Nominate your Candidates for the Colt’s Mt. Rushmore

[HarassedOffTheSite]

By the way, I like how you picked out obscure Baltimore political hack politician Hyman Pressman out of the woodwork.

 

Obscure to you. But for those who were willing to dig deep enough, he is a Man who bares a tremendous amount of responsibility for the Colts move to Indianapolis.

 

 

I also enjoyed your overview of : The Move to Indianapolis: The True Story.

 

I'm glad.

 

 

While you certainly have many of the faux pas's included that were Baltimore's fault, you are very light on the antics of Robert Irsay. I may have to do my own version called,  The Move to Indianpolis : The Rest of the Story. I do believe if Irsay had been less abrasive at the time, he may well have gotten a stadium, and all the concessions that he wanted.

 

A thoroughly uninformed attempt at moral equivolence that seems straight out of the bitter Baltimore narrative...which always defaults to Robert Irsay's (the rightful owner of the Colts franchise) behavior instead of the lies of the Baltimore politicians and the petty childlike behavior of the local press (both of which dated back to Rosenbloom's ownership).

 

The fact is had the elected officials of Baltimore and Maryland handled themselves pre-move like they did post-move, the Colts would still be in Baltimore today. Unfortunately for the citizens of Baltimore, they did not. Instead of doing then what they would eventually do later, they attempted to steal the team outright. As a direct result, lost the Colts literally overnight. And to add insult to injury, the fans fell for the journalist's and politician's line; resulting in those politicians staying in office and never being held accountable for their decisions. And finally to add icing to the shabby cake, Baltimore stole Cleveland's team in the same manner in which they lost their own.

 

Just rich.

 

Peddle that somewhere else Brother. When it comes to this subject...the Truth wins out everytime.

[Deathiltis]

Obscure to you. But for those who were willing to dig deep enough, he is a Man who bares a tremendous amount of responsibility for the Colts move to Indianapolis.

 

 

 

I'm glad.

 

 

 

A thoroughly uninformed attempt at moral equivolence that seems straight out of the bitter Baltimore narrative...which always defaults to Robert Irsay's (the rightful owner of the Colts franchise) behavior instead of the lies of the Baltimore politicians and the petty childlike behavior of the local press (both of which dated back to Rosenbloom's ownership).

 

The fact is had the elected officials of Baltimore and Maryland handled themselves pre-move like they did post-move, the Colts would still be in Baltimore today. Unfortunately for the citizens of Baltimore, they did not. Instead of doing then what they would eventually do later, they attempted to steal the team outright. As a direct result, lost the Colts literally overnight. And to add insult to injury, the fans fell for the journalist's and politician's line; resulting in those politicians staying in office and never being held accountable for their decisions. And finally to add icing to the shabby cake, Baltimore stole Cleveland's team in the same manner in which they lost their own.

 

Just rich.

 

Peddle that somewhere else Brother. When it comes to this subject...the Truth wins out everytime.

 

Team stealers who hate team stealers.

[Steagles]

I'm including only the Indianapolis Colts here. Baltimore Colts with the Ravens and 1st Browns that became the Ravens with the current Browns.

Manning

Harrison

Freeney

James

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Team stealers who hate team stealers.

 

???

 

Nonsense.

 

I think the people of Indianapolis do not pay the citizens of Baltimore any mind at all much less 'hate' them. And if they are considering them, it is only as equals. When you do things right, when you're transparent, when you put in the work that eventually leads to reward, you have a quiet confidence that easily dismisses dishonorable accusations. The elected leaders and citizens of Indianapolis did everything right. The elected leaders and citizens of Baltimore did a lot, talked a lot. But it was obviously done wrong and they reaped what they'd sown.

 

I only point out the hypocrisy displayed by many who rail against Indianapolis and Robert Irsay...and gloss over/ignore the Browns franchise being brought to Baltimore the exact same way.

 

Seems pretty straightforward.

[The Old Crow]

Obscure to you. But for those who were willing to dig deep enough, he is a Man who bares a tremendous amount of responsibility for the Colts move to Indianapolis.

 

 

 

I'm glad.

 

 

 

A thoroughly uninformed attempt at moral equivolence that seems straight out of the bitter Baltimore narrative...which always defaults to Robert Irsay's (the rightful owner of the Colts franchise) behavior instead of the lies of the Baltimore politicians and the petty childlike behavior of the local press (both of which dated back to Rosenbloom's ownership).

 

The fact is had the elected officials of Baltimore and Maryland handled themselves pre-move like they did post-move, the Colts would still be in Baltimore today. Unfortunately for the citizens of Baltimore, they did not. Instead of doing then what they would eventually do later, they attempted to steal the team outright. As a direct result, lost the Colts literally overnight. And to add insult to injury, the fans fell for the journalist's and politician's line; resulting in those politicians staying in office and never being held accountable for their decisions. And finally to add icing to the shabby cake, Baltimore stole Cleveland's team in the same manner in which they lost their own.

 

Just rich.

 

Peddle that somewhere else Brother. When it comes to this subject...the Truth wins out everytime.

 

 

Brian ol' boy, it's funny how you have set yourself up as the ultimate authority on the move, with your one-sided little Wikipedia page that totally whitewashes Indianapolis, and totally blames Baltimore. Obviously, you have a guilt complex about the whole deal, or you wouldn't constantly have this article on your tag. Unlike you, I know it is a more complex story with blame going around to Baltimore officials, Indy officials, Irsay, and many others. As a football fan and  historian, I was in Baltimore at the time, and don't just rely on Wikipedia for my facts.

