I'm Beginning To Like Painter As Manning's Permanent Backup

[coltfaninnewyork]

NOT with this team, he wouldn't. The special teams alone would tank at least 3 games. Our Defense minus hayden, Tryon and Tommie Harris would tank another 4 games. We'd be 7-9 or 9-7.

You can't prove that,till peyton proves he can't do it ,your theory is wrong.

[mightisright]

Being up 17 points against a BAD team and still losing pretty much proves my theory isn't far off

[mightisright]

Peyton said it himself once: "I can't play defense"

[oldunclemark]

NOT with this team, he wouldn't. The special teams alone would tank at least 3 games. Our Defense minus hayden, Tryon and Tommie Harris would tank another 4 games. We'd be 7-9 or 9-7.

We'd be 6-2 with Peyton right now..

..but Painter has been OK for an average guy...

I was grateful for his effort today...usually he fades in the 2nd half..

..you can tell he'd really like to win at least one game this year..

[coltfaninnewyork]

I never thought I'd say this but I'm beginning to like Painter as Manning's backup as long as Manning is back next year. He's starting to show me some real talent and swagger. He showed pocket presence, he ran well. He made good judgements about their defense. He did everything he could to put that game on his back. I'm not saying he should be our franchise QB when Peyton is gone but he's going to develop by the end of this year into a solid backup. We just need the oline to keep him upright long enough to throw the ball.

I bet you think obama has done a good job as well.

[oldunclemark]

I bet you think obama has done a good job as well.

ask somebody who works for Chrysler that question. :shh:

[mightisright]

He ran for 79 yards! Thew for 250 yards! He didn't hold the receivers, tip the passes, or call the stupid bubble screens to the five yard line on 3rd and goal. I'm not saying there isn't a lot of room for improvement. But he is steadily improving. He's not the problem. Certainly not our worst problem!

[johnelle]

Agreed. The REX RYAN (or the Ravens coach) would give his left nut to get Manning because they'd have 3 rings in a row guaranteed.

[Malakai432]

Apparently Caldwell says that he is, "still seeing progresss.".

[England Colt]

26 completions for less than 250 yards tell you everything you need to know! He's simply not good enough!

A lot of his passing yards are due to the skill of our recievers also! He dumps the ball off to recievers with stupidly short passes and makes them work for yards!

[Blue Horseshoe]

NOT with this team, he wouldn't. The special teams alone would tank at least 3 games. Our Defense minus hayden, Tryon and Tommie Harris would tank another 4 games. We'd be 7-9 or 9-7.

This is no different than they ever have been. Manning covers up this mess week after week.

[Smitto]

26 completions for less than 250 yards tell you everything you need to know! He's simply not good enough!

A lot of his passing yards are due to the skill of our recievers also! He dumps the ball off to recievers with stupidly short passes and makes them work for yards!

Really and thats his fault? did you actually watch the game? most of those completions were short quick passes... it was the game plan obviously to throw those short passes, the colts receivers never ran any complicated routes which explains why the receivers were covered so well... the colts seem out matched in every game because they arent being put in the position to win their games and because of mistakes... you can also add lack of talent on defense as well.

[England Colt]

Really and thats his fault? did you actually watch the game? most of those completions were short quick passes... it was the game plan obviously to throw those short passes, the colts receivers never ran any complicated routes which explains why the receivers were covered so well... the colts seem out matched in every game because they arent being put in the position to win their games and because of mistakes... you can also add lack of talent on defense as well.

I did watch the game yes, and it's the same problem every week.

Against Tampa everyone went mental about how well Painter played, actually if you think back, the long plays were down to the skill of Garcon, not Painter!

Teams have now worked out that he's only ever going to throw these short passes and he's unable to complete anything long with any accuracy, meaning that we offer very little on offence.

[Smitto]

I did watch the game yes, and it's the same problem every week.

Against Tampa everyone went mental about how well Painter played, actually if you think back, the long plays were down to the skill of Garcon, not Painter!

Teams have now worked out that he's only ever going to throw these short passes and he's unable to complete anything long with any accuracy, meaning that we offer very little on offence.

