Any word on dwight freeney?

[Coffeedrinker]

Coaches dont have to ask you to do it if the ball is ran right at ya your supposed to make that tackle, assignments can change in a blink of a eye or a signal, defensive linemen should be able to adjust

That is incorrect and it's something most fans do not understand. Assignments do not change, that is why they are called assignments and not recommendations. If a RB runs into Freeney's gap then yes Freeney is supposed to make the tackle and he usually does. If the RB runs into a LBers gap that is right next to Freeney's gap, then no Freeney is not supposed to leave his responsibility, that is called freelancing and that is not something coaches like. Defenses are designed so every player is in a place, if you have a single player do something different it messes up the entire D. That problem is even bigger in a Cover 2/gap responsibility type D. Now you can claim that is a flaw in the D and I would agree but that does not mean a player is bad at something.

[Larry Horseman]

I dont know that for sure I havent worked it out but I think a few others would disagree on that who have worked things out financially here

He's correct. If DFree is on the roster, his cap hit will be $19 mill+. If he is cut or traded, his cap hit will be about $5 mill.

[dgambill]

That is incorrect and it's something most fans do not understand. Assignments do not change, that is why they are called assignments and not recommendations. If a RB runs into Freeney's gap then yes Freeney is supposed to make the tackle and he usually does. If the RB runs into a LBers gap that is right next to Freeney's gap, then no Freeney is not supposed to leave his responsibility, that is called freelancing and that is not something coaches like. Defenses are designed so every player is in a place, if you have a single player do something different it messes up the entire D. That problem is even bigger in a Cover 2/gap responsibility type D. Now you can claim that is a flaw in the D and I would agree but that does not mean a player is bad at something.

I think you are exactly correct. That said if the player has played as long as Freeney and never had any responsibility to play the run and now you ask him to doesn't mean he will be able to. I am coming to the conclusion if we can't get value out of Freeney in say a 3rd round draft pick we keep him..and get our compensatory pick in a couple years. He may just be a specialist and used on pass downs but that is what he is. An expensive specialist. I don't think trying to get him to do something different is a good idea. While his contract is outrageous we are stuck with it. Use him and move on. Find our future OLB/DE in the draft or a stud in FA once that contract is off the book. I don't think he is the answer down the road for our teams new defense (meaning I don't want to extend him at a high price) but I'm settled on just paying it and being done with it. I do think he is on the decline but I recognize that he can still give us value this year as opposed to cutting him. I would love trading him...saving the money AND getting a draft pick but I just don't think it will happen.

[Coffeedrinker]

I think you are exactly correct. That said if the player has played as long as Freeney and never had any responsibility to play the run and now you ask him to doesn't mean he will be able to. I am coming to the conclusion if we can't get value out of Freeney in say a 3rd round draft pick we keep him..and get our compensatory pick in a couple years. He may just be a specialist and used on pass downs but that is what he is. An expensive specialist. I don't think trying to get him to do something different is a good idea. While his contract is outrageous we are stuck with it. Use him and move on. Find our future OLB/DE in the draft or a stud in FA once that contract is off the book. I don't think he is the answer down the road for our teams new defense (meaning I don't want to extend him at a high price) but I'm settled on just paying it and being done with it. I do think he is on the decline but I recognize that he can still give us value this year as opposed to cutting him. I would love trading him...saving the money AND getting a draft pick but I just don't think it will happen.

Okay, so back to my original question, what are you using to base your theory that he can't play the run? From the rest of your post it appears that you think he can't because a) he wasn't asked to before and somehow the concept of tackling the ball carrier is beyond his grasp. b) he is 32 years old and that is apparently too old to learn something new c) because the previous coaching staff used him as a specialist that is all he can be.

That is what it appears you are saying from your previous post. And that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Freeney, like Mathis, has proven to be a football player, he goes 100% the entire time he's on the field, he shows excellent football intelligence and judging by last year he is still one of the most explosive defensive players off the snap in the NFL.

[MAC]

Have you guys not been watching dwight freeney over the past few years. He was one bad year, in a year everyone had a bad year and you act like he's a terrible player.

