My Numbers Say We Are In Really Good Cap Shape For 2012

[ColtsBlueFL]

No, it's a short term big loss.

Even Peyton healthy isn't even a cinch Super Bowl. It took him 9 years to get to 1 and win it, and a couple more years to lose another. 2 SB's, and 1 victory out of 13 stellar seasons. many of you make it seem like he's winning it most every year..

Our team is at it's worst since I can remember, and it has spiraled down since 2005 (the year we should have won it, not just 2006). What can a still rehabbing Peyton do with this bunch that he couldn't with much a more talented crew that makes you so assured of another Super Bowl? Really, I'd like to hear it.

[GoColts8818]

Even Peyton healthy isn't even a cinch Super Bowl. It took him 9 years to get to 1 and win it, and a couple more years to lose another. 2 SB's, and 1 victory out of 13 stellar seasons. many of you make it seem like he's winning it most every year..

Our team is at it's worst since I can remember, and it has spiraled down since 2005 (the year we should have won it, not just 2006). What can a still rehabbing Peyton do with this bunch that he couldn't with much a more talented crew that makes you so assured of another Super Bowl? Really, I'd like to hear it.

Not to mention Peyton is STILL getting older and coming off a major injury.

I have no doubt if he gets his body to come back that Peyton will be able to recover from the injury but I also don't think missing a whole year of football isn't going to impact Peyton next year. Remeber he struggled when he came back after missing all of the pre-season in 2008. It took him a half season to recover from that. Now granted he will have all of a training camp and a whole pre-season to over come this but I think missing a full season will impact him.

As for the age thing it catches up to every QB at some point. I've seen a lot of people saying oh Peyton hasn't shown any signs of declining but if you go back and look at his 2010 numbers they were not as good as years in the past. HIs INTs were up (remember the four game losing streak in which he threw at least four INTs in those games?). Now that could be the product of him getting older it could also have been an effect of the nerve in his arm and maybe if that comes back this surgery will fix that and it could also have been a result of the team in 2010 just not being as good as other Colts teams. Personally I would bet on a combnation of all three.

Now once or if his nerve comes back and he is able to play again the surgery might have fixed one of those problems but the other two major issues remain. He is getting older as much as we don't like that but that's going to happen and there isn't much you can do about that other than realize at 36 he's not the same player he was at 26 or 30. Don't take that the wrong way a healthy 36 Peyton Manning is still probably better than 28 of the 32 starting QBs in the NFL.

The talent issue is a different story clearly we can do something about it we can get better players. However that is going to be hard to do even if we trade the top pick. The new players are still going to be rookies and rookies need time to grow. Guys like AG Green are the exception and even then even if we got one he's still one player. We are more than one super star player away from being a Super Bowl team again. Also if we trade the pick most of those picks are probably going to come in future drafts and not this draft really setting up a future QB more than it will help Manning. Now we do have talent on this team but a lot of it is older players with bigger contracts which keeps us from getting other players. We also can't cut everyone or you end with Peyton Manning playing with a bunch of rookies which isn't going to take us to a Super Bowl either.

Also this is ONLY looking at the offense and even then really only look at the weapons on offense and not really factoring in the o-line which needs some work. While we have our tackles of the future I do think the other three poistions on the line need some work. I do like Reitz but I am not crazy about Pollack and that still probably leaves us one o-lineman short unless Saturday or Diem comes back and even if that happened that stop gap solution at best. The defense looks like it is going to have a major overhaul. I think they are going to keep Freeney and Mathis build around on defense along with Bethea. I also think we have some good younger players in, Powers, Nevis, Conner, (who has become forgotten since we started talking about a 3-4) and Angerer to build around on defense. Still there are some major things we need to fix on defense, not the least of which is the DT spot. Also that's even addressing the special teams and outside of the kicking specialist AV, McAfee, and Snow they need a complete overhaul.

