Under the Radar Signings

[COLTS449]

What about going after stud DE like Short or Fairley? And yes I said Nick Fairley. If you didn't see him this year, he had the best year of his career and will probably get a nice little 4 year deal.

[The Peytonator]

30 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

What about going after stud DE like Short or Fairley? And yes I said Nick Fairley. If you didn't see him this year, he had the best year of his career and will probably get a nice little 4 year deal.

 

 

I've wanted Fairley every offseason for about the last 3 years and Grigson never listened to me. I don't think he'll get a 4 year deal, but I'd like to see him on the Colts. He's one of those weird players that makes plays but doesn't get long term deals; kinda like Terrance Knighton. If the Saints can't keep him I'd love to sign him. Not so much with Short, just because he'll be too expensive. 

[Tmoney]

On 2/16/2017 at 6:53 AM, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Some goofy stuff going on here.
BTW Allen will make UNDER $5M in 2017 and $5M in 2018. Get your ___ together.
 Can`t wait to see what Brandon Williams signs for.

Pffffffft *. Get my stuff together? Dwayne makes 5.9 mil this year and over 8 mil next year!! Get your head out of your * 

[SaturdayAllDay]

7 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

Pffffffft *. Get my stuff together? Dwayne makes 5.9 mil this year and over 8 mil next year!! Get your head out of your * 

You are looking at Cap numbers my friend. DA only makes 4.9Mil this year as 1M of his cap hit is a prorated part of his signing bonus. Also his cap number for 2018 is only 6M (counting his signing bonus hit of 1M) so i dont know where you got over 8.... unless you are thinking of his 2019 cap hit of 8.4M.

 

Allen Costs us Less than 5M (4.9) this yr and exactly 5M next yr. All the other money has already been paid to him and we wont be getting it back. 

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/dwayne-allen-9874/

[Tmoney]

On 2/16/2017 at 9:32 AM, ztboiler said:

This business about Dwayne Allen, his contract, and angst over it being a barrier to keeping Doyle is so very overstated.  

 

DA's contract was front loaded a bit with $9M hitting the 2016 cap.  The next 2 years are cap hits of $6M and we can cut him before year 4 for a savings of $7.4M and $1M dead money.  It's essentially a 3 year $22M deal with a Team option of $7.4M on the 4th year.  

 

Given the way we use both DA and Doyle, we can easily afford to put Doyel on a similar contract for the next 2 years before any decision has to be made on either of them....and that is exactly what we should expect Ballard to do.  I think Doyel will come in a touch cheaper in the $5M APY range on a 4 year deal.

 

 

That's all true with Dwaynes contract this isn't the ideal year to cut him because we eat 3 mil in dead. Where I think your wrong is it not effecting retaining Jack Doyle. Jack Doyle already has stated he's testing free agency and I guarantee a team offers him more then 5mil/yr. Were looking at having to match a 8-10 mil/yr contract. That's almost 20 mil on 1 position. That's not efficient and we have a ton of other needs. IMO dawyne Allen is our 3rd best TE and gets paid like he's a top 10 TE in the NFL. His contract is horrible and his injuries have taken the best of his abilities. He needs to be cut this year

[NewColtsFan]

On 2/15/2017 at 3:55 PM, COLTS449 said:

Nick Perry - 5/52

 

AJ Bouye - 5/56

 

Brandon Williams - 4/48 (He'll get paid trust me) That's fair IMO. What did DH get? Something like this I know

 

TJ Lang - 3/24

 

Armonty Bryant - 1/2 (No risk, potential MONSTER reward, had issues, but super talented. If he can play 16 games with enough snaps he could put up 10 plus sacks. He had 3 sacks in like 5 games this year.

 

Trade for Josh Gordon, or sign him when he's reinstated.

 

Trade for, or sign Daryl Washington when or IF he's reinstated.

 

^^^^^^ Two dirt cheap signings who could end up being brilliant moves if both stay on the field.

 

If we hit on just one of Gordon or Washington it would be worth it. a top 3 WR and a top 10 ILB for next to nothing? Yeah I'll take that gamble. It's like betting a dollar for a chance to win a million, but with like 50/50 odds LOL. But no. Gordon and Washington will know this is their last shot, so I expect at least 1 to step up and get back on track.

 

Harrison got 5/46.    9.2 per.....

 

Williams is NOT going to get 4/48.      Not unless someone decides to dramatically overpay which is possible.    But it's not very likely.

 

Our biggest problem is that the Colts will likely be something like 8-10 in most money to spend, and some teams will have $100 or more to spend.     That hasn't happened in the last 5 years.    That's crazy money.   Which means we're going to get outbid by a number of teams.     People may think Ballard has gone conservative when what may happen is that he offers big money,  but another team offers BIGGER. 

