Training camp day 5 8/1

[Nickster]

43 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Please…. 
 

I’m fine if AR starts if he’s ready.   That’s Steichen’s call.   
 

What I’m not fine with is the typical nonsense of….  “the only way to get better is to play”    Thanks for that old school logic of throwing QBs in the deep end and telling them to swim.    Tell that to Patrick Mahomes.   
 

If you can’t see that AR is a unique case and needs a unique plan after all that’s been talked about here, then I don’t know what to tell you.    Solving a 2023 issue with 1983 thinking doesn’t cut it. 

 

old school?  When I was a kid, The only QB I ever remember doing well  as a rookie was Dan Marino and he didn’t play until like game 6.  QBs rarely played at all there rookie year back in the day.

[Superman]

18 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Herbert seems to be stuck doesn’t he?

 

I think we all need to have a big discussion about Herbert. The guy is checking all the boxes IMO, but there seems to be this prevailing opinion that he's coming up short. I don't get it.

 

But even he wasn't expected to start right away. Tyrod Taylor got hurt in Week 1, the lung thing happened, Herbert started Week 2, and that was all she wrote. But the plan was for Herbert to be QB2 for a while. And he was miles ahead of Richardson as a rookie.

[ADnum1]

51 minutes ago, Nickster said:

We shouldn’t be winning much this year.  I would suspect Minshew would give us a better chance to win early, he’s been a decent QB in the league for a while, but that I don’t even consider.

 

My concern is the team around him as far as protection goes. He won’t develop if he’s always on his skates or his adz like our QBs have been the last two seasons.  If Moss cannot play, he’s a plus pass protector.

 

Im not in the least confident in this line in pass pro.  If I had to guess I’d say they won’t be very good hopefully not bottom 1 or 2 like recent lines, but I wouldn’t play AR until week 9 if they are godawful terrible like the last two years.  No reason for him to take the beatings all season that Wentz and Ryan endured.  I wouldn’t think that would help him develop either.

 

 

This is the biggest threat to our season and a very perceptive observation by you.

 

During the draft when Colts drafted Freeland, the announcers on the draft show said the Colts "had the worst pass blocking OL in the league".

 

I thought Freeland would be the first of several moves but I was surprised when Ballard didn't draft a C or RG, or even a backup plan at LG in case Nelson regresses.

 

Essentially the Colts are putting the same Oline out there as last season.

 

Hopefully in the cutdown to 53, a center and RG are brought in.

 

You absolutely have to have a plan B for Kelly and not have AR running for his life and taking a beating like poor Sam and Nick did last season.

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I think we all need to have a big discussion about Herbert. The guy is checking all the boxes IMO, but there seems to be this prevailing opinion that he's coming up short. I don't get it.

 

But even he wasn't expected to start right away. Tyrod Taylor got hurt in Week 1, the lung thing happened, Herbert started Week 2, and that was all she wrote. But the plan was for Herbert to be QB2 for a while. And he was miles ahead of Richardson as a rookie.

I like Herbert a lot.  But that aren’t getting it done over there.  I didn’t realize he didn’t start play 1.

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I think we all need to have a big discussion about Herbert. The guy is checking all the boxes IMO, but there seems to be this prevailing opinion that he's coming up short. I don't get it.

 

But even he wasn't expected to start right away. Tyrod Taylor got hurt in Week 1, the lung thing happened, Herbert started Week 2, and that was all she wrote. But the plan was for Herbert to be QB2 for a while. And he was miles ahead of Richardson as a rookie.

The dude just got paid big time money. Biggest so far. I don't think he's stuck at all. I think he's living the high life. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

old school?  When I was a kid, The only QB I ever remember doing well  as a rookie was Dan Marino and he didn’t play until like game 6.  QBs rarely played at all there rookie year back in the day.

Yeah Andrew Luck sucked as a rookie, did you forget him 

[Nickster]

21 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Nobody disagrees with that. How could anyone disagree with that? But a lot of people think he will not be ready.

