Another Luck/griffin Review...

[haughvillian]

http://www.nj.com/times-sports/index.ssf/2012/03/looking_at_qbs_for_the_draft_l.html

FYI

[FightLikeSin]

yup. It really is a no-brainer. RG3 wasn't in anyone's conversation until this year, has a history of concussions and an ACL injury, and takes off running if his first read isn't open. He's not ideal for the Colts.

[Deano1818]

I think RGIII is the real deal....... But....... Luck will be playing in some Super Bowls

[Flash7]

RGIII is very accurate and has a very strong arm. He has a chance to be something really special. His college game films show that he hasn't relied much on having to read a defense. The offense that he ran in college was a spread offense with multiple receivers in space. He very frequently know who his "go-to" receiver was on any given play and would target that receiver. The problem with RGIII's gme is that if that receiver wasn't open, he would take off and run, rather than go through his progressions. He can't do this in the NFL regularly because the more he runs, the more hits he will take. He will really have to focus on being a pocket passer. If he can master this, then he can be really scary. Of course, this is a big "if."

Luck has already shown that he can go through his progressions and can read a defense. This has been proven by his ability to call plays at the line, based on the defensive coverage that he sees.

[fvantagio]

yup. It really is a no-brainer. RG3 wasn't in anyone's conversation until this year, has a history of concussions and an ACL injury, and takes off running if his first read isn't open. He's not ideal for the Colts.

Such a misinformed post. First off RG3 is not a one year wonder. He was a freshman all american for the big 12. Tore his ACL the following year. Rehabbed that while learning to play traditional QB. Came back had an excellent year at QB just one year removed from the ACL tear. Then came back this year and won the heisman. Also i have seen him go through progressions, not to the extent that Luck has but RG3 is not like a VY. Plus what are coaches for? RG3 is the hardest worker in the draft and there is no reason to believe that he will struggle with adapting to a pro style offense.Sure he runs when he can, but when you run a 4.4 and have guys running 5.0, makes sense doesnt it? He is equally dangerous in the pass game as well as run, which for some reason is a bad thing? And finally how do we know whats ideal for the Colts? They dont have an identity anymore, this is not Mannings offense.

I like Luck and will cheer for him since he will be the Colts next QB. But all this doubting on RG3 will make a lot of people on this forum, as well as the media look like fools. RG3 is a absolute stud and will excel in this league. Sadly, perhaps more so then Luck.

[FightLikeSin]

Such a misinformed post. First off RG3 is not a one year wonder. He was a freshman all american for the big 12. Tore his ACL the following year. Rehabbed that while learning to play traditional QB. Came back had an excellent year at QB just one year removed from the ACL tear. Then came back this year and won the heisman. Also i have seen him go through progressions, not to the extent that Luck has but RG3 is not like a VY. Plus what are coaches for? RG3 is the hardest worker in the draft and there is no reason to believe that he will struggle with adapting to a pro style offense.Sure he runs when he can, but when you run a 4.4 and have guys running 5.0, makes sense doesnt it? He is equally dangerous in the pass game as well as run, which for some reason is a bad thing? And finally how do we know whats ideal for the Colts? They dont have an identity anymore, this is not Mannings offense.

I like Luck and will cheer for him since he will be the Colts next QB. But all this doubting on RG3 will make a lot of people on this forum, as well as the media look like fools. RG3 is a absolute stud and will excel in this league. Sadly, perhaps more so then Luck.

I'll believe it when I see it. That's all i'm saying. I defer to the scouts who do this as a profession for their insight and I can see what they are talking about when they refer to him as not being able to read the D or running after he can't get the ball to his first read in his progression. It's not going to fly. Not that he can't be coached, but why spend the time when you've got someone who has been running a pro style offense for the last 3 years with zero help at WR? I'm not arguing that RG3 won't be good...eventually. I'm just saying there is no reason I can find that would suggest the Colts would rather take RG3 over Luck.

[GrizzColt]

Cam and Luck are the future of the league. They are the hybrid QBs, big, smart, strong, fast......while RG3 has some of that but he's just too small to absorb the hits.

[fvantagio]

Cam and Luck are the future of the league. They are the hybrid QBs, big, smart, strong, fast......while RG3 has some of that but he's just too small to absorb the hits.

