That's why he's the GOAT!

[amfootball]

Do i need to repeat everything?. Go read the posts.

 

Montana and Unitas have better case to be called GOAT than Brady. Their stats back them up as well.

 

Next time, try to respond with more class and avoid rude comments ( give it a try ).

Don't have time to read all them but I can probably guess. lol. ;)

 

Brady has the stats over Montana and he is the Unitas of the cap/FA era...

[Shane Bond]

Don't have time to read all them but I can probably guess. lol. ;)

 

Brady has the stats over Montana and he is the Unitas of the cap/FA era...

 

I should know better. My bad even commenting to your posts.

[amfootball]

I should know better. My bad even commenting to your posts.

Nice comeback.

[Shane Bond]

Nice comeback.

 

I wasnt kidding. I dont take cheap shots and and talk childish.

 

Like i said, my fault even commenting.

[amfootball]

I wasnt kidding. I dont take cheap shots and and talk childish.

 

Like i said, my fault even commenting.

What was cheap or childish?

[shecolt]

This might come as a surprise to you but those were some pretty darn good defenses. And the irony is strong considering Brady is 2-1 head to head against Manning in the playoffs. I'm not saying I agree with that logic. I'm just using your metric. As well as the whopping 3 points the 2004 Colts scored. See how flawed your logic is?

 

And, you have just earned another "Good grief, man!" from me.

 

You go from saying that Brady isn't responsible for the two SB losses anymore than Peyton is responsible for some playoff losses.

 

Then you post in another thread that Peyton is a perennial playoff choker.

 

And, now you're back to saying that you don't agree with that logic and calling someone else's logic flawed.

 

Do you even read some of the drivel you post or are you just hoping that Colt's fans are too stupid to catch your flip-flopping?

 

So, I guess your metric is that the irony only applies when Brady is the topic. 

[Shane Bond]

And, you have just earned another "Good grief, man!" from me.

 

You go from saying that Brady isn't responsible for the two SB losses anymore than Peyton is responsible for some playoff losses.

 

Then you post in another thread that Peyton is a perennial playoff choker.

 

And, now you're back to saying that you don't agree with that logic and calling someone else's logic flawed.

 

Do you even read some of the drivel you post or are you just hoping that Colt's fans are too stupid to catch your flip-flopping?

 

So, I guess your metric is that the irony only applies when Brady is the topic. 

 

This guy and amfootball, i have stopped commenting. Seems like just fooling around.

[GoPats]

There is no GOAT. Never has been, probably never will be.

 

BUT...

 

I often think of what the consensus would be on Brady's place in history if not for two plays:

 

1. The Tyree catch in 2008, which saved that game-winning drive...

 

2. The Welker drop in 2012 (not a perfect throw, I know, so let's not rehash that old conversation), which probably would have allowed the Pats to run out the clock...

 

Big "what if," I know. The Patriots won three SBs, in part because of a lot of luck, and lost two, also in part because of bad luck. There's such a fine line and a thin margin between winning and losing. These things have to haunt the guy a little... I mean, he's literally two plays away from having 5 rings. And those two plays, fair or not, impact his place in history. 

 

(And conversely, he's probably five or six plays away from having NO titles, so again, I understand this is a "what if" and it can go either way...)

[BadLuck]

Luck has had more of those drives than Brady has since entering the league. O and he's a 2nd year qb.. NBD

Pretty easy when teams go into prevent. "Bend but don't break" always makes QBs look better than they really are.

[amfootball]

There is no GOAT. Never has been, probably never will be.

 

BUT...

 

I often think of what the consensus would be on Brady's place in history if not for two plays:

 

1. The Tyree catch in 2008, which saved that game-winning drive...

 

2. The Welker drop in 2012 (not a perfect throw, I know, so let's not rehash that old conversation), which probably would have allowed the Pats to run out the clock...

 

Big "what if," I know. The Patriots won three SBs, in part because of a lot of luck, and lost two, also in part because of bad luck. There's such a fine line and a thin margin between winning and losing. These things have to haunt the guy a little... I mean, he's literally two plays away from having 5 rings. And those two plays, fair or not, impact his place in history. 

 

(And conversely, he's probably five or six plays away from having NO titles, so again, I understand this is a "what if" and it can go either way...)

SBs are part of the conversation for sure when looking at the GOAT and like you said Brady has 3 and two other appearances. He has also has the two league MVPs, two SB MVs, countless regular season records, most divisional titles and best regular season winning percentage and most post-season wins all-time. And of course he did all this during the cap/FA era where his team turned over its talent every 3-4 years. That is what separates him IMO. He has the rings AND the stats and the wins. I get that that there will never be a consensus on the GOAT but Brady makes the strongest case.

