Darius Leonard

[krunk]

Darius Leonard - LB SC State

No linebacker did more to increase the value of his stock during Senior Bowl week than Darius Leonard. He is a 6’3”, 235 lbs rangy inside linebacker prospect with speed to cover to the sidelines. He showed enough natural ability and nastiness during the Senior Bowl to have a nice foundation and has enough space to grow in his body to be fine-tuned for the NFL game.

Darius Leonard from @SCStateAthletic comes from Mike to make the play on Ito Smith. Thumped him. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/LISiP7CRgR

— Brad Kelly (@BradKelly17) January 24, 2018

He led all tacklers in the Senior Bowl with 14 tackles and earned Most Valuable Player honors on defense. for the South. He has been compared to Jaguars linebacker Telvin Smith — just the type of linebacker the Colts have been sorely lacking.

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2018/1/29/16942360/senior-bowl-winners-and-losers-names-to-watch-in-nfl-draft

 

Seems like he was very active in the Senior Bowl.   Haven't done a whole lot of study except some stuff here and there in the past, but

he did seem like somebody to keep an eye on.  Obviously he's not a target for our first round pick but beyond that I think defnitely one

to keep on the radar.

[Boiler_Colt]

Anybody that's being compared to Telvin Smith, I am on board with. I watched the Senior Bowl and he was indeed flying around and playing well in coverage.

[NewColtsFan]

If Leonard is as good as people seem to think, I hope he lasts to our pick at the top of the third.

 

Top of the second seems very high for him or most any ILB.   Ideally, I'd like to get one in the third.

 

Depending on who we take on the first, I'd prefer an OLB, DL, or corner at the top of the second.   I'm a believer in positional value, especially at certain points in the rebuilding phase of a franchise.

 

[Four2itus]

34 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Top of the second seems very high for him or most any ILB.  

I assume your are talking about this draft specifically. Or are you saying that position doesn't really deserve that slot?

[BlueShoe]

@krunk

 

Is it just me or does it seem like the off-ball linebackers are extremely good this year?

 

I have them ranked a lot higher than I usually do. I cannot remember having 4 first round worthy off-ball linebackers. I am sure it has happened before, but I would have to go back and look at all my notes to confirm. 

 

23 off-ball linebackers were chosen last year, and that is about how many I have draft-able this year. However, this year it seems I have them ranked much higher than usual. Eh, maybe it's early and it will balance itself out. But, it is something I am paying close attention to. 

 

Below is my (January) ranking of off-ball linebackers. I think a few could easily move up too. Jefferson, DeLuca, Griffin, and Kiser are good examples. 

 

For the time being I am considering Nwosu, and a few others that played on the edge as off-ball linebackers, but obviously the drafting team could see it differently. 

 

Tremaine Edmunds	1st
Roquan Smith	1st
Rashaan Evans	1st
Darius Leonard	1st
Leighton Vander Esch	2nd
Uchenna Nwosu	2nd
Malik Jefferson	2nd
Travin Howard	3rd
Dorian O'Daniel	3rd
Tegray Scales	3rd
Nick DeLuca	4th
Jerome Baker	4th
Andrew Motuapuaka	4th
Josey Jewell	4th
Micah Kiser	4th
Shaquem Griffin	5th
Christian Sam	6th
Chris Worley	6th
Matthew Thomas	6th
Mike McCray	6th
Fred Warner	7th
Jason Cabinda	7th
Leon Jacobs	7th
Keishawn Bierria	7th
Azeem Victor	7-FA
Skai Moore	7-FA
Jack Cichy	UDFA
Shaun Dion Hamilton	UDFA

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I assume your are talking about this draft specifically. Or are you saying that position doesn't really deserve that slot?

 

Your second sentence.    On most drafts I wouldn't use a top-40 pick on an ILB, unless I had most of a very good defense already in place and a good ILB is perhaps the last missing piece to the puzzle.

 

This is my personal view...   I'm not quoting someone else here.    I realize it's not going to be popular with many here.

 

But ILBs often come off the field for extra corners and safeties...   so I don't like using a top-40 pick on a guy who doesn't play a high percentage of snaps. 

 

Again, I know there's going to be some push back and disagreement here.    It's just my view....

