SkyBane Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 14 minutes ago, Myles said: What did other free agents do on the Colts? I mean, and that needs qualifying too. Is he talking about just last year? Because Kendall Langford played to his contract I'd say. Mike Adams and Dwight Lowery were also pretty good for us, too. If you are talking previous years too, Erik Walden, Jerell Freeman, and D'Qwell Jackson all had a good-decent year. If you want to take issue with the Herremans and Cole type deals, you also have to take in to account the massive positive impact a lot of Grigson's free agent signings have brought as well. It's just the double edged nature of free agency showing it's face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will426 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Well if you haven't noticed gore isn't just between the tackles back he also has the vision to find the cutback lane..and being that he's a power back who knows how to cut back him vs that one defender on a stretch run I choose him to power through that tackle for a good gain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esmort Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 8 hours ago, Smonroe said: I think he's experienced enough to pick up the new blocking schemes, and to be honest, I don't think it's going to change much in the run game. But in the long run, wouldn't it be nice to find his successor now? I'm not talking about picking up a guy in the 3-5th round and hoping he a hidden gem. Around the 3rd round is not hidden gem RBs, the 3rd (or later) is where we should be looking for a starting RB ... 1st round on a RB would be a complete waste. Even 2nd round would be questionable unless someone unforseen fell into our laps. I can't believe some people are actually advocating using our 1st on a RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBane Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 7 minutes ago, esmort said: Around the 3rd round is not hidden gem RBs, the 3rd (or later) is where we should be looking for a starting RB ... 1st round on a RB would be a complete waste. Even 2nd round would be questionable unless someone unforseen fell into our laps. I can't believe some people are actually advocating using our 1st on a RB. A lot of people are stuck in the late 80's- early 90's when it comes to football philosophy. The days of the bell cow back are largely done for the forseeable future, meaning that the RB position just doesn't have the impact it used to. Given that 1st round picks are generally reserved for high impact players, you have to be an exceptional talent at RB to even be considered in the 1st round. We're talking surefire pro bowler, only once every few drafts type exceptional. The 3rd round is a perfectly reasonable spot to go fishing for RB talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Denton Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 11 minutes ago, esmort said: Around the 3rd round is not hidden gem RBs, the 3rd (or later) is where we should be looking for a starting RB ... 1st round on a RB would be a complete waste. Even 2nd round would be questionable unless someone unforseen fell into our laps. I can't believe some people are actually advocating using our 1st on a RB. Are you telling us that you would have passed on Faulk and Edge when the Colts drafted them in the first round ? I'm not saying that there is a RB of that caliber in this draft but no one really knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBane Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Just now, Tracy Denton said: Are you telling us that you would have passed on Faulk and Edge when the Colts drafted them in the first round ? I'm not saying that there is a RB of that caliber in this draft but know one really knows. Different era. Runningback stock has fallen dramatically with the rules changes, and the wear and tear they put on their bodies gives them a short shelf life. It's just no longer economical to put that much stock in the position, when you can get similar production from a committee of 2-3 more specialized backs. The Falk's and James's of the world will only show up every few years now, and it's rare to see a RB go in the first because there is other positions you can fill that will simply do more for your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Denton Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 7 minutes ago, SkyBane said: Different era. Runningback stock has fallen dramatically with the rules changes, and the wear and tear they put on their bodies gives them a short shelf life. It's just no longer economical to put that much stock in the position, when you can get similar production from a committee of 2-3 more specialized backs. The Falk's and James's of the world will only show up every few years now, and it's rare to see a RB go in the first because there is other positions you can fill that will simply do more for your team. That being said, I would still take a Faulk or a James instead of 2-3 backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBane Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Just now, Tracy Denton said: That being said, I would still take a Faulk or a James instead of 2-3 backs. Everyone would. They just aren't willing to risk a 1st round pick on it anymore, because the risk/reward scales have tipped. It's just how it is these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live and let live Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 3 hours ago, ProblChld32 said: Why would you cut the most productive RB that this franchise has seen in quite some time? Age. I don't think his YPC indicate a very productive running back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live and let live Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Myles said: What did other free agents do on the Colts? Nothing. That was