly with zero pass rush. Maybe that and a lack of love for guys they could have signed in his place ? Dunno...

 

That all said , I wanted them to drop Freeney and use the money to sign Carl Nicks. 

[HGRekks]

Has Arians ever fielded a solid OL as an OC? I know the Steelers really didn't have one under him, and he even brought an assistant OL coach from Pittsburgh to run the OL in Indy.

 

Moving him out to the desert with another lack of OL and that same OL coach as the OC really makes me wonder.

[Superman]

Here was my take then and now on the Freeney situation. Lots of conjecture .. so be prepared.

 

1) Grigson and Irsay probably thought the fan base was already furious with the purging of the roster. Don't forget that it also looked like we might let Wayne walk too. So maybe to keep some "peace" with the fan base , they decide not a good idea in that respect. Let's not forget that ticked off fans can choose not to renew their season tickets.

 

2) Freeney is older and maybe doesn't fit well in the new defense. So an extension or restructure makes little sense. Especially when you figure the Colts had to think they were 3 years away from serious contention. They could have offered him a pay cut and that would have made sense too as there is no way he was worth that kind of money. I think just loyalty and again "public relations" might have nixed this idea.

 

3) The last reason I can think of to keep him might be a combination of the following. Maybe they felt obligated to put a decent team on the field and felt that Freeney could still have another great year left at rushng the QB. If you look at how bad this team could have been , it could really have gotten ugly with zero pass rush. Maybe that and a lack of love for guys they could have signed in his place ? Dunno...

 

That all said , I wanted them to drop Freeney and use the money to sign Carl Nicks.

Lots of conjecture, but I agree with most of it.

I think we could have definitely extended him without guaranteeing too much more than the $14m he was set to make. And then, if he didn't work out after one year, we could have released him and carried the dead cap hit. It would have been just about the same amount of money on the cap, just spread out over two years.

Or, in light of his comments about wanting to retire as a Colt, it might have been worth it to approach him about a simple salary reduction. Those things don't always go well, but remember, Freeney didn't have an agent until around the draft, when rumors starting flying that we were looking to trade him. No agent = no PR games.

I'm just saying, we carried Freeney at $19m last season, and his impact didn't nearly justify it. We could have done a number of other things, up to simply releasing him. That wasn't my preferred choice, but I think it would have been better from a football standpoint than simply doing nothing.

And that's just the Freeney angle. There were other moves we could have made to save a little money here and there. We finished the season with $3.5 in cap space; we could have added a guard with that money.

Again, I'm not trying to be hyper-critical of Grigson. I'm a big fan of his approach, and I think he's doing a great job. I'm just saying that he bears some of the responsibility for the offensive line.

[dw49]

Has Arians ever fielded a solid OL as an OC? I know the Steelers really didn't have one under him, and he even brought an assistant OL coach from Pittsburgh to run the OL in Indy.

 

Moving him out to the desert with another lack of OL and that same OL coach as the OC really makes me wonder.

 

 

 

Not sure some of you aren't putting too much blame on the OC for not having a good O Line. I'm sure ever OC  begs for free agents and draft picks spent in this area.. no ? I think more of a GM issue.

[dw49]

Lots of conjecture, but I agree with most of it.

I think we could have definitely extended him without guaranteeing too much more than the $14m he was set to make. And then, if he didn't work out after one year, we could have released him and carried the dead cap hit. It would have been just about the same amount of money on the cap, just spread out over two years.

Or, in light of his comments about wanting to retire as a Colt, it might have been worth it to approach him about a simple salary reduction. Those things don't always go well, but remember, Freeney didn't have an agent until around the draft, when rumors starting flying that we were looking to trade him. No agent = no PR games.

I'm just saying, we carried Freeney at $19m last season, and his impact didn't nearly justify it. We could have done a number of other things, up to simply releasing him. That wasn't my preferred choice, but I think it would have been better from a football standpoint than simply doing nothing.

And that's just the Freeney angle. There were other moves we could have made to save a little money here and there. We finished the season with $3.5 in cap space; we could have added a guard with that money.

Again, I'm not trying to be hyper-critical of Grigson. I'm a big fan of his approach, and I think he's doing a great job. I'm just saying that he bears some of the responsibility for the offensive line.

 

 

No doubt his handling of the offensive line does not warrant a high grade. But over all the guy get's an A ... GM of the year .. right ?  My point is that he was left a mess by Polian. Horrible roster and 35 mill in cap hits. Part of this mess was a plie of pure pooop for an offensive line. So Polian left the problem and Grigson , as you say did not do an A plus job of shoring it up in one year, Granted as you say , there were things he could have done to keep Luck more upright but I don't think it was an "easy fix." I guess Polain can attest to that.