So there are a lot of holes here to be fixed to make this team a Super Bowl Team again. Frankly probably more than we can do in one off-season even with a healthy Peyton Manning. Odds are if we make another run with Manning it's going to be in a year or two and try to cash in at the end of his career. Frankly in about four years most of these younger players will be coming into their prime and be ready for their real run. That would leave them stuck without a QB. That's why I think it makes sense to draft Luck even if we keep Manning and groom him to be ready to step in when it's time for Peyton to move on. I will say this if we keep Peyton Manning and draft Luck I doubt Manning stays the last four years of his contract because I don't think Luck will sit all four years. I also think in four years Manning may no longer be the better player. So I think if we keep Manning and draft Luck it just delays the divorace. With that said I am still all for keeping Peyton and drafting Luck and dealing with that bridge when we get to it.

[Jules]

Not to mention Peyton is STILL getting older and coming off a major injury.

I have no doubt if he gets his body to come back that Peyton will be able to recover from the injury but I also don't think missing a whole year of football isn't going to impact Peyton next year. Remeber he struggled when he came back after missing all of the pre-season in 2008. It took him a half season to recover from that. Now granted he will have all of a training camp and a whole pre-season to over come this but I think missing a full season will impact him.

As for the age thing it catches up to every QB at some point. I've seen a lot of people saying oh Peyton hasn't shown any signs of declining but if you go back and look at his 2010 numbers they were not as good as years in the past. HIs INTs were up (remember the four game losing streak in which he threw at least four INTs in those games?). Now that could be the product of him getting older it could also have been an effect of the nerve in his arm and maybe if that comes back this surgery will fix that and it could also have been a result of the team in 2010 just not being as good as other Colts teams. Personally I would bet on a combnation of all three.

Now once or if his nerve comes back and he is able to play again the surgery might have fixed one of those problems but the other two major issues remain. He is getting older as much as we don't like that but that's going to happen and there isn't much you can do about that other than realize at 36 he's not the same player he was at 26 or 30. Don't take that the wrong way a healthy 36 Peyton Manning is still probably better than 28 of the 32 starting QBs in the NFL.

The talent issue is a different story clearly we can do something about it we can get better players. However that is going to be hard to do even if we trade the top pick. The new players are still going to be rookies and rookies need time to grow. Guys like AG Green are the exception and even then even if we got one he's still one player. We are more than one super star player away from being a Super Bowl team again. Also if we trade the pick most of those picks are probably going to come in future drafts and not this draft really setting up a future QB more than it will help Manning. Now we do have talent on this team but a lot of it is older players with bigger contracts which keeps us from getting other players. We also can't cut everyone or you end with Peyton Manning playing with a bunch of rookies which isn't going to take us to a Super Bowl either.

Also this is ONLY looking at the offense and even then really only look at the weapons on offense and not really factoring in the o-line which needs some work. While we have our tackles of the future I do think the other three poistions on the line need some work. I do like Reitz but I am not crazy about Pollack and that still probably leaves us one o-lineman short unless Saturday or Diem comes back and even if that happened that stop gap solution at best. The defense looks like it is going to have a major overhaul. I think they are going to keep Freeney and Mathis build around on defense along with Bethea. I also think we have some good younger players in, Powers, Nevis, Conner, (who has become forgotten since we started talking about a 3-4) and Angerer to build around on defense. Still there are some major things we need to fix on defense, not the least of which is the DT spot. Also that's even addressing the special teams and outside of the kicking specialist AV, McAfee, and Snow they need a complete overhaul.

So there are a lot of holes here to be fixed to make this team a Super Bowl Team again. Frankly probably more than we can do in one off-season even with a healthy Peyton Manning. Odds are if we make another run with Manning it's going to be in a year or two and try to cash in at the end of his career. Frankly in about four years most of these younger players will be coming into their prime and be ready for their real run. That would leave them stuck without a QB. That's why I think it makes sense to draft Luck even if we keep Manning and groom him to be ready to step in when it's time for Peyton to move on. I will say this if we keep Peyton Manning and draft Luck I doubt Manning stays the last four years of his contract because I don't think Luck will sit all four years. I also think in four years Manning may no longer be the better player. So I think if we keep Manning and draft Luck it just delays the divorace. With that said I am still all for keeping Peyton and drafting Luck and dealing with that bridge when we get to it.

Great post.

However I still don't know if Luck sits. Also, there is the chance Peyton never regains the form he feels he needs.