Freeney was the heart and soul of our defense, his absence the main reason we lost the Last super bowl we were in and and the most non stop motor of anyone in the entire league. If you going by stats, Lets drop brown...and Mathis and Wanyne, they all had down years.

And I don't think that he had a bad year last year at all. He had fewer sacks because he had fewer opportunities. It goes back to that whole "built to play with the lead" business. There were FAR too few third and longs last year. THAT was the problem with Freeney./Mathis, not what Freeney/Mathis did with those rare opportunities. When teams no longer bother to set up their offenses to account for Freeney THEN we likely have a problem.

[Creekside]

So glad I'm not the only one who doesn't think Freeney is a washed up specialist. The problem last year in pass defense was the lack of talent in the secondary. QB's got rid of passes quickly to open receivers. And in regards to run defense....if Freeney sucks at it why didn't offenses run at him all the time?....if you pick any random game last year you'll see offenses ran right as much as they ran left. Many DE's of Freeney's calber played at a high level well into their upper 30's. ......like Doleman, Smith, White, and others......

[Gavin]

He's correct. If DFree is on the roster, his cap hit will be $19 mill+. If he is cut or traded, his cap hit will be about $5 mill.

thats what I was alluding to

[bahhummbug]

Okay, so back to my original question, what are you using to base your theory that he can't play the run? From the rest of your post it appears that you think he can't because a) he wasn't asked to before and somehow the concept of tackling the ball carrier is beyond his grasp. b) he is 32 years old and that is apparently too old to learn something new c) because the previous coaching staff used him as a specialist that is all he can be.

That is what it appears you are saying from your previous post. And that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Freeney, like Mathis, has proven to be a football player, he goes 100% the entire time he's on the field, he shows excellent football intelligence and judging by last year he is still one of the most explosive defensive players off the snap in the NFL.

Watch Freeneys film before you think he can play a 1 or 2 gap def.He is constantly running himself out of the play either spinning to the outside or bull rushing right past the running back.It takes patience and skill to defend your gaps how many times have you seen Freeney run himself outside too far to def run?

[Gavin]

Okay, so back to my original question, what are you using to base your theory that he can't play the run? From the rest of your post it appears that you think he can't because a) he wasn't asked to before and somehow the concept of tackling the ball carrier is beyond his grasp. b) he is 32 years old and that is apparently too old to learn something new c) because the previous coaching staff used him as a specialist that is all he can be.

That is what it appears you are saying from your previous post. And that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Freeney, like Mathis, has proven to be a football player, he goes 100% the entire time he's on the field, he shows excellent football intelligence and judging by last year he is still one of the most explosive defensive players off the snap in the NFL.

My whole stance on the issue is A)Hes do 19 million $ B) He will be an experiment at linebacker

I find it hard to pay 19 million $ for a guy to experiment and the fact that he is 32 does factor into it because, him learning linebacker will mostly take time well at 32 time is not on his side, now he may come out and be our second best linebacker (behind Angerer) but again your betting 19 million $ on that

[Gavin]

Watch Freeneys film before you think he can play a 1 or 2 gap def.He is constantly running himself out of the play either spinning to the outside or bull rushing right past the running back.It takes patience and skill to defend your gaps how many times have you seen Freeney run himself outside too far to def run?

I agree thats another reason why our run defense sucked, we only had the two undersized defensive tackles to stop the run cause they would spin themselves out of the play and our Linebackers would drop back into coverage

[Coffeedrinker]

Watch Freeneys film before you think he can play a 1 or 2 gap def.

I've watched Freeney for a lot of years. Unfortunately the only "film" I have is from my recordings and NFL game rewind. If you have some actual "film" of him, let me know and perhaps we can work out some sort of payment for you to ship it to me. I love breaking down film, I do a pretty good job with the TV broadcast but I could do a better job with actual film.

He is constantly running himself out of the play

Umm, no he's not.

either spinning to the outside or bull rushing right past the running back.

It's because his job under Dungy and Caldwell was to get to the QB and not worry about anything else. So I'm not going to knock him for doing his job the way he was taught.