 

I fear that will happen more than we know.........

 

 

[Tmoney]

21 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

You are looking at Cap numbers my friend. DA only makes 4.9Mil this year as 1M of his cap hit is a prorated part of his signing bonus. Also his cap number for 2018 is only 6M (counting his signing bonus hit of 1M) so i dont know where you got over 8.... unless you are thinking of his 2019 cap hit of 8.4M.

 

Allen Costs us Less than 5M (4.9) this yr and exactly 5M next yr. All the other money has already been paid to him and we wont be getting it back. 

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/dwayne-allen-9874/

Okay that's fine I was wrong about the exactness of his contract. What I don't understand is why we would get nothing for cutting him? He gets his signing bonus not the roster bonus correct? He doesn't get all that. 

[Tmoney]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Harrison got 5/46.    9.2 per.....

 

Williams is NOT going to get 4/48.      Not unless someone decides to dramatically overpay which is possible.    But it's not very likely.

 

Our biggest problem is that the Colts will likely be something like 8-10 in most money to spend, and some teams will have $100 or more to spend.     That hasn't happened in the last 5 years.    That's crazy money.   Which means we're going to get outbid by a number of teams.     People may think Ballard has gone conservative when what may happen is that he offers big money,  but another team offers BIGGER. 

 

I fear that will happen more than we know.........

 

 

What makes you think well only have 8-10 mil? Also who is it that has 100 mil browns, 49ers, jags, and titains right? Titains scare me, everyone else is ganna have to pay double to get FA to go there

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

What makes you think well only have 8-10 mil? Also who is it that has 100 mil browns, 49ers, jags, and titains right? Titains scare me, everyone else is ganna have to pay double to get FA to go there

 

No, sorry,  not 8-10 million to spend.

 

That we'll only have the 8th to the 10th most money to spend overall.

 

We'll have roughly $60-65 Million to spend,  but roughly 7-9 other teams will have more to spend than the Colts.  And in some cases,  dramatically more.     At least two teams are projected to have more than $100 million to spend. 

 

I fear we will simply be outspent for top talent.
 

Sorry for the confusion....

 

[SaturdayAllDay]

4 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

Okay that's fine I was wrong about the exactness of his contract. What I don't understand is why we would get nothing for cutting him? He gets his signing bonus not the roster bonus correct? He doesn't get all that. 

He doesnt get the roster bonus so long as we cut him before the date it comes in (which is typically within the first few days of the new league year in March). We technically save 5.9 Million by cutting him in the next few weeks, but it comes with a 3 Million cap hit for this year if we do so. 

Because of that we save 2.9M against the cap this year by cutting him, which IMO isnt really enough to warrant cutting him, as Swoope hasnt shown he can be a good blocker as of yet, meaning we would have to go out and put resources (either a FA or a draft pick) into someone who can, as we like running out of 2TE sets, as well as sets where we use 1 TE as a FB and another as a typical TE. Realistically it doesnt make sense to create a hole to attempt to fill another hole, especially when we have the money to pay both Allen and Doyle (at least for one year).

 

Im not crazy about Allens contributions so far either, but cutting him right now is bad from a business standpoint. We have enough holes, creating more for petty amounts of money wont help. It makes sense to keep him for one year, then either cut him or renegotiate his contract if he doesnt light the world on fire this season.

 

[Tmoney]

22 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No, sorry,  not 8-10 million to spend.

 

That we'll only have the 8th to the 10th most money to spend overall.

 

We'll have roughly $60-65 Million to spend,  but roughly 7-9 other teams will have more to spend than the Colts.  And in some cases,  dramatically more.     At least two teams are projected to have more than $100 million to spend. 

 

I fear we will simply be outspent for top talent.
 

Sorry for the confusion....

 

Aaaaa got you I probably should've put that together. I do agree with you we will miss out on the big names, but I'm optimistic we can hit on a couple of the lesser named, young talents. No guarantees but if CB is a smooth talker and well liked, which it seems most feel that way, then he can make some magic happen potentially.

[Tmoney]

6 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

He doesnt get the roster bonus so long as we cut him before the date it comes in (which is typically within the first few days of the new league year in March). We technically save 5.9 Million by cutting him in the next few weeks, but it comes with a 3 Million cap hit for this year if we do so. 

Because of that we save 2.9M against the cap this year by cutting him, which IMO isnt really enough to warrant cutting him, as Swoope hasnt shown he can be a good blocker as of yet, meaning we would have to go out and put resources (either a FA or a draft pick) into someone who can, as we like running out of 2TE sets, as well as sets where we use 1 TE as a FB and another as a typical TE. Realistically it doesnt make sense to create a hole to attempt to fill another hole, especially when we have the money to pay both Allen and Doyle (at least for one year).