*, he’s gonna run a lot.  I might be in favor of sitting him even if he’s “ready” from a load management standpoint.  If he runs half as much as Hurts las year including the post season that’s 100 Carrie’s.  Repeat Half of Hurts Carrie’s is 100 .

 

thats a lot.  Then there is the hits in the passing game.  Is say he’s run as much or more than Hurts.

 

I wouldn’t subject him to that kind of punishment all year.

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

*, he’s gonna run a lot.  I might be in favor of sitting him even if he’s “ready” from a load management standpoint.  If he runs half as much as Hurts las year including the post season that’s 100 Carrie’s.  Repeat Half of Hurts Carrie’s is 100 .

 

thats a lot.  Then there is the hits in the passing game.  Is say he’s run as much or more than Hurts.

 

I wouldn’t subject him to that kind of punishment all year.

I think they censored Bean or maybe I said that plus er which i guess would be caught in the ethnic ban.  Lol.

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah Andrew Luck sucked as a rookie, did you forget him 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

I think they censored Bean or maybe I said that plus er which i guess would be caught in the ethnic ban.  Lol.

I guess with the eye roll, you forgot about Andrew  . Ben Roethlisberger was pretty bad as a rookie as well. Pitt went 15-1 and made the AFC Title Game. Don't let facts get in the way that I post. 

[Superman]

Just now, Nickster said:

I like Herbert a lot.  But that aren’t getting it done over there.  I didn’t realize he didn’t start play 1.

 

Saw a stat recently, Herbert has the more completions through his first three seasons than any other QB, ever. Number 2 is Andrew Luck, and Herbert is ahead by 254 completions.

 

Saw another stat:

 

His first coach was Anthony Lynn, who got fired right away. His coach now is defensive minded Brandon Staley, who has a tenuous grasp on game management. He's on his third OC in four years, and maybe the guy he has now will be able to maximize the incredible weapon they have in Herbert.

 

I think the dude is everything you want in a franchise QB, and right now he's experiencing the Andrew Luck intro to the NFL, with a coaching staff and front office that aren't quite locked in. And because the team hasn't had more success, the shortcomings are being laid at the feet of the QB. 

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I guess with the eye roll, you forgot about Andrew  . Ben Roethlisberger was pretty bad as a rookie as well. Pitt went 15-1 and made the AFC Title Game. Don't let facts get in the way that I post. 

Son Roethlisberger was drafted over  2 decades ago and luck over a decade ago.

 

Plus Ben didn’t play till game 3.

 

Come on dude.  Go hit a round of golf or something. You are doing really poorly here.

 

yep luck and Peyton Manning we’re both seniors when drafted and considered by most pundits to be THE 2 MOST NFL READY QBS IN DRAFT HISTORY.  BOTH GREW UP IN NFL LOCKER ROOMS WITH THEIR FATHERS BEING NFL QBS.

 

 

 

[Nickster]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Saw a stat recently, Herbert has the more completions through his first three seasons than any other QB, ever. Number 2 is Andrew Luck, and Herbert is ahead by 254 completions.

 

Saw another stat:

 

His first coach was Anthony Lynn, who got fired right away. His coach now is defensive minded Brandon Staley, who has a tenuous grasp on game management. He's on his third OC in four years, and maybe the guy he has now will be able to maximize the incredible weapon they have in Herbert.

 

I think the dude is everything you want in a franchise QB, and right now he's experiencing the Andrew Luck intro to the NFL, with a coaching staff and front office that aren't quite locked in. And because the team hasn't had more success, the shortcomings are being laid at the feet of the QB. 

Yep I like him.

 

That said he had a personal worse QBR this season at 58 down 13 points from last season.

[ADnum1]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Saw a stat recently, Herbert has the more completions through his first three seasons than any other QB, ever. Number 2 is Andrew Luck, and Herbert is ahead by 254 completions.