It takes patience and skill to defend your gaps

Well, that's your first mistake there is no gaps there was a gap.

how many times have you seen Freeney run himself outside too far to def run?

None, because defending the run was not his responsibility. His responsibility was to get to the QB.

My whole stance on the issue is A)Hes do 19 million $ B) He will be an experiment at linebacker

Actually he's due $14 million (his cap hit is $19 there is a difference) and what makes you think he's going to be an experiment? From everything that Pagano has said, his role is not going to change a lot. What will change is the freedom he has to pick the spot where he does it from.

I find it hard to pay 19 million $ for a guy to experiment and the fact that he is 32 does factor into it because, him learning linebacker will mostly take time well at 32 time is not on his side, now he may come out and be our second best linebacker (behind Angerer) but again your betting 19 million $ on that

Freeney has spent most of his football career doing things that they said he should not be able to do. The reason he fell to the Colts at 11 is because many thought he was too small to play DE in the NFL. The reason he went to Syracuse is because many bigger schools thought he was too small to play defensive end in college. The guys a football player. And yup he's due $19 million, he's earned it already.

[bahhummbug]

I've watched Freeney for a lot of years. Unfortunately the only "film" I have is from my recordings and NFL game rewind. If you have some actual "film" of him, let me know and perhaps we can work out some sort of payment for you to ship it to me. I love breaking down film, I do a pretty good job with the TV broadcast but I could do a better job with actual film.

Umm, no he's not.

It's because his job under Dungy and Caldwell was to get to the QB and not worry about anything else. So I'm not going to knock him for doing his job the way he was taught.

Well, that's your first mistake there is no gaps there was a gap.

None, because defending the run was not his responsibility. His responsibility was to get to the QB.

Actually he's due $14 million (his cap hit is $19 there is a difference) and what makes you think he's going to be an experiment? From everything that Pagano has said, his role is not going to change a lot. What will change is the freedom he has to pick the spot where he does it from.

Freeney has spent most of his football career doing things that they said he should not be able to do. The reason he fell to the Colts at 11 is because many thought he was too small to play DE in the NFL. The reason he went to Syracuse is because many bigger schools thought he was too small to play defensive end in college. The guys a football player. And yup he's due $19 million, he's earned it already.

Lol u really dont break film down good if u havent watched Freeney remove himself from a play,and the gaps im talking about is on new 3-4 not tampa 2.Freeneys spin move no good against the run and over 1 mill a sack not worth the price.

[Gavin]

I've watched Freeney for a lot of years. Unfortunately the only "film" I have is from my recordings and NFL game rewind. If you have some actual "film" of him, let me know and perhaps we can work out some sort of payment for you to ship it to me. I love breaking down film, I do a pretty good job with the TV broadcast but I could do a better job with actual film.

Umm, no he's not.

It's because his job under Dungy and Caldwell was to get to the QB and not worry about anything else. So I'm not going to knock him for doing his job the way he was taught.

Well, that's your first mistake there is no gaps there was a gap.

None, because defending the run was not his responsibility. His responsibility was to get to the QB.

Actually he's due $14 million (his cap hit is $19 there is a difference) and what makes you think he's going to be an experiment? From everything that Pagano has said, his role is not going to change a lot. What will change is the freedom he has to pick the spot where he does it from.

Freeney has spent most of his football career doing things that they said he should not be able to do. The reason he fell to the Colts at 11 is because many thought he was too small to play DE in the NFL. The reason he went to Syracuse is because many bigger schools thought he was too small to play defensive end in college. The guys a football player. And yup he's due $19 million, he's earned it already.

all true except football is a business and if you were a businessman man such as Irsay would you pay a guy 19 million in one year when hes 32 and moving to a position hes never played before? that sounds like bad business decision making to me

[deedub75]

I question everybodies status as a fan.

Have you guys not been watching dwight freeney over the past few years. He was one bad year, in a year everyone had a bad year and you act like he's a terrible player.

Freeney was the heart and soul of our defense, his absence the main reason we lost the Last super bowl we were in and and the most non stop motor of anyone in the entire league. If you going by stats, Lets drop brown...and Mathis and Wanyne, they all had down years.

