Going up tempo

[twfish]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

The numbers are wrong. Other posters will tell you that eventually. And they will probably show you the film.  And next you will tell us he didnt fumble that ball against Tenn too.

There's been a lot of very poorly thrown balls towards Taylor and that's why they aren't considered drops.

[Mitch Connors]

Credit to Frank for realizing what he was doing wasn't working and having the courage to switch it up. That's not easy to do. 

Its not often you get a direct comparison of games so close together as we just did with the 2 Jags games.

 

Yesterday we: Scored 34 more points, converted 20 more first downs, and had 216 more total yards than the 1st game. 

 

That's a monumental shift in offensive production that got everyone involved and should be a spark for the rest of the season. 

[bluephantom87]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

A few thoughts as to why we did not attempt an up tempo 58 pass game plan the first 5 games:

 

Our best player on offense is JT.  He's more of a straight ahead runner (if you want to ask why we never throw more to JT, I understand...but...we will still never throw as much to him like we did DJax because we will never have a 58 pass attempt game plan). 

 

For some reason, Hines is thought of as the pass catching RB and we put him in when we want to throw to the RBs.  I don't get that and never did.

 

Romo even said that it takes about 6 weeks to get comfortable.  A lot of those throws were contested catches that if not thrown perfectly would have been intercepted or tipped up.  

 

The Ballard $6million Pryor OT experiement has hopefully seen its last game.  

 

BTW, most teams get a lot of garbage yards at the end of games.  That doesn't mean that game plan would have worked the first 3.5 quarters.

 

Wentz seems like the type of QB who does what he wants...plays how he wants to...and he doesn't want to dink and dunk.  I guess it was a mistake to think that he could run the offense like Rivers did the year before...only with more mobility and A LOT better arm talent.  I suppose Frank being wrong about this is why he said he apologized to Irsay.

 

Siranni was criticized as a bad play caller last season.  Philly got into the playoffs by taking the ball out of Hurts hands and making the offense a running offense.  Another year in the system, another year of Davonta Smith, and adding AJ Brown now helps Hurts to look like a normal NFL passer.

 

I don't think the light bulb went off about Sam just because of what they see with Hurts.  I think they drafted Sam because they like him for what the offense wants to be...and why they did not cut him....which is not the offense it was last season when Frank took the ball out of Wentz hands and gave it to JT.

 

As far as Foles, I suppose what they said about Sam was true...he was not ready to be the backup, so Foles is a decent option...he's not really a long baller himself.  Sam is probably at least one season behind Hurts considering how their skills stacked up....noting where they were each drafted  (not saying that he will be as good, just saying it takes him more time to get to where he is)

 

 

I like some of your points but at the end of the day you defend Frank to the point of making EXCUSES for him so much so that you're missing my point. The original post was me giving Frank PRAISE for FINALLY changing things up which worked out well for the Colts against THESE Jags! I even said in so many words it worked for THAT game yesterday ESPECIALLY with the lopsided passing attempts which is NOT sustainable but it caught the Jags off guard because they weren't expecting up tempo either. I'm not advocating for the Colts to STAY up tempo all the time but it was a nice change of pace that injected some life into a stagnant offense and allowed Matt to get into a rhythm while keeping the defense on their heels.

 

On to JT... Let me REMIND you that he PLAYED those last two games in which they lost to the Jags by a combined score of 

50 - 11 so changes were NECESSARY whether he played or not! Frank is SOOO dependent on JT that our offense has become stagnant with the FORCED runs up the gut HOPING he can break one!!! Now that teams are game planning to STOP the rushing attack by FOCUSING on JT (combined with the poor line play) those runs are now few and far between.

It's a lot more no gain, losses or 2 yd runs. 

 

So are you saying Frank had NO idea what type of qb Wentz was? That he was a solo act (by your accounts) who does what he wants to? Or that he had no idea of Foles whole career limited arm either after coaching both men prior to the Colts? Stop.

 

Like I said hopefully this game is the turning point for the offense. Less predictability and more innovation in the passing game. You never know maybe Pittman, Pierce, Campbell and Woods will FORCE teams to start accounting for them as threats. If that happens the Colts will be hard to deal with and if Frank can't continue to MAXIMIZE that group with better playcalling or by adjusting his scheme to MATCH their skill sets then I'm afraid his tenure will not last past the season.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

I like some of your points but at the end of the day you defend Frank to the point of making EXCUSES for him so much so that you're missing my point. The original post was me giving Frank PRAISE for FINALLY changing things up which worked out well for the Colts against THESE Jags! I even said in so many words it worked for THAT game yesterday ESPECIALLY with the lopsided passing attempts which is NOT sustainable but it caught the Jags off guard because they weren't expecting up tempo either. I'm not advocating for the Colts to STAY up tempo all the time but it was a nice change of pace that injected some life into a stagnant offense and allowed Matt to get into a rhythm while keeping the defense on their heels.

