Should we leave Braden Smith at right tackle?

[chad72]

18 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

But I do like have a GM that has an idea on where he wants the team to be and a roadmap on how to get them there... it's something the Colts have not had since Bill Polian.

 

I do think this speaks volumes about the HC/other coaches and the GM being on the same page as well. Whether Pagano and his coaches could not get across the attributes they exactly wanted to Grigson, or whether Grigson was not able to translate those to players that worked well for their system, the bottom line was that the Pagano/Grigson combination did not work well enough for us over the years.

 

Bill Polian and Marv Levy, Bill Polian and Dungy - the common theme was the coaches were able to convey clearly what they wanted in their players and Bill was able to translate those to players that "fit" their culture and systems, even if they fit their system better than they did for other teams. In other words, their dynamics with Bill Polian worked great, that seems to the common underlying theme - the HC/GM dynamics of communication, IMO.

[Hoose]

Ballard is doing a solid job. I assume we can all acknowledge that. This draft class looks terrific so far.... and his in season FA gets are looking great as well. The future looks and feels bright. That’s all you can ask at this point of a major rebuild. Next draft: defense baby. And a WR2. 

[Coffeedrinker]

5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I do think this speaks volumes about the HC/other coaches and the GM being on the same page as well. Whether Pagano and his coaches could not get across the attributes they exactly wanted to Grigson, or whether Grigson was not able to translate those to players that worked well for their system, the bottom line was that the Pagano/Grigson combination did not work well enough for us over the years.

 

Bill Polian and Marv Levy, Bill Polian and Dungy - the common theme was the coaches were able to convey clearly what they wanted in their players and Bill was able to translate those to players that "fit" their culture and systems, even if they fit their system better than they did for other teams. In other words, their dynamics with Bill Polian worked great, that seems to the common underlying theme - the HC/GM dynamics of communication, IMO.

It's one of the things I don't think a lot of fans really understand.  I think a lot of people (obviously the ones that post on a forum are typically more knowledgeable than the more casual fan) think that if the team needs a CB, the GM looks for the best CB.  But what really happens (or at least should happen) is long before the teams needs a CB the GM and coaches have met and the GM knows that for the CB position the coach thinks agility is the most important and then field awareness then acceleration and then height, arm length then speed then.... 

 

Then they should have sat down in the film room and watched players and have the coaches say, now this an example of great agility, acceleration, etc.  Then the scouts.... scouta nd assign a grade to each of those catagories, then the GM takes the grades assigns the weight to each grade (again based on coaches priority) and then ranks the players (whether draft or veterans) based on that criteria.

 

So when the coach comes to him and says, "I need a CB" the GM can pull out the list and say, here is who I have and then they start contacting those that are available.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I will give you this Dougdew, you are the king of changing your argument when you don't get the answers you want.  I know you will claim you don't do that and perhaps you really don't think you do, IDK.  But it is pretty comical

 

To the bold.  You really have no idea if that is the case.  You don't know if anyone would have grabbed him if the Colts did not claim him off of waivers.  It's speculation on your part.  It very well could have happened the Colts would have signed him as a free agent the next day but they didn't wait for it.

 

To the underline.  Glow wasn't the immediate starter.  The Colts had a veteran 10 year starter ahead of him.  It's evidence of superior talent because a good GM finds out from his coaches what attributes are important and finds players with those attributes and if he does a good job finding those players and if the positional coach is good at knowing what attributes are important for the style he was to do then you get a guy like Glow who didn't fit with another organization but fits well with your organization.  It's also why you release a guy like Blythe and he is able to go to another team and do well.  People like you use the word talent as if all teams mean the same thing when they say talent and that is not the case.  Again Ballard is proving he can find talent for the Colts, a lot of GMs on other teams have proven they can find talents for their teams.  A lot of Gms over the years have proven they cannot find talent for their teams.  After Chros Polian and Ryan Grigson, it's nice having a GM again that can find talent.

 

I'm sure you come back and say, "well what about this .... how does that fit in, does that mean he a genius or not..."  So my answer will be the same... I don't expect the GM to be correct on every decision, nor does he have to be to be a genius GM.  But I do like have a GM that has an idea on where he wants the team to be and a roadmap on how to get them there... it's something the Colts have not had since Bill Polian.

No, I don't change. There must be a blindspot somewhere amongst y'all.

 

The comment was made that Glow was signed....and that it was indicative of a competent judge of oline talent and that it is refreshing.

 

Kelly was drafted in round 1.  Mewhort round 2. Nelson round 1. Smith round 2.

 

Banner round 4.  Who couldn't beat out Good or Clark. 

 

Blythe was cut in favor of Haeg, Clark, Vuj, etc, and is now starting for the Rams.

 

Glow has a body of NFL work that is superior to Haeg, Good, and Vuj, but its assumed he was only on Ballard's radar and nobody else's.

 

He wasn't available to be signed by 31 GMs equally.  He was claimed after only 2 passed.

 

I guess I don't see any refreshing change in oline talent evaluation.

 

 

 

[Coffeedrinker]

21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No, I don't change. There must be a blindspot somewhere amongst y'all.