If Peyton wasn't worth a $28M gamble then Freeney definately isn't worth a $19M gamble at linebacker. I want Freeney to stay but not at $19M.

[deedub75]

For those that are saying Freeney is horrible against the run, what exactly are you basing that on, tackle stats? It's certainly not from watching him. His tackling technique is sound, he does a good job of wrapping up, he has good explosion in his lower body when he makes contact. He has shown he knows how to read the plays and react and follow the ball.

Do you take into account at all that Freeney's only responsibility against the run was to tackle the runner IF he runs into him on the way to the passer? And the coaches and Polian actually stated that several times over the past 9 years.

I wouldn't say he's horrible against the run. He's a pass rushing specialist and he is always out of position to tackle the running backs. If Freeney wants to prolong his career, he probably needs to sign an extension. Maybe the Colts aren't even trying to extend him.

[deedub75]

Watch Freeneys film before you think he can play a 1 or 2 gap def.He is constantly running himself out of the play either spinning to the outside or bull rushing right past the running back.It takes patience and skill to defend your gaps how many times have you seen Freeney run himself outside too far to def run?

LOL! I don't think the spin move will work playing LB.

[OllyDawes]

BAD move to keep him PERIOD in my opinion if hes going to be tried out at linebacker then why dd we bring other linebackers in this is looking like a 19 million dollar gamble, Im not liking it, as I said before if it comes down to Dwight Freeny having to stop an Arian Foster or a Chris Johnson type player in open space theirs no way Im betting 19 million dollars he can

Uh, what other linebackers did we bring in?

[Gavin]

Uh, what other linebackers did we bring in?

Jerell Freeman Mario Addison looks like he will play linebacker as well at his size, Mario Harvey

[bahhummbug]

Lol u really dont break film down good if u havent watched Freeney remove himself from a play,and the gaps im talking about is on new 3-4 not tampa 2.Freeneys spin move no good against the run and over 1 mill a sack not worth the price.

WEre talking what he can do now not what hes done he will be a fail at LB .He averages ?30 tackles a year if hes not running himself outside the play he would have more?

[IndyTrav]

Good ole Dwight. Making $14mill. While Mathis just quietly does his thing. Its just astounding looking at the stats.

DF 129 Games Started. 102.5 Sacks. 13PD. 42FF. 256T

RM 71 Games Started. 83.5 Sacks. 15PD. 39FF. 305T

[Coffeedrinker]

Lol u really dont break film down good if u havent watched Freeney remove himself from a play,and the gaps im talking about is on new 3-4 not tampa 2.Freeneys spin move no good against the run and over 1 mill a sack not worth the price.

Well, I break down film better than you type the english language. And I stated that Freeney has been doing what the coaches have told him to do. That is not taking himself away from the run, it's going after the passer. And as I have said, nothing in Freeney's game indicates he cannot assume a different role and succeed. Just the opposite actually, his entire career has been with him being the best at what he does.

[Coffeedrinker]

all true except football is a business and if you were a businessman man such as Irsay would you pay a guy 19 million in one year when hes 32 and moving to a position hes never played before? that sounds like bad business decision making to me

You would be wrong. I would prefer if Freeney's restructures and takes his $14 million in a signing bonus and then lower his cap, there is no risk in him doing that and it would help the team in the short term. But it is a better business decision to pay Freeney 19 million than the expect a draft pick to come in a start and be productive. With any football player you look for not only the athletic ability and football skills but are they going to show up for practice, how will they perform on the field, will they take what they learn in practice and apply it immediately, will they be professional or will they be a distraction, will they be a problem off the field, will they need damage control, how will they handle the media. With Freeney you have all the answers to those questions already. Then add to that, the coach has already stated what type of role he will be playing, a role in which you know he has the athletic ability and intelligence to do. I don't know how any Colts fan would not be excited about the possibilities with Freeney in that role.

