Reggie misses HOF

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

K.....we differ

You think Nelson is a hall of famer but think he is over rated?

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

You think Nelson is a hall of famer but think he is over rated?

Sounds like faulty logic

[Moosejawcolt]

11 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

You think Nelson is a hall of famer but think he is over rated?

I was using him as an example 

[CurBeatElite]

On 2/6/2021 at 9:29 PM, CR91 said:

 

If we're talking third or fourth try sure. Go ask Cris Carter, but this is first ballot. TO's numbers are way better and he waited three years.

 

The HOF is also voted by members of the media and TO had a horrible relationship with the media throughout his career.  He did disrespectful things on the field (e.g., standing on the Cowboys' star), was typically a locker room cancer, didn't get along with media and had off-field issues.  While they say voting is supposed to be based on what you did on the field... the voting is still conducted by media who are humans, and most of whom probably didn't like TO very much.

 

On 2/6/2021 at 11:33 PM, Superman said:

Calvin > Reggie, and I'm a huge Reggie fan, but it's not and never was close. Calvin was always going in first ballot. I wish Reggie was in this year, but he's gotta wait. 

 

Not saying Calvin's not better than Reggie.  He was an absolute freak of nature and definitely changed the way the game (at least the position of WR) was played more than Reggie.  

 

That said, in his 9 years, Calvin only eclipsed 100 receptions in a season once.  Reggie eclipsed it 2x in his first 9 seasons.  Megatron was the NFL receiving yards leader 2x, which Reggie was once (also within his first 9 seasons).  Megatron did set the league record for receiving yards in a season once (2012, the same year he had >100 receptions).  Reggie's in the 1000+ reception club, which Calvin is not, Reggie is top 10 all time in receptions and receiving yards and very high up in playoff accomplishments (3rd all time in post-season receptions, until last night was 5th in receiving yards, and tied for 9th for TDs).. CJ has no relevance to playoff stats.  

 

Not shocked that CJ got in as a first ballot.  He was an absolute freak, but other than 1-2 years, he never really put up great numbers (i.e., 2011 96 receptions for 1681 yards and 2012 122 receptions for 1984 yards -- otherwise, he never had more than 90 receptions in a season).  Reggie had 4 seasons with 100+ receptions and 8 with >1,000 yards (compared to CJ 1 and 7, respectively).  

 

All that said, I wouldn't have been shocked if CJ didn't go in first ballot and Wayne went in over him, simply because his career wasn't long-enough, he only had one 100+ reception season, he wasn't in the 1000+ receptions club, and wasn't in the top 30 in NFL History in receiving yards (Wayne top 10), wasn't in the top 45 for receptions (Wayne top 10), and didn't have the prolific post-season career that Wayne did (which includes a huge reception in a game where he got a ring). 

 

In all honesty, if CJ is a first ballot HOFer, then it should be a sin that Sterling Sharpe is still not in the HOF.  Like Megatron, his career was cut short... but in a much different league (i.e., less passer/WR friendly) Sharpe led the NFL in receptions 3x, eclipsed 100 receptions 2x and 90 2 more times in 7 years, led the NFL in TDs 2x and receiving yards 1x.  

 

____________________________________

 

Reggie will get in... and I was hoping it'd be yesterday.  Oh well, his time will come.  A huge factor against Reggie in voters eyes, at least IMO, is that he was second fiddle to Marv for the first portion of his career.  It will be interesting as guys like Steve Smith, Anquan Boldin and Andre Johnson become eligible next year.  All have very similar career numbers to Wayne (very similar)..... I'll be pretty disappointed if any of them get in before Wayne, though -- if he has to wait, they all should, too.

 

 

[crazycolt1]

As a Colt fan I am not going to be jealous of Megatron getting into the HOF before Reggie.

Reggie's turn will come and it will be sweet. 

Least we forget that each player nominated to enter the HOF is voted on as individuals. It makes no difference what other players did or didn't do. 

Like I said earlier, the committee members have their own thoughts on who to vote for. I am pretty sure they all don't agree or have the same opinions. There is not a certain criteria that is in black and white that determines who is in or who is out. 

[IinD]

I miss the Reggie chants at games.

[Narcosys]

On 2/8/2021 at 5:31 PM, CurBeatElite said:

definitely changed the way the game (at least the position of WR) was played more than Reggie.  

 

How?