[GoPats]

SBs are part of the conversation for sure when looking at the GOAT and like you said Brady has 3 and two other appearances. He has also has the two league MVPs, two SB MVs, countless regular season records, most divisional titles and best regular season winning percentage and most post-season wins all-time. And of course he did all this during the cap/FA era where his team turned over its talent every 3-4 years. That is what separates him IMO. He has the rings AND the stats and the wins. I get that that there will never be a consensus on the GOAT but Brady makes the strongest case.

 

He's my personal GOAT of course (been a Patriots fan since I was a kid in the late 70s), so don't get me wrong. But I know so much of it is subjective. So I actually do agree with you... I think the combination of his personal stats and team accomplishments make him unique.

 

The winning is what seals it for me. Detractors will say over and over again that you can't attribute team accomplishments to an individual player, but in football, so much of it is about the quarterback. And when you win as many games as Brady has, for as long as he has... he's the only constant, except for Belichick. Not to discount a coach's contributions, but as Patriots fans you and I both know that it begins and ends with #12. All-time leader in winning percentage, playoff wins, etc. That's the point of playing the game, right? To win? 

[The Colts Walker]

I always felt that wins and playoff wins are SOMEWHAT misleading. I do take them into consideration, but I weight it less because it is a team game and Brady doesn't win games by himself. I think he runs a system that is very beneficial to him, many short routes and going deep a couple times a game when coverage is broken. I dont think he'd be as successful in transitioning teams as Peyton was. He is great no doubt, top 5/6 on my list, but by no means the GOAT. 

[Yehoodi]

Snowglobe, that isn't very nice calling your QB a goat.

 

its funny when I first heard this name being thrown around, I thought it was being used for the negative version, i.e. the player cost his team the game, as opposed greatest of all time version . . .

[Yehoodi]

There is no GOAT. Never has been, probably never will be.

 

BUT...

 

I often think of what the consensus would be on Brady's place in history if not for two plays:

 

1. The Tyree catch in 2008, which saved that game-winning drive...

 

2. The Welker drop in 2012 (not a perfect throw, I know, so let's not rehash that old conversation), which probably would have allowed the Pats to run out the clock...

 

Big "what if," I know. The Patriots won three SBs, in part because of a lot of luck, and lost two, also in part because of bad luck. There's such a fine line and a thin margin between winning and losing. These things have to haunt the guy a little... I mean, he's literally two plays away from having 5 rings. And those two plays, fair or not, impact his place in history. 

 

(And conversely, he's probably five or six plays away from having NO titles, so again, I understand this is a "what if" and it can go either way...)

 

I think somebody got into Braveheart's frig and had one or two of his Guinness . . . putting no titles in the same sentence as Brady is a no no . . .   . . .   . . . seriously though I do agree with you but would put the 2004 win as one where there really were not any bounces that would of effected our win . . . although we were a bounce or two of being one and done in 2001 and 2003 (Woodsen getting to Brady after he tucked it in 2001 and had Bennet pulled down the pass for TN and they punched in a TD 2003)  . . . but do agree with you on the two recent SBs, two plays and we have two more wins . . . but stepping back one can only expect to a coin to flip in their direction only half the time and if are on the brink of 4 SBs but for a flip of a coin, winning two is expected . . .

 

Of coarse I always think of how Brady's career would be viewed different had the four coins flipped the opposite way and we been one and done in 2001 and 2003 but were 19-0 in 07 and won in 11,  . . . no real AV history as he missed two FGs in SB 39 and we were one and done earlier, no "championship" defense as it really only win and was not as strong in '07, and we have two wins with the offense being the stronger relation on our team . . . so those 4 coins certainly have an effect on history . . .

 

whenever I look at GOAT and stuff I will look at the entire body of work and see what the person has done and just do not limit it to championships, but include in the discussion the near misses . . . . we can look at Manning history with the lose in '09 and what if the colts won in the regular season in 2003 and the AFFCG is in Indy, how are things different, and so on . . .

 

it can get to be a deep discussion at times . . . and at times tough to do on a forum board . . .

[amfootball]

He's my personal GOAT of course (been a Patriots fan since I was a kid in the late 70s), so don't get me wrong. But I know so much of it is subjective. So I actually do agree with you... I think the combination of his personal stats and team accomplishments make him unique.