the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live and let live Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 3 hours ago, Pelt said: Your comparison is to Richardson? Richardson couldn't get any yards per carry because he stunk. Gore did pretty well considering he was running behind a line that cost us numerous injuries to numerous QBs - not to mention the change in offensive coordinators mid-way through the season. TRich had about the same YPC as Gore as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBane Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, Live and let live said: Age. I don't think his YPC indicate a very productive running back. 3.7 YPC was about the average for the NFL last year, and he did it behind a below average run blocking line. To say Frank Gore wasn't productive is a farse 1 minute ago, Live and let live said: TRich had about the same YPC as Gore as I recall. TRich had 3.3 YPC during his last year as a Colt. Gore's 3.7 YPC is a decent sized upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Denton Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, SkyBane said: Everyone would. They just aren't willing to risk a 1st round pick on it anymore, because the risk/reward scales have tipped. It's just how it is these days. I understand what your saying, but the RB role hasn't changed that much, they still run,block and catch like they always have. If anything, I think that maybe they get too many miles on them in collage ?? I don't know, but the draft is a roll of the dice in any round, I have always had the opinion that ...I don't care what round a player is drafted, as long as they are good, who cares ? It will all pan out in the 2nd contract, especially today's NFL with the rookie wage scale and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 12 minutes ago, Live and let live said: Age. I don't think his YPC indicate a very productive running back. Lucks TD/INT didn't indicate a very productive quarterback. Wanna dump him too. Did you watch any games or do you just go off of stat lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBane Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, Tracy Denton said: I understand what your saying, but the RB role hasn't changed that much, they still run,block and catch like they always have. If anything, I think that maybe they get too many miles on them in collage ?? I don't know, but the draft is a roll of the dice in any round, I have always had the opinion that ...I don't care what round a player is drafted, as long as they are good, who cares ? It will all pan out in the 2nd contract, especially today's NFL with the rookie wage scale and all. Yeah, part of it is definitely they take a lot of abuse in high school and college. The other part is just what you said; what the RB does hasn't changed much. The problem with that is, the metagame of football has changed quite a bit. It's simply not the same game it was when Smith, Faulk, James, et. al. were drafted. So while Runningbacks do largely the same thing they've always done, the game has shifted to value what they do less. So you've kind of got a position that is necessary for balance, but is no longer as desirable as creating a viable passing game, has an alternative, easier to find solution, and the players in that position have a shorter shelf life than just about any other position in the game. You've got a choice between that, or another a player at another position who will on average be more durable, harder to replace, and effect the outcome of the game more reliably. Which would you take? 2 minutes ago, Myles said: Lucks TD/INT didn't indicate a very productive quarterback. Wanna dump him too. Did you watch any games or do you just go off of stat lines? Given that he said 3.7 YPC is similar to 3.3 YPC, I don't think he knows how RB stats work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esmort Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 58 minutes ago, Tracy Denton said: Are you telling us that you would have passed on Faulk and Edge when the Colts drafted them in the first round ? I'm not saying that there is a RB of that caliber in this draft but no one really knows. If I was drafting during that era probably not. In today's NFL ... yes, unless I was stacked at most other positions and could make a luxury pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live and let live Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 35 minutes ago, Myles said: Lucks TD/INT didn't indicate a very productive quarterback. Wanna dump him too. Did you watch any games or do you just go off of stat lines? I watch a lot of games. I also am dubious about Luck. I am not sure he will ever recover completely. He has been beaten up for years (some of it is his own fault). I am not advocating "dumping" him because he is young. Gore is very old for a running back and he has a ton of miles on those legs. Sooner or later (sooner being my bet), he will slip and he will start getting hurt all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live and let live Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 46 minutes ago, SkyBane said: 3.7 YPC was about the average for the NFL last year, and he did it behind a below average run blocking line. To say Frank Gore wasn't productive is a farse TRich had 3.3 YPC during his last year as a Colt. Gore's 3.7 YPC is a decent sized upgrade. Yeah, that is about 14 inches per carry. I didn't say he wasn't productive this year. I said the Colts were very lucky to get that much out of him. The odds of that happening again are very low. I would drop him and draft a running back who will do just as well or close. It doesn't make much sense to have a Frank Gore on a team that is going through a major rebuild at this point. You get younger and you keep working the draft. I hope that they don't sign any free agents this year unless they are young and very cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBane Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 1 minute ago, Live and let live said: Yeah, that is about 14 inches per carry. I didn't say he wasn't productive this year. I said the Colts were very lucky to get that much out of him. The odds of that happening again are very low. I would drop him and draft a running back who will do just as well or close. It doesn't make much sense to have a Frank Gore on a team that is going through a major rebuild at this point. You get younger and you keep working the draft. I hope that they don't sign any free agents this year unless they are young and very cheap. Okay, at this point, you're either trolling or very uneducated. 