 

Saw another stat:

 

His first coach was Anthony Lynn, who got fired right away. His coach now is defensive minded Brandon Staley, who has a tenuous grasp on game management. He's on his third OC in four years, and maybe the guy he has now will be able to maximize the incredible weapon they have in Herbert.

 

I think the dude is everything you want in a franchise QB, and right now he's experiencing the Andrew Luck intro to the NFL, with a coaching staff and front office that aren't quite locked in. And because the team hasn't had more success, the shortcomings are being laid at the feet of the QB. 

Herbert is experiencing much the same thing that Rivers went through with the Chargers.

 

They can't get their defense, ST's, and offense to be good at the same time.

 

The past couple of seasons Chargers had one of the worst rush defenses in the league.  In fact I think they were ranked 31st last season.

 

But you make a good point about the revolving door at OC that Herbert has had to deal with.

 

The problem with the Chargers is not Herbert.  But like many things Charger related, its a combination of many different short comings.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Son Roethlisberger was drafted over  2 decades ago and luck over a decade ago.

 

Plus Ben didn’t play till game 3.

 

Come on dude.  Go hit a round of golf or something. You are doing really poorly here.

 

yep luck and Peyton Manning we’re both seniors when drafted and considered by most pundits to be THE 2 MOST NFL READY QBS IN DRAFT HISTORY.  BOTH GREW UP IN NFL LOCKER ROOMS WITH THEIR FATHERS BEING NFL QBS.

 

 

 

Ben didn't start until game 3 and that is what you bring to the table  . the dude went 13-0 as a rookie and went to the AFC Championship, see you on the back 9.

[BeanDiasucci]

The Colts started Y.A. Tittle as a rookie and that turned out pretty well. 

[Nickster]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Ben didn't start until untill game 3 and that is what you bring to the table  . the dude went 13-0 as a rookie and went to the AFC Championship, see you on the back 9.

weren’t we talking about starting day one dude?

 

 

[RollerColt]

Trying to think here… Elway didn’t start his rookie either did he? And his 2nd season didn’t he get benched multiple times?

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, BeanDiasucci said:

The Colts started Y.A. Tittle as a rookie and that turned out pretty well. 

They have a history.  Y.A. In 48, Manning in 98 and luck in aught 12.

 

pretty much settled it.  Richardson should start.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

They have a history.  Y.A. In 48, Manning in 98 and luck in aught 12.

 

pretty much settled it.  Richardson should start.

Nah, we should start Richardson in year 3, let backups play so he can learn with a clipboard in his hand 👍

[NewColtsFan]

46 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't know, there are some in here that have posted they are opposed to starting a rookie QB no matter what. I just go by what I read. I am pretty sure a guy like Mahomes would have been just fine starting as a rookie. I give a great response to why he didn't start and it doesn't matter. They had freakin Alex Smith is why. It is obvious.

Forget he didn’t start.    The guy didn’t PLAY.    Mahomes played one game his rookie year.   He played one game.  One.  
 

Yet you don’t think it made a difference. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

Forget he didn’t start.    The guy didn’t PLAY.    Mahomes played one game his rookie year.   He played one game.  One.  
 

Yet you don’t think it made a difference. 

Only reason he didn't play is because they had Alex Smith and were a playoff ready team. Had Mahomes played, do you think KC would have been bad? I don't, that is where we disagree I guess. I am not putting words in your mouth saying you think Mahomes would not have been ready as a rookie but it seems like that is what you are thinking. If I am wrong, I apologize. KC had pretty good surroundings in Mahomes rookie year, I am pretty sure they would have made the playoffs with him playing. That is JMO.

[Stephen]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Forget he didn’t start.    The guy didn’t PLAY.    Mahomes played one game his rookie year.   He played one game.  One.  
 

Yet you don’t think it made a difference. 

