NFLPA files grievance to recoup $82,000 for Aaron Hernandez workout bonus

[OffensivelyPC]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000234618/article/nflpa-files-grievance-vs-patriots-on-aaron-hernandezs-behalf

 

Saw this and thought their reasoning was absolute garbage.  I get the whole innocent until proven guilty, but this is one of those situations where the facts are so particular, that everyone, including the players, shouldn't mind carving out the exception.  It's not like a player who was cut didn't get paid a bonus they earned.  This is an alleged murderer that the NFLPA is defending.  If anything, freeze the bonus until resolution of the case.  If he's guilty, donate the money to the victim's family or a charity.  The NFLPA is off their hinges on this one, IMO.

[Thewholefnshow28]

I see both sides of this.  Rational thinking would say that everyone can plainly see that this is a special case and given all of the evidence it should be easy to make an exception.  

 

On the flip side you give the owners an inch and they will take a mile.  Companies will do anything they can to make money or get money back and I could see this setting a precedent especially since Hernandez has not even been found guilty yet.  My guess the union worries that if this goes through teams could easily start to do this kind of stuff for every incident where a police are involved no matter if the player is found guilty or not.

[OffensivelyPC]

I see both sides of this.  Rational thinking would say that everyone can plainly see that this is a special case and given all of the evidence it should be easy to make an exception.  

 

On the flip side you give the owners an inch and they will take a mile.  Companies will do anything they can to make money or get money back and I could see this setting a precedent especially since Hernandez has not even been found guilty yet.  My guess the union worries that if this goes through teams could easily start to do this kind of stuff for every incident where a police are involved no matter if the player is found guilty or not.

Yeah, I really do get the NFLPA's argument, and I would draw the line at murder allegations, and I'd probably be okay with rape, except htat those charges have historically been pretty easy to fabricate.  So on an evidentiary basis, I'd just make hte exception only for murder.  Allegations like these don't occur very often to active NFL players, so to me, the risk is minimal.  Were the sides to agree that murder is the only exception, I think no one, even the NFLPA would have a problem with not paying Hernandez in this case, because if preceent is the only thing they are concerned about, limit the precedent now.

[Nadine]

I would think that if he participated in the workouts.........and that was the only stipulation to get that money

 

They have to give it to him

[Thewholefnshow28]

Yeah, I really do get the NFLPA's argument, and I would draw the line at murder allegations, and I'd probably be okay with rape, except htat those charges have historically been pretty easy to fabricate.  So on an evidentiary basis, I'd just make hte exception only for murder.  Allegations like these don't occur very often to active NFL players, so to me, the risk is minimal.  Were the sides to agree that murder is the only exception, I think no one, even the NFLPA would have a problem with not paying Hernandez in this case, because if preceent is the only thing they are concerned about, limit the precedent now.

 

It would make sense to limit the precedent now, but the owners are not going to stop there.  If they can get this through to take workout money from Hernandez they are going to want to keep on going.  Why stop there when you could do DUI, assault, drunk and disorderly conduct and so on? Also, my guess is the union does not want to start down this road especially since Hernandez has not been found guilty of anything.  People love to convict people before they even have a trial, but thankfully popular opinion does not run our justice system.  So the union is looking at a guy who has only been charged with something and the owners are trying to take money that he rightfully earned by participating in workouts.  

 

I can see the union letting it go through more if Hernandez was convicted of the crime, but in our society the guy is innocent until proven guilty.  I think the union just has to tread lightly on this one because they are looking out for the rest of the players they represent.  

 

I get exactly where you are coming from but I understand the whole company/union dynamic as well. 