 

The comment was made that Glow was signed....and that it was indicative of a competent judge of oline talent and that it is refreshing.

 

Kelly was drafted in round 1.  Mewhort round 2. Nelson round 1. Smith round 2.

 

Banner round 4.  Who couldn't beat out Good or Clark. 

 

Blythe was cut in favor of Haeg, Clark, Vuj, etc, and is now starting for the Rams.

 

Glow has a body of NFL work that is superior to Haeg, Good, and Vuj, but its assumed he was only on Ballard's radar and nobody else's.

 

He wasn't available to be signed by 31 GMs equally.  He was claimed after only 2 passed.

 

I guess I don't see any refreshing change in oline talent evaluation.

 

 

 

Nope and you won't when you cherry pick what you want to see.

 

But again, when you look at an entire body of work, you can see Ballard is better than Grigson.

 

Not one single offensive lineman free agent signing that Grigson made worked out for the Colts.  He missed every single time...EVERY TIME.  Thomas, Justice, McGlynn ....

 

And very few of Grigson's draft choice worked out.  Kelly has and Mewhort would have if it wasn't for his body.  And that's hit.

 

Ballard missed on 1 draft choice, Banner and Austin Howard.

 

If you can't see the difference then you don't understand what you are seeing.

[DougDew]

47 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Nope and you won't when you cherry pick what you want to see.

 

But again, when you look at an entire body of work, you can see Ballard is better than Grigson.

 

Not one single offensive lineman free agent signing that Grigson made worked out for the Colts.  He missed every single time...EVERY TIME.  Thomas, Justice, McGlynn ....

 

And very few of Grigson's draft choice worked out.  Kelly has and Mewhort would have if it wasn't for his body.  And that's hit.

 

Ballard missed on 1 draft choice, Banner and Austin Howard.

 

If you can't see the difference then you don't understand what you are seeing.

Oh yeah.  I forgot about Howard.

 

I also remember during the spring after we signed Slauson, that I thought we should try Smith at RT, being a bit tall for a prototype G.  Of course, the know-it-alls here shot me down. The media asked the same question at a presser, and Ballard said.

 

"No, he's a guard.  Smith isn't a tackle.  Hes' a guard".

 

Good thing we have Reich to see otherwise.

 

Still not seeing the refreshing change in OL talent evaluation from the GMs.  Only when you go back to the Bill Tobin days when he signed Kirk Loudermilk and Will Wolford, and drafted Tarik Glenn and Adam Meadows is there much change.  But that was a different era and we've had different cap situations throughout so its tough to go back too far without changing the circumstances.

[DougDew]

This thread has prompted more thinking.  When have the Colts ever devoted either a high pick or lots of FA money to an Olineman where that Olineman wasn't a good player for them (Tony Ugoh)?  

 

Ron Solt, Chris Hinton, Wil Wolford, Kirk Lowdermilk, Tarik Glenn (drafted and re-signed), Adam Meadows, Anthony Costanzo (drafted and re-signed) Gosder Cherilous, Ryan Kelly, Jack Mewhort, Quentin Nelson, Braden Smith.

 

Then there were mid round picks and mid level FA money guys that either were average players,  turned out above average, or turned out worse than average.  Injuries seem to have played a factor here more than other groups.  I can't remember everybody, my apologies. 

 

Above:  Ryan Diem, Steve McKinney, Jake Scott

Average: Dylan Gandy, Satele, Haeg, Winston Justice

Below: Thornton, Holmes, Clark, Banner

 

 

And low investment players who turned out to be hits relative to the low investment

 

Saturday, Joe Reitz, Glowinski (short history).  

 

There are a bunch of low investment guys who never did much.  McGlynn, Herremans, Good, and Howard come to mind.  Not sure how we should think of Blythe.

 

 

[CR91]

I still think we need a to draft a T, however I think with the emerges of Braden Smith at RT, it has helped allow us to go in a different direction atleast for now. Im not sure we'll resign Slauson, but a line of AC Nelson Kelly Haeg Smith can be a line that protects luck for a very long time. Its just unfortunate Mewhort couldn't stay healthly. Imo we can address other needs like CB, WR, DL

[chad72]

20 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Nope and you won't when you cherry pick what you want to see.

 

But again, when you look at an entire body of work, you can see Ballard is better than Grigson.

 

Not one single offensive lineman free agent signing that Grigson made worked out for the Colts.  He missed every single time...EVERY TIME.  Thomas, Justice, McGlynn ....

 

And very few of Grigson's draft choice worked out.  Kelly has and Mewhort would have if it wasn't for his body.  And that's hit.

 

Ballard missed on 1 draft choice, Banner and Austin Howard.

 

If you can't see the difference then you don't understand what you are seeing.

 

Banner, if I remember right, was high on Philbin's board, and it was a lame duck year for all those coaches and I felt that hamstrung Ballard too, making draft picks that coaches wanted, even if it was for 1 year. I can see why new GMs go with new coaches right off the bat so many times. Luck being out made it easier to evaluate the lack of creativity that Pagano's coaches brought to the table, IMO. I do feel that Pagano's supporting cast he brought to the table was his biggest downfall but that is a topic for another discussion. 