...You are aware he is the size of Aaron Rodgers right?

[Chris_21]

Not sure where people got the idea RG3 was frail. Like Fvantagio just mentioned, he is the same size as Rodgers.

[Nobody]

...You are aware he is the size of Aaron Rodgers right?

I didn't know that Aaron Rodgers constantly scrambles, or that he has a history of major injuries (concussions? ACL?) Some people just can't take a beating, I think RG3 will be slowed down significantly. And All Freshman Big 12?? Ooooohhh I'm trembling!

[Nobody]

Not sure where people got the idea RG3 was frail. Like Fvantagio just mentioned, he is the same size as Rodgers.

Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garçon, Austin Collie, and Gonzo were all 6'0, and ranged from 195 to about 210 pounds, two had bad injury problems, two didnt. It's not all size.

[fvantagio]

I didn't know that Aaron Rodgers constantly scrambles, or that he has a history of major injuries (concussions? ACL?) Some people just can't take a beating, I think RG3 will be slowed down significantly. And All Freshman Big 12?? Ooooohhh I'm trembling!

Yeah make fun of his freshman campaign and ignore the recent Heisman. He tore his ACL and still runs a 4.41 40. Thats saying something. Not drafting someone because he "might get injured" is possibly one of the dumbest things you can do. Ask the teams that passed on Adrian Peterson. For all you know Luck could blow out his knee first play of pre season, but thats no reason to pass him buy. I saw a highlight of Luck lowering his shoulder into the defender (Cal.). So we shouldnt get him because if he does that in the NFL he will break his collar bone. Hows that for sound logic? It was sarcasm btw.

Fun Fact: The only thing dumber then passing on a guy because he could get injured is passing on a guy because he is 2 inches to short. (ray lewis, MJD, Ray Rice, Drew Brees should I go on?)

[Nobody]

Yeah make fun of his freshman campaign and ignore the recent Heisman. He tore his ACL and still runs a 4.41 40. Thats saying something. Not drafting someone because he "might get injured" is possibly one of the dumbest things you can do. Ask the teams that passed on Adrian Peterson. For all you know Luck could blow out his knee first play of pre season, but thats no reason to pass him buy. I saw a highlight of Luck lowering his shoulder into the defender (Cal.). So we shouldnt get him because if he does that in the NFL he will break his collar bone. Hows that for sound logic? It was sarcasm btw.

Fun Fact: The only thing dumber then passing on a guy because he could get injured is passing on a guy because he is 2 inches to short. (ray lewis, MJD, Ray Rice, Drew Brees should I go on?)

"Possibility of maybe getting injured" Is different than "tendency to get injured" Luck is fast, and can run when he sees green, and can choose times where he won't get hit, but RG3, at least at first, will run when panicked. I for one am done with injury prone players. (not saying he definitely is injury prone, but why not take a guy who's better, and has NO history of injuries?! Oh AND is as athletic as Cam Newton.

[Chris_21]

It is a moot point because Irsay wants Luck regardless of what Grigson & Pagano want. (not saying they want RG3 but we really don't know).

[Malakai432]

Such a misinformed post. First off RG3 is not a one year wonder. He was a freshman all american for the big 12. Tore his ACL the following year. Rehabbed that while learning to play traditional QB. Came back had an excellent year at QB just one year removed from the ACL tear. Then came back this year and won the heisman. Also i have seen him go through progressions, not to the extent that Luck has but RG3 is not like a VY. Plus what are coaches for? RG3 is the hardest worker in the draft and there is no reason to believe that he will struggle with adapting to a pro style offense.Sure he runs when he can, but when you run a 4.4 and have guys running 5.0, makes sense doesnt it? He is equally dangerous in the pass game as well as run, which for some reason is a bad thing? And finally how do we know whats ideal for the Colts? They dont have an identity anymore, this is not Mannings offense.

I like Luck and will cheer for him since he will be the Colts next QB. But all this doubting on RG3 will make a lot of people on this forum, as well as the media look like fools. RG3 is a absolute stud and will excel in this league. Sadly, perhaps more so then Luck.

