TJ Green & Antonio Morrison make NextGen Stats All-Rookie team

[TheOptimist88]

On 2/19/2017 at 0:09 PM, COLTS449 said:

So will someone explain this to me. We took a project DB in TJ Green. Why didn't we take Davis instead? Sean Davis was considered in the same boat with Green. Boom or bust, raw, over drafted, etc. But he balled this year in Pitt.

Pagano was raving like a mad man for Green, that's probably why.

[Chucklez]

On 2/18/2017 at 11:03 PM, Shepman said:

I think Landry was also credited with speed and long run downs.  Difference is Green is still Green.

I see what you did thar

[Steamboat_Shaun]

44 minutes ago, CR91 said:

The public census for grading a draft class says to wait atleast three years and we're calling them busts after one 

 

We live in a world of instant gratification. It probably doesn't help that all the "experts" out there grade every team's draft before any of the picks even set foot on the field.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Why are people comparing Landon Collins rookie year to greens? They're NOT comparable. Like I said in at least 2 other threads, Collins made plays and showed you flashes. Led the team in tackles, all rookie team. Go watch his highlight tape of his rookie year. Then go watch TJ's highlight tape of his rookie year. Oh there isn't one.

I hope TJ makes a big leap his 2nd year too, and it's possible obviously.. but I'm tired of that comparison. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 2/19/2017 at 10:09 AM, COLTS449 said:

So will someone explain this to me. We took a project DB in TJ Green. Why didn't we take Davis instead? Sean Davis was considered in the same boat with Green. Boom or bust, raw, over drafted, etc. But he balled this year in Pitt.

 

The defense needed to get faster, so they drafted the faster guy, and were willing to accept that he'd take longer to develop as a tradeoff for his freak athleticism. The plan was to gradually work him into the mix over the course of the year so he could be coached up & learn the scheme before seeing any significant playing time, but instead he was forced to be the week 1 starter.

[SteelCityColt]

For everyone pounding the table for Sean Davis, it's not like he had an outstanding rookie season either? 

[COLTS449]

6 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

For everyone pounding the table for Sean Davis, it's not like he had an outstanding rookie season either? 

 

He improved as the year went along, and showed some flashes and made some plays. He done a little of everything. PD's, INT, Sacks, stfs, etc. Green did none of that. Davis showed potential to be the Steelers starting FS for the next 10 years. IMO Davis comes out and breaks out with Pitt next year while TJ is playing special teams because of that speed he's got.

[COLTS449]

Size and Speed. Size and Speed. Size and Speed. Size and Speed. GIVE ME PRODUCTION BRO!!!!!!!

[Steamboat_Shaun]

13 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

Size and Speed. Size and Speed. Size and Speed. Size and Speed. GIVE ME PRODUCTION BRO!!!!!!!

 

Sean Davis had 1 pick & 1.5 sacks. I'm pretty confident that Green will be able to match that level of "production" in his 2nd year.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

13 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

Size and Speed. Size and Speed. Size and Speed. Size and Speed. GIVE ME PRODUCTION BRO!!!!!!!

Yup seems to be all alot of people care about; speed. Im sure my post will get ignored because it's not what people want to hear. 

[COLTS449]

In the top 5. We could have had. Instead of clowns like Morrison and Green, and don't come out with the hindsight bull. Howard and Robinson were both considered big time prospects, and Brown was clearly a talented ILB. The only player on this list you could make the hindsight argument with might be Hargrave, but again. Like Brown, he was clearly a talented player.

 

1 Ryan Kelly

2 Cody Whitehair

3 Javon Hargrave

4 Jordan Howard

4 Rashard Robinson (For those who don't know, he balled this year in San Fran as a rookie)

5 Jatavis Brown

[vtcoltsfan802]

6 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

In the top 5. We could have had. Instead of clowns like Morrison and Green, and don't come out with the hindsight bull. Howard and Robinson were both considered big time prospects, and Brown was clearly a talented ILB. The only player on this list you could make the hindsight argument with might be Hargrave, but again. Like Brown, he was clearly a talented player.

