Trade Freeney to Tampa?

[Gavin]

in your opinion.. it seems the FO feels otherwise

well we will see, I sure would hate to see 14 million dollars go to waste, I would much rather have someone thats experienced in the 3-4 hybrid or at least standing up from time to time then a 4-3 pass rusher

[unitas-we-stand]

Im tired of people just writing good players off because of their age our how much money they make. Its hateful and not really giving them a chance at showing what they have to bring to the table. If he wasn't worth what they were paying him they would do something about it! After everything he has done for our team you would think people would show a little more gratitude

[Gavin]

Im tired of people just writing good players off because of their age our how much money they make. Its hateful and not really giving them a chance at showing what they have to bring to the table. If he wasn't worth what they were paying him they would do something about it! After everything he has done for our team you would think people would show a little more gratitude

Its a business, you do whats best for your business, Id be all for keeping him if he wasnt making 14 million dollars in a defense he has never played before, hes been great for us for years but hes never been in a 3-4 or played linebacker 14 million dollars for 1 year is crazy, what if he dont like the defense? then hes gone and so is 14 million dollars and how do you think the Steelers have been good for so long, they draft well and are willing to release long time veterans heck they were going to release Hines Ward it happens, its business and you do whats best for that business

[unitas-we-stand]

Yes I understand that but my point is that fans do not give the players that were good last year a chance to even show anything before they are prepared to just write them off. Like I said before if management didn't see him adjusting they would have done something about it. And we are not any other team, as long as I've been following the horseshoe we have had more integrity than that!

[Gavin]

Yes I understand that but my point is that fans do not give the players that were good last year a chance to even show anything before they are prepared to just write them off. Like I said before if management didn't see him adjusting they would have done something about it. And we are not any other team, as long as I've been following the horseshoe we have had more integrity than that!

so releasing a guy who will be 33 years old at the end of the year whos making 14 million dollars for one year means a person doesnt have integrity? Also like I said, Id love to see what he could do this year but not at 14 million dollars. My guess is they didnt like the trade offers they were getting for him, but they werent going to get much anyway when you take into account his money and age and 1 year left on his contract

[coltnorth]

In this league a great pass rush equals wins. The giants and 49ers showed that. If Freeney is effective and if the budget works, great. My guess is if he looks good in camp, he will sign a new deal then. The club doesn't want to cut him

[JoKeR]

There's no one to use the extra cap space anyways.

[Fx Stryker]

Its a business, you do whats best for your business, Id be all for keeping him if he wasnt making 14 million dollars in a defense he has never played before, hes been great for us for years but hes never been in a 3-4 or played linebacker 14 million dollars for 1 year is crazy, what if he dont like the defense? then hes gone and so is 14 million dollars and how do you think the Steelers have been good for so long, they draft well and are willing to release long time veterans heck they were going to release Hines Ward it happens, its business and you do whats best for that business

Who are we going to spend the $14M on this year then?

[Gavin]

Who are we going to spend the $14M on this year then?

the idea is not to spend it this year but to save it for the end of the year for a potential free agent we may want, wouldnt you like that 14 million extra to spend in free agency if needed

[Fx Stryker]

the idea is not to spend it this year but to save it for the end of the year for a potential free agent we may want, wouldnt you like that 14 million extra to spend in free agency if needed

What? It doesn't carry over to next season. So what is the point in "saving" it? Keeping Freeney or not we still get the $14M in free agency next year.

[Gavin]

What? It doesn't carry over to next season. So what is the point in "saving" it? Keeping Freeney or not we still get the $14M in free agency next year.

How do you figure that, from everything I read it comes off if he is here

[Fx Stryker]

How do you figure that, from everything I read it comes off if he is here

In 2013 he is a free agent, and no $14M contract counting against us. So therefor there is no benefit of cutting him this year. No one to spend the money on.