[shakedownstreet]

the article doesn't go into any specifics. on the surface of it, i'd have to side with the union. if hernandez earned the money per the contract, then this seems like a no brainer

[OffensivelyPC]

I would think that if he participated in the workouts.........and that was the only stipulation to get that money

 

They have to give it to him

Under the CBA, bonuses earned are considered "forfeitable" if you are incarcerated (among other violations). Any violation that occurs in the same league year that the forfeitable salary occurs (so in this case, the salary was to be paid out in the same year as the year of arrest) may be forfeited, regardless of when that bonus is to be paid.  How much will be forfeited is a different question and depends on how long he is incarcerated for, but it can be up to 100%

[Nadine]

Under the CBA, bonuses earned are considered "forfeitable" if you are incarcerated (among other violations). Any violation that occurs in the same league year that the forfeitable salary occurs (so in this case, the salary was to be paid out in the same year as the year of arrest) may be forfeited, regardless of when that bonus is to be paid.  How much will be forfeited is a different question and depends on how long he is incarcerated for, but it can be up to 100%

 

Thanks for the info.

So I guess it hinges on the outcome of the trial?

[OffensivelyPC]

Thanks for the info.

So I guess it hinges on the outcome of the trial?

Well, the way I am reading it, it is just time missed due to incarceration, and currently, he's incarcerated.  At first I thought it should be frozen until resolution of hte trial, but after going to the CBA, it looks like the Club has no obligation to freeze the funds.  If you are interested, I've attached it here.  But if it doesn't work google it (2011 NFL CBA, or something rather) and go down to Article 4, Section 9.  http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

[crazycolt1]

I have had jobs with and without a union. The unions collect money from the players just like any job that is covered by a union. I can't fault the union for going after the money for Hernandez. He has not been found guilty of a crime yet so this is a grey area. Was this money earned before he was incarcerated? If so I would think he would get it. I guess my question would be can the owner take or freeze money already earned? 

[crazycolt1]

Well, the way I am reading it, it is just time missed due to incarceration, and currently, he's incarcerated.  At first I thought it should be frozen until resolution of hte trial, but after going to the CBA, it looks like the Club has no obligation to freeze the funds.  If you are interested, I've attached it here.  But if it doesn't work google it (2011 NFL CBA, or something rather) and go down to Article 4, Section 9.  http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

After reading the link you provided it states salary. Does a bonus count as salary? It also states a salary earned before the offense has to be paid but later has wording contrary to that point. With all the stipulations it is hard to know exactly what is says. Looks like this may be going to the System Arbitrator according what I can tell. I can foresee a long process before this is resolved. 

[MIColtsFan]

Under the CBA, bonuses earned are considered "forfeitable" if you are incarcerated (among other violations). Any violation that occurs in the same league year that the forfeitable salary occurs (so in this case, the salary was to be paid out in the same year as the year of arrest) may be forfeited, regardless of when that bonus is to be paid.  How much will be forfeited is a different question and depends on how long he is incarcerated for, but it can be up to 100%

 I would hope it would be "forfeitetable" if incarcerated or arrested for any reason. I will be following this.

[FloridaColtsFan]

After reading the link you provided it states salary. Does a bonus count as salary? It also states a salary earned before the offense has to be paid but later has wording contrary to that point. With all the stipulations it is hard to know exactly what is says. Looks like this may be going to the System Arbitrator according what I can tell. I can foresee a long process before this is resolved. 

In my UNION workplace, bonuses are counted at the negligent IRS as UNEARNED income, not part of your salary or work wages. It is taxed at almost 50% .  Hernandez gets NOTHING, the BUM. :clap:

[jvan1973]

I would hope it would be "forfeitetable" if incarcerated or arrested for any reason. I will be following this.

any reason? even if the player is accused of something he didn't do, and was then found not guilty?

[jvan1973]

In my UNION workplace, bonuses are counted at the negligent IRS as UNEARNED income, not part of your salary or work wages. It is taxed at almost 50% . Hernandez gets NOTHING, the BUM. :clap:

I'm sure the nfl cba is different than yours

[OffensivelyPC]

After reading the link you provided it states salary. Does a bonus count as salary? It also states a salary earned before the offense has to be paid but later has wording contrary to that point. With all the stipulations it is hard to know exactly what is says. Looks like this may be going to the System Arbitrator according what I can tell. I can foresee a long process before this is resolved. 

