OL

[BOTT]

10 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Thanks brother. I have my problems with Grigson. Is he perfect? No. Should he have done better with the line in the past? Absolutely. But come on. This thread is ridiculous. I mean the guy went out of his way to draft O linemen, but that apparently isn't good enough.

I don't think it was.  Not signing any veteran linemen during the offseason is perplexing.  Not saying he had to sign Alex Boone, but get some decent depth at least.  Especially when you see Andre Smith sign a small one year deal with the Vikings.

[K-148]

Grigson could sign Evan Mathis, trade for Zack Martin, trade up for Stanley... Still someone would blame Grigson for not drafting La'el Collins and quality OL depth.

[BOTT]

21 minutes ago, K-148 said:

Grigson could sign Evan Mathis, trade for Zack Martin, trade up for Stanley... Still someone would blame Grigson for not drafting La'el Collins and quality OL depth.

Poor Grigson.  He's done such a great job and people are just blind to it.

[K-148]

1 hour ago, BOTT said:

Poor Grigson.  He's done such a great job and people are just blind to it.

Poor people. They are so good at coaching, scouting, drafting and this Grigson guy get GM job.

[BOTT]

46 minutes ago, K-148 said:

Poor people. They are so good at coaching, scouting, drafting and this Grigson guy get GM job.

Getting a job doesn't mean you are good at it.  Heard of Matt Millen?

[K-148]

7 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Getting a job doesn't mean you are good at it.  Heard of Matt Millen?

Yes. And never of you.

[BOTT]

1 minute ago, K-148 said:

Yes. And never of you.

That cuts oh so deep

[Gavin]

1 hour ago, K-148 said:

Poor people. They are so good at coaching, scouting, drafting and this Grigson guy get GM job.

Its alright to not be a homer 24/7. Its certainly alright to acknowledge that the team you root for and pay to go see has a GM whos demonstrated a certain level of incompetence in doing his job in certain areas such as Free Agency and a lesser extent the draft. GM's make mistakes. No doubt about it. Its to be expected but when they make the same mistakes 4 years in a row(I'm talking about the O Line problems) and compound it with some bad FA choices AND THEN keep them on the roster and starting even after a history of bad play then you open yourself up to criticism

[csmopar]

8 hours ago, BOTT said:

I don't think it was.  Not signing any veteran linemen during the offseason is perplexing.  Not saying he had to sign Alex Boone, but get some decent depth at least.  Especially when you see Andre Smith sign a small one year deal with the Vikings.

 

3 hours ago, BOTT said:

Poor Grigson.  He's done such a great job and people are just blind to it.

Look, I can't stand Grigson and blame him for a lot, but lets be honest here, we dont know if:

 

A: Grigson did or did not inquire about signing veterans or trading etc,

B: If those players even wanted to come here after last falls dumpster fire

C: If those players or trade partners were wanting too much

D: What we do know is that he has signed veterans to high dollar contracts and theyve just not worked out. See Donald Thomas and Cheriuls as examples of this.

 

 

I'd like to see a list side by side of all the players drafted/signed by Polian from his first GM job to his firing from Indy to that of Grigson's and the team records and player records.  Maybe I'll work on that tonight.  I bet I find a lot of misses for both.  Anyone wanna take that bet?

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Its alright to not be a homer 24/7. Its certainly alright to acknowledge that the team you root for and pay to go see has a GM whos demonstrated a certain level of incompetence in doing his job in certain areas such as Free Agency and a lesser extent the draft. GM's make mistakes. No doubt about it. Its to be expected but when they make the same mistakes 4 years in a row(I'm talking about the O Line problems) and compound it with some bad FA choices AND THEN keep them on the roster and starting even after a history of bad play then you open yourself up to criticism

 

I think incompetence is too strong a word.

 

Remember,  I called for Grigson to be fired this past winter,  so I'm off his band wagon.   But I still think incompetence is too strong a word.

 

I think we had something of a bad streak of luck.      In 2013,  we invested big money or high picks in Cherilus, Thomas,  Thornton and Holmes.      And basically,  we've got almost nothing out of them.     What were the odds?

 

Thornton and Holmes weren't over-drafted,  they went where they should go.    Both have suffered from injuries.

 

Cherilus and Thomas also had a rash of injuries.    And with what we invested in them,  you have to keep them on the roster or you're faced with Dead Cap Hits that cripple your decisions in the future.     You have to give guys who get hurt a chance to heal and play to see what they can do when healthy.     An amazing streak of bad luck.

 

Signing Herremans was a head scratcher.    He went from starter to off the roster in a matter of weeks.    That's a bad signing.    