[Gavin]

http://www.stampedeb...anchise-in-2012 Free Agent at the end of this coming season but yes that is in 2013 but actually the 2012 league year

[willysp]

Im tired of people just writing good players off because of their age our how much money they make. Its hateful and not really giving them a chance at showing what they have to bring to the table. If he wasn't worth what they were paying him they would do something about it! After everything he has done for our team you would think people would show a little more gratitude

What are your specific suggestions as to how we optimimize his performance as a Colt, or his value as a trade? It's well documented that Bill Polian way overpaid a number of players - and Freeney is towards the top of that list. So, again, your specific actions are .... _____________ _______ _______ ?

Also - how many years would it take you to make $14M / 19M ??????? Does that affect your view of his value? It certainly does for me!!!

Having said all that, we will not get any significant value for him in a trade given his salary (thanks again, Bill). So, he's ours for the year.

Thanks.

[Fx Stryker]

What are your specific suggestions as to how we optimimize his performance as a Colt, or his value as a trade? It's well documented that Bill Polian way overpaid a number of players - and Freeney is towards the top of that list. So, again, your specific actions are .... _____________ _______ _______ ?

Also - how many years would it take you to make $14M / 19M ??????? Does that affect your view of his value? It certainly does for me!!!

Having said all that, we will not get any significant value for him in a trade given his salary (thanks again, Bill). So, he's ours for the year.

Thanks.

So we release Freeney, and then do what with the $14M exactly?

[Gavin]

So we release Freeney, and then do what with the $14M exactly?

save it in case an unexpected player gets released that we need or for a free agent after this year

[Gavin]

really it comes down to not forcing a square peg into a round hole especially a 14 million dollar square peg. not to mention it would be stunting other linebackers growth that we have beyond this season

[JoKeR]

save it in case an unexpected player gets released that we need or for a free agent after this year

Can't roll over extra cap space either, I just becomes unused cap. No one that's worth it is gonna get cut mid season. This is the issue, not that Freeney will make 14million or that he's out of position. It's a lot of money but in a way It's a low risk/ high reward short term investment.

[Gavin]

Can't roll over extra cap space either, I just becomes unused cap. No one that's worth it is gonna get cut mid season. This is the issue, not that Freeney will make 14million or that he's out of position. It's a lot of money but in a way It's a low risk/ high reward short term investment.

for example you mean after this coming season is over and lets say we cut Freeney cause he wasnt working in the system well (just an example) then that 14 million that we didnt pay him at the end of the year couldnt be used added onto next years cap?

[coltnorth]

At the end of this upcoming season Freeney wont be under contract. We can't cut him at the end of the year because he wont have a contract. If things don't work out this year, the team wont resign him and will likely receive a comp pick in the 2013 draft. You would only save money by cutting him proir to this year and use that money to sign other players. As many have indicated, there aren't other free agent gems out there to sign. Why cut him for no reason? If some solid young CB becomes available (unlikely), and the colts want him, they can deal with Freeneys contract then

[JoKeR]

for example you mean after this coming season is over and lets say we cut Freeney cause he wasnt working in the system well (just an example) then that 14 million that we didnt pay him at the end of the year couldnt be used added onto next years cap?

Whether he works out or not he's getting paid 14 million before the year starts. I believe he's a free agent afterwards. But no teams cannot save cap then use it the following year. In fact the teams will have to spend a high percentage of their salary caps soon.

[GoColts8818]

Dwight Freeney will probably be a Colt. If he was going to be cut because of his contract it would have been done when we cut other players because of their contracts so we could have used the money on free agents. If not right then he would have been cut shortly after we couldn't find a good trade we liked. If we were going to trade him we would have done it before or during the draft when we would have gotten something we could use for him. Frankly the best we would probably be able to get for Freeney is a fourth round pick. Frankly Freeney probably has more value to us playing for us even with his huge contract than he does being traded for a fourth round pick.

Notice the Colts have not being trying to give Freeney away. If they had been he would have been delt for a low round pick in the draft. The Colts were probably interested in trading him if the right offer came along. It did not. So now the Colts are sounding like they are going to move forward with him playing for us. The coaches are excited about him. Listen to Pagano talk about him.