 

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Your second sentence.    On most drafts I wouldn't use a top-40 pick on an ILB, unless I had most of a very good defense already in place and a good ILB is perhaps the last missing piece to the puzzle.

 

This is my personal view...   I'm not quoting someone else here.    I realize it's not going to be popular with many here.

 

But ILBs often come off the field for extra corners and safeties...   so I don't like using a top-40 pick on a guy who doesn't play a high percentage of snaps. 

 

Again, I know there's going to be some push back and disagreement here.    It's just my view....

 

 

I think your position is sound in a typical year.

 

Not sure what to think about these off-ball linebackers this year though. It's early so I do not want to get ahead of myself. However, this draft seems to have a lot more high end talent from off-ball linebacker positions. 

 

I don't typically have 4 off-ball linebackers projected in the first round. There is usually 1 or maybe 2. There have been several years where I have had 0 off-ball linebackers ranked in the top 20. This year, I have 2 ranked in the top 15, and 3 ranked in the top 25.

 

Like I said, it is early, and my rankings could prove to be a little over-zealous. If I had to pick a side right now though, I would bet on these of-ball linebackers getting drafted much higher than we are used to.

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I think your position is sound in a typical year.

 

Not sure what to think about these off-ball linebackers this year though. It's early so I do not want to get ahead of myself. However, this draft seems to have a lot more high end talent from off-ball linebacker positions. 

 

I don't typically have 4 off-ball linebackers projected in the first round. There is usually 1 or maybe 2. There have been several years where I have had 0 off-ball linebackers ranked in the top 20. This year, I have 2 ranked in the top 15, and 3 ranked in the top 25.

 

Like I said, it is early, and my rankings could prove to be a little over-zealous. If I had to pick a side right now though, I would bet on these of-ball linebackers getting drafted much higher than we are used to.

 

I saw your list.    I was very impressed with your work.   I always am.   And when I saw that you had Leonard as a first round pick I knew you wouldn't be comfortable with my post.  

 

You may be right on Leonard.   It's too early in the process for me to have a good feel.    But for whatever it's worth, in my nearly six years here this is the first time I've advocated using a 3rd round pick on an ILB.    All the other years I've recommended using 4s and 5s.   So I do recognize the need to address it.

 

I'm hopeful we can collect more Day 2 picks and focus on building a great defense.    

 

Oh, one last thought...   Okereke went back to school, so you can remove his name.   But when you make your list of OLBs, you can add Peter Kalambayi.   He'll be a nice free agent pickup for someone and spend a redshirt year on the Practice Squad.

 

[BlueShoe]

42 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I saw your list.    I was very impressed with your work.   I always am.   And when I saw that you had Leonard as a first round pick I knew you wouldn't be comfortable with my post.  

 

You may be right on Leonard.   It's too early in the process for me to have a good feel.    But for whatever it's worth, in my nearly six years here this is the first time I've advocated using a 3rd round pick on an ILB.    All the other years I've recommended using 4s and 5s.   So I do recognize the need to address it.

 

I'm hopeful we can collect more Day 2 picks and focus on building a great defense.    

 

Oh, one last thought...   Okereke went back to school, so you can remove his name.   But when you make your list of OLBs, you can add Peter Kalambayi.   He'll be a nice free agent pickup for someone and spend a redshirt year on the Practice Squad.

 

 

Thank you for the kind words. I will move Bobby Okereke to 2019. Still cleaning some things up from the players who stayed in school. I probably have a couple more to move to 2019. The waters can get kind of muddy on who decided to return for a fifth year due to a redshirt season, especially the UDFA players. 

 

I usually have a few stragglers to figure out until around mid-February. Most are easy, because they get invited to the East West Shrine, NFLPA Bowl, and the Senior Bowl. I started with 1200 players in April of 2017, I am currently sitting at 830 players, and I've probably verified the status on about 80% of them.

 

I have Peter Kalambayi listed as EDGE player for now. At 6'3" 247, he has the size but we will see how he moves. It was easy to track his intentions, because he was invited to the NFLPA Bowl.  