[Jules]

Even Peyton healthy isn't even a cinch Super Bowl. It took him 9 years to get to 1 and win it, and a couple more years to lose another. 2 SB's, and 1 victory out of 13 stellar seasons. many of you make it seem like he's winning it most every year..

Our team is at it's worst since I can remember, and it has spiraled down since 2005 (the year we should have won it, not just 2006). What can a still rehabbing Peyton do with this bunch that he couldn't with much a more talented crew that makes you so assured of another Super Bowl? Really, I'd like to hear it.

Another great post.

[GoColts8818]

Great post.

However I still don't know if Luck sits. Also, there is the chance Peyton never regains the form he feels he needs.

Very true I was just taking that post under the assumption that Manning comes back because that seemed to be what started that debate was that if Manning comes back healthy we are a Super Bowl contending team and I am just saying even if Manning comes back 100% it probably wont be enough.

[Jules]

Very true I was just taking that post under the assumption that Manning comes back because that seemed to be what started that debate was that if Manning comes back healthy we are a Super Bowl contending team and I am just saying even if Manning comes back 100% it probably wont be enough.

I am glad many seem to realize this at least. This team has a lot of holes and question marks. You mentioned a year or two even IF Peyton was his old self and that is also generous. A year or two would be heaven to me.

If this team suprises me then by all means I welcome the suprise lol. A suprise run would not be shocking but winning the whole thing is tough. 1 of 32 teams will win the title. The odds do not favor us or Manning on another team actually for next season. A lot has to go your way sadly to win a title.

Also great point you make here:

Also if we trade the pick most of those picks are probably going to come in future drafts and not this draft really setting up a future QB more than it will help Manning.

[John Dee]

Jules U ROCK...........

[John Dee]

Wamder what if Indy fan ,,,,,,,,,,,,, ??????

[John Dee]

I don't want us to cut Clark, but if you cut him in the 2011 league year, then you free up money on the 2013 cap.

Dallas is still a member of the team?

[John Dee]

Dallas is still a member of the team?

?

Lovely,.......

[John Dee]

Very true I was just taking that post under the assumption that Manning comes back because that seemed to be what started that debate was that if Manning comes back healthy we are a Super Bowl contending team and I am just saying even if Manning comes back 100% it probably wont be enough.

....

[John Dee]

Lets see...

[OZZ]

He presented something I didnt ask him nor on the subject matter he presented. You have no idea what your saying about this topic, what are you the police? People see what he does it's deeper than this particular thread, I also have in fact crunched the numbers a month ago on the draft forum, and I'm doing it again for another thread I'll post. Way to interject when you have no idea what your talking about, now get off me and FALL BACK!

If you want to call out others for acting like the police, why don't you follow your own advice? Just sayin'

[jtcoltsfan]

If you want to call out others for acting like the police, why don't you follow your own advice? Just sayin'

OZZ - you look like my brother. no joke. I'll see if I can find a picture.

[jtcoltsfan]

If you want to call out...

when the beard's in full rage, it's quite similar..

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/134-rich/

[OZZ]

when the beard's in full rage, it's quite similar..

Nice!

FEAR THE BEARDS!!

[UndecidedFrog]

If you want to call out others for acting like the police, why don't you follow your own advice? Just sayin'

Thanks. However I think I am allowed to post whatever I want that is relevant, even though it isn't what he asked for. You see, I'm not here to only post what another poster asks for.

[BmoreColt]

Thanks. However I think I am allowed to post whatever I want that is relevant, even though it isn't what he asked for. You see, I'm not here to only post what another poster asks for.

Your both pretty cool guys.

[UndecidedFrog]

My numbers are very early but even with Peyton and Freeney on the roster, we are about 20 million under the cap.

If we restructure (extend) Freeney and cut Peyton (God that still hurts thinking about) then we would be somewhere around 30 million under the cap for 2012.

I have us right now around $100,000,000 spent towards the 120,000,000 2012 CAP.

