Colts sign ex. CFL OG Ben Heenan

[Coffeedrinker]

I found the link, Baltimore Sun was reporting 5 NFL teams...

 

http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/693625

Cool, thanks.

[cjwhiskers]

I actually think Grigs is doing a pretty good job with the line. We have a VERY young line. Mewhort and Holmes look like they are going to get continuously better and become strong starters. People forget our right side of the line was decimated by injury, where we had some pretty expensive free agents.

[crazycolt1]

 

So, I can't make a negative comment about Grigson but it's okay for you to make a negative comment about all other GMs?  Thank you for straightening me out on that issue.  Additionally my negative comment about Grigson is not true but your negative comment about "every GM has trouble finding good lineman" is true.  How does that work?  I assume Grigson falls into that category of "every GM".

 

For the rest:

• Where did I say Grigs does not know what he is doing?  I was very specific regarding my negative comment.
• Of course it's my freakin opinion, it's a freakin' fan forum.  I mean I guess I could talk about such riveting topics as former WWE wrestlers and then go on rampages about kids playing video games but I will leave that up to those that feel they are the only ones allowed to state an opinion about things.

 

Go find someone else to argue with. If you have a problem with me or my comments there is a very useful thing called ignore. It's pretty east to locate. If you have a problem one of the Mods would be happy to help you with that. My simple comment about the downfalls of too much gaming you call a rampage? Better look the meaning of that word up.

[Coffeedrinker]

Go find someone else to argue with. If you have a problem with me or my comments there is a very useful thing called ignore. It's pretty east to locate. If you have a problem one of the Mods would be happy to help you with that. My simple comment about the downfalls of too much gaming you call a rampage? Better look the meaning of that word up.

Woohoo.  I like it when people ignore the obvious.

 

I don't have a problem with your comments, oft times they are a source of amusement for me.  I do like it though that you are the one that jumped on my post and wanted to argue about Grigson then I'm supposed to find someone else to argue with when I point out your hypocrisy.  Keep up the good work crazycolt1 (me thinks that moniker is very accurate)

[Coffeedrinker]

 

After watching the East_West shrine game of him I am convinced that Grigson has no idea what it takes to be a good lineman in the NFL.

 

From what I saw:

The Good:

1. he plays with good form, good knee bend, back straight, arms extended
2. Good quickness to the 2nd level.
3. Good at locating and blocking smaller targets like LBers

The Bad

1. Extremely weak, got pushed around a lot in the video clips
2. Slow out of his stance, several times the defender exploded into him and he barely had his hand off the ground
3. No hand punch at all
4. No power when double teaming a defender.
5. No leg drive once engaged with a dlineman.
6. Lets defenders into his chest too often.

 

He may have improved some of those areas over the last couple of years in the CFL but I think it's more of a situation where those weaknesses are why he plays in the CFL.

 

Here is a 2013 video, his 2nd year as a Rider. Not a Heenan highlight vid, but a Rider TD vid. He is #65, and plays both RG and RT. For a chuckle, pay attention at 2:22. Grabs Kory Sheets and brings him into the end zone for a TD while Sheets was being wrapped up

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFmSQ8z0B_M.

 

Just saw this post, thanks for the link.

 

If anyone wants, I can post my opinion after I watch it, even if some people want to ban me from stating my opinion.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Wrong. Michael Bishop, Chris Canty, Quncy Carter, Troy Edwards, Joe Hamilton, Lincoln Kennedy, Shawn King, Tommy Maddox, Alonzo Spellman and Mike Vanderjagt just to name a few. Matter of fact the receiver Matthews from Seattle who had the nice catches in the super bowl is an ex CFL player. Keep making yourself look uneducated.

Warren Moon, & Joe Thiesman cam from the CFL

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Just saw this post, thanks for the link.

 

If anyone wants, I can post my opinion after I watch it, even if some people want to ban me from stating my opinion.

I watched both some of what you said about the shrine game was true, but I saw some good as well! Most concerning to me were the couple of time he got jack up right off the snap, to his credit though he retreated a couple of steps I believe he then held his ground? There where some plays were he helped open some rather huge holes! Could have been a function of playing with new people & getting use to a higher caliber of play, getting your feet wet so to speak. I thought he looked stronger as a CFL guy. I thought his run blocking was good & feet very good pass blocking hum not sure. Looking forward to your thoughts!

[Gavin]

He looks like he has short arms to me, Plays a bit high once in a while and can get straight legged, Doesn't look like at least at that time he had the power to be a good drive blocker, Has mobility to get to the 2nd level but could struggle with that against NFL caliber Linebackers, Especially given what appears to me short arms...could lead him to lunging

[Superman]

Just saw this post, thanks for the link.