 

You certainly leave out Bob Irsay's horrible product he put on the field, the 2-14 and 0-8-1 seasons that caused attendance to drop. You leave out how he was shopping the team to Jacksonville, Charlotte, Indianapolis, and Phoenix, while they were still in Baltimore ! You leave out the drunken outbursts he had to fans , reporters, and even worse, his own players and management staff. You leave out the contract disputes he had with Colt players resulting in a loss of talent. You leave out his interference of the GM, which led to one of the worst trades in history in the John Elway affair. You forget his abrasiveness to Maryland politicians which thrwarted him from getting his agenda. You forget at the end, Baltimore gave him a better package than Indy offered him, but he still left anyway. This is your Wiki selective memory.

 

Secondly, you were an aggressor city at the time. You built a stadium specifically to lure a team from another NFL town. That is a fact Unlike what Hudnut did, Baltimore did attempt to get an expansion franchise FOR 12 YEARS, before they were forced to go after another NFL team. We were also an aggressor city at the end, unfortunately. Unlike you, I at least admit that I didn't like the way Baltimore got the Browns. I still feel bad for Cleveland. I don't whitewash what we did to Cleveland, but at least they kept their football heritage.  I am no longer bitter towards Indy, as I'm fine with the Colts there now, it is a good NFL town, and they are good fans. The Ravens have won two Super Bowls so I'm good with it , man. As I've stated, I only wish the Baltimore Colts heritage was more clear in league records and the Hall of Fame.

 

I've seen many fans that don't understand this story, with the same kind of entitlement personality. First, you don't even realize the landscape of Baltimore the the late 1970's and early 1980's . It wasn't a rich city, and there were other needs that had to be addressed. You forget that the Northeast was going through a tough economic time then, and actually New York City had declared bankruptcy at the time. I've admitted to the stupidity of many of the Maryland politicians at that time, and there is a whole new crop of them are there today, but you can't lay it totally on Baltimore. Obviously, the eminent domain deal was *ic.  You need to admit that Indy officials premeditatedly went after any NFL team they could get their hands on, and that Irsay was as much at fault, as Baltimore officials at the time. Of course, I know you won't , because these facts don't fit with your white-washed wiki summary you drummed up.

 

So let me lay some facts on you brother, you're argueing with the wrong Baltimore guy. You're debating a fair Baltimore guy who understands the history of the move, and is fair and balanced about it. You're talking to a Baltimore guy that is no longer bitter, fine with the Colts in Indy, and is still a Baltimore Colts and Baltimore Ravens fan. I like the city of Indianpolis, I travel there alot, like the stadium, and fans. I would tell you to do a bit more research into this story, and see if you come out with a more balanced conclusion. I suggest you go beyond Wikipedia, and delve into first hand narratives, and news stories of the time, if you are really interested in NFL history. It really is a fascinating story, if you take the emotions out of it, and stop trying to score a few cheap points.

 

Finally, I will say this for the record. I am fine with the way things turned out. Baltimore has the Ravens, Indy has the Colts, and Cleveland has the Browns. Because the Colts were in Baltimore and Indianapolis, the heritage belongs to both cities, whether we like it or not. We can debate the franchise or city thing, but what I've learned is that I'm glad that Indy fans have an interest in the Baltimore years. It's never a bad thing for younger fans to be interested in NFL history. I've got a great sense of humor about everything, but you're coming off as the Chief Inquisitor against Baltimore. That is not going to fly with me.

[Blueblazes]

Back to the topic:

 

I've been a Baltimore Colts fan and Indy Colts fan (more than a fan actually-a crazed fan):

 

Baltimore Colts:                       Indy Colts:                         Colts Franchise:

 

Johnny Unitas                          Peyton Manning                Johnny Unitas

Raymond Berry                       Marvin Harrison                 Peyton Manning

Gino Marchetti                         Dwight Freeney                Raymond Berry

Lenny Moore                           Edgerrin James                 Marvin Harrison

[The Old Crow]

Back to the topic:

 

I've been a Baltimore Colts fan and Indy Colts fan (more than a fan actually-a crazed fan):

 

Baltimore Colts:                       Indy Colts:                         Colts Franchise:

 

Johnny Unitas                          Peyton Manning                Johnny Unitas

Raymond Berry                       Marvin Harrison                 Peyton Manning

Gino Marchetti                         Dwight Freeney                Raymond Berry

Lenny Moore                           Edgerrin James                 Marvin Harrison

 

Sorry I got off topic, but had to rebut. Now that's a fair and balanced approach !!! Good lists !

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Brian ol' boy, it's funny how you have set yourself up as the ultimate authority on the move

 

I’ve done no such thing. Don’t hate me for knowing more than you and for not slanting it in the childish perspective of Baltimore types.

 

 

 

Obviously, you have a guilt complex about the whole deal…

 

LOLOL yeah, that’s what it is.

 

 

 

Unlike you, I know it is a more complex story

 

It always is for people who do not like the way facts fall and who want to manipulate them.

 

 

 

I was in Baltimore at the time…

 

THAT is obvious.

 

 

 

You certainly leave out Bob Irsay's horrible product he put on the field

 

I don’t ignore it. I just don’t care about it. He continued to put a terrible product on the field in Indianapolis as well. So what.

