Raymond Berry

[The Old Crow]

I think AV will go down as the greatest kicker of all time...and to me that warrants a retired number. Plus we don't need to have all the single digit numbers, since only kickers, punters, and qbs can wear them.

Matt Stover is in our ring, Adam has better credentials than that , so he should be in, or get a retired number, no doubt.

[GoColts8818]

I think AV will go down as the greatest kicker of all time...and to me that warrants a retired number. Plus we don't need to have all the single digit numbers, since only kickers, punters, and qbs can wear them.

if Adam did it all for one team sure but frankly most of the moments that most will think made Adam the best kicker ever happened in New England. Also I think its fair to say that if you bring up number 4 in Indianapolis more think of Harbaugh first. He did a lot for this team in the few short years he was here. I am not sure if you can retire a number for a guy if the fan base associates that number with a different player. Again though if you won't retire 88 for Marvin or Mackey or 32 for Edge or 93 for Freeney I have a hard timing thinking it will be retired for Adam.

[The Old Crow]

The easiest thing to do is just have a Ring of Honor and limit retired numbers. However , I don't think #19 or # 18 should ever be worn on another jersey. Two of the best to ever play the game.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

if Adam did it all for one team sure but frankly most of the moments that most will think made Adam the best kicker ever happened in New England. Also I think its fair to say that if you bring up number 4 in Indianapolis more think of Harbaugh first. He did a lot for this team in the few short years he was here. I am not sure if you can retire a number for a guy if the fan base associates that number with a different player. Again though if you won't retire 88 for Marvin or Mackey or 32 for Edge or 93 for Freeney I have a hard timing thinking it will be retired for Adam.

I don't think we will retire it either...I'm just saying if I had a vote...I think Reggie White is the only player ever to have his number reitred by two teams.

[GoColts8818]

The easiest thing to do is just have a Ring of Honor and limit retired numbers. However , I don't think #19 or # 18 should ever be worn on another jersey. Two of the best to ever play the game.

they won't be 19 is already retired and Irsay already said no one will wear 18 again for the Colts. I am sure they will make it official once he retires and comes back and they can honor him in front of the fans like he and the fans deserve.

[throwing BBZ]

I saw Raymond Berry play. He was small, he couldn't run and he couldn't jump but, oh what a set of hands. It was like he had fly paper on them. If he touched it, he reeled it in. It was a different era and he put up some big numbers for the time.

 

 I recall him being a very fluid runner who caught a lot of balls behind the caucasion D-backs who often tried to beat the stuffin out of you beginning from the snap.

 Johnny U threw a great ball that landed in your hands like they were pillows, which worked nicely with those great hands. Lance Alworth another similar player, as i recall, a little faster. Good memories.

[The Old Crow]

Johnny and Raymond invented timing patterns. Like Manning does today , Unitas and Berry would stay long after training camp in Westminster was over, and continue working on routes and perfecting their timing.

[oldunclemark]

2 Harbaughs is one too many

Jim is a little crazy..and not quite a Colts Hall-of-Famer

[Fx Stryker]

The guy should have a statue.

  

reggie Wayne or Marvin Harrison to Johnny U.

  

I saw Raymond Berry play. He was small, he couldn't run and he couldn't jump but, oh what a set of hands. It was like he had fly paper on them. If he touched it, he reeled it in. It was a different era and he put up some big numbers for the time.

  

Thats a joke, right?

  

Hall of fame WR who played with Johnny U in Baltimore.

  

A Baltimore Colt WR back in the day. He was very good for his time era.

He is just being ignorant. He likes to act as if the Colts didn't exist in Baltimore. Kind of the anti-Baltimore fan. Even thou there is zero reason for him to. He just likes to act all high and mighty.

[The Old Crow]

He is just being ignorant. He likes to act as if the Colts didn't exist in Baltimore. Kind of the anti-Baltimore fan. Even thou there is zero reason for him to. He just likes to act all high and mighty.

I wouldn't expect him to like Baltimore, but at least Raymond Berry showed up for the coin toss when the Super Bowl was in Indy. Many old Baltimore Colts did not come to Indy, but Raymond did, so I'm not sure about the animosity towards him by pretending he didn't know who he was.

[The Old Crow]

they won't be 19 is already retired and Irsay already said no one will wear 18 again for the Colts. I am sure they will make it official once he retires and comes back and they can honor him in front of the fans like he and the fans deserve.[/quote

I think if you guys didn't put up a statue of Manning , we should put up one of him in Baltimore for beating the stuffing out of us so many times. He had us beat in Denver last year , and only a bungling safety saved us.