 

I did not have any issues with your post at all. I agree that it is early in the process. Typically I completely agree about not drafting the off-ball linebackers early too. I don't usually have them ranked so high. The rankings could  drastically change over the next few months, or it could end up being an extremely good year for off-ball linebackers.  

[BlueShoe]

On 1/29/2018 at 12:09 PM, krunk said:

Darius Leonard - LB SC State

No linebacker did more to increase the value of his stock during Senior Bowl week than Darius Leonard. He is a 6’3”, 235 lbs rangy inside linebacker prospect with speed to cover to the sidelines. He showed enough natural ability and nastiness during the Senior Bowl to have a nice foundation and has enough space to grow in his body to be fine-tuned for the NFL game.

Darius Leonard from @SCStateAthletic comes from Mike to make the play on Ito Smith. Thumped him. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/LISiP7CRgR

— Brad Kelly (@BradKelly17) January 24, 2018

He led all tacklers in the Senior Bowl with 14 tackles and earned Most Valuable Player honors on defense. for the South. He has been compared to Jaguars linebacker Telvin Smith — just the type of linebacker the Colts have been sorely lacking.

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2018/1/29/16942360/senior-bowl-winners-and-losers-names-to-watch-in-nfl-draft

 

Seems like he was very active in the Senior Bowl.   Haven't done a whole lot of study except some stuff here and there in the past, but

he did seem like somebody to keep an eye on.  Obviously he's not a target for our first round pick but beyond that I think defnitely one

to keep on the radar.

 

Not bad for a guy Clemson didn't want, eh?  

 

At first I saw him as a WILL, but as this process moves along, I think he is making a case to stay at MIKE. I am looking forward to seeing more from him at the combine.  

 

Right now, I have him as a late first or Day 2 prospect. He is certainly one to keep an eye on though. 

[jshipp23]

On 1/29/2018 at 1:09 PM, krunk said:

Darius Leonard - LB SC State

No linebacker did more to increase the value of his stock during Senior Bowl week than Darius Leonard. He is a 6’3”, 235 lbs rangy inside linebacker prospect with speed to cover to the sidelines. He showed enough natural ability and nastiness during the Senior Bowl to have a nice foundation and has enough space to grow in his body to be fine-tuned for the NFL game.

Darius Leonard from @SCStateAthletic comes from Mike to make the play on Ito Smith. Thumped him. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/LISiP7CRgR

— Brad Kelly (@BradKelly17) January 24, 2018

He led all tacklers in the Senior Bowl with 14 tackles and earned Most Valuable Player honors on defense. for the South. He has been compared to Jaguars linebacker Telvin Smith — just the type of linebacker the Colts have been sorely lacking.

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2018/1/29/16942360/senior-bowl-winners-and-losers-names-to-watch-in-nfl-draft

 

Seems like he was very active in the Senior Bowl.   Haven't done a whole lot of study except some stuff here and there in the past, but

he did seem like somebody to keep an eye on.  Obviously he's not a target for our first round pick but beyond that I think defnitely one

to keep on the radar.

You were right about Quincy Wilson last year, and I think you might hit on this one this year..I like him a lot, good player with a high ceiling in a position of need..

[dgambill]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 4:18 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Your second sentence.    On most drafts I wouldn't use a top-40 pick on an ILB, unless I had most of a very good defense already in place and a good ILB is perhaps the last missing piece to the puzzle.

 

This is my personal view...   I'm not quoting someone else here.    I realize it's not going to be popular with many here.

 

But ILBs often come off the field for extra corners and safeties...   so I don't like using a top-40 pick on a guy who doesn't play a high percentage of snaps. 

 

Again, I know there's going to be some push back and disagreement here.    It's just my view....

 

 

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 4:26 PM, BlueShoe said:

 

I think your position is sound in a typical year.

 

Not sure what to think about these off-ball linebackers this year though. It's early so I do not want to get ahead of myself. However, this draft seems to have a lot more high end talent from off-ball linebacker positions. 

 

I don't typically have 4 off-ball linebackers projected in the first round. There is usually 1 or maybe 2. There have been several years where I have had 0 off-ball linebackers ranked in the top 20. This year, I have 2 ranked in the top 15, and 3 ranked in the top 25.

 

Like I said, it is early, and my rankings could prove to be a little over-zealous. If I had to pick a side right now though, I would bet on these of-ball linebackers getting drafted much higher than we are used to.