 

 

 

You leave out how he was shopping the team to Jacksonville, Charlotte, Indianapolis, and Phoenix, while they were still in Baltimore

 

I do not such thing. I actually point out other cities as well.

 

 

 

You leave out the drunken outbursts he had to fans , reporters, and even worse, his own players and management staff.

 

Because none of that is equal to or excuses the actions of the politicians of Baltimore and Maryland….like you painfully want it to.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

You leave out the contract disputes he had with Colt players resulting in a loss of talent.

 

Because none of that is equal to or excuses the actions of the politicians of Baltimore and Maryland….like you painfully want it to.

 

 

 

You leave out his interference of the GM, which led to one of the worst trades in history in the John Elway affair.

 

Because none of that is equal to or excuses the actions of the politicians of Baltimore and Maryland….like you painfully want it to.

 

 

 

You forget his abrasiveness to Maryland politicians which thrwarted him from getting his agenda.

 

Because none of that is equal to or excuses the actions of the politicians of Baltimore and Maryland….like you painfully want it to.

 

 

 

You forget at the end, Baltimore gave him a better package than Indy offered him, but he still left anyway.

 

Because that is not true. LOLOL had they given him a better deal, he would not have left. LOLOL

 

 

 

Secondly, you were an aggressor city at the time.

 

Oh here we go. The victim card.

 

 

 

You built a stadium specifically to lure a team from another NFL town.

 

Sure did. And you had a team and didn’t build a stadium to keep it.

 

 

 

Baltimore did attempt to get an expansion franchise FOR 12 YEARS, before they were forced to go after another NFL team.

 

LOLOL folks made Baltimore do it?

[HarassedOffTheSite]

We were also an aggressor city at the end, unfortunately.

 

So, you admit the hypocrisy.

 

I at least admit that I didn't like the way Baltimore got the Browns.

 

That’s your cross to bare. I love how Indianapolis did it.

 

I still feel bad for Cleveland.

 

I don’t feel bad for Baltimore. Not one bit.

 

I don't whitewash what we did to Cleveland, but at least they kept their football heritage.

 

The league made yall do it.

 

I am no longer bitter towards Indy

 

You sure?

 

It is a good NFL town, and they are good fans.

 

Sure is.

 

As I've stated, I only wish the Baltimore Colts heritage was more clear in league records and the Hall of Fame.

 

Perhaps if you hadn’t tried to STEAL the team from it’s rightful owner, that would’ve happened. Oh well.

 

I've seen many fans that don't understand this story…

 

You’re one of them.

 

 

[HarassedOffTheSite]

 

First, you don't even realize the landscape of Baltimore the the late 1970's and early 1980's . It wasn't a rich city, and there were other needs that had to be addressed.

 

But once the team left, it became THE top agenda for the Baltimore mayor and governor. ;/

 

You forget that the Northeast was going through a tough economic time

 

No I didn’t.

 

I've admitted to the stupidity of many of the Maryland politicians at that time

 

Then stop right there. Because had they not been, Baltimore would still be the home of the Colts.

 

You need to admit that Indy officials premeditatedly went after any NFL team they could get their hands on.

 

They sure did! And I applaud them for doing so. Had Baltimore operated with the same zeal in keeping what they had…the Colts would still be in Baltimore.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

…and that Irsay was as much at fault, as Baltimore officials at the time.

 

No. He unlike Orioles ownership said he was patient. He unlike Orioles ownership continued to negotiate with Baltimore & Maryland’s politicians. And like a very good businessman he had discussions with other cities willing to do what it takes to have an NFL franchise. He leveraged those discussions like a good businessman and eventually would’ve gotten exactly what was needed from your politicians. Unfortunately, those politicians turned into criminals and attempted to use the law to steal the franchise from him. And as a result, lost the team completely. That is Baltimore and Maryland’s fault, not Irsay’s.

 

 

 

 

…you're argueing with the wrong Baltimore guy.

 

I’m stating facts.

 

 

 

You're debating a fair Baltimore guy who understands the history of the move, and is fair and balanced about it.

 

Yeah, I don’t know what that means. I’d rather you stick to reality than notions.

 

 

 

You're talking to a Baltimore guy that is no longer bitter

 

That is obviously not true.

 

 

 

The Colts were in Baltimore and Indianapolis, the heritage belongs to both cities

 

No, it doesn’t. It belongs to the team.

 

 

 

…whether we like it or not.

 

Whether you like it or not.

 

 

 

…but you're coming off as the Chief Inquisitor against Baltimore. That is not going to fly with me.

 

When the facts do not support the Baltimore narrative, the person writing the facts is transformed into an inquisitor. Got it.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

It is these silly notions that caused me to dig into this story and ultimately write "The Move To Indianapolis - The True Story". I listened to all of the recriminations from old Baltimore types. The story just didn't sound right so I decided to go digging for myself. From where I sit, responsibility for the entire mess rests squarely on the elected officials of Baltimore...and therefore, the people of Baltimore. Nobody can rightly fault Indy or Robert Irsay. Was he a serious jerk? Sure was. Is that somehow equal to the polticians of Baltimore and Maryland attempting to become thieves and steal the franchise from him.....not even close. Being a jerk gets you a slap in the face...being a thief gets you a prison cell. The fault is not equal, not by a long shot.