 

Im not crazy about Allens contributions so far either, but cutting him right now is bad from a business standpoint. We have enough holes, creating more for petty amounts of money wont help. It makes sense to keep him for one year, then either cut him or renegotiate his contract if he doesnt light the world on fire this season.

 

Okay thank you! I was right about us saving 2.9 which is good I'm glad. That's not a huge savings and we dont need the cap space but that's not why I want to cut him. Jack Doyle is testing the market, and he's ganna get offers around 8 mil/yr. We HAVE to keep him he's arguably Andrews 2nd favorite target and our best TE since Clark, so we match at 8 mil. That puts 14 mil at 1 position, but we have to many needs to have that much money going to TEs. Then we get to Dwayne Allen's play on the field, ever since his rookie year he's been a shell of himself. Injuries ruined his prime and now he lacks the confidence to catch the ball consistently. Also I disagree on Erik Swopes blocking, maybe not as technically sound as Jack Doyle, but sticks ppl hard!! He was the TE we where using at FB later in the season, off the top of my head he 4sure was in Oakland game. I think Dwayne is over paid and out classed by both our TEs in house. For the 3rd TE option check out the depth in this draft at TE, specifically check out Adam Shaeenan. Might have spelled it wrong.

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, Tmoney said:

Okay thank you! I was right about us saving 2.9 which is good I'm glad. That's not a huge savings and we dont need the cap space but that's not why I want to cut him. Jack Doyle is testing the market, and he's ganna get offers around 8 mil/yr. We HAVE to keep him he's arguably Andrews 2nd favorite target and our best TE since Clark, so we match at 8 mil. That puts 14 mil at 1 position, but we have to many needs to have that much money going to TEs. Then we get to Dwayne Allen's play on the field, ever since his rookie year he's been a shell of himself. Injuries ruined his prime and now he lacks the confidence to catch the ball consistently. Also I disagree on Erik Swopes blocking, maybe not as technically sound as Jack Doyle, but sticks ppl hard!! He was the TE we where using at FB later in the season, off the top of my head he 4sure was in Oakland game. I think Dwayne is over paid and out classed by both our TEs in house. For the 3rd TE option check out the depth in this draft at TE, specifically check out Adam Shaeenan. Might have spelled it wrong.

Im not saying that there arent good TEs in this draft class, but id rather see another LB added over a 3rd TE. Plus with our line the way it is, I would not want to add another young, unproven blocker to our offense right now.

 

Swoope did play a bit of FB, which had mixed results. The problem with Doyle/Swoope is that they are much better open field run blockers than they are off the line. Unfortunately we still need a typical "trench" TE the way our system works. If we ran a west coast system (which I would love) our TEs would be great for blocking bubble screens and wouldnt be expected to run block as well. But with our current system and our lack of experience on the line, our OC usually keeps a TE on the line to block and uses either a 2nd TE or a RB as a dump off. I think if we kept Allen for 1 yr, we could have that blocking trench TE for when we ran 2TE sets, but could leave Doyle as our starting TE and get him the reps in 1 TE sets so that he can be a better trench TE come next yr and we can ditch Allen. Plus another year for Swoope will help his mechanics as well and I think next year we will be able to seemlessly move away from Allen, and only need to spend minimum resources (Like an UDFA) on the 3rd TE. We could even grab an UDFA TE this year to stash on the PS to be our next 3rd TE. No resources lost and the kid gets a year of practice to hone his skills (and its a pretty good class for TEs so we might get a good future player as an UDFA this year)

 

Definitely not advocating keeping Allen long term, just while it makes sense and helps the team. Even if we cut him today, we are still paying 8 Million to Doyle, 3 M to Allen, plus at least 2 more TE contracts. Still not a great number for the position. It might even end up being higher if Ballard decides to bring in a Free Agent. I am in favor of taking the hit for 1 year and then coming away better next year. 

[Finball]

Some names I haven't seen mentioned that I would like to go after if we miss out on the big guys or they are just too expensive.

 

Chris Baker

Prince Amukamara

Abry Jones

Bradley McDougald

Vance Walker

Karl Klug

Stefan Wisniewski

Mario Addison

Larence Guy

Larry Warford

 

[Tmoney]

11 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Im not saying that there arent good TEs in this draft class, but id rather see another LB added over a 3rd TE. Plus with our line the way it is, I would not want to add another young, unproven blocker to our offense right now.

