2021 Preseason Game #2: Colts at Vikings, Saturday, Aug. 21st, 8pm ET

[Nelson56]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

A lot of people do and/or could watch the game like @RollerColt and @danlhart87

 

Huh?

[krunk]

24 minutes ago, T-Cubed said:

Was that Patmon playing gunner and catching the last punt on the 5.

Him playing gunner boost him over Dulin then. I got zero problem keeping him and Strachan

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Watch him play week in and week out. Your mind will change. Case Keenum played so much better and the OL was not that much better. Kirk gives outsiders the appearance that he is doing well because his INTs are low. It is because he plays safe football. Even in preseason he is playing safe. Throw the ball down the field, Kirk and test your receivers.

 

We will never win with Cousins at QB. 

Safe football is a product of OCing/coaching more than it's not. 

If you hate safe, Reich has been the king of safe. He's just had a good OL to make things easier.

 

And honestly I think the improved WR depth is going to help you guys. 

 

So Cousin's has had a QBR in the low 60s the last two years. Rivers was only 62.5 in 2020. Cousins a tad bit higher. If Cousins broke 70, would you be happy? Brady was 72ish.

[Jackie Daytona]

6 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I watched a game last that coach switched QBs every series and won going away

Was it southern Indiana HS game? Cause that doesn't count.....lol.

[EastStreet]

Just now, krunk said:

Him playing gunner boost him over Dulin then. I got zero problem keeping him and Strachan

Playing gunner, and doing well are two different things though. 

 

The bag on Patmon is that he's not physical. He could turn that perception around if he got some nice hits on STs.

[NFLfan]

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This is Kirk after that post - aren't you guys stuck with him for a while because of his contract?

 

Another year or two. I had hoped that we could trade him to the 49ers for anything... their long snapper, maybe. I would have been happy getting Jimmy G in return.  QBs are supposed to be leaders. It is Adam Thielen, Eric Kendricks, even newbie Dalvin Tomlinson speaking for the team. It should be Kirk. 

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

Was it southern Indiana HS game? Cause that doesn't count.....lol.

 It was the top 4 team in nation Saint John Bosco of California 
 

 

[krunk]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Playing gunner, and doing well are two different things though. 

 

The bag on Patmon is that he's not physical. He could turn that perception around if he got some nice hits on STs.

We will see but on the flip side Dulin is not a productive receiver. How much value are we going to keep putting on Dulin special teams play? Im sorry but Patmon can play

 

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Another year or two. I had hoped that we could trade him to the 49ers for anything... their long snapper, maybe. I would have been happy getting Jimmy G in return.  QBs are supposed to be leaders. It is Adam Thielen, Eric Kendricks, even newbie Dalvin Tomlinson speaking for the team. It should be Kirk. 

[PrincetonTiger]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

We will see but on the flip side Dulin is not a productive receiver. How much value are we going to keep putting on Dulin special teams play? Im sorry but Patmon can play

 

There are so many factors that will determine the final 53 many the will not be privy to

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

We will see but on the flip side Dulin is not a productive receiver. How much value are we going to keep putting on Dulin special teams play? Im sorry but Patmon can play

 

Not sure I'm to the point to say that (the bolded). Last season he was mostly the "rub" guy, rarely ever the target read. He's been hurt in camp till lately to this year.

 

I'd like to see him get non-X targets. If we're going to play him at X, no reason to keep him (so I would agree). He should be getting slot or Z reps IMO, and not just slot reps where he's the rub guy.

 

But I think the bigger question is, is Reich going to want three X type WRs plus Pascal, and only two shifty guys.

[NFLfan]

9 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Safe football is a product of OCing/coaching more than it's not. 

If you hate safe, Reich has been the king of safe. He's just had a good OL to make things easier.

 

And honestly I think the improved WR depth is going to help you guys. 

 

So Cousin's has had a QBR in the low 60s the last two years. Rivers was only 62.5 in 2020. Cousins a tad bit higher. If Cousins broke 70, would you be happy? Brady was 72ish.

 

I don't like stats. You have to watch him play. In the first halves of most games, you would think it is Painter out there. In the second halves with less pressure on him, he gets his completions, yards, and TDs. Did you ever think Bortles was great? His 2015 season (I think that is the year), he had numbers like Kirk's, Yet no one who watched him thought he was a great QB. Many of his TDs and other stats he got in garbage time. Same for Cousins. I like QBs like Andrew Lucks, Josh Allens, Mahomes, guys who go all out. 

 

I hope you get to watch a game this year. (BTW, he had Diggs and Thielen in the past. JJ replaced Diggs.)

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

Patmon is running a lot of the same plays we used Pittman on last season. He looks great. It helps him and Eason have worked together in the off season the two past off seasons.

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Not sure I'm to the point to say that (the bolded). Last season he was mostly the "rub" guy, rarely ever the target read. He's been hurt in camp till lately to this year.

 

I'd like to see him get non-X targets. If we're going to play him at X, no reason to keep him (so I would agree). He should be getting slot or Z reps IMO, and not just slot reps where he's the rub guy.