[The Old Crow]

The little Wiki piece is a testiment to yellow journalism , full of half-truths, and a portion of the story. I love when people research things to come to their own conclusions. Facts don't matter, and the ends always justify the means. It's beautiful how Indianapolis built a stadium, was having secret negotiations with other city's, and comes out scot clean in your world. In everyone else's world, Bob Irsay was a bad owner in Baltimore and Indy, not a very nice person, but to you, he was a good businessman , like Ebeneezer Scrooge. You paraphrase other writer's comments to drive home false points, and don't really rebut the facts.

 

Obviously, you admit to liking the idea of stealing teams. It doesn't surprise me. It's thinking like your own, that keeps some people in Baltimore and Cleveland still angry. Unlike those two city's that lost teams, your city never lost one, but that's all right, because you got yours, and you obviously have no empathy for any other NFL fans.

 

We don't need you to feel bad for Baltimore. We just won our second Super Bowl as the Ravens, and have four more NFL Championships we saw as fans of the Baltimore Colts. By the way, the Orioles are now tied for first place. We're fine , but thanks for asking !!

 

If these are your facts on this story, you may be some sort of inquisitor, but you're a total homer, and non-NFL historian. I suggest you do a little more digging on this story. As a former journalist, may I suggest you look up some first person narratives, look at actual newspaper articles, and not just Wikipedia on the internet. You may want to delve more into the histories of Bob Irsay, Mayor Hudnut, and Mayor Shaeffer, and not just rely on thris hand internet blogs.

[IndyTrav]

ALOT of all 4 picks being Offense. Can't do that.

Peyton- that's a given.

Saturday- embodied the Colts culture for our "run". Undrafted FA who played his way into our hearts.

Dungy- I personally wasn't a huge fan of his coaching. But no denying his culturally impact both on and off the field.

Irsay Jr- model owner.

[The Old Crow]

No. He unlike Orioles ownership said he was patient. He unlike Orioles ownership continued to negotiate with Baltimore & Maryland’s politicians. And like a very good businessman he had discussions with other cities willing to do what it takes to have an NFL franchise. He leveraged those discussions like a good businessman and eventually would’ve gotten exactly what was needed from your politicians. Unfortunately, those politicians turned into criminals and attempted to use the law to steal the franchise from him. And as a result, lost the team completely. That is Baltimore and Maryland’s fault, not Irsay’s.

 

 

 

 

 

I’m stating facts.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I don’t know what that means. I’d rather you stick to reality than notions.

 

 

 

 

That is obviously not true.

 

 

 

 

No, it doesn’t. It belongs to the team.

 

 

 

 

Whether you like it or not.

 

 

 

 

When the facts do not support the Baltimore narrative, the person writing the facts is transformed into an inquisitor. Got it.

 

 

Here are some facts :

 

1. Trust me, I've forgotten more about the Baltimore Colts than you'll ever know. I lived it !!

2.  If you don't feel guilty, why do you keep that Wiki article on your tag ? You must be defending your guilt . You don't see me jamming the Baltimore perspective down people's throats.

3. I've presented a more factual two-sided part of the move, then your one sided diatribes.

4. You admit Bob Irsay was a bad owner, but don't factor it in at all in the move.

5. The politicians of Baltimore were certainly at partial fault, but you give Indy politicians a complete pass. The stadium just didn't spring up overnight.

6. You may think the heritage only belongs to Indy, but why does it say Baltimore all over your records. Most NFL fans only give you credit for the Indy years. Same goes for the Ravens.

7. I guess Cleveland lost the Browns because the politicians were mean to Modell, and baltimore was a thief.. Of course, that is alright to you because you always want to slam Baltimore as thieves, while excluding yourself. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

I think most of these facts you cite came out of the Baltimore Colt's move comic book. I'm at least fair in saying Baltimore made mistakes, but all you're looking for are facts that fit into your narrow view of events. That is what I call hypocrisy!

[Kenny]

It's fine however you want to define it. They are the Indianapolis Colts now, but just remember you can take the Colts out of Baltimore, but you can't take Baltimore out of the Colts. It's a fragmented, but very good history.

 

Never would want to take anything out of the franchise, figured my stating "No matter what city the franchise was in at the time the Colts are the Colts blah blah" would have been enough of a hint towards that. If I took that a little too hostile sorry today has been about as awesome as 9/11 so nerves are a little shot.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

"I've forgotten more about the Baltimore Colts..."

 

That sir is obvious.

 

 

 

"...why do you keep that Wiki article on your tag..."

 

Hahaha it is a blog entry on Colts.com and I have explained why. Pay attention.

 

 

 

You don't see me jamming the Baltimore perspective down people's throats.

 

Because everyone has heard it. Tale as old as time. "It is always someone else's fault"

 

 

 

I've presented a more factual two-sided part of the move, then your one sided diatribes.

 

I have thoroughly sourced every fact. Unlike you. And if I were to present the Baltimore "fans" side, I would've been forced to clown it. It is embarassing. The fact that you do not recognize it means you subscribe to it. And that is unfortunate.

 

 

 

You admit Bob Irsay was a bad owner, but don't factor it in at all in the move.

 

There are 15 bad owners in the NFL. And none of them move. Being a bad owner has ZERO to do with the Colts move to Indy. Bad politicians (elected by the people of Maryland) has everything to do with it. Therefore, it is the majority of the retelling.