I read it to include, among others, reporting bonuses, which that is what this is (i.e. reporting to workout).  But the pertinent language is, "Any player who . . . (ii) is unavailable to the team due to conduct by him that results in his incarceration . . . may be required to forfeit signing bonus, roster bonus, option bonus and/or reporting bonus, and no other Salary, for each League Year in which a Forfeitable Breach occurs (collectively, “Forfeitable Salary Allocations”)." 

 

I'm sure the NFLPA will try to argue, in part what that this isn't a "reporting salary", but I don't see the argument.  Perhaps the better argument is one of due process (sigh, again). AH is being divested of money technically earned, and it is being withdrawn without a hearing of any sort.  That is an argument that the NFLPA will make, no doubt.  I'm sure this will be taken to a System Arbitrator, and I'm not going to blow smoke up anyone's blank and say I know better than the lawyers between the NFL and the NFLPA, as I'm sure they are more well versed in the CBA than I am.  What can I say?  I just enjoy the legal struggles in the NFL and find them interesting.

[jvan1973]

Any player who . . . (ii) is unavailable to the team due to conduct by him that results in his incarceration

how can they ascertain that his conduct resulted in his incarceration until he has been found guilty?

I read it to include, among others, reporting bonuses, which that is what this is (i.e. reporting to workout). But the pertinent language is, "Any player who . . . (ii) is unavailable to the team due to conduct by him that results in his incarceration . . . may be required to forfeit signing bonus, roster bonus, option bonus and/or reporting bonus, and no other Salary, for each League Year in which a Forfeitable Breach occurs (collectively, “Forfeitable Salary Allocations”)."

I'm sure the NFLPA will try to argue, in part what that this isn't a "reporting salary", but I don't see the argument. Perhaps the better argument is one of due process (sigh, again). AH is being divested of money technically earned, and it is being withdrawn without a hearing of any sort. That is an argument that the NFLPA will make, no doubt. I'm sure this will be taken to a System Arbitrator, and I'm not going to blow smoke up anyone's blank and say I know better than the lawyers between the NFL and the NFLPA, as I'm sure they are more well versed in the CBA than I am. What can I say? I just enjoy the legal struggles in the NFL and find them interesting.

[OffensivelyPC]

Any player who . . . (ii) is unavailable to the team due to conduct by him that results in his incarceration

how can they ascertain that his conduct resulted in his incarceration until he has been found guilty?

 

Because he is in jail.  Ben Roethlisberger wasn't even charged with anything and got suspended for 6 games for conduct detrimental based only on evidence in the media, and the NFLPA did nothing.  Why this time is different is beyond me. 

[jvan1973]

Because he is in jail. Ben Roethlisberger wasn't even charged with anything and got suspended for 6 games for conduct detrimental based only on evidence in the media, and the NFLPA did nothing. Why this time is different is beyond me.

ben shouldn't have been suspended either. he was accused, but not convicted. that could happen to anyone at any time.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Any player who . . . (ii) is unavailable to the team due to conduct by him that results in his incarceration

how can they ascertain that his conduct resulted in his incarceration until he has been found guilty?

 

 

Because evidence exists that a judge deems is adequate enough to place the former Tight End behind bars  thus incarcerated whether long or short term  people charged with murder tend to be locked up , It would seem reasonable under the circumstances  .

 

The question should be when the TE drops his Irish Spring will he recieve a Hello Dolly & become a WR ?

[OffensivelyPC]

ben shouldn't have been suspended either. he was accused, but not convicted. that could happen to anyone at any time.

Well, I agree with you from a practical standpoint.  Doesn't mean that that is how the rules operate within a private organization such as the NFL, or any business for that matter.  But as far as ben was concerned, yeah he was accused in mediasphere, but police investigated and never filed any charges.

[NewColtsFan]

Remember.....    the union isn't doing this to protect Aaron Hernandez.    The union is trying to make sure a bad precedent isn't set.   The union is doing this for future players whose mistake won't be nearly as terrible as Hernandez's is....  

 

Once management gets their way on this,  they'll always point to it in future incidents.

 

I've got no problem with the union on this one.

[OffensivelyPC]

Remember.....    the union isn't doing this to protect Aaron Hernandez.    The union is trying to make sure a bad precedent isn't set.   The union is doing this for future players whose mistake won't be nearly as terrible as Hernandez's is....  