With that said im not gonna even bother trying to continue this cause you obviously dont know what you are talking about... lets just forget the long passes to garcon, of the 15+ out routes to reggie wayne on the side line... lol smh, with every game painter is getting more confident and with every game the colts are letting him take the reigns a bit that is evident with how many passes he threw...

[England Colt]

With that said im not gonna even bother trying to continue this cause you obviously dont know what you are talking about... lets just forget the long passes to garcon, of the 15+ out routes to reggie wayne on the side line... lol smh, with every game painter is getting more confident and with every game the colts are letting him take the reigns a bit that is evident with how many passes he threw...

His pass completion percentage is just over half, like I said, not good enough!

[bluefan]

I like the idea of keeping Painter and drafting someone else besides a quarterback who can help us now, instead of later.

[FireJimCaldwell]

The following #'s do not include yesterday.

He's not very accurate to say the least.

Completing less than 70% when throwing behind the line of scrimmage. That is really low.

1/6 when throwing over 31 yards and the one completion was in between 31-40, it is not like it was a bomb. The majority of his longer passing plays have been short passes(less than 10 yards) with moves and cuts by the receivers.

Running the bulk of our offense 1-20 yard throws he's barely 50% 44/83

Part of the problem is that Caldwell expects him to be Peyton and the offense hasn't changed as much as it has needed to, to be able to accommodate a quarterback with Painter's abilities. He doesn't have Manning's skill set, he doesn't have Manning's pocket presence, he doesn't have Manning's knowledge of the offense so we should have shifted into an offense that attempted to capitalize on his strengths.

We should have an offense that resembles Houston's more than we do Indy. Running the Boot-action/play-action and actually running the ball more.

Years Rushes Plays Rush %
2005-2007 1350 3031 44.5%
2008-2010 1129 3037 37.2%
2011  180   465 38.7%

We should be more inline with the ratio of the 05-07 offense as opposed to the 08-10 with an inexperienced running back. The coaching staff is not putting him in the best situation to succeed. If we ran more boot-action, then we could take advantage of mobility(one of a very few attributes in which he is better than Manning), and get him out on the edge. The stretch play and play-action should at least be looked at with Painter. After Manning's knee issue we have abandoned it, and that could be due to a slower Manning paired with a weaker offensive line in recent years.

Painter has played better than I expected early on. He's likely now where he will remain. They have tape/tendencies on him and good coaches will work to take that away.

If we had a competent coaching staff they should easily see that Painter isn't on the same level as Manning and they shouldn't have him attempting to run offense in the same manner. But yet we have Caldwell & Christensen. What should we really expect? Rhetorical question for those of you keeping score at home.

http://sportsillustr...ing_splits.html

Edited October 31, 2011 by firejimcaldwell

[Smitto]

His pass completion percentage is just over half, like I said, not good enough!

Some of that is due to receivers dropping balls... he gets the ball to his receivers and thats what counts... the team has had peyton in the back field for how many years and having a new QB back there definitely is showing.. painter is only gonna get better

[dn4192]

I never thought I'd say this but I'm beginning to like Painter as Manning's backup as long as Manning is back next year. He's starting to show me some real talent and swagger. He showed pocket presence, he ran well. He made good judgements about their defense. He did everything he could to put that game on his back. I'm not saying he should be our franchise QB when Peyton is gone but he's going to develop by the end of this year into a solid backup. We just need the oline to keep him upright long enough to throw the ball.

We must have been watching different games. Painter is not an NFL quality QB. He is a nice guy, but not even backup material. Now part of it is his situation, but he just doesn't have what it takes to be successful in my eyes.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Some of that is due to receivers dropping balls... he gets the ball to his receivers and thats what counts... the team has had peyton in the back field for how many years and having a new QB back there definitely is showing.. painter is only gonna get better

If he actually got the ball to the receivers his cmp% would be in the mid 60's. He's had 7 drops(entering yesterday), so even if he had 3 yesterday(not likely), those 10 additional catches would barely put him over 60 at all. As teams continue to game plan around his tendencies, his numbers will level off. I don't see him as an adequate back up. Garbage time back up sure, but if he's called up on to lead a team to victory, I haven't seen that yet.

