A description of the Ravens' hybrid 3-4 and our personnel to play that version

[chad72]

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2010/4/9/1412079/football-101-the-ravens-hybrid

 

A few key lines in this article:

 

I: However, if the defense doesn’t have at least one penetrating defensive lineman in the front three, pressuring the quarterback will be much harder and the defense will be forced to bring extra blitzers. That obviously negates the effectiveness of the entire scheme.

 

II: The weakness of the 3-4 defense is apparent in its design. The large gaps between the nose tackle and the defensive ends make the defense susceptible to the inside, power running game. With an excellent nose tackle versus an average offensive line, this weakness is negligible. When playing against a power running team with an offensive line that’s on par with the defensive line, the 3-4 defense is at a serious disadvantage, and the lineman will wear out throughout the course of a game. This causes the entire defense to fail since the linebackers will need to commit to run defense, and that opens up the passing game for the offense.

 

 

Regarding I: It did make me think of a few things - one, when you have the luxury of a pass rushing DE like J.J.Watt, why does Wade Philips not play coverage more often than sending extra pass rushers to blitz? Since the Colts don't have such disruptive DL in terms of pass rush, and invested in more man corners, do we anticipate more blitzes than last year?

 

 

Regarding II: Do we have the excellent NT that we need to have to not have a weakness vs power running teams like the 49ers or Seahawks as described above? Is the DL personnel versatile to play vs the power run formations and have lateral quickness to play vs ZBS teams like the Texans that use chop blocks and cut back lanes a lot? This is the reason why I feel we might carry more DL than we have in the past since substitutions is a luxury we will be afforded vs running teams and we need to switch as much as we can.

 

 

Thoughts???

 

[Gavin]

Thoughts? Holy crap Im ready for some footbal!!!!! bring it on!!!

[IndianaJones]

I think it depends on josh chapman,and if he's as good as everybody had hoped.I'm curious to see just how good this man is.I know robert mathis loves the guy,so maybe that's a good thing.

[Qwiz]

Thoughts? Holy crap Im ready for some footbal!!!!! bring it on!!!

[AntonMcG]

I think to minimize space up the middle, it will be imperative that we set the edge effectively. This could be the most important reason for Erik Walden's large contract. If he proves efficient at setting the edge, the three linemen can tuck in and make gaps down the middle considerably smaller.

[TKnight24]

Response to #1: Josh Chapman is gonna be that guy. We know Cory Redding can be disruptive when healthy. But who else on the line is gonna be disruptive? Someone has to step up cause let's be honest here, Cory Redding isn't getting any younger.

Response to #2: Depth is everything in the 3-4 Defense. The reason why the 49ers & Ravens run it well is because the depth behind their starters. I'm interested in seeing how often that Mr. Manusky and our assistant defensive coaches rotate guys in and out to keep them fresh down the stretch. They have alot of new toys to play with on defense, now it's all about putting it together

This is all just my opinion on the matter though. Can't wait for the season to start and get this monster out the cage.

[Smonroe]

Chad, those questions aren't going to be answered until we see the D in a real game.  When over half of your starters are new, and some have never played in an NFL game, no one can predict how they'll play together.

 

Personally, I have confidence in our GM and coaches to get the right guys in for our D scheme.  But only time will tell.

[Superman]

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2010/4/9/1412079/football-101-the-ravens-hybrid

 

Regarding I: It did make me think of a few things - one, when you have the luxury of a pass rushing DE like J.J.Watt, why does Wade Philips not play coverage more often than sending extra pass rushers to blitz? Since the Colts don't have such disruptive DL in terms of pass rush, and invested in more man corners, do we anticipate more blitzes than last year?

 

 

Regarding II: Do we have the excellent NT that we need to have to not have a weakness vs power running teams like the 49ers or Seahawks as described above? Is the DL personnel versatile to play vs the power run formations and have lateral quickness to play vs ZBS teams like the Texans that use chop blocks and cut back lanes a lot? This is the reason why I feel we might carry more DL than we have in the past since substitutions is a luxury we will be afforded vs running teams and we need to switch as much as we can.

 

 

Thoughts???

