Grigson Loves Speed and Percy has a lot of it

[GoColts8818]

But we have big targets. Fleener and Allen.Just because they are not listed as WR's doesn't mean they can't be utilized as the big targets everybody seems to think we need.

a Big Tightend is not the samething as a big WR you know that. We are going to have to replace Avery if we let him walk.  We might as well replace him with a type of guy we don't have on the roster at the WR spot rather than getting a third speed guy that is going to be baird on the roster behind Brazil and Hilton. Again if we do that threw the draft I have zero issue with that. 

[trailertrash]

a Big Tightend is not the samething as a big WR you know that. We are going to have to replace Avery if we let him walk.  We might as well replace him with a type of guy we don't have on the roster at the WR spot rather than getting a third speed guy that is going to be baird on the roster behind Brazil and Hilton. Again if we do that threw the draft I have zero issue with that. 

I'd disagree. A Big ATHLETIC tight-end (like Fleener) can be as good as a big WR. For example, would you rather Calvin Johnson or Rob Gronkowski (if he wasn't so injury prone)? It's a matter of choice. CJ is the best WR in NFL history (sorry Jerry) but Gronk has the potential of becoming the best TE in NFL history, and he can jump, catch and run routes like CJ (but can't run as fast). Contrast that with Fleener. Fleener is as big as CJ (and a little heavier). He's as fast as CJ. He can jump like CJ. Now only if he could run routes and had hands like CJ. Those are qualities that can be developed in an offseason or two. Eventually, big Athletic TE all have the ceiling of guys like CJ though lower floors. That's the reason why they aren't drafted top 5 either. Again, it's a matter of choice.  

[GoColts8818]

I'd disagree. A Big ATHLETIC tight-end (like Fleener) can be as good as a big WR. For example, would you rather Calvin Johnson or Rob Gronkowski (if he wasn't so injury prone)? It's a matter of choice. CJ is the best WR in NFL history (sorry Jerry) but Gronk has the potential of becoming the best TE in NFL history, and he can jump, catch and run routes like CJ (but can't run as fast). Contrast that with Fleener. Fleener is as big as CJ (and a little heavier). He's as fast as CJ. He can jump like CJ. Now only if he could run routes and had hands like CJ. Those are qualities that can be developed in an offseason or two. Eventually, big Athletic TE all have the ceiling of guys like CJ though lower floors. That's the reason why they aren't drafted top 5 either. Again, it's a matter of choice.  

A good player to compare this too is Clark and if you look at Clark's numbers other than two years he never had more than 58 catches in a season.  To his credit those two years he had 88 and 100 catches but those were not the norm for him.  Most years he was held under 50 to the point he only averages 47.4 catches a year.  Hilton had 50 catches this year as a rookie who did not start right away.  Tightends even ones like Fleener, or Clark do different things.  They are asked to stay in and block on some plays and they don't go outside most of the time they play off the line or out of the slot.  The Colts currently do not have a big tall WR who can take some reps outside.  They could use a player there. 

 

Also Gronk is by far the exception not the rule.  That's like comparing other QBs to Peyton Manning when trying to establish what most QBs do in the league. 

 

Is a WR the Colts biggest need?  No.  However, if we let Avery walk it becomes a bit of a need.  At that point we would have three proven WRs in Wayne, Hilton, and Brazil.  We would need at least one more WR if not two.  That opens the door for someone even if it's a guy like Whalen or Collie.  All I am saying is if we have to go get a WR anyways we might as well look for the kind of WR we currently don't have on the roster which is a big tall guy.  Again I am not saying they need to go get a guy like Bowe to fill that need.  They could easily do it with a later round pick in the draft.  Although I will say age is going to catch up to Reggie Wayne sooner or later.  If we address our other needs threw free agency which we could do with the cap space we have.  I could see us going WR in round one if one is there just because we do need to find another another future number one WR at some point.  As much as I like a guy like Hilton I don't think he's a future number one. 

[Coltscodeblue]

WR this, WR that, TE this and TE that, doesn't do any good when the QB is on the ground or running for his life, offensive line is the ultimate players the Colts need, you all watching the Den-Rav game? Both their o-lines are doing great at giving the QB's time to do what they do, and the RB's some holes.