Yes and Andrew Luck is also an absolute stud who will excel in this league. Fortunately, perhaps more so than Griffin.

[fvantagio]

Yes and Andrew Luck is also an absolute stud who will excel in this league. Fortunately, perhaps more so than Griffin.

I hope so. Im more of a Luck fan since he will be a Colt. Just seems like Luck fans give the guy no credit and automatically throw him in the class with Vick and Young.

[Malakai432]

I hope so. Im more of a Luck fan since he will be a Colt. Just seems like Luck fans give the guy no credit and automatically throw him in the class with Vick and Young.

Yeah I do agree with that, a lot of people seem to. I still think the guy is going to be a very good QB. I think he will be very explosive and exciting to watch. Possibly kind of like Warren Moon or Cunningham crossed with Vick. Many people do have concerns about him being injured though which is valid. He does pass often but the guy has also ran for 2,200 + yards and that includes a season where he missed 9 games. He's going to need to limit his running a bit in the NFL. He has 179 rush attempts last year which is alot for college, let alone a 16 game season in the NFL. Compare that sole statistic with Vick who only had 76 attempts and still played injured and actually missed 3 games. I have confidence he will tone it down though.

[mvbighead]

"Possibility of maybe getting injured" Is different than "tendency to get injured" Luck is fast, and can run when he sees green, and can choose times where he won't get hit, but RG3, at least at first, will run when panicked. I for one am done with injury prone players. (not saying he definitely is injury prone, but why not take a guy who's better, and has NO history of injuries?! Oh AND is as athletic as Cam Newton.

This. The best ability in the NFL is availability. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you're wearing street clothes to the game, you aren't helping the team.

For me, as much as RG3 is an intriguing prospect, I have to agree with the general consensus out there. This is not a 1a / 1b conversation. It's a 1 and a solid #2.

[Mitch]

Please tell me we will be not be drafting RG3...That would be a terrible mistake...He's a good player and I think will be very exciting to watch, but I'd rather that be with the skins, not the Colts. Please Grigs/Irsay PICK LUCK

[GrizzColt]

Rodgers runs to get in a better position to throw the ball. If RG3 does that, he should be great. Big Ben does the same thing. Vick, however, tends to run for yardage when in trouble. He's getting better working with Reid and here's hoping that Shanahan does the same for RG3.

[UndecidedFrog]

Rodgers runs to get in a better position to throw the ball. If RG3 does that, he should be great. Big Ben does the same thing. Vick, however, tends to run for yardage when in trouble. He's getting better working with Reid and here's hoping that Shanahan does the same for RG3.

2011 rushing attempts:

Luck at Stanford: 47

RG3 at Baylor 179

2010 rushing attempts:

Luck at Stanford: 55

RG3 at Baylor: 149

1997 rushing attempts:

Peyton Manning at Tennessee: 49

1982 rushing attempts:

John Elway at Stanford: 59

I cannot see how a college QB that attempts more than 100 rushes a season can be called a pocket passer, or even a pass first QB.

[Flash7]

2011 rushing attempts:

Luck at Stanford: 47

RG3 at Baylor 179

2010 rushing attempts:

Luck at Stanford: 55

RG3 at Baylor: 149

1997 rushing attempts:

Peyton Manning at Tennessee: 49

1982 rushing attempts:

John Elway at Stanford: 59

I cannot see how a college QB that attempts more than 100 rushes a season can be called a pocket passer, or even a pass first QB.

It's interesting the RGIII's rushing stats went up from 149 in 2010 to 179 in 2011. It shows that he relied more on his running ability, or at least the team thought that having him run more would be a benefit. I would have liked to see his rushing attempts decrease as a sign that he was becoming more of a pocket passer.

[Chris_21]

Good point Flash.

I wouldn't worry Colt fans. I believe the only way you do not end up with Luck is if he pulls an Eli. I do not believe he is that type of individual but we shall see.

[Jay305]

Im glad the Colts are getting Luck they dont deserve RG3

[fvantagio]

I cannot see how a college QB that attempts more than 100 rushes a season can be called a pocket passer, or even a pass first QB.

because your to busy looking at the numbers instead of the film.