I agree with positional value approach @NewColtsFan and I also agree that this might be a particularly strong LB class like @BlueShoe says and typically I'm not one to take an ILB high in the draft but I always leave room for exceptions. Depending on how that person grades out (say they have Ray Lewis quality) and say is a 3 down backer won't leave the field then of course I take that star if they are available. I would say if we have a day 1 grade on an ILB and they are still there day 2....we should really access that player closely. I would rather wait til later but we could use a special player in the middle of this defense...and I've got no problem investing a later pick on first round talent.

[BlueShoe]

23 minutes ago, dgambill said:

 

I agree with positional value approach @NewColtsFan and I also agree that this might be a particularly strong LB class like @BlueShoe says and typically I'm not one to take an ILB high in the draft but I always leave room for exceptions. Depending on how that person grades out (say they have Ray Lewis quality) and say is a 3 down backer won't leave the field then of course I take that star if they are available. I would say if we have a day 1 grade on an ILB and they are still there day 2....we should really access that player closely. I would rather wait til later but we could use a special player in the middle of this defense...and I've got no problem investing a later pick on first round talent.

 

I think we could find ourselves in that situation (bolded). It will be interesting to see how Chris Ballard reacts to it. 

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I think we could find ourselves in that situation (bolded). It will be interesting to see how Chris Ballard reacts to it. 

If he does a good job in free agency...then there would be no reason not to take one. If you fill enough holes in FA then you don't need to draft by need....and can take the BPA. In my opinion if you have first rd grade on a guy in rd 2 then even if we have a starter there we could use the depth...and heck if they turn out to be pro bowl material then we find a place to play them or move the guy we had there. If things work out and we add a pass rusher and OL help in either/both first rd and FA then ILB is a position I am fine addressing at the top of RD2 if that guy is a day 1 contributor and can play in most packages.

[BlueShoe]

7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

If he does a good job in free agency...then there would be no reason not to take one. If you fill enough holes in FA then you don't need to draft by need....and can take the BPA. In my opinion if you have first rd grade on a guy in rd 2 then even if we have a starter there we could use the depth...and heck if they turn out to be pro bowl material then we find a place to play them or move the guy we had there. If things work out and we add a pass rusher and OL help in either/both first rd and FA then ILB is a position I am fine addressing at the top of RD2 if that guy is a day 1 contributor and can play in most packages.

 

I tend to somewhat agree with what you're saying. I think....

 

I think you missed where I was going with my comment though.  

 

With Chris Ballard being so new in his position, it will be interesting to watch his decision making. They (GM's) are all different from one another, which is why we don't have 32 identical big boards. They see things differently. They take different chances. I am looking forward to another draft with Ballard, so I can peek behind the curtain a little more. 

 

Not that I believe taking an off-ball linebacker is a gamble. I think teams should take the best player that somewhat aligns with a need. Keep in mind, I am sure that I see a NEED differently than most others on this board. I believe a position is a NEED if you may lose a key player at that position the following year.

 

If I were a GM then I would definitely be one to draft ahead. 

[dgambill]

28 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I tend to somewhat agree with what you're saying. I think....

 

I think you missed where I was going with my comment though.  

 

With Chris Ballard being so new in his position, it will be interesting to watch his decision making. They (GM's) are all different from one another, which is why we don't have 32 identical big boards. They see things differently. They take different chances. I am looking forward to another draft with Ballard, so I can peek behind the curtain a little more. 

I think he likes to plug holes thru FA....so that he can simply go after the most talented player no matter the position in the draft. Do I think FS was our #1 concern last offseason...nope....do I even like to take a FS in the top 15 of the draft...nope....and I think a lot of GMs are similar in that regard....but I think he saw Hookers value was so high he wasn't going to pass on that kind of talent just because it was a high value position. Look at how KC has operated in the past several years. They've had times where they've had a glut of DT and they still go out and get another in the draft. Same with OLB. I think when they see the there is a player clearly highly rated that they just say let's go get him and then we will plan the team around them after the fact...even if that means moving a good player later or not re-signing one like Poe. I am looking forward too....but not sure I'm going to learn something that would carry over year to year. Plus the team he is drafting for this year runs schemes totally different than last year.....hard to say really. Going from 3-4 to 4-3 with different coaches and then to McDaniels offense...going to be hard to get a bead on him I think.

