Pistol vs Read-Option.

[Dustin]

Someone brought this up on another site and since a lot of people here confuse the two I figured I'd best try to explain it.

 

The Pistol is nothing more than a formation where the QB lines up 4 yards behind the center with the RB directly behind him.

 

This is the pistol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

This formation is worse for passing than the Shotgun because the QB can't see the field as well and the pass rush gets to him quicker, but is better for running as it allows the RB to get the ball quicker. It's also better for passing than under center, but worse for running.

 

1. The pistol is not a gimmick. It's a formation.

 

2. The pistol and read option are not the same. 

 

3. You don't need an athletic QB to run it (See: Detroit)

 

 

Next is the read-option.

 

There are 2 are two option plays: The inside zone read and the outside Zone read. On the inside zone-read the RB basically runs a halfback dive if given the ball. On the outside zone-read the RB tries to bounce out to the outside or if the QB takes the ball is responsible for blocking responsibilities. 

 

The basic concept of the zone-read is to allow a defensive lineman unblocked. Either the LDE or the RDE. When running the zone-read the DE has 1 of 2 choices to make. He can either set the edge and contain the QB or pursue the RB. In a properly run read-option whatever choice the DE makes is the wrong one. If the DE sets the edge then the QB hands off to the RB and if the DE pursues the RB then the QB keeps the ball and runs to the outside.

 

Here is an example of a QB keeper where the OLB (in this case our very own Erik Walden) doesn't set the edge correctly and bites hard on the fake allowing Kaepernick to break a long run:

 

 

 

The zone-read is also not strictly a running play.

 

You're also able to run pass plays out of it such as bubble screens as seen here:

 

 

 

 

_________________________________________________________________________

 

Hope that this clarifies. And I hope that Pep runs a lot of the Pistol next season.

[BOTT]

+2 for hoping Colts use the pistol

[coltsfanatic24]

I like the pistol as well but i also want to see more 2 TE sets.

[BrentMc11]

This thread may fire me up as a defensive guy.....I love debating 'these offenses.'  

 

Gonna eat dinner...and see how this develops....  Never going to like either NFL offense (Not For Long)  Sup, get your warning points out!!!    Just kidding...Until the NFL learns to play against these offenses, they will continue to be extremely effective.

 

As I have said before, I would love to go after these offenses....My name would be associated with Gregg Williams and now Bill Polian....(HIT THE QB EVERY TIME....)  Happy Memorial Day!!!  

[21isSuperman]

In that .gif, Walden gets blocked.  He isn't unblocked, as you say.  The fullback (offset left at the snap) comes across and blocks him.  If anything, it looked to me like Walden was setting the edge as he didn't pursue towards the middle of the line.    It looks to me like Kaepernick was looking more at #59.  #59 pursues the RB and the FB (I think it's Walker) takes care of Walden.  The CB follows the WR, so Kaepernick knows the entire right side of the field is empty.    At first, #59 is moving towards the edge, but he bites hard on the play action and moves towards the middle.  If he continues towards the edge, Kap hands it off.  If he pursues the RB, Kap keeps it.  That's how it looks to me, anyway. 

 

And that zone-read bubble screen looks really weird to me.

[Dustin]

In that .gif, Walden gets blocked. He isn't unblocked, as you say. The fullback (offset left at the snap) comes across and blocks him. If anything, it looked to me like Walden was setting the edge as he didn't pursue towards the middle of the line. It looks to me like Kaepernick was looking more at #59. #59 pursues the RB and the FB (I think it's Walker) takes care of Walden. The CB follows the WR, so Kaepernick knows the entire right side of the field is empty. At first, #59 is moving towards the edge, but he bites hard on the play action and moves towards the middle. If he continues towards the edge, Kap hands it off. If he pursues the RB, Kap keeps it. That's how it looks to me, anyway.

And that zone-read bubble screen looks really weird to me.

He hesitated and tried for inside contain when he should have went for oustside contain. Probably not the best example I could have used I admit.

[21isSuperman]

He tried to cheat up which is one of the worst things you can do because no matter what happens it's going to be a large gain. He tried for inside contain when he should have went for outside. Probably not the best example I could have used I admit.

No worries.  I agree with everything you said and I really liked your analysis.  That .gif just didn't exemplify it as well as we would like

[Dustin]

Also, for anyone interested in how often each team runs the read option, this link lays out the percentages.

The only teams that really uses it a staple of their offenses are Carolina and Washington.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/95574/run-oriented-qbs-and-nfc-west-mythology

[goodCOLTSwin]

Would Ballard be better as running back in read-option or pistol plays? How about DB and Kerwynn Williams (who I dub KiloWatt, KW; and claim creative rights to the designation because of his capability for being electric). Doesn't the effectiveness of either the pistol or read-option depend on how deeply the opposing defense feels threatened by the QB's threat as runner and is it worth the risk of injury for the Colts to risk Luck in this way. Defenses can't attack QB with malice while passing like they can if he is considered a runner.  From a risk/reward standpoint I just think it should not be used often. 

