Richard Sherman wins the Madden cover vote

[Superman]

I did and why I asked you.

Thanks for the explanation.

I'm not sure what else there is to say. If you don't understand why I say his actions affect other people based on my previous posts, then I don't think anything else I could say would help.

So, you're welcome.

[Superman]

I think it is pretty clear we have both laid out our opinions on all of this so far. So we are both resorting to little at this point. You think it means more then I did. And my stance is that what he did was not a big deal but people MADE a bigger deal of it then they should have. As if Sherman after winning the title game was supposed to be thinking of how what he said was going to effect an entire community of blacks and the perception of anyone. If that is actually the case then we have not made nearly the progress in this country that people like to think we have if an emotional and overall meaningless outburst following a big game really makes that much of a difference to sway public opinions.

 

If a white man had an outburst people IMO would not judge him so harshly and I truly believe this. Women and minorities will always have a tougher time, period. The progressions and evolution in this society has become a farce when these types of things to me become so widely scrutinized and even used by the mainstream media at times.

 

But, overall I have enjoyed the discussion. But, I do think we have to walk on egg shells at times in society because everyone is overly judged by the way they look and talk and appear...

 

We are just mere human beings at times too. We cannot always be perfect. And at times I don't consider athletes role models since they are very imperfect people. They get arrested, they take drugs, they say stupid stuff and sometimes they abuse women. And heck they get paid big bucks just to play a game. It all can be a mess if we decide these are our role models in society at times.

 

We agree that this incident was overblown by the media. And I don't think society has progressed as much as some like to believe. A lot has changed for the better, systemically, but on a personal level, prejudices and stereotypes still exist and influence interactions and opinions. Sometimes, this is minor; other times, not so minor.

 

As for Sherman, I do think the way he looks influences the way he was judged. Just to reiterate, I'm not judging him based on how he acted in that instance. I know there's more to him than that. That's kind of what bothers me. He could take greater care with the way he portrays himself, that way a guy who worked his way out of Compton and graduated from a great school with a great GPA is viewed as a positive example, rather than being unfairly accused of being something he's not.

 

I also agree that athletes and celebrities shouldn't necessarily be considered role models. Like everyone else, they are imperfect, and sometimes do stupid things. 

 

I wanted to voice my opinion because, too often, this kind of stuff is reduced to platitudes and soundbites, and that doesn't do anyone any good. As insightful as some of the talking heads can be (on occasion), you can't do justice to a topic like this without back and forth. So thanks for putting up with me, and thanks for sharing your thoughts as well.

[amfootball]

We agree that this incident was overblown by the media. And I don't think society has progressed as much as some like to believe. A lot has changed for the better, systemically, but on a personal level, prejudices and stereotypes still exist and influence interactions and opinions. Sometimes, this is minor; other times, not so minor.

 

As for Sherman, I do think the way he looks influences the way he was judged. Just to reiterate, I'm not judging him based on how he acted in that instance. I know there's more to him than that. That's kind of what bothers me. He could take greater care with the way he portrays himself, that way a guy who worked his way out of Compton and graduated from a great school with a great GPA is viewed as a positive example, rather than being unfairly accused of being something he's not.

 

I also agree that athletes and celebrities shouldn't necessarily be considered role models. Like everyone else, they are imperfect, and sometimes do stupid things. 

 

I wanted to voice my opinion because, too often, this kind of stuff is reduced to platitudes and soundbites, and that doesn't do anyone any good. As insightful as some of the talking heads can be (on occasion), you can't do justice to a topic like this without back and forth. So thanks for putting up with me, and thanks for sharing your thoughts as well.

Question for you to the bolded part - do you think education changes someone character?

[Superman]

Question for you to the bolded part - do you think education changes someone character?

 

I don't know...

 

I think experiences influence character and personality, and that includes education.

[amfootball]

I don't know...

 

I think experiences influence character and personality, and that includes education.

Yeah, I am not sure education does anything more than institute knowledge. One's upbringing, surroundings and faith (if faith was imparted) do more to shape character then textbooks. My point being that while Sherman may have beaten the odds given where he grew up, he has not necessarily shed his influences. I think there is a strong pull for athletes to remain true to their neighborhoods which is probably why Sherman is so brash and vocal. In reality we are all mixed bag to begin with so I am not so sure that they way he acted after the NFCCG is that far from who he really is. I am not saying he is bad guy as who knows what he does in his private life. I thought Hernandez seemed liked a good guy as well. But I think we tend to look at Sherman's schooling and GPA and think that somehow makes him intelligent beyond just the classroom. I don't think the two necessarily correlate. 