[mightisright]

I did watch the game yes, and it's the same problem every week.

Against Tampa everyone went mental about how well Painter played, actually if you think back, the long plays were down to the skill of Garcon, not Painter!

Teams have now worked out that he's only ever going to throw these short passes and he's unable to complete anything long with any accuracy, meaning that we offer very little on offence.

He dumps off short passes because that's all our O-line gives him time to do. By the time our receivers get all the way downfield he's already been sacked

[Betty27_1]

He gets sacked by that time because he focuses on one receiver and one receiver only. He stands there waiting to see if that receiver is going to be open. And half the time he'll throw regardless if that receiver is open or if he's got 2 defenders hanging on him.

He's darn lucky he hasn't be intercepted more than what he has.

[KirkCousins#8]

Some of that is due to receivers dropping balls... he gets the ball to his receivers and thats what counts... the team has had peyton in the back field for how many years and having a new QB back there definitely is showing.. painter is only gonna get better

+1 again from me.He(painter)will only get better with more reps.And i'm shocked by the mike vick type legs!lol!He's got a set of wheels on him.Who knew........

[IndyTrav]

Imagine how many teams out there would love to have a backup QB who can air it out 4yds from the LOS like Painter can. Teams are lining up to sign this guy.

I'm not even entirely sure I want painter making the beeping noise when Peyton walks in reverse, let alone back him up on the football field.

[scorptile]

im sorry to say but if you guys havnt noticed this coaching staff hates painter they dont want him to succeed at all. when he messes up the coaching staff applauds him. they dont coach him to make him better they dont "gameplan" with him in mind, they never wanted him to play period that is why they signed collins in the first place. i think he could be a starter givin the right coaching, and gameplanning and look good at being a starter. this is the problem the coaching staff has given up on him before he even hit the field

[Peterk2011]

NOT with this team, he wouldn't. The special teams alone would tank at least 3 games. Our Defense minus hayden, Tryon and Tommie Harris would tank another 4 games. We'd be 7-9 or 9-7.

Watching us reach the plaoffs last year, I think there is no team that is bad enough for Manning to miss the playoffs. ;)

Besides, I believe this year's team is better than last year's - except Manning. (We've got Clark, Collie, Garcon, Addai back, plus Carter, and some promising rookies, etc. We suck because of our moral is low like our heads, not because we our roster is generally bad.)

[FireJimCaldwell]

im sorry to say but if you guys havnt noticed this coaching staff hates painter they dont want him to succeed at all. when he messes up the coaching staff applauds him. they dont coach him to make him better they dont "gameplan" with him in mind, they never wanted him to play period that is why they signed collins in the first place. i think he could be a starter givin the right coaching, and gameplanning and look good at being a starter. this is the problem the coaching staff has given up on him before he even hit the field

I don't think that they hate him, I don't think they are competent enough to see that Manning & Painter have different skill sets. They obviously aren't attempting to maximize his limited abilities. If they did, we would see some booth action like the Texans do with Schaub.

[JoKeR]

Come on Luck is on his way. No way Colts pick Painter over Luck. Painter is kind of exciting at times but he can't win games.

[manningstheman]

I like Painter. I just dont think he should be playing football. He looks like he should be surfing the waves in Cali.

[Smitto]

If he actually got the ball to the receivers his cmp% would be in the mid 60's. He's had 7 drops(entering yesterday), so even if he had 3 yesterday(not likely), those 10 additional catches would barely put him over 60 at all. As teams continue to game plan around his tendencies, his numbers will level off. I don't see him as an adequate back up. Garbage time back up sure, but if he's called up on to lead a team to victory, I haven't seen that yet.

What team? the colts dont have a team, they have a set of good players playing with a set of bad players in a bad scheme... its kinda hard to lead that when you dont know what you have at all.

[MAC]

Painter is already playing well enough to be a backup in this league, and continuing to improve. The problem with the offense is the line!