[2006Coltsbestever]

I really don't think Reggie got screwed, he will get in, maybe next year. I have him top 15ish of all-time which is extremely great but Megatron is top 10 IMO. Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 years or even longer for great WR's to get in. Marvin was a no brainer and he even had to wait a year lol. Marvin is top 5 ever IMO.

[CurBeatElite]

3 hours ago, Narcosys said:

How?

 

Reggie was 6'0" 200 lbs when he played here.  Average sized guy.  He ran very good routes, had very good hands, and was a very good teammate.  The only game I ever remember where Reggie was a 'game wrecker' was the GB game after Pagano got diagnosed with cancer.  Otherwise, he was a very good/great WR but was consistent more so than a guy who  put enormous fear into another team, or changed another team's entire game plan just for him.  Reggie as a rookie had the 6th most receptions on the Colts (behind Marvin, Pollard, Dilger, Terrence WIlkins and Rhodes).  In year 2, he was behind Marvin and Edge (but way behind) and barely above Qadry Ismail and Pollard in terms of receptions.  In years 3 and 4, he became a true #2 WR.  In years 5-6, he became a #1A type of WR.  In year 7 (the year Marvin got hurt), he stepped up like a true #1 WR and eclipsed 100 receptions for the first time in his career.  In year 8, it was kind of a 3 headed passing monster with Wayne, Clark and Marv and year 9 (when Marv retired) Wayne and Clark were both 100 reception, 1000+ yard guys.  In year 10, he was the main guy again like he was in year 7.  In year 11, he and Garcon were basically 1A and 1B.  In year 12, he was Luck's main guy... and then year 13 he got hurt and year 14 he was a step slower than he had been and was the #2 WR to TY..

 

In short, Reggie was a great player... but really for only 3 of his 14 years was he hands down the primary receiving weapon on offense, though WR-wise (i.e., not counting Clark as a TE), he was the #1 WR for 5 years.  In his first 2 years, he wasn't even a clear cut #2 WR, and for 3 years he was clearly just a #2.  In his 4 other years, he got injured once and 3 times was a #1A type WR.  He was fast (4.45 forty), but not world breaking fast... his hands were very good... his size was nothing special... and he was a strong route runner who consistently performed at a high level after his first few years into the league, but I don't think Reggie did anything to really change the way the WR position was looked at.

 

Megatron, at 6'5" 237 lbs. was massive for a WR.  He ran a 4.35 forty which is elite speed.  He had a 45 inch vertical which is insane (compare it to Reggie's 36 inch vertical).  He was built like a TE, but nearly as athletic as Randy Moss (and also an inch taller and 30 pounds larger).  He became the Lions true #1 WR in his second year (not surprising given the lack of talent, but at the same time he was the focal point of the Lions' O, whereas Reggie almost always had very strong talent around him either at WR or TE, and not uncommon for him to have a solid running game and great QB to boot).  He got hurt early in his career, but with Megatron changed the way the WR position was played - before him, Moss was a tall/skinny WR who was very athletic and changed the position in terms of being able to crush teams with deep balls... Megatron came in and was like a TE who could do what Moss could.  Teams undoubtedly had him as their focal point of defensive game plans, and even with little talent around him he still dominated (when he was healthy).  

 

I could see the argument for either one of them going in this year.  I would have preferred Reggie over CJ and due to the relative shortness of his career, I wasn't sure he deserved to be first-ballot... that said, Reggie is like the average Joe WR (6'0", 200 lbs, mid 4.4 forties... just like  a bunch of D1 WRs coming into the draft every year) who stayed healthy for the vast majority of his career, who was on a very strong team for the vast majority of his career, with very good QB play his entire career except 1 year, and who was very good at his job.  Megatron revolutionized the position with his combination of size/speed/athleticism/etc. and put up perhaps the most impressive WR season in NFL history on a team where, aside from Stafford, there was almost zero solid talent around him in DET (the 2012 season when CJ set the NFL receiving yards record at 1,964 with 122 receptions... when he was the primary focus of opponents' game plans, he couldn't be stopped).  

 

Before Megatron, nobody saw such a freak at the WR position (maybe Moss, but Moss was 30 pounds lighter)... and since then, the desire for bigger and more athletic WRs continues to grow among scouts, GMs and coaches.  Reggie had a heckuva a career,  but there were average guys before, during and after him who also excelled at their jobs.  In a nutshell, that's why I think Megatron changed the WR position moreso than Reggie.  