[Superman]

Yeah, I am not sure education does anything more than institute knowledge. One's upbringing, surroundings and faith (if faith was imparted) do more to shape character then textbooks. My point being that while Sherman may have beaten the odds given where he grew up, he has not necessarily shed his influences. I think there is a strong pull for athletes to remain true to their neighborhoods which is probably why Sherman is so brash and vocal. In reality we are all mixed bag to begin with so I am not so sure that they way he acted after the NFCCG is that far from who he really is. I am not saying he is bad guy as who knows what he does in his private life. I thought Hernandez seemed liked a good guy as well. But I think we tend to look at Sherman's schooling and GPA and think that somehow makes him intelligent beyond just the classroom. I don't think the two necessarily correlate. 

 

If, by education, you mean learning from books, then I guess I agree with you. But I was thinking of education as meaning the entire school experience, not just sitting in a classroom for a couple hours. And like I said, experiences shape who you are, especially what you experience as a young person.

 

As for Sherman, he had to reject a lot of influences just to graduate high school, not to mention to be academically eligible to go to Stanford. Shows determination and discipline, and that continued through college. Classroom knowledge doesn't necessarily translate into real world knowledge, but it says something -- to me -- that Sherman did a good job in school.

[amfootball]

If, by education, you mean learning from books, then I guess I agree with you. But I was thinking of education as meaning the entire school experience, not just sitting in a classroom for a couple hours. And like I said, experiences shape who you are, especially what you experience as a young person.

 

As for Sherman, he had to reject a lot of influences just to graduate high school, not to mention to be academically eligible to go to Stanford. Shows determination and discipline, and that continued through college. Classroom knowledge doesn't necessarily translate into real world knowledge, but it says something -- to me -- that Sherman did a good job in school.

Yeah, I agree that education has the social aspect but by 18 you are pretty much shaped. I think going to school and graduating shows a certain type of discipline but he was there to play football as well and go to the NFL. I saw those same things in Hernandez too. He played with Tebow at a top football school, came out and made an immediate impact on the Pats who are notorious for having a complex system for receivers/TEs to pick up. I think, like I said, there are many sides to people. And of course we only see the public Sherman which may just be a PR mirage or a combo of who he is in real life. He has beaten many odds coming out of where he has and I just don't think those things are easily subtracted out of someone. So I guess my main point is what we saw out of him after the NFCCG is not necessarily foreign to who he is just because he got good grades in a good school and can articulate himself well.

[Shane Bond]

I'm not sure what else there is to say. If you don't understand why I say his actions affect other people based on my previous posts, then I don't think anything else I could say would help.

So, you're welcome.

It's quite easy to sit here and have a go at people's personality.

That's the same personality which made him who he is today. Refuse to back down for his rights and being righteous.

He came from a not so good neighborhood. Went to Stanford. Richest CB. SB champion.

He needed to have that aggressive mentality to overcome odds to do what he had to.

I really don't know many who went to Stanford against all odds and to top that is very successful in what he does.

We miss all that and sit here and nitpick. More power to you.

[amfootball]

It's quite easy to sit here and have a go at people's personality.

That's the same personality which made him who he is today. Refuse to back down for his rights and being righteous.

He came from a not so good neighborhood. Went to Stanford. Richest CB. SB champion.

He needed to have that aggressive mentality to overcome odds to do what he had to.

I really don't know many who went to Stanford against all odds and to top that is very successful in what he does.

We miss all that and sit here and nitpick. More power to you.

Not everyone believes the ends justify the means. Poor behavior even it one is successful does not justify the behavior.

[NFLfan]

It's quite easy to sit here and have a go at people's personality.

That's the same personality which made him who he is today. Refuse to back down for his rights and being righteous.

He came from a not so good neighborhood. Went to Stanford. Richest CB. SB champion.

He needed to have that aggressive mentality to overcome odds to do what he had to.

I really don't know many who went to Stanford against all odds and to top that is very successful in what he does.

We miss all that and sit here and nitpick. More power to you.