The big fear early on was that there would be endless sack/fumbles and bad interceptions because of Painter reacting badly to pressure. In actuality he has been handling the pressure about as well as anyone could have hoped for, but the coaching staff has such low expectations for the horrid patchwork offensive line (now down to 3rd string at LT, 4th string at RT, and I'd need an abacus to figure out the guard situation) that virtually every passing play is designed to get the ball out of Painters hands the millisecond that he completes his short drop-back. The last two opponents seem to have adjusted to this (not a surprise) and the offense has stalled accordingly.

The question I have is whether the Colts improvement in the second half against the Titans is a result of Richard coming in at left guard, Painter stepping it up, or the coaches making adjustments at half-time (the lack of which is something that many here have been complaining about all season).

Regardless, Painter in the second half showed an "anything to win" attitude and effort that normally would win fans over in droves. And I'm remembering four tipped passes (two leading to interceptions), four passes knocked out receivers hands, two miss-comunciations with Garcon, and an inordinate amount of bad calls going against the Colts. This was a bizarre game that could have easily gone the Colts way with Painter playing exactly the way that he did - well enough to win the game.

[JaseAiden23]

I think he is a good QB, but our playing calling and O line doesnt help him any. Painter has one of the best deep balls in the league. The guy throws one tight spiral and hes pretty accurate down the field. I just wish our coaching staff would realize that the guy plays alot looser when he throws a few down the field. He seems to tighten up when our play calling is for wr screens and 5yd passes. I say let this guy air it out more. But our play calling on both sides of the ball are terrible! I think its time to let Gonzo walk and Id like to see what David Gilreath can do, the guy has some skills and is quick as heck. Ive been a Painter supporter even when most of the people were blasting him on here since he became our backup. This guy has a hard enough job just backing up Peyton, let alone trying to throw with one jacked up O line. This staff fails to realize strengths and always follows protocol. This teams has no fire under its *!

[Jason_]

The following #'s do not include yesterday.

He's not very accurate to say the least.

Completing less than 70% when throwing behind the line of scrimmage. That is really low.

1/6 when throwing over 31 yards and the one completion was in between 31-40, it is not like it was a bomb. The majority of his longer passing plays have been short passes(less than 10 yards) with moves and cuts by the receivers.

You do realize that QBs can't throw the ball anywhere except for behind the line of scrimmage right? Cross the LOS+Throw the ball=penalty, Illegal forward pass.

Where are we getting that Painter must complete 70% or more of his passes? There are only 2 QBs completing 70% or more of their passes and they are Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. You said that if it weren't for the drops that Painter would be in the mid 60's...well that would put him somewhere between Tom Brady (67.6%), Eli Manning (64.7%), Phillip Rivers (64.7%) and Big Ben (64.4%)

I'm not trying to hail Painter as the next Peyton or anything like that, but some people have way too unrealistic expectations for a guy who:

-has only made 5 NFL starts

-is playing behind arguably the most patch-work offensive line in football

-is being asked to run the offense like Peyton does

-etc, etc

Edited October 31, 2011 by Jason

[FireJimCaldwell]

You do realize that QBs can't throw the ball anywhere except for behind the line of scrimmage right? Cross the LOS+Throw the ball=penalty, Illegal forward pass.

Where are we getting that Painter must complete 70% or more of his passes? There are only 2 QBs completing 70% or more of their passes and they are Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees. You said that if it weren't for the drops that Painter would be in the mid 60's...well that would put him somewhere between Tom Brady (67.6%), Eli Manning (64.7%), Phillip Rivers (64.7%) and Big Ben (64.4%)

I'm not trying to hail Painter as the next Peyton or anything like that, but some people have way too unrealistic expectations for a guy who:

-has only made 5 NFL starts

-is playing behind arguably the most patch-work offensive line in football

-is being asked to run the offense like Peyton does

-etc, etc

You do realize that when one says throwing a pass BLOS, it means the target is BLOS. Like a bubble screen in some cases or a swing to the back? I sure do hope so. Which is normally in the 80% range for a cmp %.

