A Different Approch To This Draft.

[fvantagio]

Thought i would change up the topic from the usual Andrew Luck threads. I'm curious on peoples opinion for not drafting a QB at all this year. Instead we trade the number one pick and use every pick we got for an immediate contributor on this team. We would sign Painter to a backup role for next year. I know Painter hasn't been able to win a game for us this year. But do you think he would have won some if we had a top 15 defense and run game? just some food for thought. I believe he could take us to a 5-11 type record under those circumstances if not better. Obviously not to successful but hopefully Manning wont be missing long periods of time like this again. This would allow the Colts to build to win now and with a successful draft could be legit contenders. Now the following draft we would have the 2 1st rounders from the Luck trade, and that is where we would grab our QB for the future Since we would have less holes to fill. Aaron Murray looks like a star in the making but there are a few other quality sophomore Qbs out there as well. The colts could grab him or one of the others in the first. The colts have so many holes right now that even with Luck they wouldn't win to many games, especially since he is a rookie used to playing behind a great Oline. Again just some food for thought, everyone seems to think a QB this year is a must. Im just exploring different options. what yall think?

[CR91]

if you watched any colts game this season you would see the defense does a much better job then the offense

[Ramblinwreck7]

if you watched any colts game this season you would see the defense does a much better job then the offense

Ha... the offense may be horrible at times, but there are games this season that the defense has lost. We are very bad right now on defense.

[Ramblinwreck7]

Thought i would change up the topic from the usual Andrew Luck threads. I'm curious on peoples opinion for not drafting a QB at all this year. Instead we trade the number one pick and use every pick we got for an immediate contributor on this team. We would sign Painter to a backup role for next year. I know Painter hasn't been able to win a game for us this year. But do you think he would have won some if we had a top 15 defense and run game? just some food for thought. I believe he could take us to a 5-11 type record under those circumstances if not better. Obviously not to successful but hopefully Manning wont be missing long periods of time like this again. This would allow the Colts to build to win now and with a successful draft could be legit contenders. Now the following draft we would have the 2 1st rounders from the Luck trade, and that is where we would grab our QB for the future Since we would have less holes to fill. Aaron Murray looks like a star in the making but there are a few other quality sophomore Qbs out there as well. The colts could grab him or one of the others in the first. The colts have so many holes right now that even with Luck they wouldn't win to many games, especially since he is a rookie used to playing behind a great Oline. Again just some food for thought, everyone seems to think a QB this year is a must. Im just exploring different options. what yall think?

That is what I would do. I wouldn't draft a quarterback when Peyton has 4 years left on his contract. I'd fix this team and build a great defense and offense first, then I would draft a quarterback sometime in the next 5 years. It depends on when Peyton wants to retire, and I don't want him to have any regrets of leaving the NFL too early.

[BmoreColt]

@Ramblin +1!!!!!!!!!!

[Jason_]

Agree with the OP and Ramblin and will add that if we get a new coaching staff, or even just new OC and DC then the current talent would hopefully be utilized better than it currently is. I would also hope a more competent OC could tweak the offense to be better suited for Painter's skills than simply trying to keep running the Manning offense.

If Peyton does indeed make a full recovery then I'd like to see either a new OL coach or an OC who specializes in OL. We have quite a few young, talented players on the OL and after the 2012 draft I assume we'll have a couple more. We need someone who has a proven track record of coaching young OL to be successful quickly. This is one of the reasons I think we could at least consider Bill Callahan. He's currently the OL coach of NYJ. From what I can tell in reading up on him, his OL have typically allowed minimal sacks and a high ypc average for the RB which leads me to believe his OLs are very well coached. If true then he'd definitely be someone I'd consider to replace Clyde.

[Ramblinwreck7]

Agree with the OP and Ramblin and will add that if we get a new coaching staff, or even just new OC and DC then the current talent would hopefully be utilized better than it currently is. I would also hope a more competent OC could tweak the offense to be better suited for Painter's skills than simply trying to keep running the Manning offense.

If Peyton does indeed make a full recovery then I'd like to see either a new OL coach or an OC who specializes in OL. We have quite a few young, talented players on the OL and after the 2012 draft I assume we'll have a couple more. We need someone who has a proven track record of coaching young OL to be successful quickly. This is one of the reasons I think we could at least consider Bill Callahan. He's currently the OL coach of NYJ. From what I can tell in reading up on him, his OL have typically allowed minimal sacks and a high ypc average for the RB which leads me to believe his OLs are very well coached. If true then he'd definitely be someone I'd consider to replace Clyde.