My Raw Number is $98,429,913

Here are our notable Free Agents:

Jamaal Anderson

Ryan Diem

Pierre Garcon

Anthony Gonzalez

Anthony Hill

Jacob Lacey

Robert Mathis

Dan Orlovsky

Mike Pollak

Jamey Richard

Jeff Saturday

Ernie Sims

Jacob Tamme

Reggie Wayne

Philip Wheeler

If my numbers are correct then we are actually sitting very good . Like I said, it is very early and maybe some of my numbers are off. I have been very close at knowing our cap over the past 10 years or so though.

I have different data.

My source for contract data :

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/dwight-freeney/

So far, I have:

1) 31 players on 2012 roster that account for $88.59MM towards the 2012 salary cap. This assumes PM at current contract.

2) 15 FAs who are off-contract in 2012. They are:

Anderson, Brayton, Diem, Foster, Garcon, Gonzales, Lacey, Mathis, Muir, Richard, Saturday, Tamme, Toudouze, Wayne and Wheeler.

Currently, they account for $0 to the 2012 cap.

I don't have the past contract information for Hill, Pollak, and Simms. Can you please provide them to me?

3) I think I can safely cut Painter from the roster, leaving 30 players for 2012, and $88.02MM toward the 2012 salary cap.

4) I think I can safely add the #1 draft pick QB, and a QB3 at league minimum to replace Painter, giving us 32 players for 2012 and $92.62MM to the cap.

5) Add in the remaining 21 players to fill out the 53-man roster, at league minimum, and we have 52 players for 2012 and $100.81MM to the cap.

Yes, we are about $20MM under the cap, assuming we don't sign any FAs (including our 15 FAs listed in item 2 above).

Last year, these 15 FAs accounted for $34.94MM to the 2011 cap.

So you see that there will have to be some hard decisions that need to be made to accommodate most or some of these FA re-signs that you may want to do.

You will have to juggle which FAs to not re-sign, or find extra cap space by restructuring current players on contract (like PM and Freeney).

[BmoreColt]

I have different data.

My source for contract data :

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/dwight-freeney/

So far, I have:

1) 31 players on 2012 roster that account for $88.59MM towards the 2012 salary cap. This assumes PM at current contract.

2) 15 FAs who are off-contract in 2012. They are:

Anderson, Brayton, Diem, Foster, Garcon, Gonzales, Lacey, Mathis, Muir, Richard, Saturday, Tamme, Toudouze, Wayne and Wheeler.

Currently, they account for $0 to the 2012 cap.

I don't have the past contract information for Hill, Pollak, and Simms. Can you please provide them to me?

3) I think I can safely cut Painter from the roster, leaving 30 players for 2012, and $88.02MM toward the 2012 salary cap.

4) I think I can safely add the #1 draft pick QB, and a QB3 at league minimum to replace Painter, giving us 32 players for 2012 and $92.62MM to the cap.

5) Add in the remaining 21 players to fill out the 53-man roster, at league minimum, and we have 52 players for 2012 and $100.81MM to the cap.

Yes, we are about $20MM under the cap, assuming we don't sign any FAs (including our 15 FAs listed in item 2 above).

Last year, these 15 FAs accounted for $34.94MM to the 2011 cap.

So you see that there will have to be some hard decisions that need to be made to accommodate most or some of these FA re-signs that you may want to do.

You will have to juggle which FAs to not re-sign, or find extra cap space by restructuring current players on contract (like PM and Freeney).

Nice work Frog.

Maybe trade or extend Freeney to allow that # to include he and Mathis or free the cap space if cut traded. Resign Manning, cut Bullitt and Brackett, rework Addai and Clarke make other cuts I.e. Moala, Mookie, others. Maybe have about 30 to resign garçon and Wayne, rookies and free agents.

[Superman]

Yes, we are about $20MM under the cap, assuming we don't sign any FAs (including our 15 FAs listed in item 2 above).

Last year, these 15 FAs accounted for $34.94MM to the 2011 cap.

That includes Manning and Freeney at a combined $36 million. I think we can safely assume that that combined cap hit will come down significantly, maybe by as much as half or more, depending on what we do with those two players.

We can also probably assume that most of the free agents in 2012 aren't coming back. Maybe three or four with any significant cap hit, and maybe another two or three with minimal cap hits.