[BlueShoe]

15 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I think he likes to plug holes thru FA....so that he can simply go after the most talented player no matter the position in the draft. Do I think FS was our #1 concern last offseason...nope....do I even like to take a FS in the top 15 of the draft...nope....and I think a lot of GMs are similar in that regard....but I think he saw Hookers value was so high he wasn't going to pass on that kind of talent just because it was a high value position. Look at how KC has operated in the past several years. They've had times where they've had a glut of DT and they still go out and get another in the draft. Same with OLB. I think when they see the there is a player clearly highly rated that they just say let's go get him and then we will plan the team around them after the fact...even if that means moving a good player later or not re-signing one like Poe.

 

We drafted a FS at No. 15 overall last year, because he was our 4th ranked player in the entire NFL draft and we had a 96 grade on him.

 

http://footballdungeon.com/news/day-1-grades/

 

 

Chris Ballard has said he will use free agency to temporarily patch holes. He says he is a true believer in drafting well and keeping your own. This was also a Bill Polian belief. I want to see it in action. 

 

When I say I am looking forward to seeing how he reacts, I want to see what he does in certain situations. It's a process to understand these GM's. It takes time (several off-seasons) to really understand their methodology. That's what I am looking forward to. 

 

I had a really good understanding of Bill Polian, and I think I might get there with Chris Ballard as well. 

 

Ryan Grigson thought a lot differently than Polian or Ballard (it would appear). Grigson was a home run swinger and measurables were everything to him. He often missed because he took the 4.39 guy over the 4.49 guy who could play the position better. 

 

 

[dgambill]

12 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

We drafted a FS at No. 15 overall last year, because he was our 4th ranked player in the entire NFL draft and we had a 96 grade on him.

 

http://footballdungeon.com/news/day-1-grades/

 

 

Chris Ballard has said he will use free agency to temporarily patch holes. He says he is a true believer in drafting well and keeping your own. This was also a Bill Polian belief. I want to see it in action. 

 

When I say I am looking forward to seeing how he reacts, I want to see what he does in certain situations. It's a process to understand these GM's. It takes time (several off-seasons) to really understand their methodology. That's what I am looking forward to. 

 

I had a really good understanding of Bill Polian, and I think I might get there with Chris Ballard as well. 

 

Ryan Grigson thought a lot differently than Polian or Ballard (it would appear). Grigson was a home run swinger and measurables were everything to him. He often missed because he took the 4.39 guy over the 4.49 guy who could play the position better. 

 

 

Yeah...I assumed we had a really good grade on Hooker...the only reason we would take a FS that high in my opinion. I was a little more skeptical because of the position and the limited time and production at OSU....but Hooker definitely had a knack for finding the ball. Where did you get the draft card evaluation in the picture? I've never seen that before...I would think that would be highly confidential. I agree about the mentality...guess we will see if he sticks to his core values. I find its easy when things are going well....but when things get tough...or you start to miss a bit...then you start second guessing and then things spiral and then you start reaching to try to hit those home runs to save your job. There is so much behind the scenes and stuff we aren't privy to that makes me feel its impossible to figure out whats going on with these guys. Offers that get turned down that never see the light of day....heated discussions behind closed doors. Right now he seems to want to reward his own players and encourage the locker room by paying those that perform. Filling in depth in free agency and spending big only when the he thinks he is getting a deal (I love how he swooped in late with Hankins and got him on a pretty good deal when his contract talks stalled elsewhere). I liked a lot of his moves....he knew right off he needed a #2 wr and wanted a bigger body guy to pair with TY....and his gut proved out as Jeffries played great this year and also we saw our huge glaring whole in our roster without the Luck to TY duo. The youth movement I think was a good thing too....we saw some young guys in the secondary that really started to shine like Hairston late in the year and guys that got opportunities like Melvin that who knows might bring back long term based on that play. He said he wanted to build in the trenches so I am TRULY going to hold him to that with this pick at #3. Whether we move it or we stay I expect someone to help our front 7 or OL if that is the case. He got help in FA last year to address this unit...but if he wants to build it in the draft he needs to spend accordingly. One thing we noticed was it was a deep year for corners last year and he picked two and one early. It appears to be a deep year for LB so maybe he will do the same...which would bode well for one of those LBs you have on your board. I could easily see that addressed in RD 2. I kinda expect him to plug some gaps with some guys familiar with the new schemes next year and with McDaniels....so I'm leaning towards FAs like Lewis, Amendola, Hutchins, maybe Butler to target. I don't know about Ansah and Norwell that everyone keeps talking about but I'm sure we look to help shore up the OL and if a deal can be done for a pass rusher...we would be crazy not to address that with how poor our production was last year. I guess every little bit adds to the picture of what we can expect from CB....but I wouldn't be surprised with the mass changes going on this offseason if we see some of his moves look widely different than last year. Interesting offseason to come for sure.