I think mahomes would  have faired well if he had played his rookie year

[TimetobringDfence!]

39 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

This is the biggest threat to our season and a very perceptive observation by you.

 

During the draft when Colts drafted Freeland, the announcers on the draft show said the Colts "had the worst pass blocking OL in the league".

 

I thought Freeland would be the first of several moves but I was surprised when Ballard didn't draft a C or RG, or even a backup plan at LG in case Nelson regresses.

 

Essentially the Colts are putting the same Oline out there as last season.

 

Hopefully in the cutdown to 53, a center and RG are brought in.

 

You absolutely have to have a plan B for Kelly and not have AR running for his life and taking a beating like poor Sam and Nick did last season.

The state of the Oline is the biggest factor to how this offense will perform and a big factor in developing AR5. 

[Stephen]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Forget he didn’t start.    The guy didn’t PLAY.    Mahomes played one game his rookie year.   He played one game.  One.  
 

Yet you don’t think it made a difference. 

Not to mention smith played the best he has ever played to try to keep mahomes on the bench

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I think mahomes would  have faired well if he had played his rookie year

Thanks, I do too. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Stephen said:

Not to mention smith played the best he has ever played to try to keep mahomes on the bench

You are making my points, you the man! 20-0 here we come  

[stitches]

24 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Saw a stat recently, Herbert has the more completions through his first three seasons than any other QB, ever. Number 2 is Andrew Luck, and Herbert is ahead by 254 completions.

 

Saw another stat:

 

His first coach was Anthony Lynn, who got fired right away. His coach now is defensive minded Brandon Staley, who has a tenuous grasp on game management. He's on his third OC in four years, and maybe the guy he has now will be able to maximize the incredible weapon they have in Herbert.

 

I think the dude is everything you want in a franchise QB, and right now he's experiencing the Andrew Luck intro to the NFL, with a coaching staff and front office that aren't quite locked in. And because the team hasn't had more success, the shortcomings are being laid at the feet of the QB. 

Herbert is amazing. I don't know why people knock him. I would love if AR ever reaches the level of his processing and grasp of an NFL offense. A ton of that team's failures have nothing to do with him. QB wins is NOT a real stat. This goes both ways. Yes, QBs have outsized impact on winning, but they are still what? 15-20% of a team's success? 

[TimetobringDfence!]

Just now, TimetobringDfence! said:

The state of the Oline is the biggest factor to how this offense will perform and a big factor in developing AR5. 

When coach sees the oline picking up the blocking schemes and playing satisfactory, that will be when he let's AR take more of the reigns over splitting time with the Stache. Just how I see it. Gardner starts. And splits certain sets with AR5 until the line proves they're up to par...

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, BeanDiasucci said:

In trying to convince people you're not a Homer, this might not be the way to do it. 

Homer is great, in reality I really don't think I am the ultimate homer that many believe I am. I am just a positive person in general but trust me if we play bad or there is something I don't like with the organization I rip the Colts. I have ripped them all week for this JT situation. I am on record admitting I was wrong about Matt Ryan being a great fit here. I think he was bad last year. 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Homer is great, in reality I really don't think I am the ultimate homer that many believe I am. I am just a positive person in general but trust me if we play bad or there is something I don't like with the organization I rip the Colts. I have ripped them all week for this JT situation. I am on record admitting I was wrong about Matt Ryan being a great fit here. I think he was bad last year. 

Anthony Richardson vs the rest of the NFL....

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

@2006Coltsbestever

 

Allow me to ask you some questions.   You read the posts here….

 

1.   Do you not remember me writing over and over that the most important goal for the 2023 Colts is preparing AR to be the full time starter in 2024?   And that it’s more important than winning this year?   I got pushback. 

 

2.  When posters here started a let’s roll with Minshew this year thread because they think he can win 9 games and the colts could make the playoffs and how great that would be….  I offered that nothing was more important than developing Richardson.   I got push back. 
 