The only offensive coordinator that I would ever want to coach Peyton Manning is Tom Moore. They created one of the best offenses in the NFL. He knows Manning better than anyone else in this league. He actually calls 3 plays into Manning and then Peyton chooses which one to run based off of what the defense is doing. I also would like to get a good O-line coach like you say. I think that Howard Mudd would love to coach our young guys because they are big and athletic.

And my vote for defensive coordinator right now is John Chavis. He's at LSU and I love his style of defense.

[Jason_]

The only offensive coordinator that I would ever want to coach Peyton Manning is Tom Moore. They created one of the best offenses in the NFL. He knows Manning better than anyone else in this league. He actually calls 3 plays into Manning and then Peyton chooses which one to run based off of what the defense is doing. I also would like to get a good O-line coach like you say. I think that Howard Mudd would love to coach our young guys because they are big and athletic.

And my vote for defensive coordinator right now is John Chavis. He's at LSU and I love his style of defense.

To the underlined part, that's why I prefer an offensive line specialist. He wouldn't have to coach Peyton or have much of anything to do with the passing game. He could focus on the OL and teach them how to pass block and help work on improving the running game.

As for Howard Mudd...I actually don't think he'd like to coach our guys because his zone blocking schemes rely on smaller, more athletic OLmen. It was after Mudd left that the Colts started going after bigger, stronger OL players because those aren't the types of players Mudd wanted to bring in. I know a lot of people liked Mudd but I was never a fan of all of the zone blocking schemes nor the smaller OL. I'd prefer bigger, stronger guys that can blow the defensive line off the LOS and open up running lanes.

[Ramblinwreck7]

To the underlined part, that's why I prefer an offensive line specialist. He wouldn't have to coach Peyton or have much of anything to do with the passing game. He could focus on the OL and teach them how to pass block and help work on improving the running game.

As for Howard Mudd...I actually don't think he'd like to coach our guys because his zone blocking schemes rely on smaller, more athletic OLmen. It was after Mudd left that the Colts started going after bigger, stronger OL players because those aren't the types of players Mudd wanted to bring in. I know a lot of people liked Mudd but I was never a fan of all of the zone blocking schemes nor the smaller OL. I'd prefer bigger, stronger guys that can blow the defensive line off the LOS and open up running lanes.

I'm pretty sure we still run zone blocking schemes on the O-line... Also, my point was Howard Mudd would love to coach those quicker guys you are talking about, but Anthony Castonzo and Benjamin Ijalana are quick AND big guys. ;) Mudd isn't opposed to having big offensive lineman, he's had them before. Tarik Glenn was a 6'5' 335 lb. beast at LT. Ryan Diem is 6'6" 320 lbs. It's just a matter of them being fast enough, and smaller guys are usually faster than the bigger ones. It's easier to find the combination of great size and athleticism when you draft them in the 1st and 2nd rounds!

Also, I still want a coach who has the ability to teach Manning and help him out on the field. I don't want Manning to be forced to run the entire offense with no help from an offensive coordinator. I think Tom Moore is that guy and I seriously want him back!

And what do you think of John Chavis?

[Jason_]

I'm pretty sure we still run zone blocking schemes on the O-line... Also, my point was Howard Mudd would love to coach those quicker guys you are talking about, but Anthony Castonzo and Benjamin Ijalana are quick AND big guys. ;) Mudd isn't opposed to having big offensive lineman, he's had them before. Tarik Glenn was a 6'5' 335 lb. beast at LT. Ryan Diem is 6'6" 320 lbs. It's just a matter of them being fast enough, and smaller guys are usually faster than the bigger ones. It's easier to find the combination of great size and athleticism when you draft them in the 1st and 2nd rounds!

Also, I still want a coach who has the ability to teach Manning and help him out on the field. I don't want Manning to be forced to run the entire offense with no help from an offensive coordinator. I think Tom Moore is that guy and I seriously want him back!

And what do you think of John Chavis?

That's why I want Brian Billick as HC.

[fvantagio]

Also, I still want a coach who has the ability to teach Manning and help him out on the field. I don't want Manning to be forced to run the entire offense with no help from an offensive coordinator.