 

But we've invested picks and dollars trying to address problems.    Not all of them work out,  and that's where we are.

 

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think incompetence is too strong a word.

 

Remember,  I called for Grigson to be fired this past winter,  so I'm off his band wagon.   But I still think incompetence is too strong a word.

 

I think we had something of a bad streak of luck.      In 2013,  we invested big money or high picks in Cherilus, Thomas,  Thornton and Holmes.      And basically,  we've got almost nothing out of them.     What were the odds?

 

Thornton and Holmes weren't over-drafted,  they went where they should go.    Both have suffered from injuries.

 

Cherilus and Thomas also had a rash of injuries.    And with what we invested in them,  you have to keep them on the roster or you're faced with Dead Cap Hits that cripple your decisions in the future.     You have to give guys who get hurt a chance to heal and play to see what they can do when healthy.     An amazing streak of bad luck.

 

Signing Herremans was a head scratcher.    He went from starter to off the roster in a matter of weeks.    That's a bad signing.    

 

But we've invested picks and dollars trying to address problems.    Not all of them work out,  and that's where we are.

 

exactly!

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

 

Look, I can't stand Grigson and blame him for a lot, but lets be honest here, we dont know if:

 

A: Grigson did or did not inquire about signing veterans or trading etc,

B: If those players even wanted to come here after last falls dumpster fire

C: If those players or trade partners were wanting too much

D: What we do know is that he has signed veterans to high dollar contracts and theyve just not worked out. See Donald Thomas and Cheriuls as examples of this.

 

 

I'd like to see a list side by side of all the players drafted/signed by Polian from his first GM job to his firing from Indy to that of Grigson's and the team records and player records.  Maybe I'll work on that tonight.  I bet I find a lot of misses for both.  Anyone wanna take that bet?

I specifically mentioned Andre Smith because he signed a 1 yr 3.5 contract and I believe it was later in the FA period.  I don't think it would have taken much wooing. You can get depth without signing high priced free agent.

 

It's Grigson's own fault he decided to sign players like Thomas and Cherilus.  

Neither had proven much in the league and one had a bum knee.

 

of course their will be a lot of misses with Polian.  It's not that Grigson misses, it's the guys he gambles on....TRich, Werner, Cherilus, Thomas, RJF, Landry, drafting a 3 rd WR in the first round.  Those things are just head scratching.

[csmopar]

3 hours ago, BOTT said:

I specifically mentioned Andre Smith because he signed a 1 yr 3.5 contract and I believe it was later in the FA period.  I don't think it would have taken much wooing. You can get depth without signing high priced free agent.

 

It's Grigson's own fault he decided to sign players like Thomas and Cherilus.  

Neither had proven much in the league and one had a bum knee.

 

of course their will be a lot of misses with Polian.  It's not that Grigson misses, it's the guys he gambles on....TRich, Werner, Cherilus, Thomas, RJF, Landry, drafting a 3 rd WR in the first round.  Those things are just head scratching.

 

 

I'll give you Dorsett. But.....just to play devils advocate here, keep in mind I wanted Grigs fired last year and still wish they had. However.

 

Landry was coming off a pro bowl season and had numerous suitors. Can't blame Grigson for the dude suddenly deciding to try to dope up and spend more time lifting weights than playing football.

 

Werner was graded as a 1st round pick by all the "experts". Heck a lot of members here were very high on him that night. So Grigs and a lot of others got fooled.

 

Thomas and Cheriulus weren't exactly known but they weren't exactly unknown either and yeah niether worked out. Not sure just how much I can truly blame Grigson there but yeah, he gets dinfed here because of the contracts he gave.

 

The Trich thing..... everyone and I mean everyone was thrilled when he got traded to us. He had a 900+ yard season his rookie year behind a shoot OL as well. Everyone was raving on Grigson and thought Grigs had fleeced the Browns. The only one to blame here is Trent for getting fay and lazy and not being able to spot a lane to run in if his life depended on it is Trent himself. 32 out of 32 GMs would have pulled that trade off if they could have at the time. Well maybe not bellichick but still.

 

 

He tried, he failed yes. But he's gotten alot of wrath for stuff he really couldn't have foreseen yet gets little credit when he does make a right call..... ..

[BOTT]

8 hours ago, csmopar said:

 

 

I'll give you Dorsett. But.....just to play devils advocate here, keep in mind I wanted Grigs fired last year and still wish they had. However.

 

Landry was coming off a pro bowl season and had numerous suitors. Can't blame Grigson for the dude suddenly deciding to try to dope up and spend more time lifting weights than playing football.