[Dustin]

Would Ballard be better as running back in read-option or pistol plays? How about DB and Kerwynn Williams (who I dub KiloWatt, KW; and claim creative rights to the designation because of his capability for being electric). Doesn't the effectiveness of either the pistol or read-option depend on how deeply the opposing defense feels threatened by the QB's threat as runner and is it worth the risk of injury for the Colts to risk Luck in this way. Defenses can't attack QB with malice while passing like they can if he is considered a runner.  From a risk/reward standpoint I just think it should not be used often. 

 

If I'm not mistaken Ballard ran primarily out of the pistol when he was at Mississippi. That's a big reason why I hope we see a lot of it next year from Pep. Kerwynn ran almost exclusively out of the zone-read so I don't think he would have a problem running out of it (though I hope we don't use it)

 

" Doesn't the effectiveness of either the pistol or read-option depend on how deeply the opposing defense feels threatened by the QB's threat as runner"

 

This is true for the read-option, but not the pistol. The effectiveness of zone-read is basically determined by how well your QB is at running the ball. The pistol is just a formation. A modified shotgun if you will. The Lions run a lot of pistol and I don't think anyone considers Stafford a threat to run.

 

I agree that the risk of the read-option far outweighs the reward, which is why I hope we don't run much of it. Though I wouldn't be opposed to 2-3 plays a game using it. The Pistol doesn't put the QB at any more of a risk then he would be at if he were taking the snap under center.

 

 

Hope this answers some of your questions.

[RGIII]

I've been trying to explain that distinction for a long time around here and elsewhere.  Glad someone who won't be accused of enemy team trickery put together such a nice thread on it.

 

Major props.

[bayone]

Peyton & Broncos practiced Pistol in OTA's

 

 

Click on photo to enlarge

 

#Broncos uploaded this photo to Facebook today  ( 2 days ago ) —shows what appears to be a pistol offense: http://bit.ly/16OI9RZ

 

http://twitpic.com/csgesf

[southwest1]

This thread may fire me up as a defensive guy.....I love debating 'these offenses.'  

 

Gonna eat dinner...and see how this develops....  Never going to like either NFL offense (Not For Long)  Sup, get your warning points out!!!    Just kidding...Until the NFL learns to play against these offenses, they will continue to be extremely effective.

 

As I have said before, I would love to go after these offenses....My name would be associated with Gregg Williams and now Bill Polian....(HIT THE QB EVERY TIME....)  Happy Memorial Day!!!  

Gregg Williams? No, you're better than that Brent. You believe in hitting a QB cleanly. A HUGE difference. The only dirt on you would be grass stain related my friend. 

[BrentMc11]

Gregg Williams? No, you're better than that Brent. You believe in hitting a QB cleanly. A HUGE difference. The only dirt on you would be grass stain related my friend. 

True buddy!  I would for sure....unless I was in a bad mood

[stat2883]

its definitely a gray area, but I loved the style of Williams' defense -- as long as they're within the rules and no extra-curricular activities after the whistle

[southwest1]

True buddy!  I would for sure....unless I was in a bad mood

Either that or an opposing LB or DE almost decapitated your quarterback for no legitimate reason.

 

Once that happens, the gloves come off regardless of a 15 yard roughing the passer penalty.     

[Superman]

In that .gif, Walden gets blocked.  He isn't unblocked, as you say.  The fullback (offset left at the snap) comes across and blocks him.  If anything, it looked to me like Walden was setting the edge as he didn't pursue towards the middle of the line.    It looks to me like Kaepernick was looking more at #59.  #59 pursues the RB and the FB (I think it's Walker) takes care of Walden.  The CB follows the WR, so Kaepernick knows the entire right side of the field is empty.    At first, #59 is moving towards the edge, but he bites hard on the play action and moves towards the middle.  If he continues towards the edge, Kap hands it off.  If he pursues the RB, Kap keeps it.  That's how it looks to me, anyway. 

 

And that zone-read bubble screen looks really weird to me.

 

That #59 is Brad Jones, a player that actually had a pretty good year at inside linebacker last season. He got moved inside and started most of the season. According to the revered PFF (note my sarcasm), he was 12th among inside backers in the NFL, the Packers 5th best defensive player.

