Loaded class for D-Lineman

[COLTS449]

This class is absolutely stacked with really good DL prospects. You're going to have 1st round talent fall to the 2nd round. 2nd round talent fall to the 3rd, and so on. I mean its stacked. So I'm thinking Grigs will pick one up in the 2nd or 3rd round. We could get some real value by taking a DT in the 2nd or 3rd. When a position is so loaded from top to bottom you should definitely take advantage. We should be able to get a guy like Vernon Butler, Austin Johnson,  Hassan Ridgeway, or Willie Henry in the 2nd or 3rd. Or Chris Jones or Jarran Reed could possibly be there in the 2nd. Or its even possible one of Billings or Rankins falls to the 2nd. Their not all going in the 1st round. So I think we should be all over these D-Lineman this year. Like I said. We could get some big time value in the 2nd or 3rd round IMO. Thoughts????

[Track Guy]

D-lineman is a strong position yeah. Between:

 

A'Shawn Robinson

Andrew Billings

Robert Nkemdiche

Sheldon Rankins

Kenny Clark

Vernon Butler

Deforest Buckner

Jonathan Bullard

Kevin Dodd

Jarran Reed

 

That's 10 guys that would project to either DE or DT in our system, and you can find analysts who will rave about any of them. It's likely at least one or two of them are available in the middle of the second round. So who knows. 

[NewColtsFan]

Good post, 449....

 

Best class of DT's in a very, very long time.....

 

Very good class of DE's.

 

I hope we have one of them by the end of the 3rd round.     

 

 

[Gavin]

I'm not to high on Rankins actually.

[cm43sports]

Agreed that talent will fall in a loaded position group and this draft corner and d-lineman are those positions. I would love Nkemdiche in the first and Chris Jones in the third or fourth. Those two along with Parry, Arthur Jones, Anderson and Langford would make our pass rushers look a lot better than they are. The corners are also rather deep so a player such as Kendall Fuller in the second would be a good addition.

[COLTS449]

52 minutes ago, Gavin said:

I'm not to high on Rankins actually.

 

Gavin you're one of the better posters on here, and I respect your opinion on things. So would you care to tell me what it is you dislike about Rankins.  I've seen some people who think he's best suited for a 4-3, and not no much in a 3-4.

[COLTS449]

41 minutes ago, cm43sports said:

Agreed that talent will fall in a loaded position group and this draft corner and d-lineman are those positions. I would love Nkemdiche in the first and Chris Jones in the third or fourth. Those two along with Parry, Arthur Jones, Anderson and Langford would make our pass rushers look a lot better than they are. The corners are also rather deep so a player such as Kendall Fuller in the second would be a good addition.

 

Yeah, but we also have to bring in a pass rusher to improve in that area.

[COLTS449]

As far as nose tackles. I like Billings and Johnson quite a bit. Austin Johnson would be a good 2nd or 3rd round pick. Then as far as the DE's/DT's a couple guys I like are Vernon Butler and Hassan Ridgeway. Ridgeway has as much upside as any DT in the class IMO. But he's also kind of a boom or bust prospect so that's a little worrisome IMO.

[cm43sports]

3 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Yeah, but we also have to bring in a pass rusher to improve in that area.

I might take a swing on a later-round player like Alex McCalister or a free agent. I'd certainly try to wait until next year to spend a high pick on a pass rusher because the value will be much better. Myles Garret, Derek Barnett, Charles Harris, Lorenzo Carter, Peter Kalambayi, Lewis Neal, and Marquis Haynes are all among top potential picks. I'm a big fan of Noah Spence but since he's either the best or second best pass rusher, depending on how you view Bosa, and I think he'll go earlier than he should because of that. The value in this draft is elsewhere.

[Gavin]

12 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Gavin you're one of the better posters on here, and I respect your opinion on things. So would you care to tell me what it is you dislike about Rankins.  I've seen some people who think he's best suited for a 4-3, and not no much in a 3-4.