 

But I think the bigger question is, is Reich going to want three X type WRs plus Pascal, and only two shifty guys.

It’s going to be hard to get playing time after the top 4. So just sneak some of those other guys on to the PS and keep all the x.

[EastStreet]

Just now, NFLfan said:

 

I don't like stats. You have to watch him play. In the first halves of most games, you would think it is Painter out there. In the second halves with less pressure on him, he gets his completions, yards, and TDs. Did you ever think Bortles was great? His 2015 season (I think that is the year), he had numbers like Kirk's, Yet no one who watched him thought he was a great QB. Many of his TDs and other stats he got in garbage time. Same for Cousins. I like QBs like Andrew Lucks, Josh Allens, Mahomes, guys who go all out. 

 

I hope you get to watch a game this year. (BTW, he had Diggs and Thielen in the past. JJ replaced Diggs.)

I actually watched a few MN games last year. If they were on my local broadcast, I watched. I'm a Rudoph and Harrison fan, and also wanted to follow JJ. I agree Cousin isn't great, but I just always thought his OL was horrible. I mean, he was top 10 in YPG, and also top 10 in sacks lol... One has to believe that his performance improves is he's not sacked 40 times a year.

 

On the WRs, I think your overall depth is going to get better and better this year. Really interested to see how KJO and ISM do. And I think JJ will be even more of a monster this year.

[TaylorTheStudMuffin]

Here is Patmon on ST.

 

 

[NFLfan]

8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I actually watched a few MN games last year. If they were on my local broadcast, I watched. I'm a Rudoph and Harrison fan, and also wanted to follow JJ. I agree Cousin isn't great, but I just always thought his OL was horrible. I mean, he was top 10 in YPG, and also top 10 in sacks lol... One has to believe that his performance improves is he's not sacked 40 times a year.

 

On the WRs, I think your overall depth is going to get better and better this year. Really interested to see how KJO and ISM do. And I think JJ will be even more of a monster this year.

 

Everyone seems high on Osborn (KJO). 

 

I'm telling you. Keenum did not have an OL that was much better. Yet he was able to evade pressure and make plays. Zimmer thought he took too many risks but he played to win. Cousins seems to play to keep his contract -- put up glowing stats to use to justify what he receives. Yet the stats mean nothing, as they don't lead to wins. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

Everyone seems high on Osborn (KJO). 

 

I'm telling you. Keenum did not have an OL that was much better. Yet he was able to evade pressure and make plays. Zimmer thought he took too many risks but he played to win. Cousins seems to play to keep his contract -- put up glowing stats to use to justify what he receives. Yet the stats mean nothing, as they don't lead to wins. 

Sounds like coaching philosophy issues

[PrincetonTiger]

This was a game that gave gray hair to the Offensive staffs for both teams

[EastStreet]

45 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Everyone seems high on Osborn (KJO). 

 

I'm telling you. Keenum did not have an OL that was much better. Yet he was able to evade pressure and make plays. Zimmer thought he took too many risks but he played to win. Cousins seems to play to keep his contract -- put up glowing stats to use to justify what he receives. Yet the stats mean nothing, as they don't lead to wins. 

 

I do recall Keenum having a nice year, but honestly that was like his best season, EVER lol... 

 

So that was 2017, and you'll see below, Keenum's year was the peak of MN's pass blocking ranks. Had some decent years run blocking though. 2019 was weighed down by pass blocking.

 

here's MN's OL rank

2016 - 29th overal

2017 - 22th overall, but top 10 pass blocking (3rd fewest sacks allowed) and the best pass blocking grade the last 6 years

2018 - 29th - PFF said worst pass blocking IOL in the league lol

2019 - 19th overall, but 27th pass blocking, and PFF actually predicted they were going to get worse in 2020

2020 - 26th overall, 28th pass blocking. and again, worst IOL in the league

2021 (pre season rank) - 27th

 

I hear what you're saying, but with ranks like that, I'd be more angry at the coaches and GM for how bad the OL has been for the last 5+ years. Not a lot of QBs can be successful under those conditions. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I do recall Keenum having a nice year, but honestly that was like his best season, EVER lol... 

 

So that was 2017, and you'll see below, Keenum's year was the peak of MN's pass blocking ranks. Had some decent years run blocking though. 2019 was weighed down by pass blocking.

 

here's MN's OL rank

2016 - 29th overal

2017 - 22th overall, but top 10 pass blocking (3rd fewest sacks allowed) and the best pass blocking grade the last 6 years

2018 - 29th - PFF said worst pass blocking IOL in the league lol

2019 - 19th overall, but 27th pass blocking, and PFF actually predicted they were going to get worse in 2020

2020 - 26th overall, 28th pass blocking. and again, worst IOL in the league

2021 (pre season rank) - 27th

 

I hear what you're saying, but with ranks like that, I'd be more angry at the coaches and GM for how bad the OL has been for the last 5+ years. Not a lot of QBs can be successful under those conditions. 