[BlueShoe]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yeah...I assumed we had a really good grade on Hooker...the only reason we would take a FS that high in my opinion. I was a little more skeptical because of the position and the limited time and production at OSU....but Hooker definitely had a knack for finding the ball. Where did you get the draft card evaluation in the picture? I've never seen that before...I would think that would be highly confidential.

 

Just wanted to answer the first part of your post real quick. I can touch on the rest later. 

 

That picture was posted on the Indianapolis Colts website immediately following the draft.  

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Just wanted to answer the first part of your post real quick. I can touch on the rest later. 

 

That picture was posted on the Indianapolis Colts website immediately following the draft.  

Thanks...I must have missed that back then....probably excited we didn't draft a RB lol!!!! Still interesting they would release that.

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Thanks...I must have missed that back then....probably excited we didn't draft a RB lol!!!! Still interesting they would release that.

 

I think it was an accident. It was in the background of another picture. 

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I think it was an accident. It was in the background of another picture. 

Dang smart phones and confidential information....those two just don't mix...seen people at both my previous jobs get fired for stuff like that lol. Good to know....and a sharp eye by someone!

[DougDew]

On 1/29/2018 at 5:18 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Your second sentence.    On most drafts I wouldn't use a top-40 pick on an ILB, unless I had most of a very good defense already in place and a good ILB is perhaps the last missing piece to the puzzle.

 

This is my personal view...   I'm not quoting someone else here.    I realize it's not going to be popular with many here.

 

But ILBs often come off the field for extra corners and safeties...   so I don't like using a top-40 pick on a guy who doesn't play a high percentage of snaps. 

 

Again, I know there's going to be some push back and disagreement here.    It's just my view....

 

Agreed 95%.  What I would add is that IF an ILB wouldn't have to come off the field on 3rd and long, then he would be worth the top 40 if he can do other things well too.  But you only need one ILB in those packages so you only spend a top 40 on an ILB once.

[dgambill]

21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agreed 95%.  What I would add is that IF an ILB wouldn't have to come off the field on 3rd and long, then he would be worth the top 40 if he can do other things well too.  But you only need one ILB in those packages so you only spend a top 40 on an ILB once.

Right....if it's a Ray Lewis, Luke Kuechley, Sean Lee quality player....if it's a Gary Brackett then yeah...I can wait. Those special 3 down LBs....hard to find...but maybe this draft has a few in it. We seem to think Edmonds, Smith, and Evans are possibly that kind of player....but Leonard is still a question mark to take at the top of rd 2 imo. I haven't seen a mock yet have him in the first...even some that have Evans as questionable for first rd.

[bhougland]

 

I'm sorry, I don't get the love and am completely baffled by the first round grade.  I wanted to love this guy because that means there is a better chance of us getting one or two great linebackers in this draft.  However, watching the tape of Roquan, Rashaan, Malik (not sold on his motor), and Tremaine (didn't check spelling), I would say they are one to two levels better than this guy.  He just doesn't pop on the film I have watched (youtube stuff), but he lit it up at the senior bowl, so I am just confused now.  After watching his film I would say he is a round 5 - 7 guy.  What am I missing?

[ty4atd]

On 1/29/2018 at 5:18 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Your second sentence.    On most drafts I wouldn't use a top-40 pick on an ILB, unless I had most of a very good defense already in place and a good ILB is perhaps the last missing piece to the puzzle.