 

The winning is what seals it for me. Detractors will say over and over again that you can't attribute team accomplishments to an individual player, but in football, so much of it is about the quarterback. And when you win as many games as Brady has, for as long as he has... he's the only constant, except for Belichick. Not to discount a coach's contributions, but as Patriots fans you and I both know that it begins and ends with #12. All-time leader in winning percentage, playoff wins, etc. That's the point of playing the game, right? To win? 

I know you think he is the GOAT and many non-Pats fans do as well given the reasons I just stated. It is about winning and like you said in the end with no #12 there is nothing here in Foxboro. He has as complete a resume as you could ask for to make the case. But in the end it is subjective.

[GoPats]

I think somebody got into Braveheart's frig and had one or two of his Guinness . . . putting no titles in the same sentence as Brady is a no no . . .   . . .   . . . seriously though I do agree with you but would put the 2004 win as one where there really were not any bounces that would of effected our win . . . although we were a bounce or two of being one and done in 2001 and 2003 (Woodsen getting to Brady after he tucked it in 2001 and had Bennet pulled down the pass for TN and they punched in a TD 2003)  . . . but do agree with you on the two recent SBs, two plays and we have two more wins . . . but stepping back one can only expect to a coin to flip in their direction only half the time and if are on the brink of 4 SBs but for a flip of a coin, winning two is expected . . .

 

Of coarse I always think of how Brady's career would be viewed different had the four coins flipped the opposite way and we been one and done in 2001 and 2003 but were 19-0 in 07 and won in 11,  . . . no real AV history as he missed two FGs in SB 39 and we were one and done earlier, no "championship" defense as it really only win and was not as strong in '07, and we have two wins with the offense being the stronger relation on our team . . . so those 4 coins certainly have an effect on history . . .

 

whenever I look at GOAT and stuff I will look at the entire body of work and see what the person has done and just do not limit it to championships, but include in the discussion the near misses . . . . we can look at Manning history with the lose in '09 and what if the colts won in the regular season in 2003 and the AFFCG is in Indy, how are things different, and so on . . .

 

it can get to be a deep discussion at times . . . and at times tough to do on a forum board . . .

 

Did you just accuse me of being Braveheart Colt?

 

I am equal parts amused and offended.  ;)

 

(Not really, he's a good guy, probably way better-lookin' than me too.)

[GoPats]

I know you think he is the GOAT and many non-Pats fans do as well given the reasons I just stated. It is about winning and like you said in the end with no #12 there is nothing here in Foxboro. He has as complete a resume as you could ask for to make the case. But in the end it is subjective.

 

Exactly AM. And that's why the "who's better" debate is always pointless... they like their guy, we like our guy, everyone wins!

[BadLuck]

How come nobody is talking about the refs? That's the real story of this game. Clearly wrong on the false start call and Bree's had called timeout, the playclock was at zero, yet the refs ignored all that and Bree's throws a pick because Graham pulls up lame.

[-JJ-]

There is no GOAT. Never has been, probably never will be.

 

BUT...

 

I often think of what the consensus would be on Brady's place in history if not for two plays:

 

1. The Tyree catch in 2008, which saved that game-winning drive...

 

2. The Welker drop in 2012 (not a perfect throw, I know, so let's not rehash that old conversation), which probably would have allowed the Pats to run out the clock...

 

Big "what if," I know. The Patriots won three SBs, in part because of a lot of luck, and lost two, also in part because of bad luck. There's such a fine line and a thin margin between winning and losing. These things have to haunt the guy a little... I mean, he's literally two plays away from having 5 rings. And those two plays, fair or not, impact his place in history. 

 

(And conversely, he's probably five or six plays away from having NO titles, so again, I understand this is a "what if" and it can go either way...)

How true. Which is why goat means nothing to me. Still don't know what it stands for. The only goat I know was when I visited my sister in CA and we went to a wild life farm and I have a picture of me holding a goat. Probably the same place Brady went lol.

 

Brady is great and I like watching him play. But when he retires..well he's gone. I still respect many QBs like Grogan but I really don't need goat status.

[amfootball]

How come nobody is talking about the refs? That's the real story of this game. Clearly wrong on the false start call and Bree's had called timeout, the playclock was at zero, yet the refs ignored all that and Bree's throws a pick because Graham pulls up lame.

Bad calls happen all the time. The real story of the game was Graham having zero catches even when Talib went out. I think we can put to rest that he is the best TE in the game. I would take Gonzo over him in a minute as well as an 80 percent Gronk. Also, the Saints only scoring 7 points in the first half and their D letting up 30 when they had not let up more than 17 in any game all season were much bigger factors than the refs.