[BOTT]

Not sure some of you aren't putting too much blame on the OC for not having a good O Line. I'm sure ever OC  begs for free agents and draft picks spent in this area.. no ? I think more of a GM issue.

The problem was the Oline....and Arians not adjusting to its limitations.

[HGRekks]

Not sure some of you aren't putting too much blame on the OC for not having a good O Line. I'm sure ever OC  begs for free agents and draft picks spent in this area.. no ? I think more of a GM issue.

Part of having bad o-linemen is also masking that as best as possible. The Colts got by with it in the past, though it's certainly never preferable. An OC is responsible, at least to some degree, of making what he has work. Arians has never adjusted to these lines and always played the same way, even though it put his QB, and hence his team, at far more risk. Hiring an OL coach is not unheard of for OCs, as they can often choose their guys to some extent. The fact that the OL coach moved out with Arians to the desert at least has a correlatory effect towards that point.

 

While I certainly won't blame Arians for the talent acquired, I think it's absolutely rational to blame him for his inability or  inaction in masking that weakness.

[dw49]

The problem was the Oline....and Arians not adjusting to its limitations.

 

 

I can understand that line of thinking. 

[dw49]

Part of having bad o-linemen is also masking that as best as possible. The Colts got by with it in the past, though it's certainly never preferable. An OC is responsible, at least to some degree, of making what he has work. Arians has never adjusted to these lines and always played the same way, even though it put his QB, and hence his team, at far more risk. Hiring an OL coach is not unheard of for OCs, as they can often choose their guys to some extent. The fact that the OL coach moved out with Arians to the desert at least has a correlatory effect towards that point.

 

While I certainly won't blame Arians for the talent acquired, I think it's absolutely rational to blame him for his inability or  inaction in masking that weakness.

 

 

 

 

As I say above a bit .. I do understand that thinking. Also no doubt that I did not do a good job interpreting what you meant in the first post I responded to.

[Ohio Colt]

Niec find on this article man. I like Prisco's stuff. Hadn't seen this

[MR. Blueblood]

I'm not pretending that Polian didn't leave a mess for Grigson. I'm just saying that Grigson could have done more, given the tough circumstances he was faced with. Like Freeney. And this isn't just hindsight; I preached for weeks and months that we should do something with Freeney's contract. Not just a "we should cut Freeney, he sucks!" kind of thing, either. Specifically suggesting ways we could lower his cap hit, especially with the offensive line in mind.

 

Just a quick question, because I'm not sure of this myself.  Do any of us know that there wasn't an attempt by the F.O. to work with Freeney on a deal that would've been more beneficial to the Colts?  If I recall Freeney went some time in the last off season without an agent, plus there might have been little to zero incentive for him to restructure his deal.  His window/ability to draw major pay is closing fast, so why not get all you can get while you can get it?  If that would be Freeney's stance, then the Colts would only be left with trading him (not gonna happen with his contract being what it was in a final year) or an outright cut.  It's a rock and a hard place moment for Grigson and the team.  Guess they decided the best move going forward was to run the course and move on after it all played out.  

[Tark The Shark]

Good article, certainly sums up what last year was about and some nice optimism heading into next year.

 

Arian's philosophy worked last year under extreme circumstances with him being the interim head coach, offensive play-caller and coordinator. At times, Arians was trying to fit a square piece in a round hole and Luck overcame a lot of stuff to get to a 11-5 year.

 

With the addition of Cherlius and Thomas, and the drafting of Thornton, we brought in guys that Grigson believes will get us farther into the playoffs. 

 

It is very good to see that the franchise is bringing in guys and drafting guys to help protect the franchise player.

[crazycolt1]

 

Ehh, I like the new direction as much as anyone else. I just disagree with some of your thoughts on how Polian addressed the offensive line. He didn't do a good job of it, for sure, but it wasn't "how good can I do making a cheap patch work O line?" It was more like "I suck at drafting offensive linemen," which he kind of admitted at one point.

From 2006 on, guys he drafted include: Michael Toudouze, Charlie Johnson, Tony Ugoh, Mike Pollak, Steve Justice, Jamey Richard, Jamie Thomas, and Jacques McClendon. The only one of those that did a good job was Charlie Johnson, which means he blew a second and a first on Ugoh, another second on Pollak, and a fourth on McClendon. Meanwhile, he treated free agency like it was a religious cult gathering, failing to make up for his draft mistakes. That left us to sign guys like Jeff Linkenbach to fill in at positions they had no business playing. I don't think he was trying to play a shell game, he just didn't do a good job drafting.

Specifically with Jake Scott and Ryan Lilja, that was kind of a stroke of bad luck for which I don't really blame Polian. Both of them were rated similarly, and Polian prioritized Scott, making him the first offer. Scott chose not to accept, so we made the same offer to Lilja. Unfortunately, Lilja got hurt and spent the next two years not playing and then playing kind of poorly. He shouldn't have been released when he was, but I really don't think he was that good or that crucial. The problem is that we had no one to replace him, and instead spent a first rounder on Jerry Hughes. Then he spent a second on Pat Angerer, which he wouldn't have had to do if he had taken James Laurinitis instead of Donald Brown the year before. I could go on...