 

This is my personal view...   I'm not quoting someone else here.    I realize it's not going to be popular with many here.

 

But ILBs often come off the field for extra corners and safeties...   so I don't like using a top-40 pick on a guy who doesn't play a high percentage of snaps. 

 

Again, I know there's going to be some push back and disagreement here.    It's just my view....

 

ILBs still play a lot even in sub packages this year both Bostic and Morrison played over 75% of the snaps and Morrison gets abused in coverage every game and Bostic got better as the season went on but still meh at best. If they think an LB can turn into a Shazier, Sean Lee or Wagner type player they are still incredibly valuable and should take him in rd1 after a trade or rd2.

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, ty4atd said:

ILBs still play a lot even in sub packages this year both Bostic and Morrison played over 75% of the snaps and Morrison gets abused in coverage every game and Bostic got better as the season went on but still meh at best. If they think an LB can turn into a Shazier, Sean Lee or Wagner type player they are still incredibly valuable and should take him in rd1 after a trade or rd2.

 

If you'll notice in my post that you responded to, I noted not wanting to use a top-40 pick in most circumstances.

 

In response you noted three ILBs..   Shazier, Lee and Wagner.   Now Shazier was a first round pick.   But Wagner was pick 47 when he came out, and Lee was pick 55...     so......

 

Just saying......

 

[ty4atd]

I was just pointing out that ILBs still play most of the snaps even in sub packages, and If he turns out to be like Myles Jack, C.J Mosley, Anthony Barr or any of those previously mentioned players it would be worth a 1st rounder or a high 2nd. The last few drafts have been thin on LBs or the good ones were injured. Last year Jarrad Davis was the only ILB taken in round 1 but I really wanted Cunningham in round 2 and he would have been worth a top 40 pick, in 2016 both Jaylon Smith and Myles Jack would have been easy 1st rounders without blowing out their knees and for sure worth it. 2014 Shaq Thompson was 1st rounder and very good and Eric Kenricks went 45 and has shown to be worth more. It all depends on the player and the draft class but with so many LBs in this draft that look good I'd be all for taking one with either a trade back or our 2nd if someone falls.   

[BlueShoe]

On 2/6/2018 at 1:45 PM, bhougland said:

 

I'm sorry, I don't get the love and am completely baffled by the first round grade.  I wanted to love this guy because that means there is a better chance of us getting one or two great linebackers in this draft.  However, watching the tape of Roquan, Rashaan, Malik (not sold on his motor), and Tremaine (didn't check spelling), I would say they are one to two levels better than this guy.  He just doesn't pop on the film I have watched (youtube stuff), but he lit it up at the senior bowl, so I am just confused now.  After watching his film I would say he is a round 5 - 7 guy.  What am I missing?

 

If you see a 5th to 7th rounder then the only advice I can give is to have you go back and re-watch the tape.

 

You're entitled to make your own board, but if you have him 5th to 7th then you will be way off. That dude is coming off the board late first or early second. 

[Surge89]

On 1/29/2018 at 1:00 PM, NewColtsFan said:

If Leonard is as good as people seem to think, I hope he lasts to our pick at the top of the third.

 

Top of the second seems very high for him or most any ILB.   Ideally, I'd like to get one in the third.

 

Depending on who we take on the first, I'd prefer an OLB, DL, or corner at the top of the second.   I'm a believer in positional value, especially at certain points in the rebuilding phase of a franchise.

 

 

This view of yours completely baffles me, and has baffled me for the past 3 years lol.  ILB aren't usually taken high in the draft because good ILBs are rare.  Not because their positional value is low.  QBs have their way with defenses now a days solely due to the lack of elite level ILBs that can't do it all.  When the meat of your defense is always changing to fit the need on the field you become utterly and hopelessly predictable.  When you have a chance to take an ILB who can stay on the field (or has the potential to do so) all 3 downs you jump at the chance.  

 

We have had streaky defenses ever since the Peyton years.  The only time our defense was consistently productive is when Bob Sanders (a player who rarely came off as he played all 3 downs) was on the field and leading.  We have not had a player like that on defense since.  