[Dustin]

Bad calls happen all the time. The real story of the game was Graham having zero catches even when Talib went out. I think we can put to rest that he is the best TE in the game. I would take Gonzo over him in a minute as well as an 80 percent Gronk. Also, the Saints only scoring 7 points in the first half and their D letting up 30 when they had not let up more than 17 in any game all season were much bigger factors than the refs.

Graham isn't the best TE in the NFL because he's not a TE. He's a WR who sometimes lines up as a TE.

[amfootball]

Graham isn't the best TE in the NFL because he's not a TE. He's a WR who sometimes lines up as a TE.

His position is listed as TE.

[Dustin]

His position is listed as TE.

 

He's not a TE though.

[amfootball]

He's not a TE though.

In today's NFL players line up everywhere anyways. WRs are sometimes in the back field. His position is TE. That being said, didn't matter much where he was on Sunday, he was blanketed and got zero catches. I think his cache has dropped a bit.

[Dustin]

In today's NFL players line up everywhere anyways. WRs are sometimes in the back field. His position is TE. That being said, didn't matter much where he was on Sunday, he was blanketed and got zero catches. I think his cache has dropped a bit.

 

He plays 66% of his snaps at WR. I don't really care what he's listed at; he's a WR.

[amfootball]

He plays 66% of his snaps at WR. I don't really care what he's listed at; he's a WR.

You seem to be obsessed with this. Why?

[Dustin]

You seem to be obsessed with this. Why?

 

Obsessed about what? He's a WR. Not a TE. I was just correcting you.

[amfootball]

Obsessed about what? He's a WR. Not a TE. I was just correcting you.

ok. He is listed as a TE so you are incorrect regardless of where he lines up during any game. My point was that for one of the most feared skill positions guys in the game, TE/WR, whatever, he was shut down. Heck of a defensive performance by Pats D.

[Dustin]

ok. He is listed as a TE so you are incorrect regardless of where he lines up during any game. My point was that for one of the most feared skill positions guys in the game, TE/WR, whatever, he was shut down. Heck of a defensive performance by Pats D.

 

Nah I'm correct anyone who plays more than 2/3 of his snaps at WR is a WR. And yeah he was shutdown by Talib. That'd be a big blow to the Pats D is he's out for any extended amount of time. Especially with Mayo and Wilfork already on IR.

[amfootball]

Nah I'm correct anyone who plays more than 2/3 of his snaps at WR is a WR. And yeah he was shutdown by Talib. That'd be a big blow to the Pats D is he's out for any extended amount of time. Especially with Mayo and Wilfork already on IR.

Then why he is listed as a TE?

 

Talib has a hip flexer. Expected to miss maybe two weeks. Good news in light of Mayo.

[Dustin]

Then why he is listed as a TE?

 

He's listed as a TE for monetary reasons. Lower franchise tag and salary. Plus, he's their TE when they go to a one TE package. Which is very little. 

[GoColts8818]

No pats fan will ever say manning is the GOAT and no Colts fan will ever say Brady is the GOAT. That's what I've taken away from a decade of these threads.

[Dustin]

Wow, what a dumb play by Jones.

[Dustin]

Man, those Jets are for real. Wouldn't be suprised to see them win the east.

[SilentHill]

Brady actually played real bad today.

 

tons of over-throws.

[Moose Of Woe]

Man, those Jets are for real. Wouldn't be suprised to see them win the east.

Offensively they're not. Geno Smith has an arm, but zero pocket awareness.

 

The defense is good though. They stopped the Patriots on third down all but once or twice. Also bear in mind one Patriots TD was a pick six and another was on a drive that started on the Jets' 25. Not to mention stopped their opening drive in OT.

[Susie Q]

Well Tom Terrific got beat today.  Bet he's pouting. 

[Dustin]

Brady actually played real bad today.

tons of over-throws.

it's obviously all his receivers fault. /s.

[Moose Of Woe]

it's obviously all his receivers fault. /s.

 

He was screaming at someone in the fourth quarter. Again. It might have been Jerome Boger instead of his receivers, though. It's important to show his leadership to everyone. Receivers, offensive coordinators, refs, he doesn't discriminate.

 

 

Gronk looked pretty good/durable. He took a good shot right from the get go on his bad arm and seemed ok all game. He dropped a few including a game winner. I guess he just wanted to blend in with Dobson and company.  Still, the Pats are clearly a lot better with him on the field.

[Warhorse]

Well Tom Terrific got beat today.  Bet he's pouting. 

I doubt it. Angry maybe, not pouting. 1fer on 3rd down conversion will get a loss almost every time. They just didn't make the plays they needed to on their final drive of regulation and in overtime. I would call this game a loss by many on the Pats, not just Tom.