 

Once management gets their way on this,  they'll always point to it in future incidents.

 

I've got no problem with the union on this one.

Oh I understand, completely.  And there is an argument to be made.  I just think, on the facts of this case, it's not a very strong position even if they are right to a degree.  Under the words of the CBA, it looks as though they use a formula to apportion how much the franchise keeps and how much the player would get (i.e. 25% if you miss 10 training camp practices cap).  There's others for time missed during the season andi nto the post season, etc.  So I think what the NFLPA is doing is just making the NFL jump through the hoops and minimizing the amount retained, and that's fair, even if I disagree in this particular case.

[crazycolt1]

I'm sure the nfl cba is different than yours

That may be true to your workplace. That is in the contract your reps represented to you and you and fellow employees agreed to. Your contract has zero to do with the NFL-NFLPA contract as it is separate. Each contract for each union has zero to do with any other contract. A Teamsters contract does not relate to a Ironworkers contract. ect....

[crazycolt1]

Sorry, my last post was directed to FL colt fan not jvan1973.  Sorry jvan1973 I hit the wrong key but I was backing you up!! lol

[jskinnz]

NewColtsFan is right.  This is only marginally about Hernandez and much more about the precedent of those future cases.  Plus, he NFLPA has to fight for everyone, even the ones that are accused of such things as Hernandez is. 

[oldunclemark]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000234618/article/nflpa-files-grievance-vs-patriots-on-aaron-hernandezs-behalf

 

Saw this and thought their reasoning was absolute garbage.  I get the whole innocent until proven guilty, but this is one of those situations where the facts are so particular, that everyone, including the players, shouldn't mind carving out the exception.  It's not like a player who was cut didn't get paid a bonus they earned.  This is an alleged murderer that the NFLPA is defending.  If anything, freeze the bonus until resolution of the case.  If he's guilty, donate the money to the victim's family or a charity.  The NFLPA is off their hinges on this one, IMO.

This is another reason why the NFLPA is a morally bankrupt group..

 

They want Aaron to get his 82K

 

..but when NFLPA union members are paying each other to injure other union members in New Orleans...the NFLPA pretends they don't see it....

 

..and ask the NFLPA what they have done for older ex-players....they don't take their calls

[MIColtsFan]

any reason? even if the player is accused of something he didn't do, and was then found not guilty?

very rarely are people arrested for something they didn't do, many can be found not guilty of even something they did do with the help of lawyers, so yes for me, an arrest for any reason is problem 

[jvan1973]

very rarely are people arrested for something they didn't do, many can be found not guilty of even something they did do with the help of lawyers, so yes for me, an arrest for any reason is problem

innocent people are arrested every day all over the world. Don't kid yourself

[MIColtsFan]

innocent people are arrested every day all over the world. Don't kid yourself

Ok, thanks 

[TAPLOOK]

He did the required work right? 

[Thewholefnshow28]

This is another reason why the NFLPA is a morally bankrupt group..

 

They want Aaron to get his 82K

 

..but when NFLPA union members are paying each other to injure other union members in New Orleans...the NFLPA pretends they don't see it....

 

..and ask the NFLPA what they have done for older ex-players....they don't take their calls

 

Ugh the union is not morally bankrupt because as other has pointed out this is not about Hernandez, but about future incidents that may occur.  If the owners get what they want here they will not stop at just Hernandez. If a precedent is set here that the owner can go after stuff like this they will do it for any minor incident be it true or not. Yes, what Hernandez is accused of doing is heinous and I imagine the union is not thrilled about it but they have to think about all the other current members and future members because the owners will not say oh this is just a one time deal because of how horrible the accused crime is.  The owners will just see this as an opportunity to go after anyone who may get in trouble from time to time.

 

very rarely are people arrested for something they didn't do, many can be found not guilty of even something they did do with the help of lawyers, so yes for me, an arrest for any reason is problem 

 

I do not know what world you live in, but people are arrested and tried all the time for crimes that they have not convicted.  Our criminal system in this country is far from perfect and innocent people go to jail and guilty people are set free.