 

Good stuff. That's one of my favorite articles on this defense, and something that everyone who really wants to understand what Pagano wants to do should read.

 

My response to your questions:

 

1) I don't think Wade Phillips blitzes as much as most other 3-4 coordinators, especially last season. I think they sent four, which is typical, a majority of the time. As it pertains to the Colts, I think at one point last season we led the league in blitzes (5+ rushers). Hard to imagine us blitzing more than we did last year, especially now that we have more versatile personnel.

 

2) We don't know what we have at nose tackle yet. The only one we've actually seen play is Tevaseu, and he's not that excellent guy you're asking about. Hard to imagine that Chapman will be that good right away. And I agree that we'll carry as many linemen as we practically can, because injuries and fatigue will take their toll. Someone suggested we might only break camp with 5 d-linemen. I can't see that. I figure at least 7, maybe 8.

 

In addition, it's still going to be a hybrid front. We aren't a hybrid because we don't have the personnel to run a full time 3-4. We're a hybrid because that's Pagano's vision for the defense. Even as we add the bigger linemen, we're still going to use plenty of four-down looks, which will help alleviate some of the gap issues in the middle. 

 

Another adjustment we made last year is that we often played one of the ends in the gap between the guard and tackle, rather than directly over the tackle, usually on the strongside. This requires the strongside backer to be disciplined against the run, but it helps fill the void in the middle, even allowing the nose tackle to play a 1-technique, shaded to the weakside shoulder of the center, balancing the entire line out. Now you have the weakside end over tackle, and you're making it more difficult to block the Rush backer on the weakside. The two inside backers are better able to stay clean, and that's part of the reason Jerrell Freeman was able to be all over the place. 

[superrep1967]

Response to #1: Josh Chapman is gonna be that guy. We know Cory Redding can be disruptive when healthy. But who else on the line is gonna be disruptive? Someone has to step up cause let's be honest here, Cory Redding isn't getting any younger.

Response to #2: Depth is everything in the 3-4 Defense. The reason why the 49ers & Ravens run it well is because the depth behind their starters. I'm interested in seeing how often that Mr. Manusky and our assistant defensive coaches rotate guys in and out to keep them fresh down the stretch. They have alot of new toys to play with on defense, now it's all about putting it together

This is all just my opinion on the matter though. Can't wait for the season to start and get this monster out the cage.

I do think we have depth now. Yes can't wait for the season to start. But the closer it gets the further away it seems. 

[alexb]

I think to minimize space up the middle, it will be imperative that we set the edge effectively. This could be the most important reason for Erik Walden's large contract. If he proves efficient at setting the edge, the three linemen can tuck in and make gaps down the middle considerably smaller.

setting the edge is probably the biggest reason they brought in Werner to try to convert him to the hybrid. "NObody" has ever set the edge better in the history of modern football than the young man from Germany. Lol. That's only a half of joke.

[TKnight24]

I think some plays we can let Werner put his hand in the dirt and rush the QB. That's something I'd do if I was Manusky

[mvbighead]

We're better off now than we were last year.

 

Chapman is healthy, we brought in Franklin and still have McKinney and some of the other guys.  I suspect the camp battle for roster spots this year will be far more fierce, and we won't simply keep the guy we have that fits, we'll actually get to pick the more talented player.

 

We also brought in Montori Hughes, and he seems to be a guy that can fill either the Ngata DE role, or spend time at NT if depth requires it.

 

All in all, I think we have 2-3 more pieces this year than we had last year, and I suspect some of them will prove to be major improvements over what we've seen in the past.

[Superman]

We're better off now than we were last year.

 

Chapman is healthy, we brought in Franklin and still have McKinney and some of the other guys.  I suspect the camp battle for roster spots this year will be far more fierce, and we won't simply keep the guy we have that fits, we'll actually get to pick the more talented player.

 

We also brought in Montori Hughes, and he seems to be a guy that can fill either the Ngata DE role, or spend time at NT if depth requires it.

 

All in all, I think we have 2-3 more pieces this year than we had last year, and I suspect some of them will prove to be major improvements over what we've seen in the past.