He would be in good company with Babe Ruth, Johnny Unitas, Cal Ripken , Brooks Robinson, Frank Robinson, Eddie Murray, Jim Palmer , Earl Weaver, and the soon to be Ray Lewis statue. We like statues.

[Fx Stryker]

I wouldn't expect him to like Baltimore, but at least Raymond Berry showed up for the coin toss when the Super Bowl was in Indy. Many old Baltimore Colts did not come to Indy, but Raymond did, so I'm not sure about the animosity towards him by pretending he didn't know who he was.

 

Yea, Ray is the one who still likes us, lol.

 

Love the new avatar btw.

[Fx Stryker]

I think the other old Baltimore Colts numbers are retired , except for Mackey. In some strange twist in 2011, the Colts issued a #19 jersey to some journeyman wide receiver named Kole Heckendorf. I am sure Irsay didn't like Unitas not embracing Indy , but Heckendorf ! At least Harrison wore # 88 well.

 

I never noticed that, but he did. But was forced to change his number. That honestly had to be a mix up. As he never was anything more than a practice field guy.

[The Old Crow]

Yea, Ray is the one who still likes us, lol.

 

Love the new avatar btw.

Thanks. 

[The Old Crow]

I never noticed that, but he did. But was forced to change his number. That honestly had to be a mix up. As he never was anything more than a practice field guy.

 

Must have been some equipment guy that doesn't know NFL history. I could almost seeing them giving the jersey to Manning or Luck, but Heckendorf ! It almost sounds like a joke, but it isn't. 

[Fx Stryker]

Must have been some equipment guy that doesn't know NFL history. I could almost seeing them giving the jersey to Manning or Luck, but Heckendorf ! It almost sounds like a joke, but it isn't. 

 

Yea that's extremely weird. It had to be an equipment mix up. But even if, why is there a printed 19 jersey anyway. Just doesn't seem real.

[The Old Crow]

Yea that's extremely weird. It had to be an equipment mix up. But even if, why is there a printed 19 jersey anyway. Just doesn't seem real.

That is why I was asking. I am not even sure how Marvin Harrison got John Mackey's number. I guess you always have strange quirks when a franchise moves. I remember last year when the Tennessee Titans donned Houston Oiler throwbacks. I doubt you would see Baltimore Colt throwbacks , ie. warm up jackets in Indy. I do see the old Colts logo here and there, but not much nostalgic items floating around.

[atapcl]

The easiest thing to do is just have a Ring of Honor and limit retired numbers. However , I don't think #19 or # 18 should ever be worn on another jersey. Two of the best to ever play the game.

The problem with this is how great do you have to be to get a retired number. Do we retire QB numbers only? Willie Richardson was a great WR and Raymond Chester a great TE who both wore the 87 that Wayne now wears. Do we retire 87 if Wayne makes the HOF or say no because he was not a QB?

[Blueblazes]

Interesting reads on all this--btw Mackey's #88 was not retired because he was one of the early leaders of the NFLPA and actually initiated a strike in '70. The Colts owner, Caroll Rosenbloom, held it against Mackey for the remainder of his career. And of course, Bob Irsay would not go out of his way for anyone, and did not pick up Rosenbloom's slack when they traded franchises and did not retire it. Mackey was the best TE of the first 50 years and arguably the best ever. He was ahead of his time and revolutionized the position along with Mike Ditka. Before them, TE's were nearly all blocking positions. Mackey and Ditka were the first real pass catchers. Mackey's main attribute was breaking tackles, though. He definitely was the best ever at doing that. Take a look at the highlight from the '60s game vs. the Lions to get an idea of what John Mackey was famous for.

[Fx Stryker]

That is why I was asking. I am not even sure how Marvin Harrison got John Mackey's number. I guess you always have strange quirks when a franchise moves. I remember last year when the Tennessee Titans donned Houston Oiler throwbacks. I doubt you would see Baltimore Colt throwbacks , ie. warm up jackets in Indy. I do see the old Colts logo here and there, but not much nostalgic items floating around.

 

Yea as you said we have the old logo floating around. And we do wear throwbacks every now and again. The '56 throwback was worn in the Thanksgiving game against Detriot in '04, and in '10 we wore the '54 throwback. And those are as different as the Colts uniform gets. Even now we wear the same uniforms from '57-'77. Except the the stripes which constantly shrink every year, and I hate it.

 

I really would have loves to see Peyton and Marvin donning the midevil trench coats like Johnny and Ray did. I love those things.

 

As for Mackey, it was just a disservice to his career that Carl or Bob never retired his number.