 

Werner was graded as a 1st round pick by all the "experts". Heck a lot of members here were very high on him that night. So Grigs and a lot of others got fooled.

 

Thomas and Cheriulus weren't exactly known but they weren't exactly unknown either and yeah niether worked out. Not sure just how much I can truly blame Grigson there but yeah, he gets dinfed here because of the contracts he gave.

 

The Trich thing..... everyone and I mean everyone was thrilled when he got traded to us. He had a 900+ yard season his rookie year behind a shoot OL as well. Everyone was raving on Grigson and thought Grigs had fleeced the Browns. The only one to blame here is Trent for getting fay and lazy and not being able to spot a lane to run in if his life depended on it is Trent himself. 32 out of 32 GMs would have pulled that trade off if they could have at the time. Well maybe not bellichick but still.

 

 

He tried, he failed yes. But he's gotten alot of wrath for stuff he really couldn't have foreseen yet gets little credit when he does make a right call..... ..

 

If Grigson signed Landry because of one "pro bowl" season, that's his problem.    Hell, even fans from the teams he played for came to this forum and told us he stunk.

 

I will give you that Werner went where he was projected,. But if you look at his college tape, you don't see NFL traits. If Grigson had drafted a bust like Dion Jordan or Mingo I wouldn't be so hard on him because the at least they had some visible natural ability to work with. Werner just looked slow and unathletic for his position. Pagano supposedly worked him out twice so maybe blame him......but I don't like Chuck either lol.

 

i don't blame Grigson for Thomas' injury, buy the guy had started like 7 games in the previous 4 years.  He should at least have been cut after his first leg injury.  Cherilus had micro fracture surgery....and that's who Grigson made the highest paid RT.  

 

Not everyone was thrilled with the TRich trade and 31 of 31 wouldn't have pulled the trigger.  Many talking heads loved the trade, but that only proves nobody watches Cleveland Browns football.  I thought TRich was waaay overrated coming out of Bama so I watched some of his play in Cleveland after the trade was announced to see if I missed something.....nope, he was pretty much the same player we all saw here. I'm sorry, but if my dumb butt can see TRich sucked, then I expect Grigson to see it.  

 

But it we can agree to disagree.  Pointing out Grigson isn't a good GM wears me out lol.  I'm not used to writing more than a couple sentences.

[Cynjin]

1 hour ago, BOTT said:

 

If Grigson signed Landry because of one "pro bowl" season, that's his problem.    Hell, even fans from the teams he played for came to this forum and told us he stunk.

 

I will give you that Werner went where he was projected,. But if you look at his college tape, you don't see NFL traits. If Grigson had drafted a bust like Dion Jordan or Mingo I wouldn't be so hard on him because the at least they had some visible natural ability to work with. Werner just looked slow and unathletic for his position. Pagano supposedly worked him out twice so maybe blame him......but I don't like Chuck either lol.

 

i don't blame Grigson for Thomas' injury, buy the guy had started like 7 games in the previous 4 years.  He should at least have been cut after his first leg injury.  Cherilus had micro fracture Itsurgery....and that's who Grigson made the highest paid RT.  

 

Not everyone was thrilled with the TRich trade and 31 of 31 wouldn't have pulled the trigger.  Many talking heads loved the trade, but that only proves nobody watches Cleveland Browns football.  I thought TRich was waaay overrated coming out of Bama so I watched some of his play in Cleveland after the trade was announced to see if I missed something.....nope, he was pretty much the same player we all saw here. I'm sorry, but if my dumb butt can see TRich sucked, then I expect Grigson to see it.  

 

But it we can agree to disagree.  Pointing out Grigson isn't a good GM wears me out lol.  I'm not used to writing more than a couple sentences.

 

It's amazing no one has hired you for a high paying GM position yet, with all of your insight into who will become a good NFL player and all.

[BOTT]

17 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

It's amazing no one has hired you for a high paying GM position yet, with all of your insight into who will become a good NFL player and all.

Oh look, it's the laziest and most over used jab on this forum.  Congratulations on being an unoriginal bore.

 

[smittywerb]

We get it, Grigs and company missed opportunities to improve the line, like every team,. But one thing you can't say is he hasn't tried.

 

our top 3 round picks in constanzo, mewhort, and kelly to me will all be studs. Like others have said, we are headed in the right direction.

[Jdubu]

2 hours ago, BOTT said:

 

If Grigson signed Landry because of one "pro bowl" season, that's his problem.    Hell, even fans from the teams he played for came to this forum and told us he stunk.