 

We all can speculate, (which is fun to do) but until it's the Colts pick if it's 24th or a trade to a higher one which I doubt since who we got no one to trade. We are at the Mercy of the teams before the Colts pick to determine who Colts end up getting, who all thought C.Fleener wouldn't be there and to also get the better TE D.Allen in the 3rd. And if Chapmen works out, "got fingers crossed" he also would be a steal. So we'll see what happens this coming draft, If Colts could somehow get FA R.Clady Grigson would be a god :}LOL

 

Go Colts!!!!!

 

Ps. Is R.Clady if franchised by Denver and signed by Denver is he worth trading the 24th pick to Denver for R.Clady, at least he's established and known to be good, he's only 26 YO, Humm????? Going to be a nail biting off season!!!!! I trust Grigson!!!!!

[nburgmei]

.

Got a good laugh at that one! Then instantly wanted to punch you, lol

 

After watching that Bronco's game I'd be more than happy to let you punch me as long as you do it hard enough to knock me unconscious for a little while.

[mahagga73]

The question that should be asked is, what makes you think he's even available? He is their 2nd most important player on offense so I doubt they even let him walk

No, they want him out. He is a great player but he has a major league attitude problem and his threshold for pain has been questionable up there. I'm pretty sure despite his talent the Vikings may feel they would be better off without him. He was IR'ed as much for his attitude as any injury it's believed.

[trailertrash]

A good player to compare this too is Clark and if you look at Clark's numbers other than two years he never had more than 58 catches in a season.  To his credit those two years he had 88 and 100 catches but those were not the norm for him.  Most years he was held under 50 to the point he only averages 47.4 catches a year.  Hilton had 50 catches this year as a rookie who did not start right away.  Tightends even ones like Fleener, or Clark do different things.  They are asked to stay in and block on some plays and they don't go outside most of the time they play off the line or out of the slot.  The Colts currently do not have a big tall WR who can take some reps outside.  They could use a player there. 

 

Also Gronk is by far the exception not the rule.  That's like comparing other QBs to Peyton Manning when trying to establish what most QBs do in the league. 

 

Is a WR the Colts biggest need?  No.  However, if we let Avery walk it becomes a bit of a need.  At that point we would have three proven WRs in Wayne, Hilton, and Brazil.  We would need at least one more WR if not two.  That opens the door for someone even if it's a guy like Whalen or Collie.  All I am saying is if we have to go get a WR anyways we might as well look for the kind of WR we currently don't have on the roster which is a big tall guy.  Again I am not saying they need to go get a guy like Bowe to fill that need.  They could easily do it with a later round pick in the draft.  Although I will say age is going to catch up to Reggie Wayne sooner or later.  If we address our other needs threw free agency which we could do with the cap space we have.  I could see us going WR in round one if one is there just because we do need to find another another future number one WR at some point.  As much as I like a guy like Hilton I don't think he's a future number one. 

The same thing can be said about CJ as well. Just because one guy does, doesn't mean that every guy should be able to do it. Like Manning, CJ is also the outlier, a once in a lifetime kind of a football player, the same way Gronk is a once in a generation-caliber football player (has the potential to become anyway).

 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing but simply having a TE like Fleener, and if we can get a O-Line that doesn't require Fleener to block, can adequetly compensate for not having a target like CJ. To get a guy like CJ, we would have to tank like the Browns (and with their misfortune, they can't even succeed at tanking). Can a TE make up for a WR like CJ? Probably not. But you don't need a big WR to succeed. You just have to make him a threat, and automatically the rest of the WR will have more room to work with, and as a result, will perform better. What makes CJ so dangerous isn't just his play-making abilites or his ball skills, but the threat that he carries when he steps on the field. You have to double team him, and if the Lions had a QB who didn't just look for CJ on every play, the Lions would be a perrennial <sp> post-season team. 

[GoColts8818]

The same thing can be said about CJ as well. Just because one guy does, doesn't mean that every guy should be able to do it. Like Manning, CJ is also the outlier, a once in a lifetime kind of a football player, the same way Gronk is a once in a generation-caliber football player (has the potential to become anyway).