[fvantagio]

It's interesting the RGIII's rushing stats went up from 149 in 2010 to 179 in 2011. It shows that he relied more on his running ability, or at least the team thought that having him run more would be a benefit. I would have liked to see his rushing attempts decrease as a sign that he was becoming more of a pocket passer.

I think it was more of being 2 years removed from his ACL injury and being faster and more explosive then he was the previous year. When you watch him play, he is unquestionably a pocket passer. Everyone looks at the numbers and jumps to a conclusion. Sure he ran 180 times this year but how many of them where escaping a sack and turning it into a first? There are no stats for that. Or a drive saving first down? Or what if a team is defending the pass and giving RG3 the run? Should he continue to pass the ball putting his team at risk for a INT or should he take what the D give him? He runs a 4.4, which means running is a big part of his game, which it should be. But it is not his only game. Thats the difference, and thats what most people fail to notice.

[Bleedin Blue]

I don't think many people disagree that RGIII is going to be a good to great quarterback. The question you have to ask is who is the most NFL-ready QB at the time of the draft. I don't see how you can come away thinking that Robert is more NFL ready than Andrew.

[esmort]

Im glad the Colts are getting Luck they dont deserve RG3

I agree they do not deserve to get stuck with the 2nd(or worse) best QB in the draft when they have the #1 pick!

[Chris_21]

I don't think many people disagree that RGIII is going to be a good to great quarterback. The question you have to ask is who is the most NFL-ready QB at the time of the draft. I don't see how you can come away thinking that Robert is more NFL ready than Andrew.

But for a team that is in full rebuild mode should the QB be taken more NFL ready or who the team projects to be better in the long run? Just posing the question. Not saying one will be better than the other for the long term.

[UndecidedFrog]

But for a team that is in full rebuild mode should the QB be taken more NFL ready or who the team projects to be better in the long run? Just posing the question. Not saying one will be better than the other for the long term.

In this case, the more NFL ready QB now, and the one that is projected to be better in the long run is the same, Andrew Luck.

[noah larson]

yup. It really is a no-brainer. RG3 wasn't in anyone's conversation until this year, has a history of concussions and an ACL injury, and takes off running if his first read isn't open. He's not ideal for the Colts.

If RG3 can complete 72% of his passes without going through his progressions and locking on to one reciever, then sign me up for him!! Imagine what his completion percentage would be if he actually learned how to do that!! lol

[FightLikeSin]

If RG3 can complete 72% of his passes without going through his progressions and locking on to one reciever, then sign me up for him!! Imagine what his completion percentage would be if he actually learned how to do that!! lol

He's a spread QB. Don't have time to wait on him to develop into what Andrew Luck was doing 2 years ago. When you've got Kendall Wright, and can just chuck it down the field against the scary Big 12 defenses...that makes a big difference in your stats. He won't have those luxuries in the NFL. Just like Luck will have to learn how to play behind a less awesome O-line. But I think Luck will be more successful. He's a great fit for the Colts.

[FireJimCaldwell]

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/source/espn3/id/425779/size/condensed/#

RG III Pro day live at 12:00 Eastern

[Flash7]

If RG3 can complete 72% of his passes without going through his progressions and locking on to one reciever, then sign me up for him!! Imagine what his completion percentage would be if he actually learned how to do that!! lol

Colt Brennan -70.4% completion percentage, Graham Harrell- 71% completion percentage, Case Keenum- 72% completion percentage, RGIII 72% completion percentage.

What do they all have in common? They all played in the spread system. This system is designed to spread out the defense so that speedy receivers have 1-on-1 coverage. A good receiver will always have an advantage over a defender in 1on-1 coverage. That's why RGIII does not have to go through his progressions that often. He kows who the go-to receiver is on every play, and with the spread system, that receiver is usually open. Therefor, he hasn't had to rely on reading a coverage. You would have to ask yourself logically, why are spread college QB's devalued in the NFL? It's because the system works well in college and creates a mirage that a QB is better than they actually are.

