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#41 HireBruceArians

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:02 PM

The line also needs to hold up for more than five seconds for this to work.

That is not, at all, even remotely realistic. Three seconds is considered solid protection in the NFL. Any offense calling for five or more seconds of pass protection every play is seriously flawed to begin with.

This is the same problem that the steelers had last year. With the smaller speed receivers, you can rack up big yards but in the red zone it gets harder because they dont have the space to operate in. When Fleener and Allen get more experience it will help. Also improved line play will give more time for receivers to get open. Although it seems to be a sin sometimes to say it here, getting a WR like Allen would help both in Red Zone plays and on third downs. A guy who can go up and get the ball. A lot of analysts are starting to say it too. Not saying it will happen but who knows. An offense who scores 25-30 points per game does help the D


Well, if you look at the Steelers now, you see that Heath Miller is off to a career year, now that Arians is gone. We've always had small receivers here in Indy and haven't struggled in the redzone like we have this year. The reason being, we actually used our TE's as primary targets in the redzone in the past. Arians doesn't do that (for whatever reason) and our offense suffers for it.

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#42 corgi

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

That is not, at all, even remotely realistic. Three seconds is considered solid protection in the NFL. Any offense calling for five or more seconds of pass protection every play is seriously flawed to begin with.



Well, if you look at the Steelers now, you see that Heath Miller is off to a career year, now that Arians is gone. We've always had small receivers here in Indy and haven't struggled in the redzone like we have this year. The reason being, we actually used our TE's as primary targets in the redzone in the past. Arians doesn't do that (for whatever reason) and our offense suffers for it.


Other lines hold up much longer than 3 seconds, but to appease your post the line needs to hold up for more than 1.5 seconds.

"A man’s character is not judged after he celebrates a victory, but by what he does when his back is against the wall. So no matter how great the setback, how severe the failure, you never give up.

You never give up, you pick yourself up, you brush yourself off, you push forward, you move on, you adapt, you overcome, that is what I believe!"


#43 braveheartcolt

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:00 PM

That is not, at all, even remotely realistic. Three seconds is considered solid protection in the NFL. Any offense calling for five or more seconds of pass protection every play is seriously flawed to begin with.



Well, if you look at the Steelers now, you see that Heath Miller is off to a career year, now that Arians is gone. We've always had small receivers here in Indy and haven't struggled in the redzone like we have this year. The reason being, we actually used our TE's as primary targets in the redzone in the past. Arians doesn't do that (for whatever reason) and our offense suffers for it.


Wild guess here, but maybe Peyton had something to do with it more than it being a negative on Arians.....
"If I make a comment and it is not backed up by factual evidence, take it as my opinion, and my opinion only"....

#44 Superman

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:14 PM

Wild guess here, but maybe Peyton had something to do with it more than it being a negative on Arians.....


Not only that, but we have two rookie tight ends and a rookie quarterback.

Our red zone struggles shouldn't be surprising. It's one of the few areas where the results actually reflect the circumstances of the team. I'm more surprised that we're performing well in crucial situations, with comebacks in the 4th quarter and stops in must-have situations.

Watch a team like the Cowboys, with veteran players all over the offense. They are top ten in total offense and total defense, but they commit stupid penalties on both sides of the ball, they turn it over with the game on the line, and they don't know how to finish games. They are significantly more talented than the Colts, but don't play with anywhere near the poise that we do. This is the most surprising thing about this team, if you ask me.

I think our red zone offense will continue to improve as time goes on. In a couple years, we should be among the best in the league. The tight ends will have a lot do do with that. Hopefully Arians will start paying attention to his charting and stop using empty sets on big downs. All of this will play a big part in our improvement.
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#45 braveheartcolt

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:23 PM

Yeah, the empty back field is starting to vex me a little.
"If I make a comment and it is not backed up by factual evidence, take it as my opinion, and my opinion only"....

#46 chad72

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:27 PM

Well, if you look at the Steelers now, you see that Heath Miller is off to a career year, now that Arians is gone. We've always had small receivers here in Indy and haven't struggled in the redzone like we have this year. The reason being, we actually used our TE's as primary targets in the redzone in the past. Arians doesn't do that (for whatever reason) and our offense suffers for it.