There was a picture painted early in this offseason that we had zero cap space, that Polian had painted us into a corner that we'd never been able to do anything about, and so on. We obviously have some cap management decisions to make, some of them really difficult, but it's not all that bad. Especially with the new rookie salary cap.

We won't have the space to go after a big name free agent, but we'll be okay.

[UndecidedFrog]

Nice work Frog.

Maybe trade or extend Freeney to allow that # to include he and Mathis or free the cap space if cut traded. Resign Manning, cut Bullitt and Brackett, rework Addai and Clarke make other cuts I.e. Moala, Mookie, others. Maybe have about 30 to resign garçon and Wayne, rookies and free agents.

I'll do the easy ones first: Going back to my previous post #4

4) I think I can safely add the #1 draft pick QB, and a QB3 at league minimum to replace Painter, giving us 32 players for 2012 and $92.62MM to the cap.

5) Cut Bullitt and Brackett: gives us 30 players, and $91.35MM to the cap. Not much savings because of pro-rated bonus accelerations.

6) Cut Moala: gives us 29 players and $90.79MM

7) I don't have the contract details for Mookie

8) If you cannot identify others, I can't cut them.

9) Now for the harder parts: Do you want me to trade or extend Freeney?

Trading Freeney will save $14.035 to the cap. You will have to provide me the details of the extension you have in mind so that I can calculate the cap hit. I need details such as in lieu of his $14.035 MM salary, what does his new deal look like in terms of a) bonus upfront $, b) how many years, and c) his salary for each of those years.

10) Mathis does not hit the cap since he is a FA for 2012. If you want to re-sign him, again, I will need details like above.

11) Manning currently accounts for $17MM of the 2012 cap. If you want me to restructure it, you will need to provide me details like above.

12) Ditto Addai, and Clark

So, up to step 6, we have 29 players and $90.79MM to the cap.

add in the remainder of 24 players at league minimum to fill out the 53man roster, and we now have 53 players and $100.15MM to the cap.

Not much difference to what I had previously. I think you will need to provide me the details (a,b,c) for each of the moves you anticipate in steps 7 through 12 to see more difference.

[UndecidedFrog]

That includes Manning and Freeney at a combined $36 million. I think we can safely assume that that combined cap hit will come down significantly, maybe by as much as half or more, depending on what we do with those two players.

We can also probably assume that most of the free agents in 2012 aren't coming back. Maybe three or four with any significant cap hit, and maybe another two or three with minimal cap hits.

There was a picture painted early in this offseason that we had zero cap space, that Polian had painted us into a corner that we'd never been able to do anything about, and so on. We obviously have some cap management decisions to make, some of them really difficult, but it's not all that bad. Especially with the new rookie salary cap.

We won't have the space to go after a big name free agent, but we'll be okay.

We can only safely assume these things if you can provide me the details of how PM and Freeney will restructure. I will need your assumptions on:

a) $ upfront bonus money

b) # years of contract

c) salary for each year of the contract.

Please identify which of the 15 FAs you want to re-sign and provide the details (a, b, c) so that I can input the numbers,

Yes, the picture is accurate. We will be over the permitted cap space, if you assume we get all our FAs to re-sign at their 2011 cap hit numbers.

We are about $20MM under the cap space if we assume we get none of our FAs back. Here is where the rubber hits the road...which ones do you want back, and how are you going to pay them? Once you can provide this information to me, I can tell you the impact on the cap space.

[BmoreColt]

I'll do the easy ones first: Going back to my previous post #4

4) I think I can safely add the #1 draft pick QB, and a QB3 at league minimum to replace Painter, giving us 32 players for 2012 and $92.62MM to the cap.

5) Cut Bullitt and Brackett: gives us 30 players, and $91.35MM to the cap. Not much savings because of pro-rated bonus accelerations.

6) Cut Moala: gives us 29 players and $90.79MM

7) I don't have the contract details for Mookie

8) If you cannot identify others, I can't cut them.

9) Now for the harder parts: Do you want me to trade or extend Freeney?