[Marcio James]

NFLDraftCountdown about Luck:

http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/QB/Andrew-Luck.php

Strengths:

• Prototypical height and bulk with large hands

• Above average athleticism and very good speed

• More than enough arm strength to make all throws

• Accurate with great touch, timing and anticipation

• Technically sound w/ refined mechanics and footwork

• Surprisingly mobile and can make plays with feet

• Used to working under center in a pro style system

• Able to read coverages and go through progressions

• Nice pocket presence and is cool, calm and collected

• Is very tough, both physically as well as mentally

• Respected leader who teammates will rally around

• Extremely intelligent with a very high football IQ

• Competitive and hard working with a drive to excel

• Mature with a terrific pedigree and NFL bloodlines

• A lot of experience against top quality competition

Weaknesses:

• Reckless with body and must learn to slide more

• Tendency to put too much air under passes at times

• Can be overly confident and will force some throws

• Does not always throw a picture perfect deep ball

• Did not face many adverse circumstances in college

Injury History:

• Broken finger on throwing hand required surgery in 2009

Notes:

A three-year starter and team captain for the Cardinal --- Father, Oliver, backed up Warren Moon with Houston Oilers in the early-1980's and is now the Athletic Director at West Virginia University --- Heisman Trophy Runner-Up in 2010 and 2011 --- Won the Maxwell Award as Player of the Year, Walter Camp Player of the Year Award and Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award in 2011 --- Named the Pac-10/12 Offensive Player of the Year in 2010 and 2011 --- Named 1st Team All-Pac-10/12 in 2010 and 2011 --- Member of Pac-10/12 All-Academic Team in 2009, 2010 and 2011 --- Was valedictorian of high school class and on pace to graduate with a degree in architectural design --- One of the most prolific passers in Stanford history despite only playing three seasons and name is plastered all over school record books --- Spent three years under the tutelage of quarterback guru Jim Harbaugh --- Would have been the #1 overall pick in the 2011 NFL Draft but opted to return to college --- Extraordinarily polished with very few holes in his game and is ready to step in and play at a high level immediately --- A true franchise signal caller with all the physical tools you look for as well as elite intangibles and possesses Hall of Fame potential --- TheLeBron James of the NFL Draft is as close to a sure thing as it gets and appears destined to take a place among leagues brightest stars --- Is widely considered to be the best quarterback prospect to come along since Peyton Manning in 1998 or perhaps even John Elway in 1983.

NFL Player Comparison: Peyton Manning

[noah larson]

He's a spread QB. Don't have time to wait on him to develop into what Andrew Luck was doing 2 years ago. When you've got Kendall Wright, and can just chuck it down the field against the scary Big 12 defenses...that makes a big difference in your stats. He won't have those luxuries in the NFL. Just like Luck will have to learn how to play behind a less awesome O-line. But I think Luck will be more successful. He's a great fit for the Colts.

I was kinda joking with you guys but the truth always seems to be some where in the middle of what all the Luck homers and RG3 homers think. Trying to make it sound like RG3 can't go through progessions is rediculous but of course he can still improve on it like every other QB in college football.

[FightLikeSin]

I was kinda joking with you guys but the truth always seems to be some where in the middle of what all the Luck homers and RG3 homers think. Trying to make it sound like RG3 can't go through progessions is rediculous but of course he can still improve on it like every other QB in college football.

I calls it like I see it. Sorry. I just don't see an NFL QB when I look at RG3. He's timid in the pocket and impatient. Runs too often.

[noah larson]

I calls it like I see it. Sorry. I just don't see an NFL QB when I look at RG3. He's timid in the pocket and impatient. Runs too often.

You probably also thought that Cam Newton had no chance at being a starting QB in the NFL.

[FightLikeSin]

You probably also thought that Cam Newton had no chance at being a starting QB in the NFL.

Actually I was a big fan of Cam. That guy is huge. He didn't pass as much as RG3, didn't really have as many weapons but he was accurate and he at least had the size to take off and run and not get killed. I guarantee he won't be running as much in the future. You can only take hits like that so often no matter how big you are. The Panthers would do well to protect their investment and have him sit in the pocket more often.

[Chris_21]

In this case, the more NFL ready QB now, and the one that is projected to be better in the long run is the same, Andrew Luck.

Ready now. Yes. Projected to be better? Not sure about that. Before you say "analysts" say he is, you might want to research that first. Several including those with former ties to the Colts disagree.

I say it is 60/40 pro Luck at this point.