 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Reggie was 6'0" 200 lbs when he played here.  Average sized guy.  He ran very good routes, had very good hands, and was a very good teammate.  The only game I ever remember where Reggie was a 'game wrecker' was the GB game after Pagano got diagnosed with cancer.  Otherwise, he was a very good/great WR but was consistent more so than a guy who  put enormous fear into another team, or changed another team's entire game plan just for him.  Reggie as a rookie had the 6th most receptions on the Colts (behind Marvin, Pollard, Dilger, Terrence WIlkins and Rhodes).  In year 2, he was behind Marvin and Edge (but way behind) and barely above Qadry Ismail and Pollard in terms of receptions.  In years 3 and 4, he became a true #2 WR.  In years 5-6, he became a #1A type of WR.  In year 7 (the year Marvin got hurt), he stepped up like a true #1 WR and eclipsed 100 receptions for the first time in his career.  In year 8, it was kind of a 3 headed passing monster with Wayne, Clark and Marv and year 9 (when Marv retired) Wayne and Clark were both 100 reception, 1000+ yard guys.  In year 10, he was the main guy again like he was in year 7.  In year 11, he and Garcon were basically 1A and 1B.  In year 12, he was Luck's main guy... and then year 13 he got hurt and year 14 he was a step slower than he had been and was the #2 WR to TY..

 

In short, Reggie was a great player... but really for only 3 of his 14 years was he hands down the primary receiving weapon on offense, though WR-wise (i.e., not counting Clark as a TE), he was the #1 WR for 5 years.  In his first 2 years, he wasn't even a clear cut #2 WR, and for 3 years he was clearly just a #2.  In his 4 other years, he got injured once and 3 times was a #1A type WR.  He was fast (4.45 forty), but not world breaking fast... his hands were very good... his size was nothing special... and he was a strong route runner who consistently performed at a high level after his first few years into the league, but I don't think Reggie did anything to really change the way the WR position was looked at.

 

Megatron, at 6'5" 237 lbs. was massive for a WR.  He ran a 4.35 forty which is elite speed.  He had a 45 inch vertical which is insane (compare it to Reggie's 36 inch vertical).  He was built like a TE, but nearly as athletic as Randy Moss (and also an inch taller and 30 pounds larger).  He became the Lions true #1 WR in his second year (not surprising given the lack of talent, but at the same time he was the focal point of the Lions' O, whereas Reggie almost always had very strong talent around him either at WR or TE, and not uncommon for him to have a solid running game and great QB to boot).  He got hurt early in his career, but with Megatron changed the way the WR position was played - before him, Moss was a tall/skinny WR who was very athletic and changed the position in terms of being able to crush teams with deep balls... Megatron came in and was like a TE who could do what Moss could.  Teams undoubtedly had him as their focal point of defensive game plans, and even with little talent around him he still dominated (when he was healthy).  

 

I could see the argument for either one of them going in this year.  I would have preferred Reggie over CJ and due to the relative shortness of his career, I wasn't sure he deserved to be first-ballot... that said, Reggie is like the average Joe WR (6'0", 200 lbs, mid 4.4 forties... just like  a bunch of D1 WRs coming into the draft every year) who stayed healthy for the vast majority of his career, who was on a very strong team for the vast majority of his career, with very good QB play his entire career except 1 year, and who was very good at his job.  Megatron revolutionized the position with his combination of size/speed/athleticism/etc. and put up perhaps the most impressive WR season in NFL history on a team where, aside from Stafford, there was almost zero solid talent around him in DET (the 2012 season when CJ set the NFL receiving yards record at 1,964 with 122 receptions... when he was the primary focus of opponents' game plans, he couldn't be stopped).  

 

Before Megatron, nobody saw such a freak at the WR position (maybe Moss, but Moss was 30 pounds lighter)... and since then, the desire for bigger and more athletic WRs continues to grow among scouts, GMs and coaches.  Reggie had a heckuva a career,  but there were average guys before, during and after him who also excelled at their jobs.  In a nutshell, that's why I think Megatron changed the WR position moreso than Reggie.  

 

U make to much sense.  Lol. 