 

 

 

The politicians of Baltimore were certainly at partial fault, but you give Indy politicians a complete pass.

 

Because unlike Baltimore politicians, Indy's did nothing wrong and everything right.

 

 

 

You may think the heritage only belongs to Indy

 

Are you on drugs or something? I clearly said it belongs to the team.

 

 

 

I guess Cleveland lost the Browns because the politicians were mean to Modell

 

What a childish tac. Each situation was different. However, the hypocrisy in Baltimore fans whining about Indianapolis and then turning around and doing the exact same thing is too funny.

 

 

 

...you always want to slam Baltimore as thieves...

 

What would you call the Eminent Domain bill passed by the Maryland legislature and signed by the Governor taking ownership of the Colts franchise away from Robert Irsay...the team's rightful owner?

 

 

I think most of these facts you cite came out of the Baltimore Colt's move comic book.

 

If you can factually refute a single one, then do so.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I suggest you look up some first person narratives, look at actual newspaper articles, and not just Wikipedia on the internet. You may want to delve more into the histories of Bob Irsay, Mayor Hudnut, and Mayor Shaeffer, and not just rely on thris hand internet blogs.

 

LOLOL you really aren't paying attention are you?

[Tark The Shark]

Franchise picks (Baltimore & Indianapolis):

 

Unitas, Manning, Harrison, Marchetti, Freeney.

 

Baltimore Era:

 

Unitas, Berry, Marchetti, Lipscomb, Donovan.

 

Indianapolis Era:

 

Manning, Edge, Harrison, Freeney, Mathis.

 

Joke picks:

 

Painter, Baskett, Caldwell, Simon, Ugoh.

[The Old Crow]

That sir is obvious.

 

 

 

 

Hahaha it is a blog entry on Colts.com and I have explained why. Pay attention.

 

 

 

 

Because everyone has heard it. Tale as old as time. "It is always someone else's fault"

 

 

 

 

I have thoroughly sourced every fact. Unlike you. And if I were to present the Baltimore "fans" side, I would've been forced to clown it. It is embarassing. The fact that you do not recognize it means you subscribe to it. And that is unfortunate.

 

 

 

 

There are 15 bad owners in the NFL. And none of them move. Being a bad owner has ZERO to do with the Colts move to Indy. Bad politicians (elected by the people of Maryland) has everything to do with it. Therefore, it is the majority of the retelling.

 

 

 

 

Because unlike Baltimore politicians, Indy's did nothing wrong and everything right.

 

 

 

 

Are you on drugs or something? I clearly said it belongs to the team.

 

 

 

 

What a childish tac. Each situation was different. However, the hypocrisy in Baltimore fans whining about Indianapolis and then turning around and doing the exact same thing is too funny.

 

 

 

 

What would you call the Eminent Domain bill passed by the Maryland legislature and signed by the Governor taking ownership of the Colts franchise away from Robert Irsay...the team's rightful owner?

 

 

 

If you can factually refute a single one, then do so.

 

1. Hudnut and the Indiana Sports Commission specifically built a stadium to lure an NFL team, but that isn't thieving. It's only applies when Baltimore does it to Cleveland.

 

2.  I don't think I totally blamed you guys for the move, it was a combination of things.

 

3. I don't like eminent domain for any reason, lets get that straight. If Irsay had to leave I'm fine with it. I just wish he would have left the Colt's records in Baltimore. I am glad he left, and glad for the way things have turned out with the Ravens.

 

4. You slam Baltimore for what they did to Cleveland, but your city did nothing to lure another team ? C'mon man !

 

5. When did I ever say stealing the Browns was the right thing ? I would have preferred an expansion team, but your owner Irsay, who promised to vote for a new expansion team for Baltimore, voted against us. Another lie and broken promise by Irsay.

 

6. So Modell and Al Davis weren't bad owners ? Both moved. They had some success early, but both their franchises fell into shambles. Modell's economic woes forced a move. Bad owners do move because of greed, and other factors.

 

7. The NFL voted against the move of the Colts to Indianapolis. Irsay didn't follow league rules, as usual. You could argue the Colts by NFL bylaw, illegally moved to Indy, at the time.

 

 

I'm not sure what else to tell you. It's obvious you are jealous and hostile towards Baltimore, and blame me for critisim's you may have gotten from other Baltimore fans. To call your version, " The True Story, ' is highly pompous, and I think a bit over the top. It may be better titles, A Hoosier Zealot's Story of the Colt's Move."

[funktacious2]

Peyton Manning

Marvin Harrison

Johnny Unit as

Jim Irsay

If only players then swap Irsay for Edge or Freeney.

[BOTT]

I like when Indy fans bring up the , ' they have been in Indy longer than Baltimore argument," like the Baltimore years will just go away, or be totally merged by Indianapolis. Unfortunately, it's like the Brookyn Dodgers , just featured in the film 42, or the Baltimore Colts in the movie Diner. You just can't eraseor change history, much as you may want to. For example, under Super Bowls, it will always read Baltimore/Indianapolis Colts 2-2. I'm really surprised that Indy fans are so interested in the Baltimore part of Colts history. It's fascinating.

Like the Browns history will just go away from the Ravens....

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Hudnut and the Indiana Sports Commission specifically built a stadium to lure an NFL team, but that isn't thieving.

 

First of all, stop making unfounded accusations and then not addressing my corrections of your errors.