Freeney is in the last year of his deal so if he doesn't work in the 3-4 defense the Colts will just let him walk. They aren't going to extend him till they know for sure he's going to work in the 3-4 defense or not. If you look at our free agents next year only Freeney, McAfee, or Powers MIGHT be worth the franchise tag. So if the Colts wish to keep Freeney the could very easily franchise tag him. Since it's the last year of his deal the Colts don't need to worry about trying to get out of Freeney's contract should he not work in our new defense. So frankly unless there becomes a major free agent on the market that the Colts just must have there is little to be gained from cutting Freeney at this point at least in terms of money.

I know that money seems high but you know what at this point there isn't much we are going to be able to do with the with the 14 million this off-season we would save from Freeney being released. So the Colts will probably let things play out this season and if Freeney works out ge him a new deal. if he doesn't they will let him walk as a free agent.

[Gavin]

Dwight Freeney will probably be a Colt. If he was going to be cut because of his contract it would have been done when we cut other players because of their contracts so we could have used the money on free agents. If not right then he would have been cut shortly after we couldn't find a good trade we liked. If we were going to trade him we would have done it before or during the draft when we would have gotten something we could use for him. Frankly the best we would probably be able to get for Freeney is a fourth round pick. Frankly Freeney probably has more value to us playing for us even with his huge contract than he does being traded for a fourth round pick.

Notice the Colts have not being trying to give Freeney away. If they had been he would have been delt for a low round pick in the draft. The Colts were probably interested in trading him if the right offer came along. It did not. So now the Colts are sounding like they are going to move forward with him playing for us. The coaches are excited about him. Listen to Pagano talk about him.

Freeney is in the last year of his deal so if he doesn't work in the 3-4 defense the Colts will just let him walk. They aren't going to extend him till they know for sure he's going to work in the 3-4 defense or not. If you look at our free agents next year only Freeney, McAfee, or Powers MIGHT be worth the franchise tag. So if the Colts wish to keep Freeney the could very easily franchise tag him. Since it's the last year of his deal the Colts don't need to worry about trying to get out of Freeney's contract should he not work in our new defense. So frankly unless there becomes a major free agent on the market that the Colts just must have there is little to be gained from cutting Freeney at this point at least in terms of money.

I know that money seems high but you know what at this point there isn't much we are going to be able to do with the with the 14 million this off-season we would save from Freeney being released. So the Colts will probably let things play out this season and if Freeney works out ge him a new deal. if he doesn't they will let him walk as a free agent.

http://profootballta...-automatically/ from what I have read on numerous sites all you have to do is sign a written notice no later then 14 days prior to the new league year signed by the owner of the team stating how much cap space the team wants to shift one year to the next, now we would still have to spend 89% of the cap but (and if what I read several time is true) then we could do that, here is the free agent list for 2013 http://nfltraderumor...fl-free-agents/

[unitas-we-stand]

We are optimizing his performance...do you see that instead of benching him our letting him go they are putting him in the new system? If that's not optimizing idk what is. We can't do anything but wait it out and see how he does, what is 1 year of trial? We have bigger fish to fry anyhow and as I said before its not like he is a nobody there are plenty of good players that are in their 30s and their fans still support them. Thats all I'm asking...he has done alot for us maybe we can do the same and not just throw him overboard like a nobody

What are your specific suggestions as to how we optimimize his performance as a Colt, or his value as a trade? It's well documented that Bill Polian way overpaid a number of players - and Freeney is towards the top of that list. So, again, your specific actions are .... _____________ _______ _______ ?

Also - how many years would it take you to make $14M / 19M ??????? Does that affect your view of his value? It certainly does for me!!!

Having said all that, we will not get any significant value for him in a trade given his salary (thanks again, Bill). So, he's ours for the year.

Thanks.