[Narcosys]

4 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Reggie was 6'0" 200 lbs when he played here.  Average sized guy.  He ran very good routes, had very good hands, and was a very good teammate.  The only game I ever remember where Reggie was a 'game wrecker' was the GB game after Pagano got diagnosed with cancer.  Otherwise, he was a very good/great WR but was consistent more so than a guy who  put enormous fear into another team, or changed another team's entire game plan just for him.  Reggie as a rookie had the 6th most receptions on the Colts (behind Marvin, Pollard, Dilger, Terrence WIlkins and Rhodes).  In year 2, he was behind Marvin and Edge (but way behind) and barely above Qadry Ismail and Pollard in terms of receptions.  In years 3 and 4, he became a true #2 WR.  In years 5-6, he became a #1A type of WR.  In year 7 (the year Marvin got hurt), he stepped up like a true #1 WR and eclipsed 100 receptions for the first time in his career.  In year 8, it was kind of a 3 headed passing monster with Wayne, Clark and Marv and year 9 (when Marv retired) Wayne and Clark were both 100 reception, 1000+ yard guys.  In year 10, he was the main guy again like he was in year 7.  In year 11, he and Garcon were basically 1A and 1B.  In year 12, he was Luck's main guy... and then year 13 he got hurt and year 14 he was a step slower than he had been and was the #2 WR to TY..

 

In short, Reggie was a great player... but really for only 3 of his 14 years was he hands down the primary receiving weapon on offense, though WR-wise (i.e., not counting Clark as a TE), he was the #1 WR for 5 years.  In his first 2 years, he wasn't even a clear cut #2 WR, and for 3 years he was clearly just a #2.  In his 4 other years, he got injured once and 3 times was a #1A type WR.  He was fast (4.45 forty), but not world breaking fast... his hands were very good... his size was nothing special... and he was a strong route runner who consistently performed at a high level after his first few years into the league, but I don't think Reggie did anything to really change the way the WR position was looked at.

 

Megatron, at 6'5" 237 lbs. was massive for a WR.  He ran a 4.35 forty which is elite speed.  He had a 45 inch vertical which is insane (compare it to Reggie's 36 inch vertical).  He was built like a TE, but nearly as athletic as Randy Moss (and also an inch taller and 30 pounds larger).  He became the Lions true #1 WR in his second year (not surprising given the lack of talent, but at the same time he was the focal point of the Lions' O, whereas Reggie almost always had very strong talent around him either at WR or TE, and not uncommon for him to have a solid running game and great QB to boot).  He got hurt early in his career, but with Megatron changed the way the WR position was played - before him, Moss was a tall/skinny WR who was very athletic and changed the position in terms of being able to crush teams with deep balls... Megatron came in and was like a TE who could do what Moss could.  Teams undoubtedly had him as their focal point of defensive game plans, and even with little talent around him he still dominated (when he was healthy).  

 

I could see the argument for either one of them going in this year.  I would have preferred Reggie over CJ and due to the relative shortness of his career, I wasn't sure he deserved to be first-ballot... that said, Reggie is like the average Joe WR (6'0", 200 lbs, mid 4.4 forties... just like  a bunch of D1 WRs coming into the draft every year) who stayed healthy for the vast majority of his career, who was on a very strong team for the vast majority of his career, with very good QB play his entire career except 1 year, and who was very good at his job.  Megatron revolutionized the position with his combination of size/speed/athleticism/etc. and put up perhaps the most impressive WR season in NFL history on a team where, aside from Stafford, there was almost zero solid talent around him in DET (the 2012 season when CJ set the NFL receiving yards record at 1,964 with 122 receptions... when he was the primary focus of opponents' game plans, he couldn't be stopped).  

 

Before Megatron, nobody saw such a freak at the WR position (maybe Moss, but Moss was 30 pounds lighter)... and since then, the desire for bigger and more athletic WRs continues to grow among scouts, GMs and coaches.  Reggie had a heckuva a career,  but there were average guys before, during and after him who also excelled at their jobs.  In a nutshell, that's why I think Megatron changed the WR position moreso than Reggie.  

 

Nice post. 

 

You still didn't explain how the game is played has changed because of CJ.

 

Teams have always wanted fast and tall WRs. But they don't come around that often. 

[Four2itus]

Here's a good question.......if you could have either WR right now, for the careers that they had in totality, which would you take?

[jvan1973]

22 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Nice post. 

 

You still didn't explain how the game is played has changed because of CJ.

 

Teams have always wanted fast and tall WRs. But they don't come around that often. 

He could catch the ball with his feet and run on his hands.     Revolutionary really

2 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Here's a good question.......if you could have either WR right now, for the careers that they had in totality, which would you take?