 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing but simply having a TE like Fleener, and if we can get a O-Line that doesn't require Fleener to block, can adequetly compensate for not having a target like CJ. To get a guy like CJ, we would have to tank like the Browns (and with their misfortune, they can't even succeed at tanking). Can a TE make up for a WR like CJ? Probably not. But you don't need a big WR to succeed. You just have to make him a threat, and automatically the rest of the WR will have more room to work with, and as a result, will perform better. What makes CJ so dangerous isn't just his play-making abilites or his ball skills, but the threat that he carries when he steps on the field. You have to double team him, and if the Lions had a QB who didn't just look for CJ on every play, the Lions would be a perrennial <sp> post-season team. 

Where did I ever say the Colts had to go get Calvin Johnson?  I never have in fact I have gone out of my way to say they don't have to go get a guy like Bowe who isn't even as good as Johnson.  What I have said is that if the Colts are going to add another WR which they are probably going to have to do if they let Avery walk they might as well get one that isn't like what they have already.  If they get another speed guy he's going to get lost behind the other two guys ahead of him on the depth chart.  You build a good team by getting guys who can do different things so when someone shuts down one of those things you have something else you can go too.  It would help Luck to have a WR with some size to him that he can use on the outside.  It's just one more thing that other teams would have to account for when they play the Colts. Does that guy need to be Calvin Johnson?  It would be nice if it was but no it's not a requirement. 

[BOTT]

WR this, WR that, TE this and TE that, doesn't do any good when the QB is on the ground or running for his life, offensive line is the ultimate players the Colts need, you all watching the Den-Rav game? Both their o-lines are doing great at giving the QB's time to do what they do, and the RB's some holes.

 

We all can speculate, (which is fun to do) but until it's the Colts pick if it's 24th or a trade to a higher one which I doubt since who we got no one to trade. We are at the Mercy of the teams before the Colts pick to determine who Colts end up getting, who all thought C.Fleener wouldn't be there and to also get the better TE D.Allen in the 3rd. And if Chapmen works out, "got fingers crossed" he also would be a steal. So we'll see what happens this coming draft, If Colts could somehow get FA R.Clady Grigson would be a god :}LOL

 

Go Colts!!!!!

 

Ps. Is R.Clady if franchised by Denver and signed by Denver is he worth trading the 24th pick to Denver for R.Clady, at least he's established and known to be good, he's only 26 YO, Humm????? Going to be a nail biting off season!!!!! I trust Grigson!!!!!

The ps part is a bit delusional

[esmort]

WR this, WR that, TE this and TE that, doesn't do any good when the QB is on the ground or running for his life, offensive line is the ultimate players the Colts need, you all watching the Den-Rav game? Both their o-lines are doing great at giving the QB's time to do what they do, and the RB's some holes.

 

We all can speculate, (which is fun to do) but until it's the Colts pick if it's 24th or a trade to a higher one which I doubt since who we got no one to trade. We are at the Mercy of the teams before the Colts pick to determine who Colts end up getting, who all thought C.Fleener wouldn't be there and to also get the better TE D.Allen in the 3rd. And if Chapmen works out, "got fingers crossed" he also would be a steal. So we'll see what happens this coming draft, If Colts could somehow get FA R.Clady Grigson would be a god :}LOL

 

Go Colts!!!!!

 

Ps. Is R.Clady if franchised by Denver and signed by Denver is he worth trading the 24th pick to Denver for R.Clady, at least he's established and known to be good, he's only 26 YO, Humm????? Going to be a nail biting off season!!!!! I trust Grigson!!!!!

 

First off Clady is not leaving Denver, they will franchise him if they cannot work out a long term deal ... I don't know why people insist on thinking Clady is even a remote possibility. Secondly trading our first round pick for him would be a horrible move for us ... on top of giving up our 1st round pick(and not having a 2nd) we would still have to give him a ridiculously high contract. We could upgrade the entire O-Line for what this would cost us in draft picks & salary.

[leatherman]

what good is harvin gonna to when luck doesn't have the time in the pocket to get him the ball........

[trailertrash]

Where did I ever say the Colts had to go get Calvin Johnson?  I never have in fact I have gone out of my way to say they don't have to go get a guy like Bowe who isn't even as good as Johnson.  What I have said is that if the Colts are going to add another WR which they are probably going to have to do if they let Avery walk they might as well get one that isn't like what they have already.  If they get another speed guy he's going to get lost behind the other two guys ahead of him on the depth chart.  You build a good team by getting guys who can do different things so when someone shuts down one of those things you have something else you can go too.  It would help Luck to have a WR with some size to him that he can use on the outside.  It's just one more thing that other teams would have to account for when they play the Colts. Does that guy need to be Calvin Johnson?  It would be nice if it was but no it's not a requirement. 