 

LOLOL no. They did not build the Hoosier Dome in order to take ownership of a team. They did it so the City of Indianapolis could be the home of a team. There is a VERY big difference. Baltimore demanded to be the home of the team and attempted to take ownership to make it so. If you cannot understand the fundamental differences between the two then there is no reason to continue to have this discussion with you.

 

 

 

I don't think I totally blamed you guys for the move, it was a combination of things.

 

A combination of things led the incompetent Baltimore Mayor’s office to first suggest using Eminent Domain laws to take over a privately owned business. And a combination of things led up to the incompetent Maryland Legislature passing such a bill and a combination of things led up to the incompetent Governor of Maryland signing the bill into law. Nevertheless, none of those things justified what they did. However, Irsay’s immediate move was overwhelmingly justified by any measure of freedom and plain old business sense. 

 

 

 

I don't like eminent domain for any reason, lets get that straight. If Irsay had to leave I'm fine with it.

 

Then stop accusing him and the City of Indianapolis of doing something wrong.

 

 

 

I just wish he would have left the Colt's records in Baltimore.

 

Those things do not belong to the city of Baltimore. They were not accomplishments achieved by the city of Baltimore. They were achieved by the Colts football team and therefore belong to the Colts football team. Just another example of the citizens of Baltimore attempting to take something that does not belong to them.

 

 

 

You slam Baltimore for what they did to Cleveland

 

I did no such thing. I pointed out the OBVIOUS hypocrisy in railing accusations against the City of Indianapolis and then turning around and doing the exact same thing. What part of hypocrisy do you not understand? 

 

 

 

Your owner Irsay, who promised to vote for a new expansion team for Baltimore, voted against us. Another lie and broken promise by Irsay.

 

Oh well. That’s what happens when you try to steal a guy’s business from him. That’s what happens when your politicians break promises with him. You end up reaping what you sowed.

 

 

 

The NFL voted against the move of the Colts to Indianapolis.

 

It did no such thing. Quite the contrary the Palm Beach Post reported that on March 2, 1983 “NFL owners voted to give Irsay permission to move his franchise to the city of his choosing.” Nice try. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1964&dat=19840317&id=nQEtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=gs4FAAAAIBAJ&pg=6386,5720471

 

 

 

I'm not sure what else to tell you.

 

Try the truth. It always garners more credibility than rantings motivated more by bitterness & unforgiveness than reality.

[Deathiltis]

???

 

Nonsense.

 

I think the people of Indianapolis do not pay the citizens of Baltimore any mind at all much less 'hate' them. And if they are considering them, it is only as equals. When you do things right, when you're transparent, when you put in the work that eventually leads to reward, you have a quiet confidence that easily dismisses dishonorable accusations. The elected leaders and citizens of Indianapolis did everything right. The elected leaders and citizens of Baltimore did a lot, talked a lot. But it was obviously done wrong and they reaped what they'd sown.

 

I only point out the hypocrisy displayed by many who rail against Indianapolis and Robert Irsay...and gloss over/ignore the Browns franchise being brought to Baltimore the exact same way.

 

Seems pretty straightforward.

 

Other way around. I was talking about Baltimore (team stealers) hated Indianapolis ("team stealers").

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Other way around. I was talking about Baltimore (team stealers) hated Indianapolis ("team stealers").

 

Oh forgive me. My spurs were up. I apologize.

[The Old Crow]

First of all, stop making unfounded accusations and then not addressing my corrections of your errors.

 

LOLOL no. They did not build the Hoosier Dome in order to take ownership of a team. They did it so the City of Indianapolis could be the home of a team. There is a VERY big difference. Baltimore demanded to be the home of the team and attempted to take ownership to make it so. If you cannot understand the fundamental differences between the two then there is no reason to continue to have this discussion with you.

 

 

 

 

A combination of things led the incompetent Baltimore Mayor’s office to first suggest using Eminent Domain laws to take over a privately owned business. And a combination of things led up to the incompetent Maryland Legislature passing such a bill and a combination of things led up to the incompetent Governor of Maryland signing the bill into law. Nevertheless, none of those things justified what they did. However, Irsay’s immediate move was overwhelmingly justified by any measure of freedom and plain old business sense. 

 

 

 

 

Then stop accusing him and the City of Indianapolis of doing something wrong.

 

 

 

 

Those things do not belong to the city of Baltimore. They were not accomplishments achieved by the city of Baltimore. They were achieved by the Colts football team and therefore belong to the Colts football team. Just another example of the citizens of Baltimore attempting to take something that does not belong to them.

 

 

 

 

I did no such thing. I pointed out the OBVIOUS hypocrisy in railing accusations against the City of Indianapolis and then turning around and doing the exact same thing. What part of hypocrisy do you not understand? 

 

 

 

 

Oh well. That’s what happens when you try to steal a guy’s business from him. That’s what happens when your politicians break promises with him. You end up reaping what you sowed.

 

 

 

 

It did no such thing. Quite the contrary the Palm Beach Post reported that on March 2, 1983 “NFL owners voted to give Irsay permission to move his franchise to the city of his choosing.” Nice try. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1964&dat=19840317&id=nQEtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=gs4FAAAAIBAJ&pg=6386,5720471

 

 

 

 

Try the truth. It always garners more credibility than rantings motivated more by bitterness & unforgiveness than reality.

