SI Report: Peyton Had 4 Procedures, not 3 [Merge]

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Honestly who knows what to think anymore lets just get this over one way or another!

[BmoreColt]

Also I've yet to read or hear anything where Irsay blamed Manning for the cleared to play release. If there is something you can provide where he did that would be great. To the best of my knowledge all he said in response was that Manning hasn't been cleared by the Colts yet.

Hasn't blamed Manning because he himself could have been behind many if the latest PR stints. It was Irsay who came out and said he wasn't cleared by our doctors. Some jockeying is going on here, who's responsible is where opinions will vary.

[Flash7]

Peyton Manning's doctors issued a statement on Manning's health, stating that they had cleared him to play.

Immediately after, Irsay had released a statement that Manning was not cleared to play by the Colt's doctors. The new SI report could explain why. Irsay and the Colts had more information on the Matter. Peyton clearly wants to continue playing, even if it's a risk to his future health.

It appears to me that Manning may not yet be healthy enough to be cleared by the Colt's doctors by March 8th. He would fail the physical. The current contract and option is for a healthy Manning. If Manning is not healthy, it would make absolute sense for Irsay to request working out a new contract. That's why Irsay has issued his most recent statement.

[MR. Blueblood]

Well I can respect your thoughts as well... I'm just remembering when the cleared to play report came out it was from a COLTS trainer... Is that not possible for Irsay to say leak this out to one of HIS employees?

How does the doctor saying Manning is cleared to play work in Irsay's favor? If anything it would open up the flood gates even more for everybody to say "see he's fine, the doctor even said so, you should pay him the money now because he will be able to play". Why would he want that?

[jedi.creech]

Also I've yet to read or hear anything where Irsay blamed Manning for the cleared to play release. If there is something you can provide where he did that would be great. To the best of my knowledge all he said in response was that Manning hasn't been cleared by the Colts yet.

You are correct I haven't seen that either... But the LFCM (luck fan club memebers).... all jumped down his Mannings back saying how can he leak this info during superbowl... Made Manning look bad... So well if the leak about 4th surgery was given sure could leak cleared to play at wrong time to look bad WITHOUT a release from Manning

[jedi.creech]

How does the doctor saying Manning is cleared to play work in Irsay's favor? If anything it would open up the flood gates even more for everybody to say "see he's fine, the doctor even said so, you should pay him the money now because he will be able to play". Why would he want that?

According to you all it was bad taste in timing, so.... Made Manning look bad to release that.. Also Irsay was QUICK on spot to respond like he was ready for it.

[MR. Blueblood]

You are correct I haven't seen that either... But the LFCM (luck fan club memebers).... all jumped down his Mannings back saying how can he leak this info during superbowl... Made Manning look bad... So well if the leak about 4th surgery was given sure could leak cleared to play at wrong time to look bad WITHOUT a release from Manning

IMO who looks bad in this situation all depends on the eyes reading it and the ears hearing it. You can have two people take entirely different meaning from the same group of words. The LFCM (as you refer to it) I'm sure are in far fewer numbers than the PMFCM that see it from the other side.

[Coffeedrinker]

http://sportsillustr...l#ixzz1mTp9ON4e

"SI.com has learned from NFL sources that Manning actually underwent a fourth, unreported, medical procedure in the past two years, not three as has been widely known."

"

In addition, league sources say Manning's neck has potentially developed bone spurs just above the point where his latest fusion surgery took place in early September, and the Colts organization is under the belief that it is nearly inevitable Manning will at some point require further surgery, and possibly another fusion procedure, even if he does successfully return to the field in 2012."

The article also goes on to provide information that Polian knew that PM could not throw more than 20-25 yds last December, contrary to what Polian now claims.

I have not seen where Peyton confirmed this 4th procedure. Can you provide a link?

[jedi.creech]

Just a prime example how the LFCM will believe and support anything again Manning, and down plays any positive news... Quick to blame Manning for any PR moves he has done... I still want to see REAL PR moves now that was done by Manning... Only thing I have heard is him being sad for friends losing jobs... And a bad rehab enviorment... Maybe it is bad... Heck he feels eyes on him wanting him to fail.... That sounds bad to me.