[GoColts8818]

http://profootballta...-automatically/ from what I have read on numerous sites all you have to do is sign a written notice no later then 14 days prior to the new league year signed by the owner of the team stating how much cap space the team wants to shift one year to the next, now we would still have to spend 89% of the cap but (and if what I read several time is true) then we could do that, here is the free agent list for 2013 http://nfltraderumor...fl-free-agents/

Rather they can or can't do this is a moot point. The Colts don't seem to want to just give Dwight Freeney away at least not right now. The Colts are not going to be hurting for cap space next season. In fact they should be one of the richest teams in the NFL in terms of cap space going into next season. So they don't need to cut Dwight Freeney to have this space, they are going to have more than enough money to spend on players next season without it. More importantly, the Colts seem to want him on the roster. I think they shopped him around to see if they could find a team that might give them more than his market value on he trading block. They didn't so they will let him play out his contract. If he preforms well in the new defense they will probably franchise tag him an work out a new deal with him. If he struggles then they will just simply let him walk. So could they cut him and carry over the 14 million? Maybe. Are they going to do it? Probably not.

[Gavin]

Rather they can or can't do this is a moot point. The Colts don't seem to want to just give Dwight Freeney away at least not right now. The Colts are not going to be hurting for cap space next season. In fact they should be one of the richest teams in the NFL in terms of cap space going into next season. So they don't need to cut Dwight Freeney to have this space, they are going to have more than enough money to spend on players next season without it. More importantly, the Colts seem to want him on the roster. I think they shopped him around to see if they could find a team that might give them more than his market value on he trading block. They didn't so they will let him play out his contract. If he preforms well in the new defense they will probably franchise tag him an work out a new deal with him. If he struggles then they will just simply let him walk. So could they cut him and carry over the 14 million? Maybe. Are they going to do it? Probably not.

I agree with all of the above with one exception, if he struggles then your potentially paying a guy 14 million dollars whos clearly a fan favorite (and one of mine as well) but what if a guy can play in the system behind him much better when it comes to actual games, some players are better game performers then practice. But I agree with pretty much all of what you said except my point, its never been about liking Freeney or not I like him, hes been a thorn in opposing teams sides for us for years, Im just thinking of the other side of the coin, but some to me seem to letting sentimental value potentially override a potentially smart business decision

[GoColts8818]

I agree with all of the above with one exception, if he struggles then your potentially paying a guy 14 million dollars whos clearly a fan favorite (and one of mine as well) but what if a guy can play in the system behind him much better when it comes to actual games, some players are better game performers then practice. But I agree with pretty much all of what you said except my point, its never been about liking Freeney or not I like him, hes been a thorn in opposing teams sides for us for years, Im just thinking of the other side of the coin, but some to me seem to letting sentimental value potentially override a potentially smart business decision

Yeah it's going to cost them money. That doesn't seem to bother the Colts. They seem to be able to afford it. If it doesn't work you just let him walk away and take the cap space that they are going to have next year even with paying Freeney this year and go after another pass rushing linebacker for a 3-4.

What if Freeney takes to a 3-4 defense like a fish takes to water. What if he has say 12 sacks next year. Then the Colts are going to look like genius's for not giving him away. We don't know what's going to happen. What we do know is that Freeney has proven to be one of the most disruptive forces in the NFL for years and is frankly one of three players on the Colts defense that other teams fear (Mathis and Bethea being the other two). You don't just give that away for cap space if you think he can work in the new defense. Listen to Pagano talk it's pretty clear he thinks Freeney can work in a 3-4.

Also what's getting lost here is that we aren't only going to be a playing a 3-4. We are going to be playing a hybrid which means Freeney can probably play plays at his 4-3 end spot as well and we know how much the other team has to account for him when he's on the field in a 4-3 defense. He's one of the best pure pass rushers in the NFL. Is he worth what he's going to get paid for this season? No. However, he still has value to this team and it's not worth extending him till you know for sure if he can work in a 3-4 defense or not.

I don't think cutting him for cap space when you are going into off-season where you are going to have tones of cap space is a smart business move. We needed the cap space this off-season. This is the year we are up against it with the cap. However, at this point in the off-season there aren't really free agents out there to go get that will be better than Freeney will be. So I think the smart business move was to do one of two things, cut him when they cut the other players for cap space or trade him and use the money this off-season to go after free agents or to do what the Colts look like they are going to do, let him play out his contract if he does well in a 3-4 defense franchise tag him and bring him back and if he doesn't simply let him walk. We are going to have enough cap space next year without cutting Freeney this off-season that we don't really need to explore that option. If all you do is cut your good players for money to spend on other players that's how you become a team like the Browns that is always rebuilding.