Keenum wasn't winning SB IMO but I think @NFLfan is talking more about chemistry for the team. Kirk is clearly better but the chemistry hasn't been there for some reason since he has been a Viking.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Chemistry is huge, for example I would take the 1987 Lakers or the 1996 Bulls over any olympic team full of all-stars except the original dream team but that team had Jordan and Magic on it lol.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Chemistry is huge, for example I would take the 1987 Lakers or the 1996 Bulls over any olympic team full of all-stars except the original dream team but that team had Jordan and Magic on it lol.

How dare you pick against any team team featuring the Hick from French Lick

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

How dare you pick against any team team featuring the Hick from French Lick

 

I would take the 1986 Celtics over anyone else as well 

[EastStreet]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Keenum wasn't winning SB IMO but I think @NFLfan is talking more about chemistry for the team. Kirk is clearly better but the chemistry hasn't been there for some reason since he has been a Viking.

It's just hard to have chemistry when your OL is ranked near the bottom in pass blocking for so long. 

 

His contract has big time dead cap IIRC, like 40+M if they release him next year. IMO, they should sit back, let him finish out his contract, and then move on. And during that time, build the freaking OL lol.... Darrisaw is a good start, but they need more. If they can somehow get a good QB next draft, do it, but IMO MN will likely be .500 or better this year.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

It's just hard to have chemistry when your OL is ranked near the bottom in pass blocking for so long. 

 

His contract has big time dead cap IIRC, like 40+M if they release him next year. IMO, they should sit back, let him finish out his contract, and then move on. And during that time, build the freaking OL lol.... Darrisaw is a good start, but they need more. If they can somehow get a good QB next draft, do it, but IMO MN will likely be .500 or better this year.

I have Minny at 9-8 so we are on the same page as usual. They could go 10-7. Kirk is good but just not that very good or great QB that Vikings fan want. Lets face it, that division is over when Rodgers plays anyways. It is GB's to lose.

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have Minny at 9-8 so we are on the same page as usual. They could go 10-7. Kirk is good but just not that very good or great QB that Vikings fan want. Lets face it, that division is over when Rodgers plays anyways. It is GB's to lose.

I could see them winning anywhere from 6-11 games lol... huge range. 

Just so much parity going on. FPI projections have them at 8.5 lol... 

[Walkingbear4343]

5 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Yep. Just saying Hines and a couple passes to pascal carried Sam.

Would like to see Sam play the whole game.  Could said something similar the week before with Eason. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I could see them winning anywhere from 6-11 games lol... huge range. 

Just so much parity going on. FPI projections have them at 8.5 lol... 

I have them at 9.5 we are close.

[stitches]

8 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

Maybe @EastStreet and @stitches can help Rick get a QB. 

 

@MB-ColtsFan You made a good choice in selecting the Colts over the Vikes. The Vikings and the Lions are the only NFC teams not to make the Super Bowl since I have been following football (early 1990s.)

Careful what you wish for @NFLfan. My record with QBs is pretty bad  

 

I'm just watching the game now. Holy moly you guys might have a worse QB situation than us. Why is Browning playing ahead of Mond? You have to pray Cousins doesn't get hurt. At least he's competent. 

 

 

 

[landrus13]

At least the defense looked ready for Week 1. They were phenomenal all night. If they play like that against Seattle, I like our chances if our QB doesn't turn it over. 

[NFLfan]

11 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

I do recall Keenum having a nice year, but honestly that was like his best season, EVER lol... 

 

So that was 2017, and you'll see below, Keenum's year was the peak of MN's pass blocking ranks. Had some decent years run blocking though. 2019 was weighed down by pass blocking.

 

here's MN's OL rank

2016 - 29th overal

2017 - 22th overall, but top 10 pass blocking (3rd fewest sacks allowed) and the best pass blocking grade the last 6 years

2018 - 29th - PFF said worst pass blocking IOL in the league lol

2019 - 19th overall, but 27th pass blocking, and PFF actually predicted they were going to get worse in 2020

2020 - 26th overall, 28th pass blocking. and again, worst IOL in the league

2021 (pre season rank) - 27th

 

I hear what you're saying, but with ranks like that, I'd be more angry at the coaches and GM for how bad the OL has been for the last 5+ years. Not a lot of QBs can be successful under those conditions. 

 

Keenum made the pass blocking look better. He stepped away from pressure and avoided getting sacks by running. Keenum was not the greatest passer but he did not have to be. He used all his receivers and gave them a chance to  make plays. All I can say is that sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts (parts = stats). 

 

Anyhow, I know you are big on stats. Check this out. Maybe our OL will be better this year. LT was the problem yesterday. Hopefully, Darrisaw will play.

 

 

 

[TimetobringDfence!]

20 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Bad pass

It was high but not outta reach Campbell straight dropped a ball that it two hands clean. More on Campbell than Sam in my opinion.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

It was high but not outta reach Campbell straight dropped a ball that it two hands clean. More on Campbell than Sam in my opinion.

I agree

[EastStreet]

6 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

 

 

Well that doesn't speak so well of our DL lol... 

 

Ezra has really struggled in the past Surprised to see him on the list.