[FireJimCaldwell]

This reeks of Irsay being the "NFL source".

[DrBorisBalinkoff]

According to you all it was bad taste in timing, so.... Made Manning look bad to release that.. Also Irsay was QUICK on spot to respond like he was ready for it.

Irsay responded as quickly as he did , in my opinion, because once Manning is cleared by the team, he may no longer work out at the facility, with team personnel, under team supervision. He needed to clarify because they all needed to stay within the rules. And he had to respond quickly because of the play it was getting because of the microscope of the Super Bowl.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

This reeks of Irsay being the "NFL source".

Yeah, "league sources" is definitely different than "sources close to Manning"

[UndecidedFrog]

Pollian did not say that it was said that he throw around the 25 yard distance which is what the article said.

Bill Polian did say, in his interview with PTI, that he saw PM throw effectively from the opposite hash mark to the sideline....that's 30 yards.

[MR. Blueblood]

According to you all it was bad taste in timing, so.... Made Manning look bad to release that.. Also Irsay was QUICK on spot to respond like he was ready for it.

Never said it was bad taste in timing, all I said is that I don't see how the release would be a good thing for Irsay so I don't see why he would be the one to want to release it. And as somebody else pointed out on a different thread, Irsay's response could have been for something as simple as Manning still being able to use the Colts facilities, because if he was cleared he would no longer be able to rehab there anymore. As far as the speed of Irsay's response, I'm sure the release spread like wildfire and I think we all know that his phone is never too far away from him to bust out a tweet. The people that see the Manning release being a negative against him are going to be the ones that will see the negative in any story related to him, and those who seen it as a positive thing for him will see the positive in other stories related to him. It all depends if you're wearing rose colored glasses or not.

[UndecidedFrog]

I have not seen where Peyton confirmed this 4th procedure. Can you provide a link?

I did not claim Peyton said any of this. I already provided the source. Here it is again.http://sportsillustr...l#ixzz1mTp9ON4e

[jedi.creech]

Okay well one question.... The report is calling the 3rd neck surgery the 4th.... Doesn't matter if it was 3rd or 16th has any surgerys happen since Sept?????

How is his neck since the LAST surgery, and where is he at health wise since LAST (no matter what number it is) surgery? Last report I have heard (not read) was 80% in December since LAST surgery whatever number it was.

[Flash7]

Okay well one question.... The report is calling the 3rd neck surgery the 4th.... Doesn't matter if it was 3rd or 16th has any surgerys happen since Sept????? How is his neck since the LAST surgery, and where is he at health wise since LAST (no matter what number it is) surgery? Last report I have heard (not read) was 80% in December since LAST surgery whatever number it was.

So if he had 87 surgeries in the last 2 years, you would be okay with that? That wouldn't matter to you? Wouldn't that indicate that it's a bigger problem than it's led on to be?

[Coffeedrinker]

I did not claim Peyton said any of this. I already provided the source. Here it is again.http://sportsillustr...l#ixzz1mTp9ON4e

As you have implied, if Peyton doesn't confirm or deny it then it's to be taken with a grain of salt.

I find it very funny how quickly you jumped on this though.

[presto123]

Okay well one question.... The report is calling the 3rd neck surgery the 4th.... Doesn't matter if it was 3rd or 16th has any surgerys happen since Sept?????

How is his neck since the LAST surgery, and where is he at health wise since LAST (no matter what number it is) surgery? Last report I have heard (not read) was 80% in December since LAST surgery whatever number it was.

Well....bone spurs would matter. That would require a 5th surgery and more time for recovery .

[MR. Blueblood]

Okay well one question.... The report is calling the 3rd neck surgery the 4th.... Doesn't matter if it was 3rd or 16th has any surgerys happen since Sept?????

How is his neck since the LAST surgery, and where is he at health wise since LAST (no matter what number it is) surgery? Last report I have heard (not read) was 80% in December since LAST surgery whatever number it was.