 

1 Ryan Kelly

2 Cody Whitehair

3 Javon Hargrave

4 Jordan Howard

4 Rashard Robinson (For those who don't know, he balled this year in San Fran as a rookie)

5 Jatavis Brown

You can LITERALLY say this about every teams draft for every year.  Thats the beauty of hindsight....  

 

Whitehair had his own question marks.

[CR91]

7 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

In the top 5. We could have had. Instead of clowns like Morrison and Green, and don't come out with the hindsight bull. Howard and Robinson were both considered big time prospects, and Brown was clearly a talented ILB. The only player on this list you could make the hindsight argument with might be Hargrave, but again. Like Brown, he was clearly a talented player.

 

1 Ryan Kelly

2 Cody Whitehair

3 Javon Hargrave

4 Jordan Howard

4 Rashard Robinson (For those who don't know, he balled this year in San Fran as a rookie)

5 Jatavis Brown

 

It's one year. The movie can be great in the beginning and terrible at the end or reverse in the case of green.

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

It's one year. The movie can be great in the beginning and terrible at the end or reverse in the case of green.

Yah I remember Ballards rookie year here in 2012, and how quickly his promising career fell apart. Thats why you always give the kids 3 yrs before you start saying "oh we could have had ___________"

[COLTS449]

2 hours ago, vtcoltsfan802 said:

You can LITERALLY say this about every teams draft for every year.  Thats the beauty of hindsight....  

 

Whitehair had his own question marks.

 

True. But he was also regarded as excellent in pass protection. The best pass protecting G in the class. Its not hindsight. Whitehair, Howard, and Robinson were all clearly talented players. IMO Whitehair was a 1st round talent and Howard and Robinson were 2nd-3rd round talent.

 

But I think when you're in the 4th and 5th rounds and up and there's a top 2-3 round talent sitting there like a Robinson, Howard. Or Tyreek Hill. Everyone knew that kid had the talent. Or Diggs or Ajayi from the year before you have to take them. Its like. Why did nobody draft Burfict in 2012? He was very talented. But anyway. you also have to have a good GM with good scouts to be able to find those gems like Denver did with Jackson, Trevathan, Harris Jr. etc. Or making moves to acquire Marshall at ILB. Guys who nobody thought much of.

 

All's I'm saying is there's a difference in a clearly talented, highly regarded player sitting there in the 4th round, and a gem who not many people seen the talent in you know. Example. Saying we should have taken Bradberry in the 2nd would be hindsight IMO. Its not hindsight to say we should have taken the best G in the class in R2. Or a CB with star potential in Robinson who had some off field stuff going on. Or a RB who was being compared to Arian Foster.

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Why are people comparing Landon Collins rookie year to greens? They're NOT comparable. Like I said in at least 2 other threads, Collins made plays and showed you flashes. Led the team in tackles, all rookie team. Go watch his highlight tape of his rookie year. Then go watch TJ's highlight tape of his rookie year. Oh there isn't one.

I hope TJ makes a big leap his 2nd year too, and it's possible obviously.. but I'm tired of that comparison. 

 

I disagree with this, vehemently. Collins was BAD as a rookie, bottom line, especially in coverage. The only reason anyone is so eager to point out the "flashes" he showed is because so many people were fans of his prior to the draft. Overall, he had a bad rookie year, period. 

 

Green showed "flashes" as a rookie. The only reason people won't acknowledge them is because they didn't like the pick.

 

Regardless, end of the day, the point is not that they are comparable as players. It's that players who have bad rookie years can and do get better, so it's dumb to act like they're finished products and write them off. Especially when it's a player who was raw to begin with, and who got on the field way earlier than anyone expected him to. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I disagree with this, vehemently. Collins was BAD as a rookie, bottom line, especially in coverage. The only reason anyone is so eager to point out the "flashes" he showed is because so many people were fans of his prior to the draft. Overall, he had a bad rookie year, period. 

 

Green showed "flashes" as a rookie. The only reason people won't acknowledge them is because they didn't like the pick.

 

Regardless, end of the day, the point is not that they are comparable as players. It's that players who have bad rookie years can and do get better, so it's dumb to act like they're finished products and write them off. Especially when it's a player who was raw to begin with, and who got on the field way earlier than anyone expected him to. 