Come 2012, we were in bad shape, as we all know, leading to the great purge. But we still had a little bit of cap space and could have brought in a couple veteran guys. If not Jake Scott, there were a handful of other interior linemen who lingered deep into free agency. We didn't get our money's worth on Satele last year, but I don't blame Grigson for that. What I do blame him for (not quite blame, but disagree with) is keeping Dwight Freeney at $19m. We could have addressed that situation and used some cap space to improve the offensive line. Even the premium interior line guys would have fit easily -- Ben Grubbs Year 1 cap hit was $2.7m; Carl Nicks originally only hit for $6.5m. Instead, we brought in Trai Essex and Mike McGlynn.

So it's not all on Polian. Grigson didn't do everything he could to address the line in 2012, for various reasons. He inherited a troubled roster, and did a ton to turn it around. I'm on record as being a big fan of Ryan Grigson. But I disagree that he didn't do more with the offensive line because he was handcuffed due to Polian's mismanagement.

So bringing in 37 new players was not doing enough? Having injuries and then having 12 different starting line ups on the offensive line? Grigson was strapped with 38 million in dead cap money and high end offensive linemen are not cheap. All things considering Grigson dont a lot more than people expected. He won GM of the year so he was seen as a great GM buy those who know football. Polians miss management? OK, if you say so.

[loudnproudcolt]

When we look at the problems of the offensive line and then consider Polian and his drafting, after he was fired I could never get over what he said on ESPN was his drafting strategy. When going over his strategy for drafting players, he said he would never draft an offensive linemen in the first round. That blew me away as being really a really bad strategy. His belief is they were not worth a first round draft pick. That was reserved for impact players only, pass rushers, running backs, WR's. That was due to come back and bite us. I think we are incredibly fortunate we only had to go through salary cap hell for one year. Grigson has done an amazing job in just over one year to rebuild both sides of the line. Think about that, just over 18 months since he took over! Great find and I find it amazing Irsay has the foresight to hire him.

[crazycolt1]

Truth be told, it didn't seem to be a high priority for Bruce Arians.

I agree. Arians play calling was not designed to protect the QB that's for sure.

[rittdk01]

its never been a high priority for arians just ask big Ben.

[crazycolt1]

Just a quick question, because I'm not sure of this myself.  Do any of us know that there wasn't an attempt by the F.O. to work with Freeney on a deal that would've been more beneficial to the Colts?  If I recall Freeney went some time in the last off season without an agent, plus there might have been little to zero incentive for him to restructure his deal.  His window/ability to draw major pay is closing fast, so why not get all you can get while you can get it?  If that would be Freeney's stance, then the Colts would only be left with trading him (not gonna happen with his contract being what it was in a final year) or an outright cut.  It's a rock and a hard place moment for Grigson and the team.  Guess they decided the best move going forward was to run the course and move on after it all played out.

The Colts tried to rework Freeney's contract but he wouldn't go for it. The Colts tried very hard to trade him also but found no takers for the money that Polian had signed him to. Colts had no choice but to play him because he was going to be paid anyway with his contract. Had the Colts not played him they would have been even deeper in dead cap space.. Freeney did end up taking a much lower contract in Denver that what he had here the year before.

[Edit: Accidental edit. The text of the original post should be restored now.]

Edited August 3, 2013 by Superman
accidental

[Superman]

So bringing in 37 new players was not doing enough? Having injuries and then having 12 different starting line ups on the offensive line? Grigson was strapped with 38 million in dead cap money and high end offensive linemen are not cheap. All things considering Grigson dont a lot more than people expected. He won GM of the year so he was seen as a great GM buy those who know football. Polians miss management? OK, if you say so.

Every GM brings in 37 new players. You go from a 53 man roster to a 90 man roster. 90 minus 53...

That said, I'm a huge Grigson fan. He did a great job. But he chose, in this particular case, to carry Freeney at $19m, and he didn't get a good return on that investment. He has to take ownership for that decision. And that decision affected his ability to add guys on the offensive line as much as the $40m in dead cap. I was on board with virtually every decision Grigson made last year, especially the major ones, except that one. When the forum was melting down because we were releasing guys like Brackett, Addai and Clark, I was applauding, because I had already said that we should be doing just that. To tweak a line from Dark Knight -- I believe in Ryan Grigson.

All I'm saying is that I don't think we can continue to blame everything on Polian's mistakes. Blame Polian for the fact that we had precious little talent on the offensive line. But don't blame him for Grigson not adding good linemen in 2012. As I mentioned before, we could have made some tweaks -- specifically, with Freeney -- and been in the running for even the top tier guards that were available last year.