What no one has mentioned is that had Sherman not gone on that ill-advised rant, most fans would have never learned about his academic achievements and what he had to overcome to be who he is today. I am not condoning his behavior -- in fact, I agree with Superman that the way Sherman presents himself impacts how others are perceived. I feel the same way about Suh who comes off as such an intelligent guy off the field but because of his in-game antics, people do not associate intelligence with him. I really don't feel comfortable with my thinking this way, but it is slowly changing.

Anyway, I do appreciate where you are coming from. I think we can all keep an open mind and try to respect each others' point of view. (I am not directing this last sentence at you, but at everyone, including myself.)

[Shane Bond]

Not everyone believes the ends justify the means. Poor behavior even it one is successful does not justify the behavior.

Sure It's great not everyone believes the way some do here.

He got paid handsomely. Good for him. Whiners continue to whine. He will enjoy his dollar bills.

[amfootball]

Sure It's great not everyone believes the way some do here.

He got paid handsomely. Good for him. Whiners continue to whine. He will enjoy his dollar bills.

Yeah, I think he is a polarizing figure for many reasons. I don't think he is everyone's cup of tea but then again who is? ;)

[Superman]

It's quite easy to sit here and have a go at people's personality.

That's the same personality which made him who he is today. Refuse to back down for his rights and being righteous.

He came from a not so good neighborhood. Went to Stanford. Richest CB. SB champion.

He needed to have that aggressive mentality to overcome odds to do what he had to.

I really don't know many who went to Stanford against all odds and to top that is very successful in what he does.

We miss all that and sit here and nitpick. More power to you.

 

When did I 'have a go at Sherman's personality'?

 

You obviously didn't read my other posts. I've acknowledged Sherman's background several times.

 

Also, just because you have a right to act a certain way doesn't mean you should. A person's right to do something doesn't include a right to not be criticized.

[Superman]

Yeah, I agree that education has the social aspect but by 18 you are pretty much shaped. I think going to school and graduating shows a certain type of discipline but he was there to play football as well and go to the NFL. I saw those same things in Hernandez too. He played with Tebow at a top football school, came out and made an immediate impact on the Pats who are notorious for having a complex system for receivers/TEs to pick up. I think, like I said, there are many sides to people. And of course we only see the public Sherman which may just be a PR mirage or a combo of who he is in real life. He has beaten many odds coming out of where he has and I just don't think those things are easily subtracted out of someone. So I guess my main point is what we saw out of him after the NFCCG is not necessarily foreign to who he is just because he got good grades in a good school and can articulate himself well.

 

You think a person is "pretty much shaped" by 18? I disagree, very much so. Especially if a person moves 400 miles away from everyone and everything he's ever known and spends the next four years exposing himself to new things and new people. 

 

What we saw from him in his outburst isn't necessarily foreign to who he is. But we've seen many facets of his personality, and while some of it is aggressive and confrontational, he has also shown himself to be deeply thoughtful, displaying lots of perspective on the world.

 

I also think there are many differences between Richard Sherman and Aaron Hernandez. I don't think it's a good comparison, given that Hernandez had a history of attitude issues, drug history, etc., before he was drafted. As far as I know, Sherman didn't have the checkered past Hernandez did.

[amfootball]

You think a person is "pretty much shaped" by 18? I disagree, very much so. Especially if a person moves 400 miles away from everyone and everything he's ever known and spends the next four years exposing himself to new things and new people. 

 

What we saw from him in his outburst isn't necessarily foreign to who he is. But we've seen many facets of his personality, and while some of it is aggressive and confrontational, he has also shown himself to be deeply thoughtful, displaying lots of perspective on the world.

 

I also think there are many differences between Richard Sherman and Aaron Hernandez. I don't think it's a good comparison, given that Hernandez had a history of attitude issues, drug history, etc., before he was drafted. As far as I know, Sherman didn't have the checkered past Hernandez did.

I think character is largely shaped by 18. People continue to develop their whole life but family and upbringing play the biggest role. I just don't see school as that big of a factor given he was there to play football and go to the NFL. My beef here is people saying Sherman should know better because he is a smart guy because he did well at Standford. I don't see the two as connected or a reason to believe someone should act differently than who they are just because they were able to get good grades. Being disciplined and being of good character are two separate things. I also think he learned an awful lot from the NFCCG game and has taken measures since then to better present himself at times.

 

I agree about Hernandez and I wasn't comparing him directly to Sherman but more using him as an example of a guy that also showed a lot of discipline in his life at the collegiate level and then at the pro level and was also articulate. And while he did have his skirmishes there was never any reason to believe he was a murderer. My point here is that we really don't know these guys and I think there is an awful lot of Compton in Sherman despite his successes.