Trading Freeney will save $14.035 to the cap. You will have to provide me the details of the extension you have in mind so that I can calculate the cap hit. I need details such as in lieu of his $14.035 MM salary, what does his new deal look like in terms of a) bonus upfront $, b) how many years, and c) his salary for each of those years.

10) Mathis does not hit the cap since he is a FA for 2012. If you want to re-sign him, again, I will need details like above.

11) Manning currently accounts for $17MM of the 2012 cap. If you want me to restructure it, you will need to provide me details like above.

12) Ditto Addai, and Clark

So, up to step 6, we have 29 players and $90.79MM to the cap.

add in the remainder of 24 players at league minimum to fill out the 53man roster, and we now have 53 players and $100.15MM to the cap.

Not much difference to what I had previously. I think you will need to provide me the details (a,b,c) for each of the moves you anticipate in steps 7 through 12 to see more difference.

Extend that 19 million over three years and add Mathis to a similar deal. Mathis around 8 million a season plus bonus I guess..

Cut Snow, Collins, mookie was a savings of about 1 million from what I read, so that's 3 million there.

Addai and Clarke need reworked deals addai formers to shave a million to cap, Clarke may be more complicated but he needs to come down two million at least.

[BmoreColt]

I'm not sure what Manning's reworked would be but it have to be 5 million or less to reflect savings. Probably more money for years two and three?

[GoColts8818]

Extend that 19 million over three years and add Mathis to a similar deal. Mathis around 8 million a season plus bonus I guess..

Cut Snow, Collins, mookie was a savings of about 1 million from what I read, so that's 3 million there.

Addai and Clarke need reworked deals addai formers to shave a million to cap, Clarke may be more complicated but he needs to come down two million at least.

Why would we cut Snow? He's our long snapper and has done a very good job at it and good long snapper is hard to find.

[BmoreColt]

Why would we cut Snow? He's our long snapper and has done a very good job at it and good long snapper is hard to find.

He's actually a one million dollar cap hit.. Sorry but he's not worth one million in cap space..

[GoColts8818]

He's actually a one million dollar cap hit.. Sorry but he's not worth one million in cap space..

Yes he is one million dollars is not much.

[UndecidedFrog]

Extend that 19 million over three years and add Mathis to a similar deal. Mathis around 8 million a season plus bonus I guess..

Sorry to be dense, but I don't understand what you mean by "extend that 19 million over three years" for Freeney. Currently his is contracted to earn a base salary of $14million in 2012. Why would he agree to dump that $14 million this upcoming season in exchange for $19 million spread over 3 years? If I was his agent, I would tell the Colts to just pay me or trade me. Also, if you can please provide me a) what the bonus $ for Mathis will be? That will hit the cap too.

Cut Snow, Collins, mookie was a savings of about 1 million from what I read, so that's 3 million there.

7) Cut Snow: 28 players and $89.90MM to the cap

8) Cut Mookie Johnson: 27 players and $89.15MM to the cap; acceleration of bonus prorations diminish the savings here.

9) Collins retired last season, and he still has a $1.25MM overhang into the 2012 cap that I cannot remove.

Addai and Clarke need reworked deals addai formers to shave a million to cap, Clarke may be more complicated but he needs to come down two million at least.

Again, I would need a) upfront bonus $, b) # of years in new contract; c) salary for each year. Otherwise I cannot see how the projected cap savings can be had.

So, thus far, we have 27 players at $89.15MM to the cap

Add in the remaining 26 players to fill out the 53 man roster, at league minimum, and now we have 53 players at $99.29MM of the cap.

[UndecidedFrog]

I'm not sure what Manning's reworked would be but it have to be 5 million or less to reflect savings. Probably more money for years two and three?

In order to not pull numbers out of the air, I would like you to give some thought to what the structure of the new deal will look like in terms of:

a) $ upfront bonus paid

b) length of contract

c) Salary for each year.

[BmoreColt]

In order to not pull numbers out of the air, I would like you to give some thought to what the structure of the new deal will look like in terms of:

a) $ upfront bonus paid

b) length of contract

c) Salary for each year.

1. Year one five million a year

2. Year two ten million a season

3. Year three ten million a season

Bonus for final two years if option is picked up at 10 million signing bonus.