[Deano1818]

The time to trade was during the draft

There is an outside chance he is cut, especially if it looks like he is floundering as an linbacker in camp, which is a real

Possibility

It will be interesting to see

[Icelandic_Colt]

really it comes down to not forcing a square peg into a round hole especially a 14 million dollar square peg. not to mention it would be stunting other linebackers growth that we have beyond this season

You still seem to think he'll do a whole lot more than rush the passer?

[willysp]

So we release Freeney, and then do what with the $14M exactly?

Where did I say we should release him?

I said he was overpaid and "we will not get any significant value for him in a trade given his salary (thanks again, Bill). So, he's ours for the year.".

[Jason_]

At the end of this upcoming season Freeney wont be under contract. We can't cut him at the end of the year because he wont have a contract. If things don't work out this year, the team wont resign him and will likely receive a comp pick in the 2013 draft. You would only save money by cutting him proir to this year and use that money to sign other players. As many have indicated, there aren't other free agent gems out there to sign. Why cut him for no reason? If some solid young CB becomes available (unlikely), and the colts want him, they can deal with Freeneys contract then

Just one correction...if we let Freeney walk at the end of this coming year, then the compensatory pick we receive would be in the 2014 draft, not the 2013.

[Coach_Clancy]

Freeney is a Tampa 2 DE...If we can get something for him now why not? If he is hurt or useless in the 3-4 hybrid Defense the Colts just spent 19mil for a one year trial. Nobody knows how Freeney will do in the new D. I like Freeney and I am thankful for all he has done for Indy. He is 32 has 2 or 3 years at most left. He gets hurt rushing from the end. Now we are going to have him standup in space? Only reason Irsay said we arent trading him is because nobody did trade for him. He is trying to save face.

........i totally agree here. you rebuild with youth and speed, and his best days are behind him. i think the only reason he's here is because no one was willing to pick up the tab......

[JoKeR]

http://profootballta...-automatically/ from what I have read on numerous sites all you have to do is sign a written notice no later then 14 days prior to the new league year signed by the owner of the team stating how much cap space the team wants to shift one year to the next, now we would still have to spend 89% of the cap but (and if what I read several time is true) then we could do that, here is the free agent list for 2013 http://nfltraderumor...fl-free-agents/

Isn't it already the new league year?

[Gavin]

Isn't it already the new league year?

yeah I picked up on that to late, Im still hoping Jim sent a letter

[JoKeR]

yeah I picked up on that to late, Im still hoping Jim sent a letter

Lol

[Fx Stryker]

Where did I say we should release him?

I said he was overpaid and "we will not get any significant value for him in a trade given his salary (thanks again, Bill). So, he's ours for the year.".

Oh okay, I gotcha.

[Jay Kirk]

A 4th or 5th round pick isn't enough to get back from him. I would rather keep him than trade him for a 4th or 5th rounder. Pagano and Grigs both seem excited for his ability to play in the 3-4.

You are right on that,to trade for a 4th or 5th round would be ludicrous.IMO to even trade for a 2nd round may not be the right thing to do!

[Gavin]

a guy that can do nothing but rush the passer isnt worth a high draft pick especially when hes being paid 14 million dollars for one year, a team can go out and get one in the draft and thats what teams that needed a pass rusher did, why dont people understand that?

[Rebelknight]

Everyone wanting a Comp pick for Freeney after we let him walk forgets that there is a crazy formula for how high of a pick we would get. If Freeney doesnt put up any kind of numbers we get at most a 6th round pick. That is unless we sign/Draft someone to take his spot. I think we got a 5th for Clint Session...

Also keep in mind that we got a 2nd and 5th for a 26 year old ( I think ) Running Back who was in his prime. No way we would get anything higher than a 4th round pick...

My hope is that Freeney takes to the new position and dominates and signs a resonable 3 year contract at some point.

[bavanlan]

1) I believe you can automatically roll cap space over year-to-year in the new CBA.

2) I don't think it matters anyway because teams (including the Colts) would roll it over year-to-year previously using phony LTBE/NLTBE incentives under the old CBA.