I don't think anybody but Manning and those that are directly involved in his renab can answer that with any sort of validity. I've always thought that if Manning can show that he's progressing the easiest way to do it is bring in some media to watch him make some throws. If he can and looks good then all of the emphasis turns to Irsay and he looks without a shadow of a doubt as the bad guy if he lets Manning go. Evidently he can't or is unwilling to do that so it's all speculation from everybody. Irsay trying to protect this team against the possibility that Manning may not return to form isn't such a bad thing and I don't think it makes him an awful person or owner for doing so.

[bayone]

HOW COULD THIS BE!!!!!! A Doctor report that is leaked out.... Manning must have signed a release for this cause NO way this could be possible leaked info from anyone else it would be a HIPPA viloation right?? MMMM..... wonder if this is same leak about Manning being cleared for football during the Superbowl week...

agreed

First off who leaks such stories, surely not Peyton & without permission it violates Hippa privacy laws to my knowledge though as dont practice anymore I can be wrong but laws usually get tighter not looser

[UndecidedFrog]

As you have implied, if Peyton doesn't confirm or deny it then it's to be taken with a grain of salt.

I find it very funny how quickly you jumped on this though.

You are mistaken.

Another poster claimed that Peyton said that he was willing to accept an incentive based contract, which turned out to be untrue.

I, on the other hand, have not claimed that Peyton said anything about a 4th surgery.

You are free to believe or not believe if a 4th surgical procedure has taken place.

[presto123]

You are correct I haven't seen that either... But the LFCM (luck fan club memebers).... all jumped down his Mannings back saying how can he leak this info during superbowl... Made Manning look bad... So well if the leak about 4th surgery was given sure could leak cleared to play at wrong time to look bad WITHOUT a release from Manning

You need some milkshakes to go along with all those straws you are grasping

[bayone]

Well....bone spurs would matter. That would require a 5th surgery and more time for recovery .

depends where the spurs are and if are pressing on something, a spur itself is just some arthritis there, also not great but somewhat expected after a procedure, if bone spurs by getting hit or not grow worse they can repress on nerve root again

[DrBorisBalinkoff]

Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb here...... I'm going to believe BOTH sides. On the one hand, you have Peyton Manning, a hyper-competitive, elite athlete. He wants to play. He's not ready to walk away. He believes the effects of these injuries dont affect him as they do mere mortals. I'm not trying to imply this as a negative, it's his nature, as it is for most great players like him.

On the other hand, you have Jim Irsay, who I believe really loves Manning, but loves the Colts more, and wants what's best for the franchise. He has to look out for the Colts, even if that is unpopular. He's the one who ultimately has to make the hard decisions. And sincerely believes it may not be in Manning's best interest to play.

If you look at it in this perspective, you can kind of pull together a timeline from all the leaks, sources, and other assorted reports. Look at everything that came from Manning/the Manning camp as "look, we don't care what's being said..... He can still play." and look at everything coming from Irsay as "I am concerned about the Shoe, and genuinely about the person himself."

Then put the timeline back together and it fits. The reports all fit. The words all fit (if you discount the endless analysis going on around it). I don't necessarily think there's any real attempt to harm the other. Just two sides with two viewpoints and two ultimately different goals. It's a strange confluence of events, driven by a media that is driven by their own deadlines and loyalties.

In the end, Manning's decision to play will be his own to make. And Irsay's decisions about the franchise are his. And those decisions may not line up anymore. They did when the contract was signed, but so much has changed since then.

[jedi.creech]

You need some milkshakes to go along with all those straws you are grasping

Any... if anyone says anything positive about Manning it's grabbing straws... If anyone says anything negative it's cold hard facts to you LFCMs

[UndecidedFrog]

Any... if anyone says anything positive about Manning it's grabbing straws... If anyone says anything negative it's cold hard facts to you LFCMs

Well, we know for sure one cold hard fact is that the Colts will not be paying that $28MM option bonus due March 8.

[Flash7]

Any... if anyone says anything positive about Manning it's grabbing straws... If anyone says anything negative it's cold hard facts to you LFCMs

If I start a thread about how great Peyton Manning was, I would have a lot of positive comments. Most posters on this forum love Peyton Manning.

If I were to say that regardless of his age, his health, and his ability to throw, he should remain the starting QB and be given 28 Million, I would not have positive comments. You should understand the difference. If you're lobbying for Peyton without proof of his health, there will be resistance unless Manning can prove otherwise.

