Can Polian Rebuild This Team

[luvdacolts67]

I think if Polian gets out of his own way he could successful rebuild this team. He needs to get out of the philosophies and schemes business and hire a competent personnel manager and head coach with a backbone to install his own philosphies and schemes. Polian needs to work his magic and make trades, draft players to fit the new coaches philosophies and schemes, and sign free agents. I was very upset with the promotion of Caldwell to head coach because I felt it was a great opportunity to change directions and install something new.

That is one of the best written posts Ive read. Pollian CAN see talant, he just dosnt know how to use it. That makes sense to me, Well put

[Rich Cannon]

I think if Polian gets out of his own way he could successful rebuild this team. He needs to get out of the philosophies and schemes business and hire a competent personnel manager and head coach with a backbone to install his own philosphies and schemes. Polian needs to work his magic and make trades, draft players to fit the new coaches philosophies and schemes, and sign free agents. I was very upset with the promotion of Caldwell to head coach because I felt it was a great opportunity to change directions and install something new.

well said, i think new philosophies are much needed especially on defense. That could change our team for the better quickly

[Fatboyslim11]

I think if Polian gets out of his own way he could successful rebuild this team. He needs to get out of the philosophies and schemes business and hire a competent personnel manager and head coach with a backbone to install his own philosphies and schemes. Polian needs to work his magic and make trades, draft players to fit the new coaches philosophies and schemes, and sign free agents. I was very upset with the promotion of Caldwell to head coach because I felt it was a great opportunity to change directions and install something new.

What you say has a lot of merit. The question is - can Polian change his insular, autocratic mentality to adapt to such a reasonable approach?

[Buck Showalter]

What you say has a lot of merit. The question is - can Polian change his insular, autocratic mentality to adapt to such a reasonable approach?

Nope I don't think so & that is the reason I think alot of people feel his time is up...

I don't think it is so much the arrogance, or the fact that he has his own radio show as a GM, or that he snubs the local indy media & gets in hissy fits with Kravitz, or even the recent draft history...

I feel he hinders the franchise by being too overbearing & not letting coaches do what they were hired to do, & by creating an atmosphere where abiding to strict policies & schemes is mandatory (as some have already suggested)

The "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mantra is old & tired & we see what it has cost the team this season. The minute manning was out for the season the OC could have pulled out the drawing board & got creative leaning more to the strengths of the players that were actually going to be playing, if the goal were really to try & compete...

[dn4192]

Do we really know to what level Bill has input or say on how the draft will go? Will Bill have final say, will Bill just put in his opinion or will the 2012 draft be all Chris? I think this is what the X factor is at this point....

[Corndog]

Can Chris rebuild this team? Not really sure, he has never done it before. He did have what looks to be a good draft earlier this year. The question is will he hire the right guy to coach this team or is he like his father who wants a bunch of yes men under him that don't threaten him. As far as Bill goes he needs to be out of this organization next year. The person who compared him to Jerry Jones is spot on, and at this point being just an advisor he has no business carrying that kind of power over the team. Much like Jones, initially he did a great job of building this team, but over time his input on coaching and need to be in control of everything hurt this team more than anything.

[OLD FAN MAN]

So building around a franchise QB causes a team to have a suspect D? Every team has weakness because of salary cap?

Well riddle me this...with the salary cap, how can these teams (all with high priced QBs) aford offensive weapons (WR/TE/RB) and also have good offensive lines and defensive players (our forced salary cap weakness by what you said):

New England has Tom Brady but can still afford : Matt Light, Logan Mankins, Brian Waters and Sabastian Vollmer...Welker, Branch, Gronkowski, Green-Ellis, Faulk

AND also manage to pay Wilfork and Carter (and up until a few weeks ago Haynesworth)

The Giants still manage to afford Tuck, Osi, Pierre-Paul, Kiwanuka, Rolle, Grant and Amukamara

The Eagles still manage to afford Babin, Jenkins, Samuel, Rogers-Cromartie, Asomugha and Allen

The Ravens have Cody, Ngata, Lewis, Suggs, Reed etc

The Packers have Woodson, Collins, Harris, Hawk, Barnett, Kampman, Raji, Mathews and Bishop

The Steelers have Hood, Hampton, Keisel, Woodley, Farrior, Timmons, Harrison, Polamalu, Clark and Taylor

These are all teams that spend just as much or more than we do on offensive but still manage to pay several players on D that are better than everyone on our D except Freeney, Mathis, Bathea and MAYBE Nevis in a year or two.

