Ellinger Arm strength

[Walkingbear4343]

3 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Rick Venturi made a good point. Sams arm strength and velocity may not effect him getting down the field but when you get in the red zone where you have to rifle it in with some velocity is where it could hurt because you have to throw it into tight windows.

 

Sam had no problem throwing with velocity.  Tested around the top.  Yet a another myth. 

[TonyBungee]

On 8/11/2021 at 10:57 AM, Coltsfan98 said:

Deep balls aren't all about arm strength. The out route is a better indicator of arm strength. When a QB has to sling it to the field side on a rope without much step into it ability. IMO too much is made about arm strength. To me decision making and accuracy are the biggest traits for a QB.

I agree.  On the out route, ball velocity is often the difference between a 1st down & a pick-6.  It doesn't matter as much on the deep ball, except for maybe Luck's missile to TY in the KC playoff game. : )

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

19 hours ago, Walkingbear4343 said:

 

Sam had no problem throwing with velocity.  Tested around the top.  Yet a another myth. 

There was no combine.

[Walkingbear4343]

Been working a lot so haven’t found the tweets.  I’ll take look around when I have Chance.  But they tests Sam velocity and compared it to 2019 quarterbacks.  Meant to find it earlier and post it.

[throwing BBZ]

On 8/10/2021 at 6:17 PM, Boondoggle said:

When NFL teams talk about "arm strength" what they're talking about is the deep out and whether you can muscle it out there in a hurry.  This is because the deep out is required to force a team to defend the entire field.  Also that particular part of the field, if you don't have enough arm strength and your ball "floats" there, can result in a pick six in a hurry.  Because of the open field around you when you receive the ball outside the hashes.

 

There's a lot of QBs who can arc the ball deep and let a WR run under it.  That's a whole different animal than throwing that deep out vs a good ballhawking corner.  Also of note is that there's a big difference in a QB who has average arm strength on that throw and a guy like say Mahomes or Stafford throwing it.  Those guys can actually be a bit late on the throw which buys them room for error.

 

So from that perspective Ehlinger basically means a corner outside the hashes can be a little lazy defending that deep out, DCs can play their corners on inside leverage even on downs/distances where the offense will be looking to save clock, and if the QB's arm is suspect enough can even have more room for error on double moves because, well, the safeties will have another step or two to get to the ball as well.

 

I don't know where Ehlinger fits on all that, i.e. how weak exactly his arm might be.  I just know he's not a guy who's gonna gun that out and put fear in corners with that part of the field.  He's gonna see more coverages with the middle blanketed basically.

 

 Troy Aikman made it to the Hall of Fame because he could Rifle the 25 yard out.
 Well, Larry Allen, the rest of that excellent O-Line, Emmitt, and Irvin helped carry him in somewhat!   
 The day this kid can move the ball from the 25 to their 25, the timing and touch factor is paramount. He is interesting already so that is a fun thing to coach and be a fan of. What would Sean Payton do with him?

[masterlock]

On 8/10/2021 at 3:20 PM, Mitch Connors said:

The time it takes the ball to travel that distance is more important than the distance thrown. I may very well be able to throw a baseball as far as a few professional baseball players but the big big big difference is my throw looks like a rainbow and takes 3 seconds to get there while there's looks like a bullet and takes 1 second. Those extra 2 seconds in the air are the difference between a single and a double.

The same is true here. Extra hang time on a deep pass allows enough time for a defender to get under the pass and make a play on it. This is why arm strength is so sought after in the NFL. 

This is true, however, a good velocity can be negated by slow decision making, as when a QB takes too long to process the defensive front, go through his reads, survey the field, etc. Ideally, you'd be able to do both well. So long as the ball isn't THAT much slower, I'd lean towards the guy with the better processing/decision-making ability.

[TimetobringDfence!]

45 minutes ago, masterlock said:

This is true, however, a good velocity can be negated by slow decision making, as when a QB takes too long to process the defensive front, go through his reads, survey the field, etc. Ideally, you'd be able to do both well. So long as the ball isn't THAT much slower, I'd lean towards the guy with the better processing/decision-making ability.

I'll say this if our WRs step up to be big blockers on runs and screens we can be very successful with the quick release guy. Just run a fake screen or run when you decide to sneak a guy deep. 

[jvan1973]

On 8/11/2021 at 5:36 PM, Walkingbear4343 said:

 

Sam had no problem throwing with velocity.  Tested around the top.  Yet a another myth. 