I'm very pleased with Grigson. I didn't bring this up. I'm only countering the idea that he was strapped with no options because of Polian. It's not true.

[Superman]

Just a quick question, because I'm not sure of this myself.  Do any of us know that there wasn't an attempt by the F.O. to work with Freeney on a deal that would've been more beneficial to the Colts?  If I recall Freeney went some time in the last off season without an agent, plus there might have been little to zero incentive for him to restructure his deal.  His window/ability to draw major pay is closing fast, so why not get all you can get while you can get it?  If that would be Freeney's stance, then the Colts would only be left with trading him (not gonna happen with his contract being what it was in a final year) or an outright cut.  It's a rock and a hard place moment for Grigson and the team.  Guess they decided the best move going forward was to run the course and move on after it all played out.

The only thing I heard from the staff and front office on Freeney last year was "he's going to be a Colt," and that's it. Even while the media speculated that something would happen, they stood firm. I'm fine with that. But there's no indication that the team addressed Freeney regarding a new deal, a restructure, a pay cut, anything. Could have happened, but it wasn't reported.

You're right, he was without an agent for a while. I believe he hired one around the time of the draft, when there were rumors that we were going to trade him.

It would have been a tough decision on Freeney, for sure. But that's the GM's job, to make tough decisions. All I'm saying is that I don't think it's fair to say "Grigson was stuck because of Polian's bad contracts," without acknowledging the options Grigson did have.

Again, just to reiterate, I'm a huge Grigson fan.

[Superman]

The Colts tried to rework Freeney's contract but he wouldn't go for it. The Colts tried very hard to trade him also but found no takers for the money that Polian had signed him to. Colts had no choice but to play him because he was going to be paid anyway with his contract. Had the Colts not played him they would have been even deeper in dead cap space.. Freeney did end up taking a much lower contract in Denver that what he had here the year before.

Do you have any reports suggesting that the Colts tried to rework Freeney's deal or trade him? I certainly heard nothing of the sort. There were rumors the team wanted to trade him around the draft, but everyone with the team denied them.

It's not true that we had no choice but to pay him. Releasing him outright would have saved the team $14m in cap space and cash. I was only an advocate of releasing him as an absolute last option, but in hindsight, that would have worked much better than keeping him on a bum ankle for five sacks and limited effectiveness.

Also, this misnomer of "dead cap space"... I've addressed it before, but just to clarify, we had $5m of dead cap space on Freeney's deal either way. We could have released him and saved $14m.

Lastly, Freeney signed with the Chargers, not Denver.

[Superman]

When we look at the problems of the offensive line and then consider Polian and his drafting, after he was fired I could never get over what he said on ESPN was his drafting strategy. When going over his strategy for drafting players, he said he would never draft an offensive linemen in the first round. That blew me away as being really a really bad strategy. His belief is they were not worth a first round draft pick. That was reserved for impact players only, pass rushers, running backs, WR's. That was due to come back and bite us. I think we are incredibly fortunate we only had to go through salary cap heck for one year. Grigson has done an amazing job in just over one year to rebuild both sides of the line. Think about that, just over 18 months since he took over! Great find and I find it amazing Irsay has the foresight to hire him.

I'm not going to say Polian didn't say that, but it sounds more blustery than anything else. Polian's final first round draft pick was an offensive lineman. He followed that up with another lineman in the second round. He traded a future first rounder to get Tony Ugoh. The next year, he spent a second on Mike Pollak, which was our first pick in the draft. A lot of his offensive line picks just weren't good.

I do remember him saying that preferred so-called impact players, "playmakers," as he called them. But I don't remember him saying he would never draft a lineman in the first round, and even if he did, that wasn't true.

I agree about Grigson. He's done a great job. I just think there's a lot of Polian bashing already, and while much of it is deserved, some of it is misplaced.

[Restored]

I really can't fault Polian a whole lot. The blueprint he used was to have a super good, highly paid QB, surround him with elite weapons on offense and sprinkle in just good enough pieces to compete on defense. It worked for years in the regular season but as Irsay recently noted himself, we had way too many inconsistencies in the playoffs where weaknesses would be blatantly exposed.

The problem was, Polian began to miss on draft picks after 06'. The offense that once had amazing superstar, explosive ability became Peyton Manning turning Blair White into WMDs (in relative terms of course).

There was no 2nd half plan for Peyton's career really. But as noted previously, once your super star QB gets 1/5 of your salary cap, there isn't much money left to go around to build a COMPLETE team. This is why Grigson is spending "aggressively" in FA because the Colts can afford to do so for the duration of Lucks rookie contract. After that, you hope that Grigson built a good enough pool of players through the draft to compete with Luck probably being a top 5 paid QB in the league.