 

I figure Chapman, Franklin, Redding, RJF and Hughes are for sure on the final roster. Then we'll probably be looking at Chapman or Tevaseu for a possible third nose tackle. And Nevis and Mathews will fight for the 7th DL spot. Moala starts on PUP.

[Carlos Danger]

I think that Montori Hughes, Redding, RJF, and Nevis can all get penetration from the DE spot... Hughes and RJF will likely be able to move over and play the nose in our 4-down looks without sacrificing a gap...

 

The defense will be night and day compared to last season... Walden setting the edge will be more valuable than many will understand until they see it... Landry will be the enforcer in the box that we are paying him to be. We are bigger along the line and our inside and outside backers are all good tacklers.

It looks like we might have issues with coverage and pass rush on paper, but I think that we have the personnel to play some good situational football. If we take away the run, our pass rushers can react more quickly which, in turn, helps the coverage. Playing the run effectively will also make the opponents' passing trees more predictable... allowing our corners to jump a few routes a fluster some QBs....

[Mameluc]

im a fan of luck and everything but for whatever reason im more xcited about the D this year than the new O.

 

maybe cause we have had to endure crazy bad Defenses for so long..

[Jason_]

I figure Chapman, Franklin, Redding, RJF and Hughes are for sure on the final roster. Then we'll probably be looking at Chapman or Tevaseu for a possible third nose tackle. And Nevis and Mathews will fight for the 7th DL spot. Moala starts on PUP.

 

Simple brain glitch I'm sure, but you have Chapman listed twice.  I'm thinking you meant McKinney or Tevaseu for a possible 3rd NT?  

 

If Hughes is as versatile as is believed then I wouldn't be surprised if we kept Nevis and either Guy or Matthews and let both McKinney and Tevaseu go.  I think Nevis and Guy have much more upside, and Matthews as well to a lesser extent, than McKinney or Tevaseu.  Just my opinion and I agree the positional battles should be very interesting this year.

[Jason_]

im a fan of luck and everything but for whatever reason im more xcited about the D this year than the new O.

 

maybe cause we have had to endure crazy bad Defenses for so long..

 

Add me to that as well.  I can't wait to see what our defense can do.  

[Superman]

Simple brain glitch I'm sure, but you have Chapman listed twice.  I'm thinking you meant McKinney or Tevaseu for a possible 3rd NT?  

 

 

I keep doing that! Don't know what my problem is. I'm signing up for Luminosity right now...

 

Yes, I meant McKinney or Tevaseu.

 

 

If Hughes is as versatile as is believed then I wouldn't be surprised if we kept Nevis and either Guy or Matthews and let both McKinney and Tevaseu go.  I think Nevis and Guy have much more upside, and Matthews as well to a lesser extent, than McKinney or Tevaseu.  Just my opinion and I agree the positional battles should be very interesting this year. 

 

 

Not only Hughes, but RJF and Redding could play nose in a pinch. But with Chapman's injury history and Franklin being an older vet, I could see a premium being placed on depth at nose tackle. 

 

However if one of the tackle/end guys is impressive, and the backup nose guys aren't really making it happen, I could see us going with 2 NTs and 5 tackle/ends. Especially if Hughes is doing well in camp and preseason play.

[Gavin]

I keep doing that! Don't know what my problem is. I'm signing up for Luminosity right now...

 

Yes, I meant McKinney or Tevaseu.

 

 

 

Not only Hughes, but RJF and Redding could play nose in a pinch. But with Chapman's injury history and Franklin being an older vet, I could see a premium being placed on depth at nose tackle. 

 

However if one of the tackle/end guys is impressive, and the backup nose guys aren't really making it happen, I could see us going with 2 NTs and 5 tackle/ends. Especially if Hughes is doing well in camp and preseason play.

I think the final guys at End and Nose will be

Chapman

Tevasue

Redding

Moala

Francois

Hughes

Heard

Franklin

Nevis or Lawrence

 

The following

 

Tevasue

Redding

Moala (if healthy)

Hughes

Heard

Francois

Nevis

 

have experience at both End and Nose, Also why I think those guys will make it