 

If anyone wants, I can post my opinion after I watch it, even if some people want to ban me from stating my opinion.

 

State your opinion. We'll ban it some other time.

[JasonABrown]

We are going to have a cfl all star team ;)

As long as it wins in the NFL...I'm all for it!

[ticat]

Two Super Bowl rings. He was with the Seahawks last year.

True but he watched that game from home I think.

[Coffeedrinker]

After watching the SSK video I must admit, I'm still not overly impressed:

 

The Good:  He is as fluid a lineman I've seen since Rodney Hudson.  He moves very fluid for a big guy and he moves naturally, it appears he doesn't think about body positioning he just there.

 

He is very good at getting to the 2nd level and from there he is good at locating the target and making the block, he won't deliver a devastating block when he gets there but he does get his hands on the defender.

 

The bad:  I still did not see any hand punch

Got beat many times by swim moves or uppercuts and that was because he does not extend is arms, he wants to bear hug defenders and he let's them into his chest,  After watching that video I'm convinced there is no holding penalty in the CFL because on several running plays if he had not held his defender, the guy would have made the play or at least be in position to make the play.

Got pushed into the backfield too much for my liking.

 

I don't know maybe the coaches see something I don't and they feel they can work with him.  But to me it looks like he is a good 2 or 3 years of an NFL strength and conditioning program before he could be a reliable player and by then he will be a 27-28 year old.  Still some good years left but I can't imagine there isn't a dozen or so college guys with similar skills that could be had as an UDFA this year.

 

Of course, I could be completely wrong, it wouldn't be the first time, just one of the few.

[watter]

CFL guy here just following the Heenan story.

 

Hope the guy does well, but he's going to need a lot of coaching in camp.  He's played his entire football life with the D-line a yard off the ball so it will be a major adjustment for him to have less space and time to react. After Cam Wake joined Miami, during an interview he was asked to contrast playing D-line in the CFL vs. NFL.  He said that the yard off the ball makes playing the D-line in the CFL more difficult. The angles are subtely different, plus some techniques will be more or less effective. Heenan has spent his entire career with that advantage over the D-line.  I wouldn't think he's a shoe-in unless the staff thinks he has the potential to keep around on the PS while he adapts his game.

 

Devlin Breaux was the guy Grigson should've chased.  Awesome corner.  Anybody who can play CB in the CFL at a high level can easily make an NFL roster.  With that wide field, six receiver spreads and multiple receivers running straight at you before the snap, it's not a position for the faint of heart.

 

Somebody asked about CFL QBs and the simple answer is that most are either too short or have taken so long to develop into a quality QB that most NFL team would consider them too old.  It takes three to five years to turn a typical, too short for the NFL, NCAA star into a first class CFL QB, thanks to the complexity of five DB coverages and having so little time to make the reads.  By the time the average good CFL QB is putting up big numbers, he's usually pushing 30.  We do have some really good young QBs like Bo Levi Mitchell and Zach Collaros, but at 6'2" and 6'0" respectively I doubt the NFL will show much interest.

 

[ColtStronger]

Muamba was also a former CFL #1 pick I believe. Linemen in the NFL can come from almost anywhere and be successful so I'm excited to see what the guy can do.

I really liked some of the things I've seen from Muamba.  I believe 1 preseason game he had over 11 tackles, and a couple goal line/short yardage stands.  I think he has a lot more maturing to do, but w/ Adongo, not expecting alot.  Hopefully he turns out to be at least decent depth.

[Football Fan]

I didn't realize that. I thought from what I read that Canada had their own Shrine game. But that actually goes right along with my point. He was playing against better competition than he ever had, most likely. I'm not surprised that he got pushed around.

You were saying "The Shrine game is presumably top rated Canadian college prospects."

 

Presumably not. 

[ColtStronger]

Great Videos

Heenan looks very mobile.  Good feet.  This was against elite elite college talent also!  I would definitely say he is ready to play if he can transition well.  Should be an upgrade over Thornton, but if not Thornton will have to definitely earn his starting G spot.  This means Thomas will be shown the door!

[ColtStronger]

CFL guy here just following the Heenan story.

 

Hope the guy does well, but he's going to need a lot of coaching in camp.  He's played his entire football life with the D-line a yard off the ball so it will be a major adjustment for him to have less space and time to react. After Cam Wake joined Miami, during an interview he was asked to contrast playing D-line in the CFL vs. NFL.  He said that the yard off the ball makes playing the D-line in the CFL more difficult. The angles are subtely different, plus some techniques will be more or less effective. Heenan has spent his entire career with that advantage over the D-line.  I wouldn't think he's a shoe-in unless the staff thinks he has the potential to keep around on the PS while he adapts his game.