My point is, you can find ways to do it if you WANT to...but Polian would rather stick to the Tampa 2 and draft accordingly (only the players we have now dont even fit with what Polian makes the D coaches run)

cap management separates winners from losers , how well do we manage our cap?

[dn4192]

Cap mag't is key, but when you have 1 team with the top paid player at more then 1 position it makes it tough. How many teams in the NFL have more then 1 player on their roster as the top paid player for that position. I believe the Colts had or have 2 with Freeny and Peyton.

[Superman]

I still fail to see how drafting a quarterback #1 and keeping Manning is an issue of cap management.

[dn4192]

I still fail to see how drafting a quarterback #1 and keeping Manning is an issue of cap management.

Its not

[Superman]

Its not

I know.

[scorp722]

i agree it would work if he would let go ,and let the coach do his thing and bp do his thing

i think he should just resign

[OLD FAN MAN]

Its not

bad cap management happened before the next draft, new rule limits pay on draft picks

[GoColts8818]

cap management separates winners from losers , how well do we manage our cap?

We have managed it very well over the years. Polian has always found money to keep a guy he WANTS to keep. That's the key you can disagree about if he should have let people leave over the years but the Colts let those guys leave largely beacuse they didn't want to over pay for a guy.

[OLD FAN MAN]

We have managed it very well over the years. Polian has always found money to keep a guy he WANTS to keep. That's the key you can disagree about if he should have let people leave over the years but the Colts let those guys leave largely beacuse they didn't want to over pay for a guy.

0 and 11 reeks of bad cap management

[Superman]

0 and 11 reeks of bad cap management

So what does nine straight 10+ win seasons 'reek' of?

This season sucks, to put it bluntly. But to act like the Colts don't know how to manage the cap because we're having a bad season doesn't really hold up.

[unitaswestand]

Interesting. Polian is always ripped because he is a control freak and wants everything to be his way. In all fairness, isn't that what is said about Peyton Manning? Or most people who are successful in life? People have a vision and they are passionate about it.

IMHO, Polian has consistently been rebuilding this team. Donald Brown is showing he is not quite the bust everyone labelled him as. I think this last draft will turn out to be one of the best the Colts have had. If you look a the team as a whole, it is a very young team with older key players. But if Luck is brought in to backup then replace Manning someday, a guy like Tamme will eventually probably replace Clark.

I have little doubt the Colts will be good for the next few years as well as the Luck era. As long as Polian is using his magic to get players we will be fine. I do wish we would get a HC who was upper level instead of mediocre HCs. And I do put Dungy in that position too. He is a great man, but none of these guys are like Belichick or even Andy Reid (save for this year!!). Wouldn't it be nice to bring in a Chris Peterson (Boise State) type HC who could be here for 15 years as well?

[OLD FAN MAN]

So what does nine straight 10+ win seasons 'reek' of?

This season sucks, to put it bluntly. But to act like the Colts don't know how to manage the cap because we're having a bad season doesn't really hold up.

oh yes it does, why dont we have good talent at every spot

[Superman]

oh yes it does, why dont we have good talent at every spot

That's the reason for the cap in the first place. Every team has weaknesses.

[OLD FAN MAN]

That's the reason for the cap in the first place. Every team has weaknesses.

everywhere? i rest my case

[smittywerb]

So what does nine straight 10+ win seasons 'reek' of?

Peyton Manning

That's the reason for the cap in the first place. Every team has weaknesses.

Yeah, they have their weaknesses, but not for 10 years straight. We have had a weak D for the past 10 years. We have had the same weaknesses (Run D, Special Teams, etc.) for the past ten years. That is unacceptable! And some areas that were once strengths (Pass Blocking, Pass D) are now weaknesses! I don't care who the GM or coach is, that is unacceptable.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Peyton Manning

Yeah, they have their weaknesses, but not for 10 years straight. We have had a weak D for the past 10 years. We have had the same weaknesses (Run D, Special Teams, etc.) for the past ten years. That is unacceptable! And some areas that were once strengths (Pass Blocking, Pass D) are now weaknesses! I don't care who the GM or coach is, that is unacceptable.

i agree unacceptable

[MoM]

Rebuild the TERRIBLE team the Polians built in the first place? LOL

[OLD FAN MAN]

Rebuild the TERRIBLE team the Polians built in the first place? LOL

0 and 12 yes!