[Superman]

I think character is largely shaped by 18. People continue to develop their whole life but family and upbringing play the biggest role. I just don't see school as that big of a factor given he was there to play football and go to the NFL. My beef here is people saying Sherman should know better because he is a smart guy because he did well at Standford. I don't see the two as connected or a reason to believe someone should act differently than who they are just because they were able to get good grades. Being disciplined and being of good character are two separate things. I also think he learned an awful lot from the NFCCG game and has taken measures since then to better present himself at times.

 

I agree about Hernandez and I wasn't comparing him directly to Sherman but more using him as an example of a guy that also showed a lot of discipline in his life at the collegiate level and then at the pro level and was also articulate. And while he did have his skirmishes there was never any reason to believe he was a murderer. My point here is that we really don't know these guys and I think there is an awful lot of Compton in Sherman despite his successes.

 

Show me a person whose character is shaped by 18 years old, and I'll show you a stubborn person. (That's my own personal proverb; just made it up.)

 

Like I said, we disagree there. I don't want to go too deep into all that.

 

On Sherman, he showed a lot more interest in school than just going to the NFL. That's why he went to Stanford in the first place, when he could have gone to USC and played for Pete Carroll, someone he had a relationship with already. He chose Stanford partly to make a point.

 

I'm not saying he should know better just because he went to Stanford. I'm saying I think he DOES know better, based on a lot of the things I've read about him, heard him say or write, etc. Him going to Stanford is part of the picture, not the whole picture.

 

And your comment about there being an awful lot of Compton in Sherman illustrates perfectly why his outburst bothers me. On the biggest stage he'd ever been on, he showed his audience the prototypical black kid out of Compton, when in reality, he's not the prototypical black kid out of Compton, despite how his background has shaped his character. He reinforced the old "you can take the boy out the hood..." saying, and that's too bad.

[Shane Bond]

When did I 'have a go at Sherman's personality'?

 

You obviously didn't read my other posts. I've acknowledged Sherman's background several times.

 

Also, just because you have a right to act a certain way doesn't mean you should. A person's right to do something doesn't include a right to not be criticized.

The fact that you are discussing about his behaviour is enough.

 

My point along the way is simple. I dont see anything wrong with what he did. There are way too many positives about this guy to talk than negatives. We know and watch Richard Sherman for football reasons. I think he does ok there. 

 

And for his post game speech, he was provoked and he responded the way he did through out his life. I have never seen Sherman talk bad about anyone by himself. Show me an example.

[amfootball]

Show me a person whose character is shaped by 18 years old, and I'll show you a stubborn person. (That's my own personal proverb; just made it up.)

 

Like I said, we disagree there. I don't want to go too deep into all that.

 

On Sherman, he showed a lot more interest in school than just going to the NFL. That's why he went to Stanford in the first place, when he could have gone to USC and played for Pete Carroll, someone he had a relationship with already. He chose Stanford partly to make a point.

 

I'm not saying he should know better just because he went to Stanford. I'm saying I think he DOES know better, based on a lot of the things I've read about him, heard him say or write, etc. Him going to Stanford is part of the picture, not the whole picture.

 

And your comment about there being an awful lot of Compton in Sherman illustrates perfectly why his outburst bothers me. On the biggest stage he'd ever been on, he showed his audience the prototypical black kid out of Compton, when in reality, he's not the prototypical black kid out of Compton, despite how his background has shaped his character. He reinforced the old "you can take the boy out the hood..." saying, and that's too bad.

I am not saying school had no effect or that Sherman does not seem like a bright guy. I just get tired of people always trotting out the Stanford degree and GPA like that somehow should make him a great person. BTW, I am not saying that you do this. Education is a great thing but upbringing and environment influences a person more. There is a ton of data in support of this. And that is not to say people can't rise about their upbringings but they are never really subtracted out either.

 

I am with you on how he portrays himself. I did not like the NFCCG outburst or the fact that he showed up Brady or got into Twitter battles with Revis. He lacks humility and the "I am the greatest CB" gets old and tired for everyone. But I will say in fairness to him, he is only 26 and he has had so much success so young that perhaps he is reeling a bit. He did change his tune quite a bit leading up to the SB which I thought was good. I think Carroll did get a hold of him like you suggested someone should and he did listen. At least in my view anyways.