[Gavin]

You would be wrong. I would prefer if Freeney's restructures and takes his $14 million in a signing bonus and then lower his cap, there is no risk in him doing that and it would help the team in the short term. But it is a better business decision to pay Freeney 19 million than the expect a draft pick to come in a start and be productive. With any football player you look for not only the athletic ability and football skills but are they going to show up for practice, how will they perform on the field, will they take what they learn in practice and apply it immediately, will they be professional or will they be a distraction, will they be a problem off the field, will they need damage control, how will they handle the media. With Freeney you have all the answers to those questions already. Then add to that, the coach has already stated what type of role he will be playing, a role in which you know he has the athletic ability and intelligence to do. I don't know how any Colts fan would not be excited about the possibilities with Freeney in that role.

so its a better business decision to have a guy whos not played linebacker position before to expect him to finish out his career learning and playing a new position at 19 or 14 million dollars when we can get a guy whos actually played outside linebacker before? ok got ya -sarcastic- Im not saying he wont be successful Im not just betting the farm on it, what if he dont succeed hes already said he dont like the new scheme and idea that tells me something right their, then we will have paid him 14 million to play one year in a scheme he doesnt sound like he thinks he can even play in and then let him walk the next

[Happy2BeHere]

Freeney has a good D coach for the first time in his career right? More defensive minded and schemed coaches should make freeney even more valuable IMO. Don't buy a limo if you have no one to chauffeur it? Ala pagano for freeney....

[OllyDawes]

Jerell Freeman Mario Addison looks like he will play linebacker as well at his size, Mario Harvey

Hmm okay, but I don't think they're starting players. Freeman was a CFL player right?

[deedub75]

You would be wrong. I would prefer if Freeney's restructures and takes his $14 million in a signing bonus and then lower his cap, there is no risk in him doing that and it would help the team in the short term. But it is a better business decision to pay Freeney 19 million than the expect a draft pick to come in a start and be productive. With any football player you look for not only the athletic ability and football skills but are they going to show up for practice, how will they perform on the field, will they take what they learn in practice and apply it immediately, will they be professional or will they be a distraction, will they be a problem off the field, will they need damage control, how will they handle the media. With Freeney you have all the answers to those questions already. Then add to that, the coach has already stated what type of role he will be playing, a role in which you know he has the athletic ability and intelligence to do. I don't know how any Colts fan would not be excited about the possibilities with Freeney in that role.

If we weren't rebuilding, I would agree with you on paying Freeney vs expecting a draft pick to perform. Since we are rebuilding, we need to get young, cheaper players who we know can play in a certain system instead of paying Freeney $14M and taking a $19M cap hit on a veteran player who will probably spend less time on the field than he is used to.

With that being said, we are not going to be a good football team this season so it doesn't really matter if we keep Freeney under his current contract or not. It's Irsay's money and he can do what he wants to do with it.

[Gavin]

Hmm okay, but I don't think they're starting players. Freeman was a CFL player right?

he was but he has at least played the position before, Youttube has good footage on the guy, he looked pretty good, he can cover alot of ground to make a tackle and interception as well as rush the passer

[bahhummbug]

If we weren't rebuilding, I would agree with you on paying Freeney vs expecting a draft pick to perform. Since we are rebuilding, we need to get young, cheaper players who we know can play in a certain system instead of paying Freeney $14M and taking a $19M cap hit on a veteran player who will probably spend less time on the field than he is used to.

With that being said, we are not going to be a good football team this season so it doesn't really matter if we keep Freeney under his current contract or not. It's Irsay's money and he can do what he wants to do with it.

So many ways to gamble 14 million dollars sign 5 FAs for that money ,and as deedub said players that know the system would be a much better way to spend 14 mill.You can sign a CB TE NT WR and OG for that money?

[a06cc]

BAD move to keep him PERIOD in my opinion if hes going to be tried out at linebacker then why dd we bring other linebackers in this is looking like a 19 million dollar gamble, Im not liking it, as I said before if it comes down to Dwight Freeny having to stop an Arian Foster or a Chris Johnson type player in open space theirs no way Im betting 19 million dollars he can

Sorry man, but I seen Freeney chased down Kenny Britt who isn't as fast as Chris Johnson, but faster than Adrian Foster. He caused a fumble on the play as well. So I think he'd be fine playing that role on our team. With other players helping contain we'll be fine. I'd like to see Jerry Hughes get on the field as well with Mathis and Freeney. I'd like for us to be on the attack the whole time on defense.