 

Swoope did play a bit of FB, which had mixed results. The problem with Doyle/Swoope is that they are much better open field run blockers than they are off the line. Unfortunately we still need a typical "trench" TE the way our system works. If we ran a west coast system (which I would love) our TEs would be great for blocking bubble screens and wouldnt be expected to run block as well. But with our current system and our lack of experience on the line, our OC usually keeps a TE on the line to block and uses either a 2nd TE or a RB as a dump off. I think if we kept Allen for 1 yr, we could have that blocking trench TE for when we ran 2TE sets, but could leave Doyle as our starting TE and get him the reps in 1 TE sets so that he can be a better trench TE come next yr and we can ditch Allen. Plus another year for Swoope will help his mechanics as well and I think next year we will be able to seemlessly move away from Allen, and only need to spend minimum resources (Like an UDFA) on the 3rd TE. We could even grab an UDFA TE this year to stash on the PS to be our next 3rd TE. No resources lost and the kid gets a year of practice to hone his skills (and its a pretty good class for TEs so we might get a good future player as an UDFA this year)

 

Definitely not advocating keeping Allen long term, just while it makes sense and helps the team. Even if we cut him today, we are still paying 8 Million to Doyle, 3 M to Allen, plus at least 2 more TE contracts. Still not a great number for the position. It might even end up being higher if Ballard decides to bring in a Free Agent. I am in favor of taking the hit for 1 year and then coming away better next year. 

I get you man. I totally agree our system offensively is flawed, one dimensional, "pro-style" type offense with no running game, and on top of that our route combinations are awful! Everything is ten yards or deeper which makes Andrew take hits even on completions. I hate Chud and am still hopeful he's fired becuz he's shown for a year and a half his system is predictable and not effective. Dwayne would be our best on line blocker I'll give you that, but I don't think that justifies keeping his big contract. If Jack Doyle gets stronger tho he's easily better, and Erik Swope might be just as good as Dwayne after this off season at most 1 more year. I wouldn't want to sign a FA TE I'd want to draft one later and develop him. In the 4th or 5th there will be some gems

[COLTS449]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Harrison got 5/46.    9.2 per.....

 

Williams is NOT going to get 4/48.      Not unless someone decides to dramatically overpay which is possible.    But it's not very likely.

 

Our biggest problem is that the Colts will likely be something like 8-10 in most money to spend, and some teams will have $100 or more to spend.     That hasn't happened in the last 5 years.    That's crazy money.   Which means we're going to get outbid by a number of teams.     People may think Ballard has gone conservative when what may happen is that he offers big money,  but another team offers BIGGER. 

 

I fear that will happen more than we know.........

 

 

 

We can hang with the 9ers or Browns on a couple signings with 60 plus million to spend. We can offer up as much to Ingram/Perry as they can. Overpay if we have to. We have to add a couple stars this offseason.

[ztboiler]

8 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

We can hang with the 9ers or Browns on a couple signings with 60 plus million to spend. We can offer up as much to Ingram/Perry as they can. Overpay if we have to. We have to add a couple stars this offseason.

I'm curious about this axiom implied in your posts about who to pay and how much...you imply that if we pay notable players as stars...that they will actually be stars.  Is that right?

 

[COLTS449]

1 minute ago, ztboiler said:

I'm curious about this axiom implied in your posts about who to pay and how much...you imply that if we pay notable players as stars...that they will actually be stars.  Is that right?

 

 

So is a double digit sack EDGE rusher not a star? Is a shut down corner not a star? Ingram or Perry aren't Miller and Mack, but they're both star EDGE rushers. AJ Bouye is actually a top 5 corner IMO.

[ztboiler]

6 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

So is a double digit sack EDGE rusher not a star? Is a shut down corner not a star?

Point is, bluntly, that you are projecting what you want a player to be (star) and that they'll be that, on paper, because you paid for it. Historically, however, you get a hamburger but paid for a steak.

 

If you are going to pay Von MIller money, you better get Von Miller.  It's a resource allocation business and the team that does it the best over time wins.  Unfortunately for every other team that doesn't have Von Miller or JJ Watt, those guys elevate the pay rate for above average play to the point that teams have to pay near elite money for non-elite play.  

 

The performance delta is still very wide between elite play and above average...but the pay delta is getting pretty narrow.  Guys like Olivier Vernon are perfect examples last year.  Guys like Perry and Ingram should be exhibit A in 2017.  They aren't busts, necessarily, but they are going to get contracts that will be very dollar inefficient.

 

 

[Carlos Danger]

Anybody think that Jerry Hughes gets cut in Buffalo because of scheme fit?

 

There might be a complete rebuild on offense over there, too  if they don't keep Taylor... McCoy could conceivably be cut as well...

 

Not sure if either would be good for us, but it'll be interesting to see what they do up there, nonetheless.