Comparing Top 50's... (NFL.com and ESPN.com)

[NewColtsFan]

I don't know if I can format this correctly....   but I'm going to try.

 

I'm doing this to show you two things.  

 

One, the broad difference of opinion.   The two boards are clearly very, very different.   The point is teams see the same thing in very different ways.

 

And if the player you love isn't here, well, then he's ranked below the top-50.  

 

Two,  the number of quality players ranked between 24-50 that we could still get even if we trade down.

 

 

NFL.COM                                                       ESPN.COM

 

1.   Warmack          OG                                   Joeckel              OT

2.   Joeckel             OT                                    Fisher                OT

3.   Floyd                 DT                                    Star L                DT

4.   Jordan              DE                                    Milliner               CB

5.   Fisher                OT                                   Jordan               OLB

6.   Milliner              CB                                   Floyd                  DT

7.   Johnson            OT                                   Ansah                DE

8.   Mingo                DE                                   Warmack           OG

9.   Star L                DT                                    Cooper              OG

10.  Austin              WR                                   Johnson             OT

11.  Ansah              DE                                    Richardson        DT

12.  Richardson      DT                                    Mingo                OLB

13.  Cyprien             S                                      Ogletree           ILB

14.  Patterson        WR                                    Austin                WR

15.  Brown             LB                                     Eifert                  TE

16.  Jones             OLB                                   Vaccaro              S

17.  Warford            OG                                   Sly Williams       DT

18.  Werner            DE                                     Trufant              CB

19.  Smith               QB                                    Jones                OLB

20.  Moore              DE                                    G.Smith             QB

21.  Hopkins            WR                                   DJ Fluker           OT

22.  Vaccarro          S                                      Allen                   WR

23.  Teo                   ILB                                   Werner              DE

24.  Cooper             OG                                    Teo                   ILB

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25.  Allen                 WR                                  Hayden               CB

26.  Rhodes             CB                                   Jenkins              NT

27.  D.Jones            DE                                    Pugh                 OL

28.  DJ Fluker          OT                                   Watson              OT

29.  J. Taylor            CB                                  J.Taylor              CB

30.  J. Williams        DT                                   D. Jones             DE

31.  T. Carradine     DE                                   K. Short              DT

32.  A. Okafor          DE                                   Barkley              QB

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33.  M. Watson        OT                                   Long                   OL

34.  J. Banks           CB                                   Hunter                WR

35.  D. Trufant         CB                                   Patterson            WR

36.  T. Armstead      OT                                   BW Wilson          CB

37.  G. Bernard        RB                                   Ertz                     TE

38.  K. Minter          ILB                                   Rhodes               CB

39.  A. Ogletree      ILB                                   Woods                 WR

40.  Q. Patton          WR                                  T. Carradine         DE

41.  J. Hankins        DT                                    Hunt                     DE

42.  T. Williams        WR                                  Hopkins                WR

43.  Z. Dysert          QB                                   Lacy                     RB

44.  T. Wilson          QB                                   Elam                     S

45.  T. Eifert             TE                                   Minter                   ILB

46.  Woods              WR                                  Cyprien                 S

47.  Jenkins             DE                                   J. Williams            DT

48.  D. Thomas        OL                                   Patton                   WR

49.  E. Reid               S                                    T. Armstead           OT

50.  Z. Ertz               TE                                   G. Escobar            TE

[Carlos Danger]

interesting...

[Dustin]

Wow ESPN doesn't have Damontre Moore listed at all.

[HtownColt]

There's a drop off after 28 on both lists with the exception Trufant and Ogletree(I guess that's on NFL.com version) that's just my opinion

[NewColtsFan]

There's a drop off after 28 on both lists with the exception Trufant and Ogletree(I guess that's on NFL.com version) that's just my opinion

 

 

Really?

 

I see lots and lots of guys I like on both lists that I'd be happy with at the top or the middle of the 2nd round....

 

Just my view of things....

[HtownColt]

Really?

I see lots and lots of guys I like on both lists that I'd be happy with at the top or the middle of the 2nd round....

Just my view of things....

Yea but why settle for the 2nd best option, when those guys above 28 are on a different tier that should be available for us at 24(not to mention the guys who might fall right in our lap)

[Gavin]

Looking at both lists I see plenty I disagree with

 

1.In the NFL.com list I have absolutely no idea how in the name of the football gods any list can conceivably have Ansah over Jarvis Jones

 

2.Warford over Cooper, Werner, Moore AND Rhodes on the NFL.com side? Hard to take a list seriously after that blunder

 

3.On the ESPN side you have Ansah over Warmack, Cooper, Mingo, J Jones, Rhodes and Werner? Illogical in my opiniom

 

Just tons to disagree with

[NewColtsFan]

Yea but why settle for the 2nd best option, when those guys above 28 are on a different tier that should be available for us at 24(not to mention the guys who might fall right in our lap)

 

 

The point of the exercise was to show you that the two lists are not the same.    Apparently you didn't notice that.