 

 

1. It's all semantics.When you build a stadium to lure a team, that is stealing !

 

2. Irsay was still profitable in Baltimore. He wanted to be more profitable.

 

3. Indy lured the Colts, as did the other city's. It is seperate from Eminent Domain. They were negotiating before Eminent Domain !

 

4. If events happened in baltimore, it's not part of baltimore history ? It was accomplished by the Colt's football team at the time, the Baltimore Colts at that time.

 

5. The Palm Beach Post article was later. This was only after the NFL became scardy cats because of the Al Davis lawsuit at the time.

 

6. Why should Baltimore fans suffer. I thought Irsay was mad at the politicians. He still broke another promise and failed to do the right thing.

 

7. I'm fine with Indy having the team. I'm not railing against the present, just trying to make you understand the past, through a larger prism.

 

8. I must be a bitter guy with two Super Bowls since 2000 !

[The Old Crow]

Other way around. I was talking about Baltimore (team stealers) hated Indianapolis ("team stealers").

 

 

Yet Cleveland and Baltimore had at least one team stolen, and you guys had none, and only you are innocent. Hudnut, and the rest of the Sports commission, would have kept looking for city's that had stadium issues, ownership problems, until they lured someone away to fill that stadium. Does that sound like a city that is free from tampering, or just happened to have an open stadium when Irsay was looking around ? C'mon guys, you know better than that. Everyone has a little bit of dirt on their shirts with these deals.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

It's all semantics. When you build a stadium to lure a team, that is stealing!

 

You’re simply incorrect by any stretch of the imagination (and exclusion of reality). And willfully so.

 

Irsay was still profitable in Baltimore.

 

That is right! And that is why the Eminent Domain Legislation was so overwhelmingly unjust. You cannot come in and seize a financially successful privately owned business because you simply do not like the way it is administrated.

 

He wanted to make more profits

 

And?

 

Indy lured the Colts, as did the other city's. It is seperate from Eminent Domain. They were negotiating before Eminent Domain

 

Yeah I don’t even know what that means. A Private business owner isn’t allowed to negotiate with other cities for incentives to move his or her business to that location?  

 

If events happened in baltimore, it's not part of baltimore history ? It was accomplished by the Colt's football team at the time, the Baltimore Colts at that time.

 

You understand completely. You just don’t like how the facts play out. Your problem.

 

The Palm Beach Post article was later. This was only after the NFL became scardy cats because of the Al Davis lawsuit at the time.

 

You said…

 

The NFL voted against the move of the Colts to Indianapolis.

 

That was patently false. Quite the contrary, the NFL owners voted to allow him to move.  

 

Why should Baltimore fans suffer.

 

That is what happen when you elect incompetent leaders; the people suffer.

 

I'm fine with Indy having the team. I'm not railing against the present, just trying to make you understand the past, through a larger prism.

 

No you are not. You’re attempting to paint an incorrect picture based on the hyperbole, feelings and incorrect assumptions of Baltimore fans. You are also attempting to do it at the expense of the truth and you are doing so willfully.

 

I must be a bitter guy…

 

…speak it.

[The Old Crow]

You’re simply incorrect by any stretch of the imagination (and exclusion of reality). And willfully so.

 

 

 

 

That is right! And that is why the Eminent Domain Legislation was so overwhelmingly unjust. You cannot come in and seize a financially successful privately owned business because you simply do not like the way it is administrated.

 

 

 

 

And?

 

 

 

 

Yeah I don’t even know what that means. A Private business owner isn’t allowed to negotiate with other cities for incentives to move his or her business to that location?  

 

 

 

 

You understand completely. You just don’t like how the facts play out. Your problem.

 

 

 

 

You said…

 

 

 

 

That was patently false. Quite the contrary, the NFL owners voted to allow him to move.  

 

 

 

 

That is what happen when you elect incompetent leaders; the people suffer.

 

 

 

 

No you are not. You’re attempting to paint an incorrect picture based on the hyperbole, feelings and incorrect assumptions of Baltimore fans. You are also attempting to do it at the expense of the truth and you are doing so willfully.

 

 

 

 

…speak it.

 

 

I'm not trying to paint an incorrect picture of the feelings of Baltimore fans. I am one Baltimore fan who actually lived through this history, and understands the bigger picture. I have my own opinion of the move, and what caused it.  I'm honored you have selected me as Baltimore's mouthpiece.  

 

Were you even born in 1984 ? That doesn't disqualify you from your opinion, but just curious. Look, when you build a stadium before you have a team, have the owner's son and lawyer in town, tamper with another city's team, there is no way you weren't involved in some shennanigans that contributed to the move.

 

Bob Irsay's actions, and poor ownership, and horrible public relations, alienated politicians , fans , and his players. Even his own mother and wife spoke out against him. He was a very hard man to negotiate with during this time. Look how he handled the Elway situation, was that the Maryland politicians fault ? His lack of communication and blustering helped cause the ill-advised Eminent Domain legislation. I'm not saying it was right, but the man was very troubled at the time. His own son even tells stories about these times, and how they made him cringe.

 

It's very clever how you are taking my quotes out of context, and comment with little sound bites. The fact of the matter is, you've provided a one-sided, and historically half-accurate story about the move from Baltimore. I love how the facts have played out. I have two Lombardi trophies at the raven's facility, and the Super Bowl Five trophy is at our museum in Baltimore. It has all worked out well for everyone .  You have the Colts, we have the Ravens, Cleveland has the Browns, the Irsays are rich, the Maryland politicians still stink, and all is well. It is not bitter to put a larger context to the story you are peddling to the greater forum. It's getting all the facts out.