I said that if you added the drops(7) and if he were given credit for 3 drops it would put him right over 60%, not mid 60's big difference. That would place him right on the border of the top 20. Lower 50% in the league.

What is unrealistic is that some think that he's playing good. Better than expected, that's a given, but good, not quite. The biggest problem I see is that he is being asked to run the same offense, which is a coaching issue more than a Painter issue.

Edited October 31, 2011 by firejimcaldwell

[Jason_]

You do realize that when one says throwing a pass BLOS, it means the target is BLOS. Like a bubble screen in some cases or a swing to the back? I sure do hope so. Which is normally in the 80% range for a cmp %.

I said that if you added the drops(7) and if he were given credit for 3 drops it would put him right over 60%, not mid 60's big difference. That would place him right on the border of the top 20. Lower 50% in the league.

What is unrealistic is that some think that he's playing good. Better than expected, that's a given, but good, not quite. The biggest problem I see is that he is being asked to run the same offense, which is a coaching issue more than a Painter issue.

Based on some of the comments that I've seen I don't assume anything. You got me though...I simply misunderstood what you were saying and I apologize.

that said I still think that some people have unrealistic expectations of him and to say he's not even worthy of being a backup NFL QB is simply untrue. All things considered (patchwork offensive line, his inability to do the things at the LOS that Manning does, poor play calling) I think he's done what could be reasonably expected of him. I have a hard time believing it's his decision to throw the ball 49 times per game and only give the ball 9 times to your RB who's averaging over 5 ypc. Painter isn't to the point where he can lift the team on his shoulders and eek out a win but I don't put the blame entirely on him for this like some people are doing. He clearly still has a ways to go but it would certainly help if the OC wasn't calling a bubble screen every other play and he had a chance to setup and throw the ball.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Jason

[FireJimCaldwell]

Based on some of the comments that I've seen I don't assume anything. You got me though...I simply misunderstood what you were saying and I apologize.

that said I still think that some people have unrealistic expectations of him and to say he's not even worthy of being a backup NFL QB is simply untrue. All things considered (patchwork offensive line, his inability to do the things at the LOS that Manning does, poor play calling) I think he's done what could be reasonably expected of him. I have a hard time believing it's his decision to throw the ball 49 times per game and only give the ball 9 times to your RB who's averaging over 5 ypc. Painter isn't to the point where he can lift the team on his shoulders and eek out a win but I don't put the blame entirely on him for this like some people are doing. He clearly still has a ways to go but it would certainly help if the OC wasn't calling a bubble screen every other play and he had a chance to setup and throw the ball.

Since you added the smiley face, I couldn't tell if you were being serious or not so I felt I needed to point out what i meant by behind los.

You won't get an argument out of me that they aren't putting him in the best position to succeed. Again, a coaching issue and not a Painter issue. I feel he's done better than I expected him to do, but I'm not sure I would classify it as good. I wouldn't classify it as horrible as some have, but he has been a weakness more than he has been a strength.

There is no reason in the world for him to be throwing the ball more than Manning did from 2005 to 2007, or close to what Manning threw it from 2008 to 2010. I get that we have to throw while behind, and that he has thrown the ball nearly 4 times more while behind than he was with a lead, but we need a much more balanced attack without 18 in there.

[Jason_]

Since you added the smiley face, I couldn't tell if you were being serious or not so I felt I needed to point out what i meant by behind los.

That's fair...not everyone uses the same smileys in the same ways. To explain, I was being completely serious. I added the smiley to go along with the apology. If I use the standard smiley then I'm being 100% serious whereas the smiley is the one I typically use when not being serious or when being sarcastic.

When I first read your statement "Painter throwing beyond the LOS" I honestly thought you meant Painter going beyond the LOS and then throwing the ball. I completely acknowledge that makes very little sense, and the only thing I can say in my defense is that there are many posts by various members (I'm not in any way saying you) that make little to no sense.

[FireJimCaldwell]

That's fair...not everyone uses the same smileys in the same ways. To explain, I was being completely serious. I added the smiley to go along with the apology. If I use the standard smiley then I'm being 100% serious whereas the smiley is the one I typically use when not being serious or when being sarcastic.