 

Eberflus was Josh McDaniels' original choice, just like the OL coach, that the Colts decided to honor and commit to, we will see how much slack he gets if we keep giving up lots of points after another off season of defensive talent acquisition.

[BleedBlu8792]

22 hours ago, CR91 said:

I still think we need a to draft a T, however I think with the emerges of Braden Smith at RT, it has helped allow us to go in a different direction atleast for now. Im not sure we'll resign Slauson, but a line of AC Nelson Kelly Haeg Smith can be a line that protects luck for a very long time. Its just unfortunate Mewhort couldn't stay healthly. Imo we can address other needs like CB, WR, DL

 

Considering how Glowinsky's played, I don't think Haeg finds himself in the starting rotation unless there is an injury. 

[chad72]

All of what we are seeing cements the fact that the fastest way to turn around a franchise, outside a franchise QB, is to get investment going on the O-line. In the current NFL, a top notch D takes you only so far, and it is hard to expect a D to limit opponents to 20 points consistently. 25 may be reasonable but not 20, and thus you need a competent offensive line and offense.

 

Investing in high draft picks on OL is what led the resurgence of the Cowboys, but they forgot to build other aspects of the team, like defense and balance on the offensive side.

[BleedBlu8792]

5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

All of what we are seeing cements the fact that the fastest way to turn around a franchise, outside a franchise QB, is to get investment going on the O-line. In the current NFL, a top notch D takes you only so far, and it is hard to expect a D to limit opponents to 20 points consistently. 25 may be reasonable but not 20, and thus you need a competent offensive line and offense.

 

Investing in high draft picks on OL is what led the resurgence of the Cowboys, but they forgot to build other aspects of the team, like defense and balance on the offensive side.

 

Actually that Cowboys defense is pretty good. They could probably use some corner help, but the rest of that side of the ball is very solid. I think the regression of Dak is what's hurt that team the most, well outside of losing to premier OL players. 

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Actually that Cowboys defense is pretty good. They could probably use some corner help, but the rest of that side of the ball is very solid. I think the regression of Dak is what's hurt that team the most, well outside of losing to premier OL players. 

 

Yep, it took them too much time to build the defensive side of the ball, IMO and they could not strike the right balance at the same time that the offense was humming, that was my point. They did not plan well for the future of the offensive side, you need constant replenishment in this league through the draft. You don't have the luxury of having 4-5 years because the side that was doing good can go bad faster than you think, with free agency being a part of it. Turnaround times should be more like 2-3 years in this league, IMO.

[Creekside]

On 10/29/2018 at 9:17 PM, Superman said:

 

If Haeg, Clark and Good are 6-8 for our OL, we don't have any depth. 

 

 

 

So glad to see you say this.

 

I'm convinced Reich knew he was in trouble with the O-line at the beginning of the season. AC was out, and the coach announced one week before the first regular season game that the right tackle position was still up for grabs. He knew he had inadequate talent especially at the tackle positions. But instead of trying to force a square peg into a round hole, he played the hand he was dealt and threw short passes 60 times and didn't even try to run much.

 

That all changed when A/C, Glowinski, and Smith replaced Haeg, Clark, Slauson, and Good.

 

Reich is now able to run the offense he wants to run.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lollygagger8]

Continuity is finally happening with these guys and it's making a huge difference. You have to leave this combo the way it is for as long as you can. 

 

That said, we need tackle and guard depth fo sho. 

[HectorRoberts]

I’m a huge fan of the if it’s not broke don’t fix it method but I wonder if it would do us any favors to move smith back inside and start Good at RT again. 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, egg said:

 

So glad to see you say this.

 

I'm convinced Reich knew he was in trouble with the O-line at the beginning of the season. AC was out, and the coach announced one week before the first regular season game that the right tackle position was still up for grabs. He knew he had inadequate talent especially at the tackle positions. But instead of trying to force a square peg into a round hole, he played the hand he was dealt and threw short passes 60 times and didn't even try to run much.

 

That all changed when A/C, Glowinski, and Smith replaced Haeg, Clark, Slauson, and Good.

 

Reich is now able to run the offense he wants to run.

 

I agree. Reich did try to run, but it was obvious that he had one hand tied behind his back. Mack was hurt also. I remember one disastrous series against the Texans where Reich called an inside run on 2nd and 1, and we lost three yards. He came back with another run, and we lost three more yards. All of a sudden it's 4th and 7. 

 

Now that AC is back and the right side is settled, or appears to be, we're not throwing it 50 times a week, and Reich is using more of his playbook.

[RollerColt]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I agree. Reich did try to run, but it was obvious that he had one hand tied behind his back. Mack was hurt also. I remember one disastrous series against the Texans where Reich called an inside run on 2nd and 1, and we lost three yards. He came back with another run, and we lost three more yards. All of a sudden it's 4th and 7. 

 

Now that AC is back and the right side is settled, or appears to be, we're not throwing it 50 times a week, and Reich is using more of his playbook.

And, in addition to that, we’re actually scoring on our first drive which in turn keeps us from falling behind and relying on Luck to bail us out. 

 

Offensively, things are definitely clicking.