[The Old Crow]

The problem with this is how great do you have to be to get a retired number. Do we retire QB numbers only? Willie Richardson was a great WR and Raymond Chester a great TE who both wore the 87 that Wayne now wears. Do we retire 87 if Wayne makes the HOF or say no because he was not a QB?

Raymond Chester and Willy Richardson were great players, but John Mackey was voted the greatest tight end of all time. I would only retire numbers for the legends , the rest go in the ring of honor.

[The Old Crow]

Interesting reads on all this--btw Mackey's #88 was not retired because he was one of the early leaders of the NFLPA and actually initiated a strike in '70. The Colts owner, Caroll Rosenbloom, held it against Mackey for the remainder of his career. And of course, Bob Irsay would not go out of his way for anyone, and did not pick up Rosenbloom's slack when they traded franchises and did not retire it. Mackey was the best TE of the first 50 years and arguably the best ever. He was ahead of his time and revolutionized the position along with Mike Ditka. Before them, TE's were nearly all blocking positions. Mackey and Ditka were the first real pass catchers. Mackey's main attribute was breaking tackles, though. He definitely was the best ever at doing that. Take a look at the highlight from the '60s game vs. the Lions to get an idea of what John Mackey was famous for.

Wow , I forgot about that. At least Harrison put together a great career with # 88 . Mackey was a real good guy.

[The Old Crow]

Yea as you said we have the old logo floating around. And we do wear throwbacks every now and again. The '56 throwback was worn in the Thanksgiving game against Detriot in '04, and in '10 we wore the '54 throwback. And those are as different as the Colts uniform gets. Even now we wear the same uniforms from '57-'77. Except the the stripes which constantly shrink every year, and I hate it.

I really would have loves to see Peyton and Marvin donning the midevil trench coats like Johnny and Ray did. I love those things.

As for Mackey, it was just a disservice to his career that Carl or Bob never retired his number.

I don't remember ever seeing those throwbacks. It looks like the blue colors on the current uniforms are a different hue than the Baltimore uniforms. Those old trench coats Unitas wore were legendary.

[The Old Crow]

Apparently four Baltimore Colts were issued # 88 after 1972. I guess Rosenbloom and Bob Irsay did have it in for John Mackey for supporting the union. It's a dang shame they couldn't just look at his football career and honor him.

[Fx Stryker]

I don't remember ever seeing those throwbacks. It looks like the blue colors on the current uniforms are a different hue than the Baltimore uniforms. Those old trench coats Unitas wore were legendary.

 

We hardly use them, but there are occasions. And I believe these two games, '04 vs Detriot and '10 vs Philly, are the only time during the regular season. While I believe in the pre-season they have been used a few times.

 

 

 

As for the hue of the blue I think it is just printing costs, and availability. Stuff like that.

[The Old Crow]

Interesting. Those uniforms were even a bit before my time.

[DarkHorseColts]

I dont like the idea of retiring numbers, it is a limited supply. Can't wait to see #127 out on a go route.

 

I think they should be put in limbo and the previous owner of the number gets to have a partial say in who gets to use it next, then that right is passed on.

 

I agree. The Raiders actually 'reserve' numbers like you are talking about, if I'm not mistaken.

[The Old Crow]

Indy wasn't alone in issuing a #19 jersey to Heckendorf. The Ravens blundered and let the horrible Scott Mitchell wear 19 for the Ravens. Like Heckendorf , hopefully we will never see another # 19 appear in either city.

[bayone]

Who is Raymond Berry?

 

if u r serious one of the best all time Receivers, was Unitas main weapon, he was on page with Unitas , reading tape & ubderstanding  audibles Unitas called before Peyton was born, if not for those 2 Unitas wouldnt of run the first ever 2 minute drill in the greatest game ever played, 1958 championship,Win over Giants a true hall of famer

[The Old Crow]

if u r serious one of the best all time Receivers, was Unitas main weapon, he was on page with Unitas , reading tape & ubderstanding audibles Unitas called before Peyton was born, if not for those 2 Unitas wouldnt of run the first ever 2 minute drill in the greatest game ever played, 1958 championship,Win over Giants a true hall of famer

I don't think he is serious. You can't tell me he knows all the ins and outs of Maryland politics and eminent domain, but wouldn't know who Raymond Berry is. Like FX said, he would have preferred that the Baltimore Colts never existed, and since they did exist, would rather expunge Baltimore from any part of Colts history.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

if u r serious

 

no, I wasn't serious. I'm well aware of who he is and his impact on this franchise and NFL in general. And have a tremendous amount of respect for what he and other Colts from bygone years accomplished.

 

I just wanted to needle a couple of the folks who are FURIOUS that I brought out the real background behind the Colts franchise's departure from Baltimore.