 

Players that are ranked higher will fall to us in the 2nd round....

 

And with what we gain in return,  I think it's very much worth it....

[HtownColt]

The point of the exercise was to show you that the two lists are not the same. Apparently you didn't notice that.

Players that are ranked higher will fall to us in the 2nd round....

And with what we gain in return, I think it's very much worth it....

I did notice the difference and I noticed the drop off after 28, It's just I been stopped looking at NFL.com rankings and grading of players by how they grade Warford and other players.

And I disagree players would fall all the way to the 40+ range of the 2nd round which is the most likely spot we would get in a trade back, which Warford and Hunter etc should be long off the board, if so then who would be worth trading back for, pass up on that kind of talent just to likely pick up a 3rd round pick(doubt we get anything extra, or swap or 6th for their 5th) basically drop to the 40+ range just to pick up 1 extra mid round pick.

I don't feel it's worth it, others do, but oh well we will find out soon enough.

[BOTT]

There's a drop off after 28 on both lists with the exception Trufant and Ogletree(I guess that's on NFL.com version) that's just my opinion

No offense, but how could you possibly know that? Unless you happen to watch hours and hours of coaches tape...

[Gavin]

Im still trying to figure out how the heck ESPN has Rhodes below, Ertz, Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, BW Wilson, Pugh, Trufant, Taylor and Eifert and what in the blue **** is Ansah doing above both Cooper and Warmack both.

[HtownColt]

No offense, but how could you possibly know that? Unless you happen to watch hours and hours of coaches tape...

That's why I said "that's just my opinion"

[BOTT]

That's why I said "that's just my opinion"

My bad, I thought u might have a basis for that opinion.

[Balzer40]

I don't agree with everything on NFL.com's list, but IMO is way more accurate than the ESPN list. That ESPN list is just flat out comical IMO. It's true though, that even the so called experts have such differing opinions on the players and is one of the reasons why I have said there is an argument to be made that once you get from about pick 20 in the 1st rd. to about the mid 3rd rd. there aren't many players that can be considered huge reaches.

 

There just isn't a huge talent gap between players at that point and it would be easy to see teams filling needs with the best players at those positions instead of going with the so called BPA theory. BPA is highly ambiguous anyway and what might be considered BPA to some people could easily not be considered BPA by others. 

[james_zeigler1994]

That's because Moore is a reach at that time in the draft.

[NewColtsFan]

Im still trying to figure out how the heck ESPN has Rhodes below, Ertz, Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, BW Wilson, Pugh, Trufant, Taylor and Eifert and what in the blue **** is Ansah doing above both Cooper and Warmack both.

 

 

I know you disagree with both lists, especially ESPN.

 

That's not the point.      The point was to stress how no two teams see the same thing the same way.

 

The point is that there are not two lists that teams are working off of once the draft arrives....  

 

There are 32 lists and each is incredibly different.    The Big Boards for the 32 teams are NOT the same.    Teams value players differently.    They rank them differently.      So, players that are high on these lists will be lower on some lists...  and vice versa...

 

It's the nature of ALL Big Boards in ALL Sports....  

 

That's another reason why trading down is appealing....   because many players you like and want will be there for you....

[NewColtsFan]

Im still trying to figure out how the heck ESPN has Rhodes below, Ertz, Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, BW Wilson, Pugh, Trufant, Taylor and Eifert and what in the blue **** is Ansah doing above both Cooper and Warmack both.

 

 

Not to get into a raging debate,  because that isn't the point of all this....     but I like the ESPN list MUCH better.

 

Look at the NFL.com list...

 

 

-- Warmack at 1?    Dumb

 

-- Austin at 10?

 

-- Cyprien at 13?

 

-- Arthur Brown at 15

 

-- Warford  at 17

 

-- D. Moore at 20

 

-- Hopkins at 21

 

-- Carradine at 31

 

-- Okafor at 32   (sorry)

 

-- Bernard at 37  (Top RB/Lacy not in top 50?)

 

-- Ogletree at 39  (Too low)

 

-- T. Williams at 42

 

-- Z. Dyster at 43

 

-- T. Eifert at 45  (Too low)

 

-- B. Jenkins at 47?  

 

 

That's 15 players I strongly disagree with....  Most too high,  some too low...   that's 30% of the list.   Again,  that's not the point of doing this.    The point  -- again -- is to stress how people  (GM's and Scouts too)  see the same thing differently,  value the same thing differently. 

 

I say use that too our advantage....    there will be people the Colts really like in the 30's and 40's....  let's trade down,  get one of them, and pick up needed picks where the strength of the draft is...   right in the middle.....

[Dustin]

Not to get into a raging debate, because that isn't the point of all this.... but I like the ESPN list MUCH better.