Good observation.

I do think once our O-line gets more reliable, the TEs will not be at the LOS most of the time and can be split out as flankers more often like Dallas Clark. That is when Fleener will become more effective as a receiving threat. Till that happens, with our current O-line and current state of an evolving offensive system, Fleener's ceiling will be limited, IMO.

The goal however will be to get to that point where Fleener would be used more to exploit the seams as a flanker instead of helping with blocking too much. That is why Allen seems to see more snaps in the current state of offense (injury to Fleener aside).

#47 Superman

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:31 PM

Good observation.

I do think once our O-line gets more reliable, the TEs will not be at the LOS most of the time and can be split out as flankers more often like Dallas Clark. That is when Fleener will become more effective as a receiving threat. Till that happens, with our current O-line and current state of an evolving offensive system, Fleener's ceiling will be limited, IMO.

The goal however will be to get to that point where Fleener would be used more to exploit the seams as a flanker instead of helping with blocking too much. That is why Allen seems to see more snaps in the current state of offense (injury to Fleener aside).


Yup. Allen was on the field more than Fleener for two or three games in a row, mostly because he's the one being used in single tight end formations. I haven't seen Fleener split out wide very often at all, and I figured that would be a significant part of our attack. Especially without Collie.
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#48 HireBruceArians

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:36 PM

Other lines hold up much longer than 3 seconds, but to appease your post the line needs to hold up for more than 1.5 seconds.


Anyone that's played football knows that 2.5-3 seconds is considered standard pass protection. Any sack occurring past 3 seconds is probably the QB holding the ball too long. This isn't Madden

Wild guess here, but maybe Peyton had something to do with it more than it being a negative on Arians.....


Until you look at Arians track record and realize his offenses have always struggled in the redzone. I understand this team is young, but this has always been a major blemish on Arians' resume, even with experienced rosters.

#49 corgi

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 07:38 PM

Anyone that's played football knows that 2.5-3 seconds is considered standard pass protection. Any sack occurring past 3 seconds is probably the QB holding the ball too long. This isn't Madden



Until you look at Arians track record and realize his offenses have always struggled in the redzone. I understand this team is young, but this has always been a major blemish on Arians' resume, even with experienced rosters.


Well when I was earning my degree in Football I promised myself I would never make incorrect pass-protection related remarks. I don't play Madden btw. Sorry my 5 seconds remark offended you Coach Goodman. But your football playing, and my non-football playing got us both to the same forum so have a coke and a smile and let it go. :rantoff: :monkeydance:

"A man’s character is not judged after he celebrates a victory, but by what he does when his back is against the wall. So no matter how great the setback, how severe the failure, you never give up.

You never give up, you pick yourself up, you brush yourself off, you push forward, you move on, you adapt, you overcome, that is what I believe!"


#50 HireBruceArians

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:06 PM

Well when I was earning my degree in Football I promised myself I would never make incorrect pass-protection related remarks. I don't play Madden btw. Sorry my 5 seconds remark offended you Coach Goodman. But your football playing, and my non-football playing got us both to the same forum so have a coke and a smile and let it go. :rantoff: :monkeydance:


Yikes.. You should probably take your own advise. Did I hit a nerve?

#51 corgi

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:38 PM

Yikes.. You should probably take your own advise. Did I hit a nerve?


Yep you drew first blood. :strong:

"A man’s character is not judged after he celebrates a victory, but by what he does when his back is against the wall. So no matter how great the setback, how severe the failure, you never give up.

You never give up, you pick yourself up, you brush yourself off, you push forward, you move on, you adapt, you overcome, that is what I believe!"


#52 Warhorse

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:46 PM

Alright folks.....lets get to the football talk again. I like the part where we are comparing tenths of seconds......

Just kiddin. I think that each play has its own identity. Sometimes, 2 secs is holding the ball too long, sometimes throwing the ball at 3 secs is too soon. 4 man front? 3? 5? Did we keep a TE in? A RB in?

Stats to me are only good for trends, not specific plays. JMO.

"Anyone a die harder fan? I will be there believing to the end. Who is with me?" Thread started by Steveeoaktree33 at 2:49 PM of the day the Colts executed the second largest comeback in NFL playoff history. Very few concurred.







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