 

And as you say, he is the one that bites hard on the inside fake, he is the player that Kaepernick read, and it was his overplay that was really responsible for the long run. Walden also took himself out of position on the play, crashing too far to the inside instead of setting the edge a little wider. But still, Walden was blocked, and probably wouldn't have made the play either. He might have caused Kaepernick to take a wider angle, and that might have influenced the play enough to get a stop, but it probably wouldn't have been Walden making the tackle. Still, his play was undisiplined, as was Jones', and that goes for the safety Charles Woodson as well. 

 

In all, it was a good play call, well executed by Kaepernick, coupled with some over pursuit by at least three Packers defenders, that led to a touchdown.

[Gavin]

That #59 is Brad Jones, a player that actually had a pretty good year at inside linebacker last season. He got moved inside and started most of the season. According to the revered PFF (note my sarcasm), he was 12th among inside backers in the NFL, the Packers 5th best defensive player.

 

And as you say, he is the one that bites hard on the inside fake, he is the player that Kaepernick read, and it was his overplay that was really responsible for the long run. Walden also took himself out of position on the play, crashing too far to the inside instead of setting the edge a little wider. But still, Walden was blocked, and probably wouldn't have made the play either. He might have caused Kaepernick to take a wider angle, and that might have influenced the play enough to get a stop, but it probably wouldn't have been Walden making the tackle. Still, his play was undisiplined, as was Jones', and that goes for the safety Charles Woodson as well. 

 

In all, it was a good play call, well executed by Kaepernick, coupled with some over pursuit by at least three Packers defenders, that led to a touchdown.

Good breakdown. I agree with you but I also think a case can be made that if Walden sets that edge a little wider (Maybe much wider) that forces Kaepernick to run up that middle which gives Jones a good but not great chance to make the play on Kaepernick or at least slow him down enough (potentially) for Woodson to continue on his inside path for the tackle, Either way Kaepernick read Jones but perhaps it would not have mattered is what Im thinking if Walden sets that edge a little wider if Kaepernick read Jones or not

[BrentMc11]

Either that or an opposing LB or DE almost decapitated your quarterback for no legitimate reason.

 

Once that happens, the gloves come off regardless of a 15 yard roughing the passer penalty.     

Paybacks are indeed   !!!!!!  Not to be confused with Peyton Pey-backs from years gone by!!!  

[BrentMc11]

Good breakdown. I agree with you but I also think a case can be made that if Walden sets that edge a little wider (Maybe much wider) that forces Kaepernick to run up that middle which gives Jones a good but not great chance to make the play on Kaepernick or at least slow him down enough (potentially) for Woodson to continue on his inside path for the tackle, Either way Kaepernick read Jones but perhaps it would not have mattered is what Im thinking if Walden sets that edge a little wider if Kaepernick read Jones or not

I agree...Walden was aggressively setting the edge.  I also agree with Sups assessment that the play was undisciplined in that Walden over-pursued....

 

I am hoping our fron three and backers can avoid this.  We need Walden/Werner/??? to aggressively set the edge.  Pagano and Manusky need to coach...as well as Coach Fitzgerald.

 

Good analysis guys!  

[21isSuperman]

That #59 is Brad Jones, a player that actually had a pretty good year at inside linebacker last season. He got moved inside and started most of the season. According to the revered PFF (note my sarcasm), he was 12th among inside backers in the NFL, the Packers 5th best defensive player.

 

And as you say, he is the one that bites hard on the inside fake, he is the player that Kaepernick read, and it was his overplay that was really responsible for the long run. Walden also took himself out of position on the play, crashing too far to the inside instead of setting the edge a little wider. But still, Walden was blocked, and probably wouldn't have made the play either. He might have caused Kaepernick to take a wider angle, and that might have influenced the play enough to get a stop, but it probably wouldn't have been Walden making the tackle. Still, his play was undisiplined, as was Jones', and that goes for the safety Charles Woodson as well. 

 

In all, it was a good play call, well executed by Kaepernick, coupled with some over pursuit by at least three Packers defenders, that led to a touchdown.

Excellent analysis, as always, Superman

[Superman]

Good breakdown. I agree with you but I also think a case can be made that if Walden sets that edge a little wider (Maybe much wider) that forces Kaepernick to run up that middle which gives Jones a good but not great chance to make the play on Kaepernick or at least slow him down enough (potentially) for Woodson to continue on his inside path for the tackle, Either way Kaepernick read Jones but perhaps it would not have mattered is what Im thinking if Walden sets that edge a little wider if Kaepernick read Jones or not

 

That's very possible. We agree that Walden didn't do his job properly; he crashed too far inside. He should have been containing right around the hash mark, but he's biting on the play fake. My point is just that Walden isn't the only one that got fooled on that play. 

 

And since we play the Seahawks and the Niners this season, I'm sure that play right there will be analyzed in film study over the course of the year.