[BmoreColt]

I thought Freeneys cap hit on the team was 19 million this year. So I thought the length could be extended to stretch the contract to a ten million dollar cap hit. If a new deal would be reworked I'd give him a max of 8 million same with Mathis, the idea would be to have freeney and Mathis both for Freeneys 19 million cap hit this year.

[UndecidedFrog]

1. Year one five million a year

2. Year two ten million a season

3. Year three ten million a season

Bonus for final two years if option is picked up at 10 million signing bonus.

TY for providing your terms for PM's new contract.

So....continuing our 2012 cap analysis with this new information, we have:

10) Renegotiated PM contract: we have 27 players at $87.55MM to the cap (replace $17MM cap hit with $15.4MM cap hit)

Add in the remaining 26 players to fill out the 53 man roster, at league minimum, and now we have 53 players at $97.69MM of the cap.

Now the follow-up red-face test. Do you really think PM will accept the terms of such a reduced contract

Current PM contract would have paid him real dollars: $63.6MM over the next 4 year

Your new PM contract will pay him real dollars: $5MM this year, with a mgmt option for the following 2 years at $30MM together.

That's about a 45% discount.

[BmoreColt]

TY for providing your terms for PM's new contract.

So....continuing our 2012 cap analysis with this new information, we have:

10) Renegotiated PM contract: we have 27 players at $87.55MM to the cap (replace $17MM cap hit with $15.4MM cap hit)

Add in the remaining 26 players to fill out the 53 man roster, at league minimum, and now we have 53 players at $97.69MM of the cap.

Now the follow-up red-face test. Do you really think PM will accept the terms of such a reduced contract

Current PM contract would have paid him real dollars: $63.6MM over the next 4 year

Your new PM contract will pay him real dollars: $5MM this year, with a mgmt option for the following 2 years at $30MM together.

That's about a 45% discount.

Frog I really don't know bro. I think that five million for the first year would reflect for a cap savings. Maybe 15 million year three and a higher bonus of 20 million. But I hope it can be worked out to resign the necessary players and go get two key free agents like a proven DE and NT Aubrayo Franklin signed a cheap deal in NO and maybe bring Red Bryant or Redding in for cheap. That's all they need cap room for.

[UndecidedFrog]

I thought Freeneys cap hit on the team was 19 million this year. So I thought the length could be extended to stretch the contract to a ten million dollar cap hit. If a new deal would be reworked I'd give him a max of 8 million same with Mathis, the idea would be to have freeney and Mathis both for Freeneys 19 million cap hit this year.

Freeney's cap hit for 2012 is $19MM, of which $14MM is base salary (yes, the contract was back loaded).

Why would Freeney accept a $8MM annual deal when he has a $14MM annual deal now?

Perhaps I am not understanding what you are doing.

You cannot extend the cap hit in 2012, unless you restructure his current contract. You would need him to agree to forego his $14MM salary currently contracted for 2012, into a chain of payments going forward in time. That chain of payments may include bonus money paid upfront (a); straight salary ©; over (b) number of years. To pass the red face test, those terms must be acceptable to Freeney in lieu of his $14MM salary this year.

Mathis, in his previous contract with the Colts had:

5 year deal

$13MM bonus

$1.43; $2.25; $2.3; $2.31; $2.41 annual salaries from 2007-1011, respectively.

This averages to about $4.74MM/year over 5 years.

The franchise tag for DEs cost $10.6MM this year.

So what I need from you to complete this 2012 cap analysis is for Freeney:

What new contract will you offer him that will make him give up his $14MM salary this year?

In this new contract:

a) $ upfront bonus

b) # years

c) salary for each year

What new contract will you offer Mathis, given the information I provided about his previous contract?

In this new contract:

a) $ upfront bonus

b) # years

c) salary for each year

Sorry for needing all these detailed pieces.

[Restored]

Was listening to Andrew Brandt, head of National Football post and former NFL agent for 11 years and he thinks Manning's deal can be re-worked as long as hes willing to re-work it. This also reflects what Bill Polian said in that both parties can restructure the deal if they agree to it. The CBA doesn't affect this choice.