[Gavin]

Sorry man, but I seen Freeney chased down Kenny Britt who isn't as fast as Chris Johnson, but faster than Adrian Foster. He caused a fumble on the play as well. So I think he'd be fine playing that role on our team. With other players helping contain we'll be fine. I'd like to see Jerry Hughes get on the field as well with Mathis and Freeney. I'd like for us to be on the attack the whole time on defense.

can ya find that play? but Id like to see Hughes get more time as well, Im not saying he (Freeny) cant play linebacker but it will be new to him and that money can be better used to get a guy that has played the position and definitly can play it instead of...well we will see

[a06cc]

can ya find that play? but Id like to see Hughes get more time as well, Im not saying he (Freeny) cant play linebacker but it will be new to him and that money can be better used to get a guy that has played the position and definitly can play it instead of...well we will see

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81cc6ada/Freeney-forces-a-fumble

[Gavin]

http://www.nfl.com/v...forces-a-fumble

Got to admit I am impressed that wasnt a good throw by collins though and Freeny wouldnt have been a factor if that was a better pass, but it does show his athletic ability and that he can chase guys down

[a06cc]

Got to admit I am impressed that wasnt a good throw by collins though and Freeny wouldnt have been a factor if that was a better pass, but it does show his athletic ability and that he can chase guys down

Yeah it wasn't a good pass because before that you can see Freeney jumped it offset the throw, then had to chase Kenny down to cause a fumble. That showed great ablities on Dwight behalf.

[Gavin]

Yeah it wasn't a good pass because before that you can see Freeney jumped it offset the throw, then had to chase Kenny down to cause a fumble. That showed great ablities on Dwight behalf.

I agree but my concern is more on with teams that use two tight end sets such as the Patriots and from what I hear Harbaugh wants to do that with the 49ers. Freeny would be exposed

[dgambill]

I'm done arguing about it. I'm prepared to see how he transitions on the field. I have explained and explained the downsides of Freeney. You suddenly want a guy to do more than he has ever asked to do and think his production is going to go up! Asking him to play the run means he has to play a bit slower..play the ball..hesitate. His game is all about speed and having no responsibility to anything else other than get to the qb. I just don't see him making the difference on the field the same as he used to. First off he is aging. Second his production has already gone down. Thirdly his contract is outrageous. If you pay people for what they already did and not what they are going to do then Peyton never would have got cut. That arguement is bogus. Look I've accepted we are going to give this a shot. But given what he has given us over the past 3 years he is not worth what he is being paid. He affects far to few plays. To suddenly think he is going to get better and have say like 3 years like he did in his prime is unreasonable. I think I am being very fair and objective in saying I don't expect a guy at this stage in his career to start expanding his role and yet be as affective a pass rusher as he was at age 26. It isn't reasonable. If they keep him he is going to rush the qb...and that is it. He isn't going to play every down and for a guy being paid 19 million that doesn't seem an effective way to use your cap..now or into the future. I wouldn't even pay Suggs that kind of money but maybe that is where we differ.