When and where was this tested?

[einherjahren]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

When and where was this tested?

I feel like you guys are way overthinking all of this.  Sam is not Colt McCoy.  McCoy never had a rocket of an arm but when he was injured in the 2009 NC game he lost his entire ability to throw and had to reteach himself.  His arm strength was never the same.

 

Here is a bit of a history lesson on Sam.  He played at Texas his Freshman year when Texas had only 6 healthy scholarship lineman on the entire team.  He won the job because he was very good at avoiding the rush and throwing on the run.  In his second game at Texas as a true Freshman he led a 90 yard scoring drive to put Texas ahead of top 5 USC led by Sam Darnold with 20 seconds left.  Even early on he had a grit and poise I have rarely seen.  His sophomore year Texas brought in some transfers  on the offensive line and it was much improved.  He led Texas to a 10 win season and Sam carried Texas to wins against Kyler Murray and OU, and Jake Fromm and Georgia.  Sam was efficient as a passer and like a young Mike Alstott as a runner that year.  Then came 2019 and the expectations were sky high at Texas.  Texas romped Lousiana Tech in the first game but Sam suffered an injury to his rib cage.  We would only find this out later because he would play the entire season with it.  The next game he would pass for 450 yards and 5 touchdowns against the eventual national champions in LSU.  He carved apart their defense better than anyone else and if the Texas defense even had a slightly better showing or the Texas running backs hold on to a couple easily catchable balls in the end zone then Texas wins that game and Sam’s career arc takes an extremely different course.  Sam kept playing well that year but just looked “off”.  We would only learn after the season about the run injury even though many suspected he was injured.  The offensive line could not block a stunt to save their lives.  Texas and Sam get healthy for the bowl game and destroy a top ten Utah team in the bowl game.  This last season was really weird at Texas.  The team was talented but out of sorts.  Tom Herman was under fire for lack of performance.  They had replaced 7 assistant coaches including the OC and QB coach.  They didn’t have spring football to learn the new scheme due to Covid.  There were all sorts of political stances made by Texas players that threatened to divide the locker room.  Texas had also lost two NFL caliber wide receivers in Devin Duvernay and Collin Johnson.  So Sam was going to have to step up his game.  Despite all of that he singlehandedly led Texas to many come from behind wins and put Texas in position to win all three game they lost.  Sam threw 26 TDs and 5 interceptions in 10 games.  Sam put a Texas team in position to go undefeated that without him would have lost 5-6 games.

 
Let me put this discussion about his physical shortcomings to bed by saying Sam is accurate enough to be an NFL starter, his arm is strong enough to be an NFL starter, he is built like a rhinocerous and he plays hurt.  He is sharp as they come as a QB and is a natural leader who is at his very best when the lights are bright, the stakes are high and odds stacked against him.

[SteelCityColt]

Interesting viewpoint put forward in this, that he has the arm strength but just isn't that good at throwing deep:

 

https://assets-global.website-files.com/5988f684fda8db00017f4dee/600ecf7cf71b5f338571e94e_CFM21_QB_Ehlinger_Sam.pdf

[Mr. Irrelevant]

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

Interesting viewpoint put forward in this, that he has the arm strength but just isn't that good at throwing deep:

 

https://assets-global.website-files.com/5988f684fda8db00017f4dee/600ecf7cf71b5f338571e94e_CFM21_QB_Ehlinger_Sam.pdf

Very interesting read. Have to say that I’m intrigued now.
 

Sounds like a very interesting option for an offense that that can thrive on short/medium passing and be a bully from a physically standpoint even with the WRs. But not sure if you can keep the defense honest when they know you will never throw deep.

[SteelCityColt]

39 minutes ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

Very interesting read. Have to say that I’m intrigued now.
 

Sounds like a very interesting option for an offense that that can thrive on short/medium passing and be a bully from a physically standpoint even with the WRs. But not sure if you can keep the defense honest when they know you will never throw deep.

 

If he has the raw strength, but lacks accuracy, you'd think to work in some P/A shot plays where you can toss it up there with fairly minimal risk. Even if you miss on them you'd hope it would keep the D somewhat honest. Massively helps we have an actual run game these days.

[Walkingbear4343]

6 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

When and where was this tested?

It’s been a while but I believe it was tested by Bobby stroupe.  

 

https://twitter.com/bobbystroupe/status/1369397167824199680?s=21