 

Devlin Breaux was the guy Grigson should've chased.  Awesome corner.  Anybody who can play CB in the CFL at a high level can easily make an NFL roster.  With that wide field, six receiver spreads and multiple receivers running straight at you before the snap, it's not a position for the faint of heart.

 

Somebody asked about CFL QBs and the simple answer is that most are either too short or have taken so long to develop into a quality QB that most NFL team would consider them too old.  It takes three to five years to turn a typical, too short for the NFL, NCAA star into a first class CFL QB, thanks to the complexity of five DB coverages and having so little time to make the reads.  By the time the average good CFL QB is putting up big numbers, he's usually pushing 30.  We do have some really good young QBs like Bo Levi Mitchell and Zach Collaros, but at 6'2" and 6'0" respectively I doubt the NFL will show much interest.

Comparing NFL WR's to CFL WR's do you think Duron Carter will be able to step in and make an impact immediately, or will it take him some time...  He scored a really high football IQ on the Wonderlic Test

[ColtStronger]

After watching the East_West shrine game of him I am convinced that Grigson has no idea what it takes to be a good lineman in the NFL.

 

From what I saw:

The Good:

1. he plays with good form, good knee bend, back straight, arms extended
2. Good quickness to the 2nd level.
3. Good at locating and blocking smaller targets like LBers

The Bad

1. Extremely weak, got pushed around a lot in the video clips
2. Slow out of his stance, several times the defender exploded into him and he barely had his hand off the ground
3. No hand punch at all
4. No power when double teaming a defender.
5. No leg drive once engaged with a dlineman.
6. Lets defenders into his chest too often.

 

He may have improved some of those areas over the last couple of years in the CFL but I think it's more of a situation where those weaknesses are why he plays in the CFL.

He's still young, so that's good news!  Also I'm sure the NFL OL coaches push their players harder than the CFL does.  Apart of the DL lining up 1 yard off the ball, is probably why they care more about technique than strength.  I may be wrong, but I think if he puts on 15-20 pounds of muscle, he will be better than Thornton in another year.  If I'm not mistaken, your a Thornton guy right?

[watter]

Comparing NFL WR's to CFL WR's do you think Duron Carter will be able to step in and make an impact immediately, or will it take him some time...  He scored a really high football IQ on the Wonderlic Test

 

He should fit in pretty quick as he has all of the necessary NFL tools.  He wasn't in the NFL before now simply because he screwed up his NCAA academic requirements.

 

A lot of the best CFL receivers need that running start to get separation and without it, they aren't as effective.  Carter didn't need it.  The trick for NFL GMs is to determine which CFL star receiver can live without it.  I think Grigson already has that figured out.

[watter]

He's still young, so that's good news!  Also I'm sure the NFL OL coaches push their players harder than the CFL does.  Apart of the DL lining up 1 yard off the ball, is probably why they care more about technique than strength.  I may be wrong, but I think if he puts on 15-20 pounds of muscle, he will be better than Thornton in another year.  If I'm not mistaken, your a Thornton guy right?

 

CFL lineman have higher cardio requirements so they tend to be lighter and less explosive.  There's a trade-off between muscles that are good for aerobic work (endurance) vs. anaerobic work (explosive power) and in the CFL, they trend more to aerobic.  So not only will he have to add a few pounds, but his off season training will have to concentrate on developing anaerobic capable muscle.  If he doesn't he will look slow and will get pushed around.

[Coffeedrinker]

He's still young, so that's good news!  Also I'm sure the NFL OL coaches push their players harder than the CFL does.  Apart of the DL lining up 1 yard off the ball, is probably why they care more about technique than strength.  I may be wrong, but I think if he puts on 15-20 pounds of muscle, he will be better than Thornton in another year.  If I'm not mistaken, your a Thornton guy right?

I guess I'm a Thornton guy, I think he has the makings of being a good guard in the NFL for a long time.  I don't see that in Ben.  He does move well but a lineman needs more than good movement, else the oline would be full of dancers.  He also has good balance when moving but he has no form.  His hands are too low, he gets his feet too close together when shuffling, he doesn't extend his arms when engaged with a defender.  And he grabs a lot when beaten... I counted 7 times he held the defender, he may be able to get away with that in the CFL, in the NFL where he's not the #1 draft pick he will get called for it.

[John Waylon]

Love it. Its a low risk, high reward deal for us.

 

Grigson keeps a strong finger on the pulse of the CFL.