[Fx Stryker]

As a couple were saying Johnny had ill-feelings and may have said some not so nice things against the Colts.

 

However he passed away before we became a winning franchise again. He didn't get to watch Peyton and the gang make us a proud franchise again. I think if he did he would have seen the class Peyton, Tony, and everyone else held themselves with. Especially when Peyton was addressed questions about Johnny. He spoke nothing but respect for him.

 

I would like to believe he would have been able to embrace the Colts and continue to embrace the city of Baltimore and the Ravens.

[The Old Crow]

As a couple were saying Johnny had ill-feelings and may have said some not so nice things against the Colts.

 

However he passed away before we became a winning franchise again. He didn't get to watch Peyton and the gang make us a proud franchise again. I think if he did he would have seen the class Peyton, Tony, and everyone else held themselves with. Especially when Peyton was addressed questions about Johnny. He spoke nothing but respect for him.

 

I would like to believe he would have been able to embrace the Colts and continue to embrace the city of Baltimore and the Ravens.

 

 

I think he probably would have, like Raymond Berry did. Trust me, alot of people in Baltimore like Peyton, because he handled himself with class, like Johnny Unitas. I see alot of similarities between the two, and I believe he would have been impressed by the Colt's run during the Peyton Manning era. I also believe he would be impressed with Luck.  

[derek]

just from indy era..

 

 

Peyton, Marvin, Freeney, and Saturday

[HarassedOffTheSite]

S.O.S.

 

Excuse maker and accuser.

 

Typical.

[The Old Crow]

S.O.S.

 

Excuse maker and accuser.

 

Typical.

 

 

Winner, winner, chicken dinner . Game , set, and match !

[The Old Crow]

S.O.S.

 

Excuse maker and accuser.

 

Typical.

 

 

I have further news for you. the great businessman and humanitarian you defend against the evil people of Baltimore was 0 for 25 in winning a Super Bowl ! 1972-1997, zero !!! Baltimore Ravens 1996-2013, Seventeen years, two Super Bowls !! I think you hitched your story to a loser. You have a better chance of defending the son, who is a decent owner, with a decent record, and who has won a Super Bowl. He won a Super Bowl title in 2006 for Indy. I would stick to the positive future you currently have, and not defend a loser from the past who is panned almost universally by people in Baltimore, Indy, and the NFL. The move, for all of it's profit, never resulted in a Super Bowl title. Bob Irsay was as big of a failure in Indianapolis, as he was in Baltimore. Both Bob Irsay, and your story, should be confined to the dustbin of history !

[HarassedOffTheSite]

The Hustle:

 

"You're debating a fair Baltimore guy who...is fair and balanced...you're talking to a Baltimore guy that is no longer bitter...I am fine with the way things turned out"

 

The reality:

 

"…you (Indianapolis) were an aggressor city…It's beautiful how Indianapolis built a stadium, was having secret negotiations with other city's football team…you admit to liking the idea of stealing teams…you're a total homer, and non-NFL historian...you give Indy politicians a complete pass. The stadium just didn't spring up overnight…Hudnut and the Indiana Sports Commission specifically built a stadium to lure an NFL team, but that isn't thieving…When you build a stadium to lure a team, that is stealing!...Indy lured the Colts…Were you even born in 1984… the great businessman and humanitarian was 0 for 25 in winning a Super Bowl…zero!!!...you hitched your story to a loser...Both Bob Irsay, and your story, should be confined to the dustbin of history!"

 

-grin-

[The Old Crow]

The Hustle:

 

 

The reality:

 

 

-grin-

 

The Propoganda :

 

The Fold :

 

-smirk-

[The Old Crow]

The Hustle:

 

 

The reality:

 

 

-grin-

 

 

Whew, lets see how clever I am. Let's take some quotes out of context, mix them up, put them together, and come up with a wrong conclusion. Sounds alot like the self-proclaimed, "The Move to Indianapolis- The True Story ."  Man, I showed everyone on the forum he's a Baltimore guy ! I'm a genious. Problem is, everyone knows I'm a Baltimore guy, so there is no hustle here, and you're not some great undercover reporter. You'd like to make everyone in Baltimore fit into your mold and  perception of an evil  Baltimore fan, much as you crafted your oportunistic story out of the Wiki files. You do a great job of taking individual sentences out of a greater context, throwing them together, and coming up with little tidbits, sound bites, and quips, that fit your point of view. It is the clever ruse of a third-rate propogandist.

 

You couldn't deny there was a larger story to the move besides your one-sided treatise blaming everything on Baltimore, so you're next step is to declare me the stereotypical Baltimore guy. Whatever, I think I've strived to be fair on the forum, and am not always the Baltimore homer you claim me to be. However, your point of view is of a complete Indy homer. Unlike you, I took into account all sides of the story during the move. I fairly put some blame on all parties, because it is always that way. Much as you've taken my quotes out of context, you took the story of the move out of context, to fit your view of it. The way you research things, you would take the Battle of the Little Big Horn, read only the 7th Calvary version, and ignore the Indian side, because it doesn't fit your view of the battle, and you didn't like the Indians. That is an example, but shows how your hatred of Baltimore doesn't allow you to be objective about the move.

[shakedownstreet]

you two need to get a room. neither is going to convince the other