1) 3.3 ypc is far less than 3.7 ypc. Like a ton. All star caliber backs are in the 3.9-4.0 range, 3.5 is considered the bare minimum of workable. Each .1 in YPC is incredibly valuable, and going from 3.3 to 3.7 is basically going from an F to a C. Huge upgrade. 2) You did in fact say we didn't get much out of him. In fact you also said we didn't get anything from Kendall Langford, Mike Adams, or Dwight Lowery, all free agent acquisitions that made some key contributions on defense, but "did nothing" according to you. 3) The odds of Frank Gore repeating his performance from this year are not very low. They are in fact decent to high, especially if we pick up a mid round back to split the load with him. To intimate otherwise is simply blind guessing with no data behind it, other than looking at his age. Yes he's old, but thus far, Frank Gore has proven to be extremely durable. 4)Dropping him would cost the team $3 million in dead money this year. You can either pay Frank Gore to provide solid running for $4 million, or pay him $3 million to do nothing for you. You save no money by cutting him, and risk losing a solid producer at the RB position. This is just terrible risk/reward and cap management. 5) The team is not undergoing a major rebuild, particularly on offense. If they were, Grigson and Pagano would not have gotten extensions this offseason, and there would be more talk of roster cullings from base camp. I don't know where you got this idea from, but it's hilariously inaccurate 6) Young free agents are cheap unless they are bad. We will sign older free agents to fill holes because every team does it, that's how you fill holes in your roster. If a young player is good, the team that drafted them signs them to an extension and they never hit free agency. What you want simply doesn't happen in the real world. In summary, if you are going to argue for something, at least have half a leg to stand on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douzer Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Gore is why this team didn't end up 5-11 this year. The team has real needs to address in this offseason and RB is not even close to the top of that list. With Gore, Bradshaw, Heron, Varga & Williams are all under contract, only smaller moves, if any, are merited this go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBane Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 5 minutes ago, Douzer said: Gore is why this team didn't end up 5-11 this year. The team has real needs to address in this offseason and RB is not even close to the top of that list. With Gore, Bradshaw, Heron, Varga & Williams are all under contract, only smaller moves, if any, are merited this go around. For the record, Bradshaw and Heron are Free Agents, and not under contract. We would need to re sign them if we want to keep them. Heron is an RFA, however, it will be interesting to see if we tender him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douzer Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 13 minutes ago, SkyBane said: For the record, Bradshaw and Heron are Free Agents, and not under contract. We would need to re sign them if we want to keep them. Heron is an RFA, however, it will be interesting to see if we tender him. Fair enough. They're still on the current roster though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBane Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 1 minute ago, Douzer said: Fair enough. They're still on the current roster though. I'm almost certain we let Bradshaw walk. There's a couple free agent RB's we could target to partner with Gore, as people have mentioned, or we could go fishing in rounds 3-5 for a RB. Your larger point is correct though. There's several options for depth at RB, and hitting the panic button on that position is a rather silly notion at this point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Denton Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 1 hour ago, SkyBane said: Yeah, part of it is definitely they take a lot of abuse in high school and college. The other part is just what you said; what the RB does hasn't changed much. The problem with that is, the metagame of football has changed quite a bit. It's simply not the same game it was when Smith, Faulk, James, et. al. were drafted. So while Runningbacks do largely the same thing they've always done, the game has shifted to value what they do less. So you've kind of got a position that is necessary for balance, but is no longer as desirable as creating a viable passing game, has an alternative, easier to find solution, and the players in that position have a shorter shelf life than just about any other position in the game. You've got a choice between that, or another a player at another position who will on average be more durable, harder to replace, and effect the outcome of the game more reliably. Which would you take? Given that he said 3.7 YPC is similar to 3.3 YPC, I don't think he knows how RB stats work. I would take the Hall of famer's. IMO, you want the very best at every position, which goes back to my first reply to the post, if the best player on the board in the 1st round is a RB (and we could use