Led the team in tackles, named to the all rookie team. But he was BAD? No, he was just bad in coverage. But he was the best rookie safety. Have no idea how you compare their rookie seasons. Green showed a third of the "flashes" that Collins did. I'm eager to point out his flashes, because he simply had them.. not because I was a fan of his... seems like you're wearing your blue tinted glasses on this one. 

 

And im just saying. One was a great college safety that had an actual decent rookie year(yeah he was bad in coverage) then went on to have a historic season. The other did not have a great college career as a safety at all. It's different. 

 Im not writing TJ off, just tired of that comparison. 

[SteelCityColt]

6 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Led the team in tackles, named to the all rookie team. But he was BAD? No, he was just bad in coverage. But he was the best rookie safety. Have no idea how you compare their rookie seasons. Green showed a third of the "flashes" that Collins did. I'm eager to point out his flashes, because he simply had them.. not because I was a fan of his... seems like you're wearing your blue tinted glasses on this one. 

 

And im just saying. One was a great college safety that had an actual decent rookie year(yeah he was bad in coverage) then went on to have a historic season. The other did not have a great college career as a safety at all. It's different. 

 Im not writing TJ off, just tired of that comparison. 

 

I wouldn't hang your hat on the All Rookie team thing, it is just after all an opinion piece. It's like people using the Pro Bowl to quantify how good a player is, it's just not a good yard stick. 

 

Comparing Collins to Green is silly anyway in some respects, I think the frustration is that posters find it perfectly acceptable to allow leeway for Collins as a rookie but not to allow the same to Green. 

[Finball]

32 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Led the team in tackles, named to the all rookie team. But he was BAD? No, he was just bad in coverage. But he was the best rookie safety. Have no idea how you compare their rookie seasons. Green showed a third of the "flashes" that Collins did. I'm eager to point out his flashes, because he simply had them.. not because I was a fan of his... seems like you're wearing your blue tinted glasses on this one. 

 

And im just saying. One was a great college safety that had an actual decent rookie year(yeah he was bad in coverage) then went on to have a historic season. The other did not have a great college career as a safety at all. It's different. 

 Im not writing TJ off, just tired of that comparison. 

 

I think he was named to all rookie team mostly because of his draft status and maybe tackle numbers (not always a good thing to have lot of those). I think Adrian Amos performed better as a rookie. Maybe Tartt, too.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

15 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I wouldn't hang your hat on the All Rookie team thing, it is just after all an opinion piece. It's like people using the Pro Bowl to quantify how good a player is, it's just not a good yard stick. 

 

Comparing Collins to Green is silly anyway in some respects, I think the frustration is that posters find it perfectly acceptable to allow leeway for Collins as a rookie but not to allow the same to Green. 

But still, he received it. Would green have? Never in a million years. It's just the point. And led the team in tackles. Totally different rookie seasons.

not trying to be a green hater. I hope he improves a bunch next season too. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

8 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

I think he was named to all rookie team mostly because of his draft status and maybe tackle numbers (not always a good thing to have lot of those). I think Adrian Amos performed better as a rookie. Maybe Tartt, too.

It probably was because he had soo many tackles. And made a good couple "highlight" plays. But I'm just trying to prove a point that his rookie season was a lot more impressive than Greens. Not comparable. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

Comparing Collins to Green is silly anyway in some respects, I think the frustration is that posters find it perfectly acceptable to allow leeway for Collins as a rookie but not to allow the same to Green. 

 

Considering Collins was projected to go in the 15-20th overall range, and Green was projected late 2nd, early 3rd, I would say that yes, comparing them is somewhat silly.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

Especially when it's a player who was raw to begin with, and who got on the field way earlier than anyone expected him to. 