I was just using CJ as an example. If you get Luck a good/great O-Line, I don't see why Fleener can't become a dominant Joker-TE (and he is more useful than a big WR since he can also block). I agree that we need a big body to give Luck a safety blanket, but my argument is simply to use the guy we already have and not waste a draft pick or $7+ Mill/year, and instead use the money to build a Patriot-esque O-Line. 

[GoColts8818]

I was just using CJ as an example. If you get Luck a good/great O-Line, I don't see why Fleener can't become a dominant Joker-TE (and he is more useful than a big WR since he can also block). I agree that we need a big body to give Luck a safety blanket, but my argument is simply to use the guy we already have and not waste a draft pick or $7+ Mill/year, and instead use the money to build a Patriot-esque O-Line. 

I didn't Fleener couldn't.  I am sure he can.  Even if Fleener does he's still going to play a tightend poistion and not play outside.  I am sure he will end up in the slot and down the seems a lot but I don't think he's going to spend much time as an outside WR.  He's clearly a weapon as well though.

 

With that said a big WR physical WR is a different kind of weapon that the Colts currently do not have on the roster.  If they had one and didn't have a tightend like Fleener I would be all for getting a tightend like Fleener because it's good to have as many different kinds of weapons as you can get. 

 

It's not going to be a wasted draft pick.  If they let Avery walk they are going to have three proven WRs on the roster in Wayne, HIlton, and Brazil.  Guys like Collie and Whalen might get a shot in camp but odds are you are going to have to add another WR some place.  I am saying if you are going to have to add another WR you might as well add the kind of WR you don't already have rather than adding a third undersized speed guy who isn't going to play because they already have two guys who do what he would do on the roster in HIlton and Brazil.  Does it have to be a first rounder?  No it can be a mid to late round pick. 

 

I am not saying they have to go get a big name free agent WR either so I don't know where you are getting that from.  I keep saying it doesn't have to be a guy like that. 

 

I will say this though.  Reggie Wayne has two years left on his deal and if you listen to Reggie talk you can tell it's clear he knows the end of his career is going to happen sooner rather than later.  Age is going to catch up to Reggie as well at some point.  You have to start thinking about how you are going to replace him.  IF and this is an IF a stud WR slips to the Colts in the first round they should at least think about it.  Does it mean you have to break your back to get one?  No but if you are in poistion to get one it wouldn't be a bad thing.  Clearly though if you are picking between a WR and say an OLB or OL man and you haven't addressed those needs in free agency then you almost have to go with the OLB or OL man because those are bigger needs. 

 

However, this thought of Luck has all the weapons he needs isn't 100% true.  He is set at tightend and probably RB but if Avery leaves WR, even if it's a back up WR does become a need due to simple numbers.  Just because it would be a need though doesn't mean the Colts have to break the bank or get a star player to address it.  They could easily do it with say their fifth round pick as well.  All I am simply saying is if you need to address that need you might as well get the kind of WR you don't currently have on the roster which is a guy with some size to him.  It would just be one more thing that other teams have to account for and the more things you have that other teams have to account for then the more deadly your offense becomes. 

[Balzer40]

I didn't Fleener couldn't.  I am sure he can.  Even if Fleener does he's still going to play a tightend poistion and not play outside.  I am sure he will end up in the slot and down the seems a lot but I don't think he's going to spend much time as an outside WR.  He's clearly a weapon as well though.

 

With that said a big WR physical WR is a different kind of weapon that the Colts currently do not have on the roster.  If they had one and didn't have a tightend like Fleener I would be all for getting a tightend like Fleener because it's good to have as many different kinds of weapons as you can get. 

 

It's not going to be a wasted draft pick.  If they let Avery walk they are going to have three proven WRs on the roster in Wayne, HIlton, and Brazil.  Guys like Collie and Whalen might get a shot in camp but odds are you are going to have to add another WR some place.  I am saying if you are going to have to add another WR you might as well add the kind of WR you don't already have rather than adding a third undersized speed guy who isn't going to play because they already have two guys who do what he would do on the roster in HIlton and Brazil.  Does it have to be a first rounder?  No it can be a mid to late round pick. 