 

And it appears I was wildly successful.

[John Dee]

I personally hope this was a just a failed attempt at HUMOR>

 

ANY Colt fan knows who is who............

 

Believe it or not the "horseshoe" was and has been an NFL standard for a very long time.

Who is Raymond Berry?

[The Old Crow]

no, I wasn't serious. I'm well aware of who he is and his impact on this franchise and NFL in general. And have a tremendous amount of respect for what he and other Colts from bygone years accomplished.

I just wanted to needle a couple of the folks who are FURIOUS that I brought out the real background behind the Colts franchise's departure from Baltimore.

And it appears I was wildly successful.

I am not furious. I welcome your research into the history of the Baltimore Colts. It's all a good natured debate to me. Unlike some of your associates , I don't mind the needling. Based on your research in other areas , I figured you knew who Raymond Berry was. If you didn't , you would lose your horse shoe license plate.

[k9copinmd]

I'm a holdover Colts fan. The Colts are all I have ever known from the time I first knew what a football was. When the Colts moved to Indy in 1984 I was 17 at the time....and I was furious. But I wasn't furious because of the political reasons. I was furious because I felt like a long time best friend was gone. Something I had loved my entire life was gone in the middle of a snowy night. I had to think long and hard about what to do and I chose to stay with my team. It can be pretty tough sometimes being a Colts fan in Maryland....especially sporting a Colts jersey at M & T Bank Stadium when the Colts come to town.  lol  

However, if there was one thing I could change about professional sports it would be a rule implemented where once a team has been in a city for a certain amount of time....say 20 years or 25 years....and the owner decided to move that team then the team could go but the name would stay with the city. I know the city doesn't own the name....ownership does....I just hate the thought of possibly having the Memphis Steelers or Columbus Packers. Just doesn't seem right. 

[atapcl]

I'm a holdover Colts fan. The Colts are all I have ever known from the time I first knew what a football was. When the Colts moved to Indy in 1984 I was 17 at the time....and I was furious. But I wasn't furious because of the political reasons. I was furious because I felt like a long time best friend was gone. Something I had loved my entire life was gone in the middle of a snowy night. I had to think long and hard about what to do and I chose to stay with my team. It can be pretty tough sometimes being a Colts fan in Maryland....especially sporting a Colts jersey at M & T Bank Stadium when the Colts come to town.  lol  

However, if there was one thing I could change about professional sports it would be a rule implemented where once a team has been in a city for a certain amount of time....say 20 years or 25 years....and the owner decided to move that team then the team could go but the name would stay with the city. I know the city doesn't own the name....ownership does....I just hate the thought of possibly having the Memphis Steelers or Columbus Packers. Just doesn't seem right.

The Baltimore Ravins are really the old Cleveland Browns. When the team moved the city of Cleveland kept the name for a future team which is now the Browns. Art Modell had to change the name of his team and the team colors.

[k9copinmd]

The Baltimore Ravins are really the old Cleveland Browns. When the team moved the city of Cleveland kept the name for a future team which is now the Browns. Art Modell had to change the name of his team and the team colors.

Right I know. But legally speaking the owner of the team owns the team name....so unless there is a contract or something agreed upon beforehand between the city and the team owner then the owner can take the team and the name upon leaving and its nothing the city could do about it. 

[Dark Superman]

I dont like the idea of retiring numbers, it is a limited supply. Can't wait to see #127 out on a go route.

 

I think they should be put in limbo and the previous owner of the number gets to have a partial say in who gets to use it next, then that right is passed on.

I agree..

Lol this post cracked me up but your right..

A number should be able to be retired more thn once.

[The Old Crow]

I wish I could have followed the Colts after 1983, but I just couldn't. I like the city of Indy , and the people are great, but I grew up a Colts , Orioles, and Maryland fan and have ties to my city and region. I still like the Colts because they were the team of my youth, but had to move onto the Ravens. That being said, I will always like the old Baltimore Colts.

I'm starting to agree with GoColts8818 that it's good to celebrate the history of the old Colts in either city. As I've said before things happen for a reason, and Indy got a football team , and Baltimore got another one that is creating a new era of history for the city. Both cities are very fortunate by having teams that have been highly successful for a long period of time.

[Hammer]

From this http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827709b9/article/colts-peyton-manning-say-goodbye-irsay-team-to-retire-no-18,I think the intention is to do it but it has not been done formerly yet. For all practical purposes 18 probably will not be worn by anybody else.

.....unless he goes in as a Bronco.

[Goodtimes]

.....unless he goes in as a Bronco.

 

Which is exactly what he should do but I have been told that one does not go into the HOF as a member of any team.