3.  My big post about the approach that I think Steichen will take is just a guess.  Could I be wrong?   Absolutely.   I even gave full credit to the poster who came up with the original idea.   But with less than 1,000 snaps and 13 starts, AR is a unique kid, so I believe he needs a unique approach to how he’s developed.  The kid has to play.   But I believe he might get 10- 20 snaps week one, and slowly increase each week until he shows he’s ready to start.   Does that seem unreasonable? 
 

Maybe AR is ahead of schedule.   Maybe he’ll look great in the pre-season.   Maybe AR gets the week one start.  I’m just not expecting that to happen, but it certainly could.   Either way,  I’ll be rooting for him to succeed. 

 

I hope you have a better idea of my position….

 

[Colt.45]

Justin Herbert is excellent. He's not Pat Mahomes but who is? He's certainly in that next tier with Allen, Burrow, Jalen, Lawrence, maybe ARod.

 

Good to see Richardson struggle. The fire in him will allow him learn a lot from these bad days, and there'll probably be quite a few lessons like this ahead this season. How he ends the season, and how he goes into the next offseason is the real key.

 

For this TC, I'm just loving seeing his personality come to fore. Leadership, community building, learning the mental side of being a pro - both in game and out of it, how he manipulates the media. Those things are what he should work on this year, the other side will come....too many of his teammates have said it, too many people who know the NFL game on the inside level are saying it, and by IT, i mean they're talking of him the way you heard folks talk of Luck and how they talk of Mahomes i.e. in almost superhero terms....the kid just needs to keep working and stay healthy. 

 

The OFF days are gems for him this year. Even Bryce has had some off moments. CJ Stroud has certainly had his share. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Goatface Killah]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

This I disagree with absolutely.

 

if playing we’re the only way to get better there’d be no such thing as practice.

 

Are you AI?

 

 

But during the season, the backup QB doesnt get that many reps in practice.

 

If he starts, he gets more practice reps + live game reps.

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

@2006Coltsbestever

 

Allow me to ask you some questions.   You read the posts here….

 

1.   Do you not remember me writing over and over that the most important goal for the 2023 Colts is preparing AR to be the full time starter in 2024?   And that it’s more important than winning this year?   I got pushback. 

 

2.  When posters here started a let’s roll with Minshew this year thread because they think he can win 9 games and the colts could make the playoffs and how great that would be….  I offered that nothing was more important than developing Richardson.   I got push back. 
 

3.  My big post about the approach that I think Steichen will take is just a guess.  Could I be wrong?   Absolutely.   I even gave full credit to the poster who came up with the original idea.   But with less than 1,000 snaps and 13 starts, AR is a unique kid, so I believe he needs a unique approach to how he’s developed.  The kid has to play.   But I believe he might get 10- 20 snaps week one, and slowly increase each week until he shows he’s ready to start.   Does that seem unreasonable? 
 

Maybe AR is ahead of schedule.   Maybe he’ll look great in the pre-season.   Maybe AR gets the week one start.  I’m just not expecting that to happen, but it certainly could.   Either way,  I’ll be rooting for him to succeed. 

 

I hope you have a better idea of my position….

 

Yeah I do remember you posting those things. I think what annoyed me earlier and has annoyed me, when I say AR should start and I get a confused from you or others. 

 

Should AR start if he doesn't look good in pre-season or if Shane says - nope he's not ready then of course I don't think he should start.

 

You and I have always been pretty cool, I only push back at you when you post things toward me that I think are just not valuing my opinion at all. I try not to do that with you because you bring great knowledge to the site, if I do that with you, just let me know. I have no problem with that. 

 

There are a few in here that I disagree with a lot on things and I admit I do my silly Homer GIF and laugh but I try to see all sides to everything. Nick does the ol' eye roll with the Rock  

[Goatface Killah]

10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

@2006Coltsbestever

 

Allow me to ask you some questions.   You read the posts here….