 

I am not saying they have to go get a big name free agent WR either so I don't know where you are getting that from.  I keep saying it doesn't have to be a guy like that. 

 

I will say this though.  Reggie Wayne has two years left on his deal and if you listen to Reggie talk you can tell it's clear he knows the end of his career is going to happen sooner rather than later.  Age is going to catch up to Reggie as well at some point.  You have to start thinking about how you are going to replace him.  IF and this is an IF a stud WR slips to the Colts in the first round they should at least think about it.  Does it mean you have to break your back to get one?  No but if you are in poistion to get one it wouldn't be a bad thing.  Clearly though if you are picking between a WR and say an OLB or OL man and you haven't addressed those needs in free agency then you almost have to go with the OLB or OL man because those are bigger needs. 

 

However, this thought of Luck has all the weapons he needs isn't 100% true.  He is set at tightend and probably RB but if Avery leaves WR, even if it's a back up WR does become a need due to simple numbers.  Just because it would be a need though doesn't mean the Colts have to break the bank or get a star player to address it.  They could easily do it with say their fifth round pick as well.  All I am simply saying is if you need to address that need you might as well get the kind of WR you don't currently have on the roster which is a guy with some size to him.  It would just be one more thing that other teams have to account for and the more things you have that other teams have to account for then the more deadly your offense becomes. 

   Do you think Kris Adams can be that guy? I mean he's already on the roster(PS) and he's probably just as good as any mid to late rd. pick they can get from the draft. He certainly fits the mold at 6'3" and he has shown some flashes of ability. I guess I'm just saying that the guy you say the Colts are missing, may very well be hiding on the practice squad. I wouldn't be opposed to giving this kid another shot at making the roster.

[GoColts8818]

   Do you think Kris Adams can be that guy? I mean he's already on the roster(PS) and he's probably just as good as any mid to late rd. pick they can get from the draft. He certainly fits the mold at 6'3" and he has shown some flashes of ability. I guess I'm just saying that the guy you say the Colts are missing, may very well be hiding on the practice squad. I wouldn't be opposed to giving this kid another shot at making the roster.

I loved Adams last year till he quit on the pass play that resulted in him getting cut.  If he has worked threw that issue I would have zero issue with Adams being that guy.  Again I am just looking for a taller WR because the Colts don't have one on the main roster.  Where he comes from I don't really care.  If it means they had that guy and he just needed some develop all the better. 

[trailertrash]

I loved Adams last year till he quit on the pass play that resulted in him getting cut.  If he has worked threw that issue I would have zero issue with Adams being that guy.  Again I am just looking for a taller WR because the Colts don't have one on the main roster.  Where he comes from I don't really care.  If it means they had that guy and he just needed some develop all the better. 

One question: would you have gone for Stephen Hill or Alshon Jeffrey this year?

[GoColts8818]

One question: would you have gone for Stephen Hill or Alshon Jeffrey this year?

The Colts just needed WR help in general this past year I wouldn't have had a problem with either had we gone that way.  I had no problem with the way we did go either. 

 

I grew up a fan of Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne I know you don't have to be big to be good in this league at WR.  With that said when you have a roster that already has the tightends and quick WRs and a very good possession WR and the only thing you don't have a big tall WR and it looks like you need to add another WR (I don't see us keeping Avery) to me it makes sense to look for a guy who isn't what you already have.  Where the Colts get him I don't really care. 

[Gavin]

I personally don't think we go Offensive lineman in the 1st round.  I think we either grab an Ezekiel Ansah (speed rusher) or we grab a number 1 WR.  Arians already said he thinks Hilton can be a number 1 and I agree with that.  But we need 2 top shelf WR in this league and Reggie will be gone in a few years.  Does anyone really believe that Avery or Brazil is that caliber?  Avery will be gone soon enough and Brazil will be a 3rd receiver/slot guy probably.  I think if a Quinton Patton or Keenan Allen drops to us, we grab him.  We're set for the next decade.  We will still get our Olinemen this year, but just not in the 1st round.    

I really hope we dont spend a 1st round pick on some project player(who is nothing but a situational pass rusher to be honest and one who has has not put up the numbers to warrant a 1st round pick) just because he is deemed to be an athletic freak, ya go with a guy that has produced in my opinion in the 1st round