[BmoreColt]

Freeney's cap hit for 2012 is $19MM, of which $14MM is base salary (yes, the contract was back loaded).

Why would Freeney accept a $8MM annual deal when he has a $14MM annual deal now?

Perhaps I am not understanding what you are doing.

You cannot extend the cap hit in 2012, unless you restructure his current contract. You would need him to agree to forego his $14MM salary currently contracted for 2012, into a chain of payments going forward in time. That chain of payments may include bonus money paid upfront (a); straight salary ©; over (b) number of years. To pass the red face test, those terms must be acceptable to Freeney in lieu of his $14MM salary this year.

Mathis, in his previous contract with the Colts had:

5 year deal

$13MM bonus

$1.43; $2.25; $2.3; $2.31; $2.41 annual salaries from 2007-1011, respectively.

This averages to about $4.74MM/year over 5 years.

The franchise tag for DEs cost $10.6MM this year.

So what I need from you to complete this 2012 cap analysis is for Freeney:

What new contract will you offer him that will make him give up his $14MM salary this year?

In this new contract:

a) $ upfront bonus

b) # years

c) salary for each year

What new contract will you offer Mathis, given the information I provided about his previous contract?

In this new contract:

a) $ upfront bonus

b) # years

c) salary for each year

Sorry for needing all these detailed pieces.

3 year 30 million for Mathis 10 bonus... And extend Dreeneys to three years same contract as Mathis with a heavier bonus up front..?

[UndecidedFrog]

3 year 30 million for Mathis 10 bonus... And extend Dreeneys to three years same contract as Mathis with a heavier bonus up front..?

TY for providing the new Freeney and Mathis contract terms.

So,,,,continuing our mock cap 2012 analysis:

11) Sign Mathis (FA) to new 3 year deal, $10MM per year, with a $10MM signing bonus = average per year compensation at $13.33MM

Add to 2012 cap: $13.33MM

Now we have 28 players at $100.88 MM salary cap.

12) Restructure Freeney to new 3 year deal, $10MM per year, with a $12MM signing bonus = average per year compensation at $14MM

Replace the $19.035MM cap hit with a $19MM cap hit ($5MM acceleration of prorated bonuses from previous contract + $14MM new contract)

Now we have 28 players at $100.84MM salary cap.

Add in the remainder of 25 players to fill in the 53-man roster at league minimum, and we have 53 players at $110.59MM of the cap.

Any more changes you would like to make to your mock roster?

What about Addai and Clark?

Addai's current contract is:

He is in the middle of his 3 year contract that pays him upfront bonus of $5.58MM and annual salaries of $2.45; $2.9; $3.07

Clark is also in the middle of his 3 year contract that pays him upfront bonus of $8.37MM and annual salaries of $4.2; $4.53; $5.33

BMore Colt, I'm having great fun doing this mock with you. I hope you are too.

[UndecidedFrog]

That includes Manning and Freeney at a combined $36 million. I think we can safely assume that that combined cap hit will come down significantly, maybe by as much as half or more, depending on what we do with those two players.

You also have to take into account these 2 players and their associated contracts have unamortized pro-rated bonus portions that will accelerate if you cut them.

PM unamortized pro-rated bonus portions (prior to paying the option bonus) = $10.4MM

Freeney's unamortized pro-rated bonus portions = $5MM

So, $15.4MM of the $36MM you identified cannot really be touched.

[UndecidedFrog]

So far, and in summary of your mock cap 2012:

Your team has re-signed Mathis, restructured Freeney and Manning

Your team has cut Bullitt, Brackett, Moala, Mookie Johnson, Painter, and Snow

Your team has allowed the following FAs to leave: Anderson, Brayton, Diem, Foster, Garcon, Gonzales, Lacey, Muir, Richard, Saturday, Tamme, Toudouze, Wayne and Wheeler.

You now have 28 players under contract at $100.84MM salary cap.

Add in the remainder of 25 players at league minimum to bring up your team to the 53 man roster with $110.59MM to the 2012 cap.

The 2012 team salary cap is projected to be $121.2MM

I think you have some holes to fill at LS, WR, TE, OL, LB(?). And you have about $10.5MM to spend.