-A little short for my liking at only 6'1"....By no means does that affect my opinion on why I would stay away however, I just like my interior D Linemen a little taller...Not a deal breaker by any means though

 

-Struggles to disengage from blockers once his initial burst is stopped.....Which I think is a bit overstated to begin with...He is no Aaron Donald in that category but he does have some burst

 

-Raw pass rush rep, He does an swim move and spin move

 

-On the ground a bit to much for my liking

 

He clearly has talent and I would draft him but I wouldn't take Rankins in the 1st or 2nd

 

 

 

 

[COLTS449]

1 hour ago, cm43sports said:

I might take a swing on a later-round player like Alex McCalister or a free agent. I'd certainly try to wait until next year to spend a high pick on a pass rusher because the value will be much better. Myles Garret, Derek Barnett, Charles Harris, Lorenzo Carter, Peter Kalambayi, Lewis Neal, and Marquis Haynes are all among top potential picks. I'm a big fan of Noah Spence but since he's either the best or second best pass rusher, depending on how you view Bosa, and I think he'll go earlier than he should because of that. The value in this draft is elsewhere.

 

Man if we wait til next year we'll have a mediocre-bad pass rush again this year most likely. We can get one next season too. We have to bring in an OLB or 2 THIS offseason who can put consistent pressure on the QB and post big sack numbers. I mean we have to if we wanna have a shot to win the SB. We cant expect Mathis to put up 15 sacks and 5 FF's this year. I think he'll be much better than he was this year though since he'll be 2 years removed from the injury. But still. Even if he does have a monster year we still have to have another guy who can get after the QB. Not bringing in a EDGE rusher until the end of the draft would be a very incompetent move on Grigson's part. It would be straight up crazy. We just have to bring in a EDGE guy or 2.

[jim scheurich]

I'm always game for a good lineman. I think our secondary needs help, maybe more.

[COLTS449]

31 minutes ago, Gavin said:

-A little short for my liking at only 6'1"....By no means does that affect my opinion on why I would stay away however, I just like my interior D Linemen a little taller...Not a deal breaker by any means though

 

-Struggles to disengage from blockers once his initial burst is stopped.....Which I think is a bit overstated to begin with...He is no Aaron Donald in that category but he does have some burst

 

-Raw pass rush rep, He does an swim move and spin move

 

-On the ground a bit to much for my liking

 

He clearly has talent and I would draft him but I wouldn't take Rankins in the 1st or 2nd

 

 

 

 

 

What do you think about Vernon Butler?

[cm43sports]

3 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Man if we wait til next year we'll have a mediocre-bad pass rush again this year most likely. We can get one next season too. We have to bring in an OLB or 2 THIS offseason who can put consistent pressure on the QB and post big sack numbers. I mean we have to if we wanna have a shot to win the SB. We cant expect Mathis to put up 15 sacks and 5 FF's this year. I think he'll be much better than he was this year though since he'll be 2 years removed from the injury. But still. Even if he does have a monster year we still have to have another guy who can get after the QB. Not bringing in a EDGE rusher until the end of the draft would be a very incompetent move on Grigson's part. We just have to bring in a EDGE guy or 2.

We can't force the value to be there in the draft. If you need to stitch a hole then you address it in free agency. I'd trust Grigson to sign a free agent to a contract that can easily be escaped from. Vernon Oliver or Bruce Irvin or someone would be fine. I would not draft a pass rusher in the first just to say that we tried.

[COLTS449]

10 minutes ago, cm43sports said:

We can't force the value to be there in the draft. If you need to stitch a hole then you address it in free agency. I'd trust Grigson to sign a free agent to a contract that can easily be escaped from. Vernon Oliver or Bruce Irvin or someone would be fine. I would not draft a pass rusher in the first just to say that we tried.