[NewColtsFan]

22 hours ago, ty4atd said:

I was just pointing out that ILBs still play most of the snaps even in sub packages, and If he turns out to be like Myles Jack, C.J Mosley, Anthony Barr or any of those previously mentioned players it would be worth a 1st rounder or a high 2nd. The last few drafts have been thin on LBs or the good ones were injured. Last year Jarrad Davis was the only ILB taken in round 1 but I really wanted Cunningham in round 2 and he would have been worth a top 40 pick, in 2016 both Jaylon Smith and Myles Jack would have been easy 1st rounders without blowing out their knees and for sure worth it. 2014 Shaq Thompson was 1st rounder and very good and Eric Kenricks went 45 and has shown to be worth more. It all depends on the player and the draft class but with so many LBs in this draft that look good I'd be all for taking one with either a trade back or our 2nd if someone falls.   

 

I'd prefer not to use a rare high pick on an ILB -- even a very good one -- until we've solved our issues with pass rush and corner.    Otherwise you're using a rare high draft pick to address lesser problems before you've fixed the most important issues.    I find that backwards.

 

Just a different viewpoint.

 

[NewColtsFan]

19 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

This view of yours completely baffles me, and has baffled me for the past 3 years lol.  ILB aren't usually taken high in the draft because good ILBs are rare.  Not because their positional value is low.  QBs have their way with defenses now a days solely due to the lack of elite level ILBs that can't do it all.  When the meat of your defense is always changing to fit the need on the field you become utterly and hopelessly predictable.  When you have a chance to take an ILB who can stay on the field (or has the potential to do so) all 3 downs you jump at the chance.  

 

We have had streaky defenses ever since the Peyton years.  The only time our defense was consistently productive is when Bob Sanders (a player who rarely came off as he played all 3 downs) was on the field and leading.  We have not had a player like that on defense since.  

 

It appears we see the same thing differently.   Wish it wasn't so,  but it seems to be.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one and move on...

 

[ty4atd]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'd prefer not to use a rare high pick on an ILB -- even a very good one -- until we've solved our issues with pass rush and corner.    Otherwise you're using a rare high draft pick to address lesser problems before you've fixed the most important issues.    I find that backwards.

 

Just a different viewpoint.

 

I don't think it's a lesser problem the Colts might have had the worst off ball LBs in the league last year. QBs always had an quick easy dump off to their backs because our backers couldn't cover. RBs had 73 catches for 784 yards against the Colts and that's with the Buffalo game where they didn't even try a pass to the backs because of the snow. TE's also abused us all year a ILB who can run sideline to sideline and cover would do wonders for our D. Pass rush needs a bolster but ILB is the weakest spot on D if they stay at 3 and take Chubb then I would love a ILB if someone slips and we get a good value same could be said for a CB I would just rather not reach for a lesser CB or Pass rusher if we don't go Chubb and pass on a LB who's rated higher because he's a LB. 

[NewColtsFan]

39 minutes ago, ty4atd said:

I don't think it's a lesser problem the Colts might have had the worst off ball LBs in the league last year. QBs always had an quick easy dump off to their backs because our backers couldn't cover. RBs had 73 catches for 784 yards against the Colts and that's with the Buffalo game where they didn't even try a pass to the backs because of the snow. TE's also abused us all year a ILB who can run sideline to sideline and cover would do wonders for our D. Pass rush needs a bolster but ILB is the weakest spot on D if they stay at 3 and take Chubb then I would love a ILB if someone slips and we get a good value same could be said for a CB I would just rather not reach for a lesser CB or Pass rusher if we don't go Chubb and pass on a LB who's rated higher because he's a LB. 

 

Pass rush needs.....    a bolster?

 

Seriously?

 

I think we were 30th or 31st in sacks.

 

We are so terrible at getting to and pressuring the QB that even if we take Chubb,  we STILL need more pass rush.

 

Even with Chubb, odds are that Ballard will be working on improving pass rush for the next few years.

 

I'm not trying to downplay our linebacker needs.   We need better and more and it will take years to acquire the talent we want.

 

I'm only saying that if we're prioritizing our needs, I think pass rush and corner trumps linebacker -- especially inside LB.

 

Just a different perspective.