 

1.   Do you not remember me writing over and over that the most important goal for the 2023 Colts is preparing AR to be the full time starter in 2024?   And that it’s more important than winning this year?   I got pushback. 

 

2.  When posters here started a let’s roll with Minshew this year thread because they think he can win 9 games and the colts could make the playoffs and how great that would be….  I offered that nothing was more important than developing Richardson.   I got push back. 
 

3.  My big post about the approach that I think Steichen will take is just a guess.  Could I be wrong?   Absolutely.   I even gave full credit to the poster who came up with the original idea.   But with less than 1,000 snaps and 13 starts, AR is a unique kid, so I believe he needs a unique approach to how he’s developed.  The kid has to play.   But I believe he might get 10- 20 snaps week one, and slowly increase each week until he shows he’s ready to start.   Does that seem unreasonable? 
 

Maybe AR is ahead of schedule.   Maybe he’ll look great in the pre-season.   Maybe AR gets the week one start.  I’m just not expecting that to happen, but it certainly could.   Either way,  I’ll be rooting for him to succeed. 

 

I hope you have a better idea of my position….

 

I think anyone who thinks 9 wins gets you into the playoffs this year, in this AFC, is insane. 

 

And I dont know why anyone would think Minshew can get you to 9 anyways. He only has 8 wins in his entire career. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Goatface Killah said:

I think anyone who thinks 9 wins gets you into the playoffs this year, in this AFC, is insane. 

 

And I dont know why anyone would think Minshew can get you to 9 anyways. He only has 8 wins in his entire career. 

Another reason why I think AR should start. Let me emphasize, he should start if Shane says so and AR looks great in pre-season. In game regular season reps for a whole year will get him better, more seasoned going into 2024. Even if we win just 4 or 5 games, that experience is huge. 

 

Some could be looking at what happened to Zach Wilson, not sure but AR's personality and work ethic seems way different to me.

[BeanDiasucci]

19 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

My intention is never to be right. Its just to be hopeful looking forward to the next game. The day I act like you, is the day I get a new hobby. 

 

The definition of a prediction is what you think will happen, not what you hope will happen. Should we all just say they'll win every game 70-0? If we're not trying to be right, we might as well go big on it.

[Goatface Killah]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have always wondered why people would bring someone down being a positive person about a team you have loved and watched for 40 years or just being positive in general. Obviously if we stink or things like the JT situation come up then I can see ripping into the team. I remember when I was a kid, my moms 2nd husband made things miserable to be around. The dude was not only mean but was negative about everything. I was only 10 years old at the time and he threatened me a few times, scared the hell out of me. He is lucky I wasn't 30 when I was in the best shape of my life, otherwise he would have got this. 

I wouldnt trade all the fun I have had following the Colts, even over the last 5 years, for being right on an internet message board, I know that. 

 

We will be in the mix again soon enough. Until then, I will enjoy the ride.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, BeanDiasucci said:

The definition of a prediction is what you think will happen, not what you hope will happen. Should we all just say they'll win every game 70-0? If we're not trying to be right, we might as well go big on it.

That is one thing I have never done since posting in here. I am at least reasonable about my predictions. I have never once predicted that we would win the SB before the season since I have been here and I have 60,000 posts  . I have been here since 2015. I have posted things like we will win the division or win 10 or 11 games over the years but so has most everyone else. Go back and look at the polls on here going into last year, most had us winning the division and 10 or 11 games. It was reasonable to think that with Matt Ryan and JT having the year he had in 2021 that we would be good. In 2019 after Luck retired, I had us winning 8 games and we went 7-9. So I was picking with my brain not my fandom. When I predict, I pick what I think will probably happen. I think this year we can win maybe 7 or 8 games but it would not shock me if we won 4 or 5. How am I a total homer predicting stuff like that? 

 

In the Peyton days, of course I had us winning the SB before the season started from 2005-2009 but who didn't?