 

I will give you that Werner went where he was projected,. But if you look at his college tape, you don't see NFL traits. If Grigson had drafted a bust like Dion Jordan or Mingo I wouldn't be so hard on him because the at least they had some visible natural ability to work with. Werner just looked slow and unathletic for his position. Pagano supposedly worked him out twice so maybe blame him......but I don't like Chuck either lol.

 

i don't blame Grigson for Thomas' injury, buy the guy had started like 7 games in the previous 4 years.  He should at least have been cut after his first leg injury.  Cherilus had micro fracture surgery....and that's who Grigson made the highest paid RT.  

 

Not everyone was thrilled with the TRich trade and 31 of 31 wouldn't have pulled the trigger.  Many talking heads loved the trade, but that only proves nobody watches Cleveland Browns football.  I thought TRich was waaay overrated coming out of Bama so I watched some of his play in Cleveland after the trade was announced to see if I missed something.....nope, he was pretty much the same player we all saw here. I'm sorry, but if my dumb butt can see TRich sucked, then I expect Grigson to see it.  

 

But it we can agree to disagree.  Pointing out Grigson isn't a good GM wears me out lol.  I'm not used to writing more than a couple sentences.

You point out all the failures that have occurred under Grigson, did you point out any of his success? You come off here as a bit of a I'm better than he is with your posts. You have the insight of sitting at home picking apart trades and deals made without having any knowledge of the day to day operation. Hindsight is way easier to be right from but my guess would be, if you ran the team from where Grigs sits (and I'm not a big fan of Grigs either) you too would have as many if not way more fails than Grigs has. If you had such great talent to be able to scout the Trent Richardson's of the world, why is it you are posting inside of a colts message board and not from a prestigious front office somewhere? 

[Jdubu]

16 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

We get it, Grigs and company missed opportunities to improve the line, like every team,. But one thing you can't say is he hasn't tried.

 

our top 3 round picks in constanzo, mewhort, and kelly to me will all be studs. Like others have said, we are headed in the right direction.

I would say Constanzo needs to play better than he has from last year and what ice seen in preseason for him to be elite but I will say that Mewhort, Good and Kelly all have that potential. Here is to hoping that Haeg can lock down that RT spot. 

[BOTT]

33 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

You point out all the failures that have occurred under Grigson, did you point out any of his success? You come off here as a bit of a I'm better than he is with your posts. You have the insight of sitting at home picking apart trades and deals made without having any knowledge of the day to day operation. Hindsight is way easier to be right from but my guess would be, if you ran the team from where Grigs sits (and I'm not a big fan of Grigs either) you too would have as many if not way more fails than Grigs has. If you had such great talent to be able to scout the Trent Richardson's of the world, why is it you are posting inside of a colts message board and not from a prestigious front office somewhere? 

I didn't point out his success because the poster I was responding to was defending his failures.

 

there was is no hindsight concerning the TRich trade.  I said on this forum it was horrible when it was announced.  And what does the day to day operations have to do with a player being good or not?  I outlined pretty elementary things....guys are slow, unathletic, have an injury history, etc.. Not exactly groundbreaking information.

 

and stop with the ultra lazy argument "if you are so good.......".  I dunno know why I don't work as a GM in the NFL.......guess I should have gone to Purdue's prestigious "Jim Colletto School of Football".

[Cynjin]

7 hours ago, BOTT said:

Oh look, it's the laziest and most over used jab on this forum.  Congratulations on being an unoriginal bore.

 

 

You need to take a long look in the mirror.

[evilleseniorfan]

As the original poster, I ask you to reread the final line.  Is Mgmt. committed or incompetent?

Thank you for the responses, but after reading some of them, I have to ask "how do you define incompetence?" 

[BOTT]

5 hours ago, Cynjin said:

 

You need to take a long look in the mirror.

yep, still devilishly handsome.

[smittywerb]

On September 11, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Jdubu said:

I would say Constanzo needs to play better than he has from last year and what ice seen in preseason for him to be elite but I will say that Mewhort, Good and Kelly all have that potential. Here is to hoping that Haeg can lock down that RT spot. 

 

I agree.  He has played better but he needs to be elite level.  Given some time to gel, I think this line will be serviceable.  We have to work on that right side.

[Jdubu]

1 minute ago, smittywerb said:

 

I agree.  He has played better but he needs to be elite level.  Given some time to gel, I think this line will be serviceable.  We have to work on that right side.

I was a whole lot more happy with how that oline played Sunday than I expected to. Saying that, we have to learn better run blocking but I'll take keeping Luck upright and more than 3 seconds of time while the line figures out the zbs and learns their other oline partners tendencies and we all know that takes time and repetition under live fire. The right side though is of concern from the one game we've seen.