Reggie.   Easy

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Four2itus said:

Here's a good question.......if you could have either WR right now, for the careers that they had in totality, which would you take?

I would take Reggie's career over Megatron's but that would be like asking this, what career would you rather have Emmitt Smith's or Barry Sanders? Emmitt easily but is he better than Barry?

[Four2itus]

17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would take Reggie's career over Megatron's but that would be like asking this, what career would you rather have Emmitt Smith's or Barry Sanders? Emmitt easily but is he better than Barry?

But that is where it gets confusing. There are safeties in the Hall that were not better than Bob Sanders. 

[CurBeatElite]

18 hours ago, Narcosys said:

Nice post. 

 

You still didn't explain how the game is played has changed because of CJ.

 

Teams have always wanted fast and tall WRs. But they don't come around that often. 

 

The league has never seen anyone like Calvin Johnson.  That's why he was called Megatron - like a super human/robot.  Randy Moss is the only guy really close (but again, Moss lacked the bulk and the strength of Megatron).

 

CJ is that WR every GM/Coach/Owner dreams of, and a guy like him hadn't been seen before in the NFL and it is unknown if we'll see anything like him again.  The direct quote you asked me to explain was when I said CJ "definitely changed the way the game (at least the position of WR) was played more than Reggie."  Guys like Reggie have always been around, and will always be around... Reggie had a HOF QB, a HOF WR and a HOF RB alongside him when he stepped into the league and Reggie became a tireless worker, a very good route runner and had very good hands... most importantly, he stayed healthy enough to enjoy a long career.

 

The things Megatron did, especially from 2011-2013 were almost unbelievable.  And he did it with little talent around him.  Stafford is a good QB, but definitely not Peyton.  When you say "teams have always wanted fast and tall WRs, but they don't come around that often" you're right.... Megatron is a once in a lifetime player and teams saw what he could do, he set a benchmark for what GMs want -- they just may never get it again because Megatron was almost unreal.

 

18 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Here's a good question.......if you could have either WR right now, for the careers that they had in totality, which would you take?

 

Hard question actually.  If Megatron was on a different team, maybe he would have stuck around longer - similar to Barry Sanders.  His injuries hurt him, but if we was winning championships, would he continue playing through them?  I  don't know - I mean look at Gronk - guy has a similar injury history to Megatron, but he comes out of retirement to play with a team with an obvious shot at a title.

 

Thing is, GMs don't have the opportunity to look 14 years into the future.  If I'm Ballard and Irsay says "You've been here for 5 years, you have 2 more to win a SB or you're out", I'm picking Megatron.  If I had a crystal ball and could see 14 years into the future, the easy choice would be Wayne because you know he'd have 12 healthy seasons, an injured season and than an OK bounce back year... but if I had Peyton as QB, I think Megatron gives me the ability to win more championships in the first 8-9 years, and could maybe pull him to keep playing if he already had a few rings on his fingers.

 

18 hours ago, Four2itus said:

But that is where it gets confusing. There are safeties in the Hall that were not better than Bob Sanders. 

 

Megatron is a 6x probowler, 3x first team all-pro, 1x 2nd team all pro and on the All-Decade team of the 2010s.  Bob was 1x defensive player of year, 2x first-team all pro and 2x probowler.  In his 8 years in the league, here are the  number of games he played by season (his all pro years in bold): 6, 14, 4, 15, 6, 2, 1, 2.

 

Longevity comes into play when looking at HOF criteria.  Even though Megatron didn't have the longest career, in his 9 seasons he had 4 full 16 game seasons, one 13 game season, two 14 and 15 game seasons.  I can see what you're saying.. but it's not really close, Bob never played 16 games, only had 2 seasons with more than 10 games played, and the remainder of his career consisted of two seasons with 6 games played, one with 4, two with 2, and one with 1.  

[Four2itus]

...

[CurBeatElite]

1 minute ago, Four2itus said:

Which is why I think Reggie should go in 1st ballot rather than him. I would take RW every time, regardless of the crystal ball of the future. 

 

You quoted Bob Sanders' number of games played... not CJ's.

 

Reggie is not a first-ballot HOFer, he wasn't even the #1 WR on his team the vast majority of his career.  The guy who was, and who has better career numbers than Reggie (Marv), wasn't even first ballot.

 

As I said earlier, I was hoping the nod this year would go to Reggie mainly due to CJ's shorter career, but CJ was a revolutionary type of WR and played in the vast majority of games over his 9 year career.