 

On to JT... Let me REMIND you that he PLAYED those last two games in which they lost to the Jags by a combined score of 

50 - 11 so changes were NECESSARY whether he played or not! Frank is SOOO dependent on JT that our offense has become stagnant with the FORCED runs up the gut HOPING he can break one!!! Now that teams are game planning to STOP the rushing attack by FOCUSING on JT (combined with the poor line play) those runs are now few and far between.

It's a lot more no gain, losses or 2 yd runs. 

 

So are you saying Frank had NO idea what type of qb Wentz was? That he was a solo act (by your accounts) who does what he wants to? Or that he had no idea of Foles whole career limited arm either after coaching both men prior to the Colts? Stop.

 

Like I said hopefully this game is the turning point for the offense. Less predictability and more innovation in the passing game. You never know maybe Pittman, Pierce, Campbell and Woods will FORCE teams to start accounting for them as threats. If that happens the Colts will be hard to deal with and if Frank can't continue to MAXIMIZE that group with better playcalling or by adjusting his scheme to MATCH their skill sets then I'm afraid his tenure will not last past the season.

I think when people evaluate Frank, they forget that he has been in the same role as HC/play caller for 5 years.   We have seen the offense take different forms based upon the personnel.    Luck, AC, TY, Ebron, Doyle, Mack....JB, AC. TY (Ebron quit), Doyle Mack......Rivers, AC TY (injured/old), Doyle, Mo (young), JT (rookie), Hines.....Wentz, Fisher, Pitt, JT, Doyle (old), Mo.....Ryan, Pryor, Pitt, JT, and a cast of rookies. 

 

So the fact that it becomes a run based offense last year and then back to a short passing game like we had under Rivers is not really Frank "seeing the light".  Its a function of what the talents of the personnel are and how experienced they are playing together doing different things. 

 

Pointing that out is not what I call making excuses.  It gets people to look beyond what they see when we hand the ball to JT for the last 18 games (didn't really do that the first 4 games last year) and fail to notice how the offense looked the 60 games before that.

[krunk]

7 hours ago, twfish said:

There's been a lot of very poorly thrown balls towards Taylor and that's why they aren't considered drops.

Very 1st play of the KC game was a pass to Taylor and he dropped it. Even Romo said it went right through his hands. Then he said thats not like him. I remember another pass or two from the Tenn game where he settle right in the middle of the field. Ryan threw it to him and he dropped it. 

[w87r]

19 minutes ago, krunk said:

Even Romo said it went right through his hands

That's not what he said.

 

He said "There's Taylor, that's a little abnormal, but the pass was thrown out in front of him with the blitz off the side."

 

 

Take up your beef with NFL scoring.

 

Clearly your two definitions differ.

[krunk]

25 minutes ago, w87r said:

That's not what he said.

 

He said "There's Taylor, that's a little abnormal, but the pass was thrown out in front of him with the blitz off the side."

 

 

Take up your beef with NFL scoring.

 

Clearly your two definitions differ.

The part that youre leaving out is the other commentator said the ball was just off his hands. Abnormal i took as him meaning its abnormal for him to drop a pass like that, but the ball was a bit in front of him. He said that to give him a little slack. He never said it wasnt a catchable pass. Their was enough there for him to catch it but he didnt.  They might have scored differently but that doesnt mean the ball didnt hit him in the hands and he didnt pull it in. 

[w87r]

Just now, krunk said:

The part that youre leaving out is the other commentator said the ball was just off his hands.

I am not leaving out anything. You said "Romo said this", I gave you verbatim what Romo said. It wasn't what you said.

 

The other commentator didn't say that either.

 

He said " sidearm sling to Taylor, and he is unable to hold onto it"

 

 

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

They might have scored differently but that doesnt mean the ball didnt hit him in the hands and he didnt pull it in.

That doesn't mean it is considered a drop either. In fact, it isn't considered a drop.

 

4 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

 

[w87r]

So a side arm sling(coming at different angle), around blitzing player(restricts vision), and a throw out in front of him.