[billpolianx]

if chris polian is the gm how come peyton said on his interview today with cbs' jb that bill polian made all the personel decisions

[Superman]

Peyton Manning

Yeah, they have their weaknesses, but not for 10 years straight. We have had a weak D for the past 10 years. We have had the same weaknesses (Run D, Special Teams, etc.) for the past ten years. That is unacceptable! And some areas that were once strengths (Pass Blocking, Pass D) are now weaknesses! I don't care who the GM or coach is, that is unacceptable.

I've already done this a thousand times. I'll just say that I don't think Manning is the only reason we won so many games, and I'll say that our defense hasn't been weak for ten years (though it hasn't been as good as we would like). Good teams have weaknesses. The Patriots have had a subpar passing defense and pass rush for several seasons now. The Steelers have issues at offensive line and running back. The Packers struggle defending the pass and running the football. On and on. Even great teams are subpar at certain aspects of the game. That's the purpose of the salary cap.

Ideally, you look at a pretty good team that has an issue, and you say "we need to fix this issue," and it's fixed. It's a lot easier to say "we should have fixed our return game a long time ago" than it is to actually devote resources to fixing it. And with such a good offense, it's worth asking whether you want to devote considerable resources to fixing it in the first place. I disagree with some of the things we've done in all phases, personnel-wise, but the salary cap makes every team make tough choices and sacrifice one thing so as to maintain or improve another.

I think some Colts fans don't understand just how special it is to have a team that hasn't had a losing season in nine years. This season sucks, and there's a lot of blame to go around, but this whole "cap management" issue is manufactured, to say the least.

[smittywerb]

I've already done this a thousand times. I'll just say that I don't think Manning is the only reason we won so many games, and I'll say that our defense hasn't been weak for ten years (though it hasn't been as good as we would like). Good teams have weaknesses. The Patriots have had a subpar passing defense and pass rush for several seasons now. The Steelers have issues at offensive line and running back. The Packers struggle defending the pass and running the football. On and on. Even great teams are subpar at certain aspects of the game. That's the purpose of the salary cap.

Ideally, you look at a pretty good team that has an issue, and you say "we need to fix this issue," and it's fixed. It's a lot easier to say "we should have fixed our return game a long time ago" than it is to actually devote resources to fixing it. And with such a good offense, it's worth asking whether you want to devote considerable resources to fixing it in the first place. I disagree with some of the things we've done in all phases, personnel-wise, but the salary cap makes every team make tough choices and sacrifice one thing so as to maintain or improve another.

I think some Colts fans don't understand just how special it is to have a team that hasn't had a losing season in nine years. This season sucks, and there's a lot of blame to go around, but this whole "cap management" issue is manufactured, to say the least.

First, I appreciate the success we have had. I didn't agree with how we acquired it, but I appreciate it.

On to the topic, dude, how many years has our defense been in the bottom half of the league? How many years has our ST been at the bottom of the league? I understand what you are saying but if that is the case, then why is GB able to buld a team around Rodgers? How come Saints are able to have a great offense, ST, and above average defense? Yes, it's the cap, but it's more about where you want to spend your money. As you can see, most of our money is tied up in the offense. For majority of our drafts, the first pick has been an offensive player. It is obvious that polian intentions is to keep this offense high powered. If he wanted to improve the defense, he would have spent money in the defense, not sign low-budget cast-aways and say "Look we tried and it didn't work." The one year we spent money on both sides of the ball is the one year we went to the SB. And I think that was more of Dungy's doing than Polian. Not saying Dungy paid the players but he had more input of who he wanted.

If you don't think our D has been trash for a while then I just don't know what to say. Yes, every team has a weakness, but not for 10 years! And a team may have a weakness, but their strengths is what pulls them through. You mention the Steelers, yes they have a crappy o-line (as far pass protection) but they have been trying to address it and the Steelers has always been a good running team so I don't know what to say to that. But like I said, they have been addressing it. With the Colts, the same areas go untouched or filled with scrubs. It was not only until recently where we have actually started trying to address those issues.