You say he has never been asked to play the run so don't take that into consideration. Well he needs to be able to in this new defense if he is going to be an every down OLB. If he isn't. He is still just a 4-3 pass rusher on a team that needs a 3-4 LB. To pay said player the money we are to me is a misallocation of funds. This team is REBUILDING. This team won't sniff the playoffs for at least 2-3 years. How is tying up a huge chunk of our salary cap into a player of Freeney's age going to help this team moving forward. How is going to help our young guys progress? Those that could be around in say 3 years when we are competing for a playoff spot. As of right now his contract hinders us from building a team said team. I think that money is better served building a team and investing in players that can help us down the road. I love our Colts. I hope we are better. Fact is we have serious holes all over our roster. So many that it will take a few drafts and a few offseasons of FAs to get us to the point we will be as competitive as we once were. Heck we are going to miss on players but even if every player we draft or pick up in FA becomes as good as we expect it takes a few years. Freeney isn't going to keep playing at the level he used to...he isn't now..so you take what he gave you...maybe you squeeze this last year out of him and move on. He isn't getting better...he isn't...he is on the decline it is plain fact as easy as anyone can see. He is on the downside of his career. Why do we wrap up even more money and more of our future into a player that isn't a part of it? I really wonder what people expect out of him and how much they would be willing to pay to keep him. I mean what would it take for people to see the fact that the player is on the decline. If any other players stats had gone down by 37.5% over the last 3 years and they were going into their 11th season would you not say that they are on the decline? This isn't one bad year...a year Freeney was just as responsible for as anyone else on the defense. This same guy you now think is capable of not only getting MORE sacks..but play the run too! I would like to live in that world. The guy has had a great talent for getting to the qb but clearly he is getting older and less productive. I must just be crazy that I don't want to pay him 19 million this year and extend him with a crazy salary over the next several years.

[IndyTrav]

Well, I break down film better than you type the english language. And I stated that Freeney has been doing what the coaches have told him to do. That is not taking himself away from the run, it's going after the passer. And as I have said, nothing in Freeney's game indicates he cannot assume a different role and succeed. Just the opposite actually, his entire career has been with him being the best at what he does.

He's been "the best at what he does" exactly 1 time. In 2004.

[Coffeedrinker]

If we weren't rebuilding, I would agree with you on paying Freeney vs expecting a draft pick to perform. Since we are rebuilding, we need to get young, cheaper players who we know can play in a certain system instead of paying Freeney $14M and taking a $19M cap hit on a veteran player who will probably spend less time on the field than he is used to.

Good point about rebuilding. But I have a question. Who are these young, cheaper players who we know can play in the system? I'[ve looked at all the FA and there are some that would be cheaper but I didn't see any that would be a better value.

Lastly, why would Freeney see the field less than he's used to? Last year was another reason why I could not stand Coyer, he would have Freeny and Mathis on the sideline just about every 1st and 10, so the team would throw, then it's be 2nd and short and he'd keep Freeney and Mathis on the sideline, then it's be 1st down or 3rd and short, Frathis would come in, QB would take a 2 step drop dump it off of a quick slant, 1st down. He and Mathis were completely misused in 2011

[Coffeedrinker]

He's been "the best at what he does" exactly 1 time. In 2004.

That's nonsense. I like stats as much as the next person, but if you only look at sacks then you are ignoring other facts because they don't support your idea or you just don't understand the game of football. I've read enough of you IndyTrav to know in this case it's the former not the latter. Ever since he became the starter half way through his rookie year, teams game plan specifically to try and take him out of the game. He causes more olines to change their strategy for one week than just about any other single player in the NFL. The only ones that come close are Williams, Allen, Suggs and Ware. And now Freeney will have similar responsibilities as Suggs and Ware.

[Gavin]

That's nonsense. I like stats as much as the next person, but if you only look at sacks then you are ignoring other facts because they don't support your idea or you just don't understand the game of football. I've read enough of you IndyTrav to know in this case it's the former not the latter. Ever since he became the starter half way through his rookie year, teams game plan specifically to try and take him out of the game. He causes more olines to change their strategy for one week than just about any other single player in the NFL. The only ones that come close are Williams, Allen, Suggs and Ware. And now Freeney will have similar responsibilities as Suggs and Ware.

Well dont forget Jason Pierre Paul

[Coffeedrinker]

I'm done arguing about it. I'm prepared to see how he transitions on the field. I have explained and explained the downsides of Freeney. You suddenly want a guy to do more than he has ever asked to do and think his production is going to go up! Asking him to play the run means he has to play a bit slower..play the ball..hesitate. His game is all about speed and having no responsibility to anything else other than get to the qb. I just don't see him making the difference on the field the same as he used to. First off he is aging. Second his production has already gone down. Thirdly his contract is outrageous. If you pay people for what they already did and not what they are going to do then Peyton never would have got cut. That arguement is bogus. Look I've accepted we are going to give this a shot. But given what he has given us over the past 3 years he is not worth what he is being paid. He affects far to few plays. To suddenly think he is going to get better and have say like 3 years like he did in his prime is unreasonable. I think I am being very fair and objective in saying I don't expect a guy at this stage in his career to start expanding his role and yet be as affective a pass rusher as he was at age 26. It isn't reasonable. If they keep him he is going to rush the qb...and that is it. He isn't going to play every down and for a guy being paid 19 million that doesn't seem an effective way to use your cap..now or into the future. I wouldn't even pay Suggs that kind of money but maybe that is where we differ.