one) why pass ? I think people care too much of the round a player is taken, I don't care if our best player of the draft haul is a 1st round,7th round pic or even a undrafted, as long as they are productive, why does it matter ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Denton Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 23 minutes ago, Douzer said: Fair enough. They're still on the current roster though. I think they are still listed on the roster because the new NFL year hasn't started yet, maybe in March ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim scheurich Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I like franc gore, no o-line and still almost had 1000 yrds. vet player has seen almost everything. tough, one of the few players on offense that, get hit that much, finished the season. I don't know if hes a 1000 yrd back, but hed be an excellent short yrd back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Denton Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 1 minute ago, jim scheurich said: I like franc gore, no o-line and still almost had 1000 yrds. vet player has seen almost everything. tough, one of the few players on offense that, get hit that much, finished the season. I don't know if hes a 1000 yrd back, but hed be an excellent short yrd back. Also was playing with a broken hand, which "could" explain the fumbles and dropped pass's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanFromtheWasteland Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 11 hours ago, Smonroe said: I think he's experienced enough to pick up the new blocking schemes, and to be honest, I don't think it's going to change much in the run game. But in the long run, wouldn't it be nice to find his successor now? I'm not talking about picking up a guy in the 3-5th round and hoping he a hidden gem. Yes it would be nice. I am tired of them re-signing Bradshaw just to see him injured........again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim scheurich Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 3 minutes ago, Tracy Denton said: Also was playing with a broken hand, which "could" explain the fumbles and dropped pass's. new system for frank, didn't have a lot of time to mesh with one q.b., or o-line for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 With an upgraded line and a healthy Luck, I could see Gore rushing for 1200-1300 yards. Nearly 1000 yards on a new team without a line or QB is pretty amazing really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Denton Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 3 minutes ago, FanFromtheWasteland said: Yes it would be nice. I am tired of them re-signing Bradshaw just to see him injured........again I agree !! but I also don't mind the Bradshaw rentals, It don't cost much and he is very productive the short time he is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live and let live Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 1 minute ago, Myles said: With an upgraded line and a healthy Luck, I could see Gore rushing for 1200-1300 yards. Nearly 1000 yards on a new team without a line or QB is pretty amazing really. I think anything over 750 yards would be a bonus. I would bet a lot of money that he never approaches those numbers again. That doesn't mean that he isn't very good but the Colts need to get younger. Now, if there is no cap advantage in moving him them keep him by all means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Denton Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 1 minute ago, Live and let live said: I think anything over 750 yards would be a bonus. I would bet a lot of money that he never approaches those numbers again. That doesn't mean that he isn't very good but the Colts need to get younger. Now, if there is no cap advantage in moving him them keep him by all means. I'll take that action !! He was 33 yards from 1000 this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I want in on that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live and let live Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 1 minute ago, Myles said: I want in on that too. I was willing to bet that he doesn't get 1200 to 1300 yards next year. I still am. Don't get me wrong here, I really like Frank Gore. I just think the Colts would be better served by going younger and cheaper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I wouldn't bet on him getting 1200+ yards, but it would not surprise me. He's done it almost every other year of his career. I don't think there is a running back in the league today who would have gotten 1300 yards on the 2015 Colts team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakai432 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 8 hours ago, ProblChld32 said: Why would you cut the most productive RB that this franchise has seen in quite some time? Just because, GOSH!!!! I'm super cereal, you do it because you can........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron11 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 yet another year we arnt going to have a 1000 yard rusher. probably wont have one hit 100 in a game either unless we draft one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron11 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 4 hours ago, Tracy Denton said: I'll take that action !! He was 33 yards from 1000 this year. took him a lot of carries to get there gore was ranked 36th among backs in ypc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelDragon Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I'm looking forward to Gore playing with an improved line, a healthy #12, and a full season with Chud at OC. Gore was my favorite player last year and I think he's going to take out some frustrations on opposing defenses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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