When I first read your statement "Painter throwing beyond the LOS" I honestly thought you meant Painter going beyond the LOS and then throwing the ball. I completely acknowledge that makes very little sense, and the only thing I can say in my defense is that there are many posts by various members (I'm not in any way saying you) that make little to no sense.

I understand completely. There are some real fools around here, everywhere for that matter, and it takes some time to get a feel for some people. Throwing in front of the LOS would make zero sense, but that is on par with what a few others say. I thought you were making a joke about it being silly to throw beyond los which is why i added the "i hope so", but it's all good. jokes are allowed.

[Jason_]

You do realize that QBs can't throw the ball anywhere except for behind the line of scrimmage right? Cross the LOS+Throw the ball=penalty, Illegal forward pass.

Here I was making a joke based on the misunderstanding that I thought you meant running ahead of the LOS and then throwing the ball. That's why I apologized, for making the joke before clarifying what you meant. Others do it all the time and it drives me crazy, and here I dropped my guard and allowed myself to do the same thing. So again, for that I apologize.

I really hope Painter continues to improve. If he can keep from getting the INTs on tipped balls and go back to maintaining closer to a 5:2 TD to INT ratio and get his completion % up to 60-65% then there may be some value to him in the trade market. I know there are a lot of people who think there's no chance this could happen but I don't think the possibility is as remote as some think. Even with the 2 tipped passes that turned into INTs, his numbers were comparable to Matt Cassell and Kevin Kolb prior to them being traded. Add to that there will be at least 1 team that needs a day 1 starter at QB that will lose out on one of the top 3 QBs Luck, Barkley and Jones...and that's assuming all 3 declare for the draft. Once you get past Luck, Jones and Barkley, there's going to be much less certainty that the next group of QBs are ready to start day 1. Some teams that are in rebuilding mode may be fine with taking a guy who needs a year or 2 to develop, but there are a couple of teams that already have a more complete team that just needs an upgrade at QB. An interesting question....would Painter be an upgrade over Tony Romo?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Here I was making a joke based on the misunderstanding that I thought you meant running ahead of the LOS and then throwing the ball. That's why I apologized, for making the joke before clarifying what you meant. Others do it all the time and it drives me crazy, and here I dropped my guard and allowed myself to do the same thing. So again, for that I apologize.

I really hope Painter continues to improve. If he can keep from getting the INTs on tipped balls and go back to maintaining closer to a 5:2 TD to INT ratio and get his completion % up to 60-65% then there may be some value to him in the trade market. I know there are a lot of people who think there's no chance this could happen but I don't think the possibility is as remote as some think. Even with the 2 tipped passes that turned into INTs, his numbers were comparable to Matt Cassell and Kevin Kolb prior to them being traded. Add to that there will be at least 1 team that needs a day 1 starter at QB that will lose out on one of the top 3 QBs Luck, Barkley and Jones...and that's assuming all 3 declare for the draft. Once you get past Luck, Jones and Barkley, there's going to be much less certainty that the next group of QBs are ready to start day 1. Some teams that are in rebuilding mode may be fine with taking a guy who needs a year or 2 to develop, but there are a couple of teams that already have a more complete team that just needs an upgrade at QB. An interesting question....would Painter be an upgrade over Tony Romo?

No reason to apologize.

I think he's peaked for a while. Just based on teams having tape and tendencies on him. If he plays the rest of the season then there is some potential for growth. I'm not sure if he has any trade value or not. Most teams would just soon draft a 6th or 7th round qb and go from there for a back up.

Cassell had a full season under his belt so I don't think we can accurately compare #'s between the 2 yet. I never understood the love affair with Kolb, he has was okay in limited time, but he was also in a QB friendly system, as was Cassel for that matter.

No Painter would not be anywhere near an upgrade over Tony Romo. Not even close in my opinion. I'm not even sure if he would start anywhere else right now. Maybe Jacksonville, but they already have a young inexperienced QB they are trying to build with.