[GoColts8818]

Rebuild the TERRIBLE team the Polians built in the first place? LOL

Yeah those teams were so terrible they only rewrote the record book for winning. Yes they were built AROUND Peyton Manning but that was by design. Are the Saints or Packers a terrible team because they are built around their QBs too?

[Fatboyslim11]

So what does nine straight 10+ win seasons 'reek' of?

This season sucks, to put it bluntly. But to act like the Colts don't know how to manage the cap because we're having a bad season doesn't really hold up.

This season isn't the only example of bad cap management by the Colts. Bad cap management by the Colts management has manifested itself over the past 7 or 8 years with the bad to horrible players we have been forced to keep on our roster to play as backups and particularly on the Special Teams. We have 20% of the players taking up 70% of the salary cap. The remaining 30% is used to pay the rest of the players. As a result, we have backup players that don't belong in the NFL and special teams that are the joke of organized football. Who is our capologist? Another question to ask is - have the "20%" players actually played in line with their fat contracts? Did Sanders? Did Freeney? What about Brackett or Diem or Hayden or Clark...?

[dn4192]

The objective in pro sports is to win, what does it matter "how" the team is constructed if the end result is winning?

[Superman]

This season isn't the only example of bad cap management by the Colts. Bad cap management by the Colts management has manifested itself over the past 7 or 8 years with the bad to horrible players we have been forced to keep on our roster to play as backups and particularly on the Special Teams. We have 20% of the players taking up 70% of the salary cap. The remaining 30% is used to pay the rest of the players. As a result, we have backup players that don't belong in the NFL and special teams that are the joke of organized football. Who is our capologist? Another question to ask is - have the "20%" players actually played in line with their fat contracts? Did Sanders? Did Freeney? What about Brackett or Diem or Hayden or Clark...?

Should we have let Manning and Freeney walk? Brackett's cap hit has been minimal in the first two years of his deal, which is the way it was structured. Sanders never had an excessive cap hit. Clark's is getting up there, but again, do we let him walk? There's only so much cap magic you can work, but at a certain point if you want to keep your best players, they have to get their money.

Every team has bad contracts and overpaid players. Every team has weaknesses at certain spots, as a result of the salary cap. It makes your drafting that much more important, so the missed draft picks over the last few years really start to hurt. Still, every team misses draft picks.

If we're going to talk about missed draft picks, or players that we let walk that we shouldn't have, that's a valid discussion. But the Colts have done a very good job of managing the cap over the years, and that includes the players you mention above. The biggest problem was the Kelvin Hayden situation, which has restricted us this year. But again -- who was advocating letting Hayden walk four years ago when his contract was up? He was our best corner, and most people wanted him to be retained.

And again, this season isn't an issue of bad cap management. This season is the result of us gradually allowing the entire team to function around Manning's ability to produce offense consistently, and putting all our eggs in one basket. It's a gamble we took that's been working out fine for many years, and it's finally biting us in the butt. But it's not a cap management issue. It's a conscientious decision to not spend money on a backup.

[Fatboyslim11]

Should we have let Manning and Freeney walk? Brackett's cap hit has been minimal in the first two years of his deal, which is the way it was structured. Sanders never had an excessive cap hit. Clark's is getting up there, but again, do we let him walk? There's only so much cap magic you can work, but at a certain point if you want to keep your best players, they have to get their money.

Every team has bad contracts and overpaid players. Every team has weaknesses at certain spots, as a result of the salary cap. It makes your drafting that much more important, so the missed draft picks over the last few years really start to hurt. Still, every team misses draft picks.

If we're going to talk about missed draft picks, or players that we let walk that we shouldn't have, that's a valid discussion. But the Colts have done a very good job of managing the cap over the years, and that includes the players you mention above. The biggest problem was the Kelvin Hayden situation, which has restricted us this year. But again -- who was advocating letting Hayden walk four years ago when his contract was up? He was our best corner, and most people wanted him to be retained.

And again, this season isn't an issue of bad cap management. This season is the result of us gradually allowing the entire team to function around Manning's ability to produce offense consistently, and putting all our eggs in one basket. It's a gamble we took that's been working out fine for many years, and it's finally biting us in the butt. But it's not a cap management issue. It's a conscientious decision to not spend money on a backup.