 

Signing Vernon or Irvin would be great. But IMO this is such an important need this offseason its worth trading up if that's what it takes. I'd trade up for Spence in a heartbeat. But there's plenty of pass rushers who will be within our range. Spence, Floyd, Lawson, and Ogbah. But the smartest thing to do is to sign one in FA and then still use our 1st rounder on a pass rusher.

[cm43sports]

3 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Signing Vernon or Irvin would be great. But IMO this is such an important need this offseason its worth trading up if that's what it takes. I'd trade up for Spence in a heartbeat. But there's plenty of pass rushers who will be within our range. Spence, Floyd, Lawson, and Ogbah. But the smartest thing to do is to sign one in FA and then still use our 1st rounder on a pass rusher.

Spence is the only one of those four that I like as a player and as a scheme fit. I still don't believe its worth trading up for him though and its not that he isn't a great prospect. There are too many holes on the team to be trading up for at this point. The defense could use another corner, some better rotational defensive linemen, at least one middle linebacker, at least one safety and of course the pass rusher. If we trade up for a pass rusher, it will likely require a couple picks that could have been used for d-linemen and a corner.

[Carlos Danger]

I fully expect Grigson to get a D-lineman in the 1st 3 rounds, there are just too many good ones to ignore. Combine that with Anderson's injury and Jones's bad contract and it makes a lot of sense to grab a guy who can add to the young core of talent we are building. 

[Gavin]

21 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

What do you think about Vernon Butler?

I will have to watch him more, I watched him briefly. I will let you know by tomorrow

[BProland85]

51 minutes ago, Gavin said:

-A little short for my liking at only 6'1"....By no means does that affect my opinion on why I would stay away however, I just like my interior D Linemen a little taller...Not a deal breaker by any means though

 

-Struggles to disengage from blockers once his initial burst is stopped.....Which I think is a bit overstated to begin with...He is no Aaron Donald in that category but he does have some burst

 

-Raw pass rush rep, He does an swim move and spin move

 

-On the ground a bit to much for my liking

 

He clearly has talent and I would draft him but I wouldn't take Rankins in the 1st or 2nd

 

 

 

 

 

Id definitely take Rankins in the 2nd if he was there. But if Vernon Butler was too I might prefer him over Rankins. Rankins to me can be the next Jurrell Casey from the Titans. Rankins is very explosive for a man his size and he has similar size to Casey as well. 

[Gavin]

1 hour ago, COLTS449 said:

 

What do you think about Vernon Butler?

Positives

 

Athletic for a man his size

-Good closing burst for a man his size

-Active hands

-Can take on double teams well

-Can play in even or odd fronts

-Has range

 

 

Negatives

 

-Needs to develop counter moves

-Struggles from time to time with bodies around his feet

-Needs to be more consistent with hand use

 

I'd take him in the 3rd...Same round I'd take Rankins

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

•  

[RockThatBlue]

2 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Man if we wait til next year we'll have a mediocre-bad pass rush again this year most likely. We can get one next season too. We have to bring in an OLB or 2 THIS offseason who can put consistent pressure on the QB and post big sack numbers. I mean we have to if we wanna have a shot to win the SB. We cant expect Mathis to put up 15 sacks and 5 FF's this year. I think he'll be much better than he was this year though since he'll be 2 years removed from the injury. But still. Even if he does have a monster year we still have to have another guy who can get after the QB. Not bringing in a EDGE rusher until the end of the draft would be a very incompetent move on Grigson's part. It would be straight up crazy. We just have to bring in a EDGE guy or 2.

Would love Noah Spence at 18

[Defjamz26]

With the latest issues with Newsome, they may have to break the rule on not drafting for need. This isn't the time to over pay for a guy like Irvin in FA. We need to draft pass rushers. Trent Cole, Werner, and Newsome will probably be cut. That leaves Mathis and Walden at ILB.

[DaColts85]

13 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Signing Vernon or Irvin would be great. But IMO this is such an important need this offseason its worth trading up if that's what it takes. I'd trade up for Spence in a heartbeat. But there's plenty of pass rushers who will be within our range. Spence, Floyd, Lawson, and Ogbah. But the smartest thing to do is to sign one in FA and then still use our 1st rounder on a pass rusher.