This is complete nonsense and shows a lack of understanding of the game of football. You want to say his production as gone done yet that is not back up by any meaningful stats such as his TF (which as always been low), his +EPA and +EPA/game have always been in the top 10 in the NFL. The only thing that happened last year was his snaps were reduced but not because of Freeney but because of Coyer.

Also, of course you pay a player for what he has done, that is why players often take less at first because they will make it up in the end. Plus you can't really compare it to Manning's contract because Freeney is not coming off a year long injury and Freeney is not due a large signing bonus, it's just the last year of his contract.

You say he has never been asked to play the run so don't take that into consideration. Well he needs to be able to in this new defense if he is going to be an every down OLB. If he isn't. He is still just a 4-3 pass rusher on a team that needs a 3-4 LB.

Why do you think the Colts are going to be a 3-4 team? Again the coach talks about his having his hand in the dirt.

This team is REBUILDING.

Wow, someone else says that and now you are going jump all over it. Problem is you can't rebuild an entire team in one year, two who is out there that would be a better value, three, if there was an aging guy who was a real difference maker on the field everyone would want that guy signed because he's disruptive on the field and he could mentor the younger players, yet if that player is already on the team then some people want to get rid of him.

This team won't sniff the playoffs for at least 2-3 years. How is tying up a huge chunk of our salary cap into a player of Freeney's age going to help this team moving forward.

Because it's a position they don't have to worry about this year. Like you said they are rebuilding, they have a lot of positions to focus on, now with Freeney and Mathis they don't have to focus a lot of attention on that position this year.

How is going to help our young guys progress?

What young guys is it going to hinder?

Those that could be around in say 3 years when we are competing for a playoff spot. As of right now his contract hinders us from building a team said team.

Who specifically are those players?

I think that money is better served building a team and investing in players that can help us down the road.

Again, you'd be wrong.

I love our Colts. I hope we are better. Fact is we have serious holes all over our roster. So many that it will take a few drafts and a few offseasons of FAs to get us to the point we will be as competitive as we once were. Heck we are going to miss on players but even if every player we draft or pick up in FA becomes as good as we expect it takes a few years. Freeney isn't going to keep playing at the level he used to...he isn't now..so you take what he gave you...maybe you squeeze this last year out of him and move on.

Again, assuming what you say is true, he allows the Colts to not worry about that position for 2012 and perhaps even 2013.

He isn't getting better...he isn't...he is on the decline it is plain fact as easy as anyone can see. He is on the downside of his career.

Again, you are wrong. The only thing that declined last year was his snaps and that was Coyer wanting to use Anderson and brayton on 1st and 2nd downs. His effectiveness per play stayed the same that it's been for the last 5 years.

Why do we wrap up even more money and more of our future into a player that isn't a part of it? I really wonder what people expect out of him and how much they would be willing to pay to keep him. I mean what would it take for people to see the fact that the player is on the decline. If any other players stats had gone down by 37.5% over the last 3 years and they were going into their 11th season would you not say that they are on the decline? This isn't one bad year...a year Freeney was just as responsible for as anyone else on the defense. This same guy you now think is capable of not only getting MORE sacks..but play the run too! I would like to live in that world. The guy has had a great talent for getting to the qb but clearly he is getting older and less productive. I must just be crazy that I don't want to pay him 19 million this year and extend him with a crazy salary over the next several years.

Again, if you want to pick and chose which stats you look at then fine. But when you look at his QB hurries, pressures, sacks EPA/game they've all stayed statistically similar for the past several years.