[jedi.creech]

Well, we know for sure one cold hard fact is that the Colts will not be paying that $28MM option bonus due March 8.

LOL true.. Well hopefully Manning can get in a good AFC team to teach Irsay a lesson for a few years.

[MR. Blueblood]

Any... if anyone says anything positive about Manning it's grabbing straws... If anyone says anything negative it's cold hard facts to you LFCMs

Does me not wanting Irsay to not pay huge amounts of money to Manning (seeing as how nobody knows when he can play, and how effective he will be) make me a member of the LFCM IYO? I'm just wanting to know what qualifies somebody as a LFCM.

[Fx Stryker]

It doesn't matter whether or not he had a 4th surgery. We still know all along what has gone on. There isn't unknown information on what was operated with. They could have split a surgery in two parts for sake of time. So surgery 1, then surgery 2, surgery 2.1, then the neck fusion. By saying fourth makes it sound a lot worse then it really is. Why is it just as things start going right for Peyton, media losing their "big story", this comes out. He hasn't had anymore work than what we previously known. Media is just playing on words. This "fourth" surgery could easily be seen as three surgeries, but one surgery had two parts. Everything is the same as yesterday in what we knew.

[UndecidedFrog]

LOL true.. Well hopefully Manning can get in a good AFC team to teach Irsay a lesson for a few years.

If you support such an idea, you are not a Colts fan.

[presto123]

Any... if anyone says anything positive about Manning it's grabbing straws... If anyone says anything negative it's cold hard facts to you LFCMs

I like positive Manning news but conspiracy theories are a bit much.

[UndecidedFrog]

Does me not wanting Irsay to not pay huge amounts of money to Manning (seeing as how nobody knows when he can play, and how effective he will be) make me a member of the LFCM IYO? I'm just wanting to know what qualifies somebody as a LFCM.

I think de facto, if you are not a Manning fanboy, you are a LFCM.

It's like religion....he that is not with me is against me.

[jedi.creech]

Does me not wanting Irsay to not pay huge amounts of money to Manning (seeing as how nobody knows when he can play, and how effective he will be) make me a member of the LFCM IYO? I'm just wanting to know what qualifies somebody as a LFCM.

Okay I'll put you into a new group then if it makes you feel better, you can be in the AMFC (anti-manning fan club) if that makes you feel better.

[pmanningfan1896]

Strange thing is the article claims that Polian was aware of PM's throwing limitations to red zone. Yet Polian is now claiming he saw PM throw longer in December.

That is weird, but do you think Polian would lie about something like that? For what reason?

[MR. Blueblood]

I think de facto, if you are not a Manning fanboy, you are a LFCM.

It's like religion....he that is not with me is against me.

I think that is true.

I was just wondering because I've never said that I want Manning gone in favor of Luck, I've just gone on record as saying that Manning's contract needs to be adjusted to the reality of the situation, and if it can't be then there is no other choice. I'm not in favor of one man's legacy being more important than the team. Paying Manning for the sake of paying him is doing just that.

[pmanningfan1896]

You are mistaken.

Another poster claimed that Peyton said that he was willing to accept an incentive based contract, which turned out to be untrue.

I, on the other hand, have not claimed that Peyton said anything about a 4th surgery.

You are free to believe or not believe if a 4th surgical procedure has taken place.

Where is it said that he will not sign an incentive based contract?

[MR. Blueblood]

Okay I'll put you into a new group then if it makes you feel better, you can be in the AMFC (anti-manning fan club) if that makes you feel better.

I've never been anti-Manning...I'm only anti-Manning getting paid $28 million when he can't show that he will be the Manning that justifies $28 million dollars.

[Fx Stryker]

Also just being certified by HIPPA, I know Peyton has to give direct consent on his records. Bayone I assume knows from being a doctor. The things is Peyton may have not given restriction on what they could say. Possibly SI could have just wanted to do a piece on the "clearance of Peyton," and talked to his doctors. They could have mentioned a "fourth surgery" in the talks. Like I said in my last post it could just be a media spin on what doctors said. They necessarily may not be wrong, but are using words to make things sound more dramatic.