 

 

Has he pulled in passes like that before? Sure. Is it considered a drop since he didn't catch this one? No.

[compuls1v3]

13 hours ago, DougDew said:

Yep.  No doubt.  I would also say that the Pryor at OT experiment set things back.  And continuing to center the offense around JT still makes sense until it shows to not work.  

 

Those routes that Ryan threw were pretty contested from what I saw.  A lot of perfect passes.  Getting the timing down takes time, so maybe running last year's offense until the timing works out was the better approach.

 

I think we will see some up tempo/no huddle in a few series going forward.  I don't expect a lot of changes to the game plans.  I do expect Ryan to find AP and Woods more both on short plays and down the field...if the oline holds up. And I hope (but don't expect) Jackson to be elevated/used more than Hines.

Definitely agree about the Pryor experiment.  Which is a failure in Ballard more than anything else.  Castanzo’s replacement hasn’t gone smoothly, and I don’t think our rookie LT has the strength yet to play full time.

[philba101]

I was at the game on Sunday and I think our offense was doing a lot more than just going up-tempo. As some have debated on this thread, it is not really realistic to play up-tempo for an entire game. I will give Reich credit for making the necessary adjustments. We saw more quick-hitting plays, slants, and swing routes to the RB than we saw in the first five weeks. The key to me was the Colts spreading the field so that defenses can no longer stack the box and then tee-off on Ryan if he keeps the ball. The spread offense and quick-hitting plays keeps the defense on their heels and as a result helped our struggling line and QB who had been under constant siege all year. This is essentially what we did in the 4th quarter and overtime in the Broncos game. My question is, did Reich only make these adjustments because Taylor and Hines were both out of the game? My fear is that he will revert right back to the less dynamic and predictable offense that was scoring 13 points a game when they return. What would this offense look like if we kept it spread out, and utilized JT and Hines the way Jackson was used on Sunday?

[sb41champs]

It wasn't about Reich being "stubborn". 

 

It's about continuing to work thru combinations - until you find the BEST one!! 

 

PERIOD!!

[bluephantom87]

4 hours ago, sb41champs said:

It wasn't about Reich being "stubborn". 

 

It's about continuing to work thru combinations - until you find the BEST one!! 

 

PERIOD!!

 

Are you talking about the o-line, scheme or playcalling?

[compuls1v3]

On 10/17/2022 at 12:06 PM, DougDew said:

I think when people evaluate Frank, they forget that he has been in the same role as HC/play caller for 5 years.   We have seen the offense take different forms based upon the personnel.    Luck, AC, TY, Ebron, Doyle, Mack....JB, AC. TY (Ebron quit), Doyle Mack......Rivers, AC TY (injured/old), Doyle, Mo (young), JT (rookie), Hines.....Wentz, Fisher, Pitt, JT, Doyle (old), Mo.....Ryan, Pryor, Pitt, JT, and a cast of rookies. 

 

So the fact that it becomes a run based offense last year and then back to a short passing game like we had under Rivers is not really Frank "seeing the light".  Its a function of what the talents of the personnel are and how experienced they are playing together doing different things. 

 

Pointing that out is not what I call making excuses.  It gets people to look beyond what they see when we hand the ball to JT for the last 18 games (didn't really do that the first 4 games last year) and fail to notice how the offense looked the 60 games before that.

I think the biggest problem I’ve had from Frank is his predictability overall.  It just seems that when I, a casual fan, can predict the next play call from my couch, it gets frustrating.  This last game was different.  Props to him for that.  But it was just one game.  I need to see more of it.  Also, the head coach should have a say over the DC right?  Why is Fayson starting over Rodgers?  The best player should be playing.  At least that’s my opinion.

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

I think the biggest problem I’ve had from Frank is his predictability overall.  It just seems that when I, a casual fan, can predict the next play call from my couch, it gets frustrating.  This last game was different.  Props to him for that.  But it was just one game.  I need to see more of it.  Also, the head coach should have a say over the DC right?  Why is Fayson starting over Rodgers?  The best player should be playing.  At least that’s my opinion.

With RPO formations,  three WR sets...or 3 TE sets, or situational personnel packages, I think the NFL as a whole has gotten more predictable.

 

When the roster is populated with fewer specialists and more versatile players that each can play 85% of the snaps, the predictability goes down.

 

I'll bet the opponents LT will predict that Yannick will try to rush the passer and not defend the run.

[sb41champs]

16 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

Are you talking about the o-line, scheme or playcalling?

O-line - thanks for asking!!