I think we definitely draft one this year and then another next year.  I am pretty high on Lawson and I would not want to trade up for Spence.  We have more than just one hole to fill so trading up and losing those valuable picks would hurt more than help IMO.  

[Traines]

14 hours ago, Gavin said:

Positives

 

Athletic for a man his size

-Good closing burst for a man his size

-Active hands

-Can take on double teams well

-Can play in even or odd fronts

-Has range

 

 

Negatives

 

-Needs to develop counter moves

-Struggles from time to time with bodies around his feet

-Needs to be more consistent with hand use

 

I'd take him in the 3rd...Same round I'd take Rankins

•  

So you're saying there are at least 81 other guys you would take aside from Rankins and Butler?

[Gavin]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 0:51 PM, Traines said:

So you're saying there are at least 81 other guys you would take aside from Rankins and Butler?

Where we are picking in the 1st 2 rounds I think we can land a better player

[krunk]

Why is nobody talking about Kenny Clark from UCLA? He's a pretty big beast in his own right. Plus I like the fact that his coach is a former NFL coach. I'm sure Mora drilled into him how to prepare for the next level. Love his size as a 6'3" nose tackle. Run stuffer and he can push the pocket on passing downs. Had 6 sacks this year.

[COLTS449]

29 minutes ago, krunk said:

Why is nobody talking about Kenny Clark from UCLA? He's a pretty big beast in his own right. Plus I like the fact that his coach is a former NFL coach. I'm sure Mora drilled into him how to prepare for the next level. Love his size as a 6'3" nose tackle. Run stuffer and he can push the pocket on passing downs.

 

I like Austin Johnson a lot better personally.

[krunk]

5 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

 

I like Austin Johnson a lot better personally.

 

To me they are two different types of player.  Austin Johnson is not the type of guy you want to take and tie him up with double teams so that others can make plays. More effective as a one gap penetrator to me, but he is strong and controlled at the point of attack.  Would be pretty good in a Wade Phillips type of scheme or something like the Panthers or Seahawks.  Clark to me is just a straight up Nose Tackle you can place out there and tie up blockers.  But he gives you a little extra with his pass rush ability to be more than a 2 down player.  To me the choice of one over the other most depends on what you are running scheme wise.  If I'm running one gap I'd prefer Johnson.  If' I'm running two gap I going with Clark.  There are some other positional considerations there, but overall I think they are two different style of player.  I mentioned Clark because the only true Nose Man anyone was talking about was Billings and I get that.  Just trying to open the conversation up some. 

[NewColtsFan]

On February 18, 2016 at 7:02 PM, Gavin said:

Positives

 

Athletic for a man his size

-Good closing burst for a man his size

-Active hands

-Can take on double teams well

-Can play in even or odd fronts

-Has range

 

 

Negatives

 

-Needs to develop counter moves

-Struggles from time to time with bodies around his feet

-Needs to be more consistent with hand use

 

I'd take him in the 3rd...Same round I'd take Rankins

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

•  

 

You realize that Rankins is being talked about as a first rounder....    if not, then 2nd round.

 

I have yet to see a projection of him in the 3rd round.     Other than you, have you seen that kind of projection for Rankins?      I'm just asking.....

 

[ColtJax]

I'd take a late round flyer on NLS out of Florida State. Small, around 6', but 305 and has power and a burst. Big fire plug that can penetrate. 5th - 6th round for a good role player.

[BOTT]

On February 18, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Defjamz26 said:

With the latest issues with Newsome, they may have to break the rule on not drafting for need. This isn't the time to over pay for a guy like Irvin in FA. We need to draft pass rushers. Trent Cole, Werner, and Newsome will probably be cut. That leaves Mathis and Walden at ILB.

The biggest issue with Newsome is he can't play.  You don't let a guy like Newsome alter your draft strategy weed or no weed.