I dont think Manning needs that anymore, in this stage of his career he is more then comfortable running the show offensively. I mean the 3 play thing was thrown out the window some years back, all Moore was really doing by the end of his career was suggesting what personnel to bring on the field for the drive based on the defense. The rest was Manning. Also i could care less about Howard Mudd at this point, the Oline has improved after he left and i see it continuing to do so. Simply draft some more quality players on the interior and we got a legit Oline. We need help defensively bad. Wouldn't mind Billick as Jason suggested but as of right now i am all for Mike Zimmer. The Bengals have had one of the better defenses in the league the past couple of years and i think that is directly contributed to him. Plus hearing the players talk about him you can tell they love to play for him. I also talked to several Bengal fans at most of them said they wanted Zimmer to replace Lewis before he got his extension.

[amcnick]

Hey guys, a little bit off topic here but my friend and I had a heated debate yesterday about how Bill Polian drafts. I said he generally takes the best player available regardless of round, and of course will sometimes look to fill a need with a pick, but generally (at least 51% of the time) will look for the BPA. He said that no GM in the NFL will take the BPA over a need in any round after the second, even ones that call themselves BPA GMs like Bill Polian. Can anybody come up with some examples that shows that Bill Polian does generally take the BPA even after the second round? I'm sure there are a ton.

[Jason_]

Hey guys, a little bit off topic here but my friend and I had a heated debate yesterday about how Bill Polian drafts. I said he generally takes the best player available regardless of round, and of course will sometimes look to fill a need with a pick, but generally (at least 51% of the time) will look for the BPA. He said that no GM in the NFL will take the BPA over a need in any round after the second, even ones that call themselves BPA GMs like Bill Polian. Can anybody come up with some examples that shows that Bill Polian does generally take the BPA even after the second round? I'm sure there are a ton.

answered here:

[chad72]

Tony Sporano was former OL coach for the Cowboys before Parcells brought him to the Dolphins as head coach.

Norv Turner for OC and Jack Del Rio for DC - would be pretty good, IMO. Then, put in a head coach everyone would respect - like a Jeff Fisher or Brian Billick.

[pacolts56]

Thought i would change up the topic from the usual Andrew Luck threads. I'm curious on peoples opinion for not drafting a QB at all this year. Instead we trade the number one pick and use every pick we got for an immediate contributor on this team. We would sign Painter to a backup role for next year. I know Painter hasn't been able to win a game for us this year. But do you think he would have won some if we had a top 15 defense and run game? just some food for thought. I believe he could take us to a 5-11 type record under those circumstances if not better. Obviously not to successful but hopefully Manning wont be missing long periods of time like this again. This would allow the Colts to build to win now and with a successful draft could be legit contenders. Now the following draft we would have the 2 1st rounders from the Luck trade, and that is where we would grab our QB for the future Since we would have less holes to fill. Aaron Murray looks like a star in the making but there are a few other quality sophomore Qbs out there as well. The colts could grab him or one of the others in the first. The colts have so many holes right now that even with Luck they wouldn't win to many games, especially since he is a rookie used to playing behind a great Oline. Again just some food for thought, everyone seems to think a QB this year is a must. Im just exploring different options. what yall think?

If Peyton is healthy and 100% recovered....I have no problem with trading down the #1 pick, but with presumably an extra 2nd round pick I'd be hard pressed to pass on Nick Foles from Arizona.

I'm sorry, but my comfort level with Curtis Painter is just about nil at this point and with Peyton's injury this season, I no longer believe that it is too soon to seek his eventual successor.

I also believe we should demand a high quality young starter at NT, CB or OG as part of any trade-down package because my comfort level with the Polian's drafting is a little shaky at this point too. And we have to factor in Peyton's time left even if he is healthy...we're talking 4 years at best IMO. Developing rookies doesn't happen overnight and at some point in the next 4 years, its entirely realistic that Peyton's skills could wane some. Basically....we'll be trying to thread a needle with this situation of Peyton's effective time left and building the team around him. Some of the bad performance has been due to his absence....but some of it is because the players we have just suck, and that needs to be corrected as quickly as possible. We can't rely on rookies for all of that.

Also....with the outcome of coaching situation being anyone's guess but in all likelihood getting resolved soon after the season ends....we should know what "type" of player at those positions would suit the existing coaching staff or the incoming (I hope) coaching staff, and then pursue an opportunity to fill that need with an top-shelf established young starter as part of the trade-down.

We have to be mindful that if we trade that #1 pick....whether anyone wants to admit it or not....it could wind up being historically stupid if Luck proves his doubters wrong and lives up to the hype. And I'd feel better knowing that we at least got a Pro Bowl level player and truly settled a need out of the deal.