Keeping your best players at the cost or mortgaging your future is not a sound business practice. The Colts sacrificed the opportunity to win more games by constantly fielding second and third rate backups and special team players, the only ones we could afford after paying our “star’ players. Did the star players deliver? Our defense has always been a bottom tier defense, even with Freeney, Brackett, Sanders and Bethea because they still needed good complimentary players around them and not the Jamal Andersons, Tyler Brayton, Jacob Lacey…types we have taking up spots on the roster. Our drafting has not been good over the past 5 or so years. The players we drafted have not been difference makers – even for our “system.” The jury is still out on this year’s draft class with the usual injuries and poor play. Our misses have been a lot more than our hits and this year is the result of the misses and bad cap management.

Speaking of Hayden, why did we let him go since we did not have an adequate replacement? Also why are two of our healthy 1^st round draft choices constantly placed on the inactive roster? Especially since one would think we need all the help that those number ones should be able to provide the team? Doesn’t sound like responsible drafting to me or wise use of the salary cap.

No one has said or suggested this abysmal, historically bad season is the sole result of poor cap management. There are also the drafting failures of the front office, bad coaching and inferior talent components that has this team at 0-12 and counting.

[Superman]

Keeping your best players at the cost or mortgaging your future is not a sound business practice. The Colts sacrificed the opportunity to win more games by constantly fielding second and third rate backups and special team players, the only ones we could afford after paying our “star’ players. Did the star players deliver? Our defense has always been a bottom tier defense, even with Freeney, Brackett, Sanders and Bethea because they still needed good complimentary players around them and not the Jamal Andersons, Tyler Brayton, Jacob Lacey…types we have taking up spots on the roster. Our drafting has not been good over the past 5 or so years. The players we drafted have not been difference makers – even for our “system.” The jury is still out on this year’s draft class with the usual injuries and poor play. Our misses have been a lot more than our hits and this year is the result of the misses and bad cap management.

Speaking of Hayden, why did we let him go since we did not have an adequate replacement? Also why are two of our healthy 1^st round draft choices constantly placed on the inactive roster? Especially since one would think we need all the help that those number ones should be able to provide the team? Doesn’t sound like responsible drafting to me or wise use of the salary cap.

No one has said or suggested this abysmal, historically bad season is the sole result of poor cap management. There are also the drafting failures of the front office, bad coaching and inferior talent components that has this team at 0-12 and counting.

We just see things fundamentally different. It seems to me like you're saying "you don't pay your top guys now because then you can't win in the future," and I'm saying "you pay your top guys now because you need them to win now."

You and I have been back and forth on a lot of this stuff in the past. You're right about a lot of it; I don't think we've ever been as far apart on this as some may think. Still, I don't understand why or how anyone can complain about cap management.

[dn4192]

Keeping your best players at the cost or mortgaging your future is not a sound business practice. The Colts sacrificed the opportunity to win more games by constantly fielding second and third rate backups and special team players, the only ones we could afford after paying our “star’ players. Did the star players deliver? Our defense has always been a bottom tier defense, even with Freeney, Brackett, Sanders and Bethea because they still needed good complimentary players around them and not the Jamal Andersons, Tyler Brayton, Jacob Lacey…types we have taking up spots on the roster. Our drafting has not been good over the past 5 or so years. The players we drafted have not been difference makers – even for our “system.” The jury is still out on this year’s draft class with the usual injuries and poor play. Our misses have been a lot more than our hits and this year is the result of the misses and bad cap management.

Speaking of Hayden, why did we let him go since we did not have an adequate replacement? Also why are two of our healthy 1^st round draft choices constantly placed on the inactive roster? Especially since one would think we need all the help that those number ones should be able to provide the team? Doesn’t sound like responsible drafting to me or wise use of the salary cap.

No one has said or suggested this abysmal, historically bad season is the sole result of poor cap management. There are also the drafting failures of the front office, bad coaching and inferior talent components that has this team at 0-12 and counting.

But lets not forget that a number of those number 1 picks were closer to 2nd round picks since the Colts on average have been drafting in the bottom parts of the drafts for how long?