Look at the NFL.com list...

-- Warmack at 1? Dumb

-- Austin at 10?

-- Cyprien at 13?

-- Arthur Brown at 15

-- Warford at 17

-- D. Moore at 20

-- Hopkins at 21

-- Carradine at 31

-- Okafor at 32 (sorry)

-- Bernard at 37 (Top RB/Lacy not in top 50?)

-- Ogletree at 39 (Too low)

-- T. Williams at 42

-- Z. Dyster at 43

-- T. Eifert at 45 (Too low)

-- B. Jenkins at 47?

That's 15 players I strongly disagree with.... Most too high, some too low... that's 30% of the list. Again, that's not the point of doing this. The point -- again -- is to stress how people (GM's and Scouts too) see the same thing differently, value the same thing differently.

I say use that too our advantage.... there will be people the Colts really like in the 30's and 40's.... let's trade down, get one of them, and pick up needed picks where the strength of the draft is... right in the middle.....

A lot of analysts consider Warmack the best player in the draft.

[BOTT]

A lot of analysts consider Warmack the best player in the draft.

Not anymore. He may not even be considered the top guard at this point.

[Dustin]

Not anymore. He may not even be considered the top guard at this point.

I guess it depends on the analyst. I still see him rated high by some. But from what I read its about 60/40 Warmack/Cooper.

[BOTT]

I know you disagree with both lists, especially ESPN.

 

That's not the point.      The point was to stress how no two teams see the same thing the same way.

 

The point is that there are not two lists that teams are working off of once the draft arrives....  

 

There are 32 lists and each is incredibly different.    The Big Boards for the 32 teams are NOT the same.    Teams value players differently.    They rank them differently.      So, players that are high on these lists will be lower on some lists...  and vice versa...

 

It's the nature of ALL Big Boards in ALL Sports....  

 

That's another reason why trading down is appealing....   because many players you like and want will be there for you....

See Derek Wolfe from last year. Elway was ripped for trading down and selecting him, but he out performed most of the Dlinemen taken ahead of him.

[Balzer40]

Another thing to consider for where teams rank players they are interested in is scheme fit. Something that many many on this forum completely ignore or do not understand. Some teams will pick players that many think is way too high, but they are picking them based on how they feel the player will fit into their scheme. Many here seem to think, you can take just any ole' player and stick them on the the team without ever considering how they will play in the system. Teams go way beyond what the average fans ever think about.

[NewColtsFan]

A lot of analysts consider Warmack the best player in the draft.

 

 

I'm aware of one.    Mike Mayock.

 

And there are multiple analysts who think Cooper is the better interior lineman, because he could player center.   His versatility gives him the higher grade for them.

[Hans Moleman]

Warmack is a great guard prospect who is now also wildly overrated. 

 

There's holes in his game - he gave up more sacks last year than DeCastro and Zeitler did in their entire college careers combined. A guard who gives up 3.5 sacks in 12 college games shouldn't be talked about as anywhere near the top overall prospect or top 10- if he goes there, it's more of a reflection of this draft's lack of clear cut top end talent than anything else. 

 

He should be going in the late first, early second. He doesn't have the movement, pass blocking ability, or scheme versatility that Cooper does. He wouldn't have gone before DeCastro or Zeitler last year for the same reasons. 

 

That said, he'd fit quite well for us at 24. But for any guard to warrant such hype as Chance has gotten, they need to have a bulletproof game and prototype, JJ Watt-esque freak measurables. Warmack's not at that level.

[DarkHorseColts]

Apparently, this whole Draft thing is highly subjective...

 

I would dearly love to see a behind-the-scenes documentary of an NFL team's draft process.

[wig]

Looking at both lists I see plenty I disagree with

 

1.In the NFL.com list I have absolutely no idea how in the name of the football gods any list can conceivably have Ansah over Jarvis Jones

 

2.Warford over Cooper, Werner, Moore AND Rhodes on the NFL.com side? Hard to take a list seriously after that blunder

 

3.On the ESPN side you have Ansah over Warmack, Cooper, Mingo, J Jones, Rhodes and Werner? Illogical in my opiniom

 

Just tons to disagree with

You also say you go by the film you see but had Okafor ahead of Jordan. Then when his stock rose on everyone's list you put him as one of your top couple guys.

[Gavin]

You also say you go by the film you see but had Okafor ahead of Jordan. Then when his stock rose on everyone's list you put him as one of your top couple guys.

Im not sure when I ever had Okafor ever ahead of Jordan, maybe I did but I dont remember it, Jordan wont likely last past the Lions, I did have Okafor in the 1st round and still think its very possible with Atlanta at pick 30, pass rush ability and containment responsibility I give Okafor the edge right now, But Okafor is a bit stiff in the hips and at times struggles to disengage from blocks