 

The bolded part is probably the most frustrating thing on this forum. Seemingly everyone forgets, or just disregards the fact that Green was drafted to learn behind Adams and Geathers, not to be thrust into a week 1 starting role. There was a clear plan in place for him to learn and develop, and it had to be scrapped immediately due to a crazy amount of injuries to the secondary. The result: we all got to see a player who clearly wasn't ready to be a starter in the NFL.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

Too much hate in here.....simple as that.  If you are a fan of a team, you should support and hope for the players on the team to do well.  Anything else is sour grapes and hindsight.  I build homes for a living not NFL teams and if I agree or disagree with a pick, I wish them well as THEY ARE PART OF THE TEAM....some of you need to get over yourselves.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

15 hours ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

Too much hate in here.....simple as that.  If you are a fan of a team, you should support and hope for the players on the team to do well.  Anything else is sour grapes and hindsight.  I build homes for a living not NFL teams and if I agree or disagree with a pick, I wish them well as THEY ARE PART OF THE TEAM....some of you need to get over yourselves.

 

A lot of times I almost feel like people want certain draft picks to fail, which doesn't make any sense to me at all. Like if TJ Green ends up not being a good player by the end of his rookie deal, we will have wasted valuable resources drafting and trying to develop him, then that leaves a huge hole in our secondary that needs to be addressed. Why would anyone be rooting for that to happen?

[SteelCityColt]

6 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

A lot of times I almost feel like people want certain draft picks to fail, which doesn't make any sense to me at all. Like if TJ Green ends up not being a good player by the end of his rookie deal, we will have wasted valuable resources drafting and trying to develop him, then that leaves a huge hole in our secondary that needs to be addressed. Why would anyone be rooting for that to happen?

 

A very good point.

 

Green has been drafted, it's not like we can take him return him for a refund. Even if we ignore that he was forced into starting before he was reading, if posters truly believe he's as bad they make out then why aren't they calling for us to cut him? 

 

If you're willing to accept he's going to be on the team for at least next season and more than likely the season after there's no real point going on and on about how bad he was, especially in the off season. You'd think as fans of the team they'd be pulling for him to do well. Sadly I suspect some on here would rather be "right" than actually see us succeed, Internet points must have more value than your team winning these days...

[Andrew Luck fan club]

16 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Considering Collins was projected to go in the 15-20th overall range, and Green was projected late 2nd, early 3rd, I would say that yes, comparing them is somewhat silly.

I'm not the one who brought up the comparison. I'm the one saying it's dumb to compare them at all. 

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

Sadly I suspect some on here would rather be "right" than actually see us succeed, Internet points must have more value than your team winning these days...

 

That's exactly it. I will say though, in all fairness, I knew the direction this thread was going to go when I started it. I didn't think people were going to come flooding in to sing their praises of TJ Green and Antonio Morrison.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

7 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

A very good point.

 

Green has been drafted, it's not like we can take him return him for a refund. Even if we ignore that he was forced into starting before he was reading, if posters truly believe he's as bad they make out then why aren't they calling for us to cut him? 

 

If you're willing to accept he's going to be on the team for at least next season and more than likely the season after there's no real point going on and on about how bad he was, especially in the off season. You'd think as fans of the team they'd be pulling for him to do well. Sadly I suspect some on here would rather be "right" than actually see us succeed, Internet points must have more value than your team winning these days...

I've said at least twice I hope Green improves leaps and bounds next season. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Just now, Majin Vegeta said:

I'm not the one who brought up the comparison. I'm the one saying it's dumb to compare them at all. 

 

There's definitley a lineage there considering EVERYONE here, including myself, wanted the Colts to take Landon Collins in the '15 draft. He's the safety we all wanted, but TJ Green (and Clayton Geathers) are the safeties that we got. So comparing them based on that is valid.

[SteelCityColt]

1 minute ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I've said at least twice I hope Green improves leaps and bounds next season. 

 

It was a bit of a sweeping generalisation on my part to be fair.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

A lot of times I almost feel like people want certain draft picks to fail, which doesn't make any sense to me at all. Like if TJ Green ends up not being a good player by the end of his rookie deal, we will have wasted valuable resources drafting and trying to develop him, then that leaves a huge hole in our secondary that needs to be addressed. Why would anyone be rooting for that to happen?

I agree and I know SteelCity wrote this above....I have been saying since I joined here that there are some members that would rather be right than to see a player they don't like succeed.  I personally feel the opposite, as there have been many draft picks and FA Signings that I didn't agree with, but they were Colts and I wanted them to succeed to help the team.