deflated footballs and some other observations

[5toolplayer]

Why does a franchise that has proven they are one of the elite organizations in the NFL continue to do all these little nonesense tricks? It made ZERO difference in the game vs Indy because NE could have won that game using a beachball, but its the fact they feel the need to always do shady % when they have no reason to is just pitiful and takes away a little of the respect this organization has earned. I guess that's why Hall of Fame coach Don Shula ,the winningest coach in NFL history, refers to NE's coach as “Belichick”

 

[da_pats_troll]

This is a joke right? In the "general vicinity of Bradys head/neck"? Freeman put his face mask squarely in Bradys numbers. It was a horrible call. And if it has been anyone on the Pats hitting Luck that way with a penalty call I'd say the same thing.

 

 unless his numbers are on his chin, you would be mistaken.

 

[jimmy g]

unless his numbers are on his chin, you would be mistaken.

looking at the picture, its neither helmet to helmet nor leading with the crown. Looks legal.

[Kalbo]

I got to hand it to my wife. The way the Patriots were pushing the Colts around she observed that possibly the Patriot players had used steroids. Sure enough, we find out today the NFL is investigating the Patriots for deflating their balls.

[da_pats_troll]

looking at the picture, its neither helmet to helmet nor leading with the crown. Looks legal.

 

Here's the rule

 

HITS TO PASSER’S HEAD AND USE OF HELMET AND FACEMASK

(3) In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders

impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of

the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary-roughness

rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in

a defenseless posture for example, (a) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet

or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by

encircling or grasping him, or (b) lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or

forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not

prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a

conventional tackle on a passer. 

 

 

My original point was it was "iffy". By reading the rule, and looking @ the pic, I stand by that. Could of gone either way.

[peytonmanning18]

Agree on all points.

I'd have to see a replay of the blind side block to see if it was indeed "blind sided" but it is illegal.

The roughing the passer was a joke.

Mike Carey is useless. I cannot believe he was a referee. Actually, it explains a lot.

Mike Carey isn't going to say anything to make his refereeing buddies look bad.

[jimmy g]

Here's the rule

HITS TO PASSER’S HEAD AND USE OF HELMET AND FACEMASK

(3) In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders

impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of

the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary-roughness

rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in

a defenseless posture for example, (a) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet

or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by

encircling or grasping him, or (b) lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or

forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not

prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a

conventional tackle on a passer.

My original point was it was "iffy". By reading the rule, and looking @ the pic, I stand by that. Could of gone either way.

reading the rule, looked legal.

[ruksak]

The only thing that was deflated on purpose was our team. 

[pgt_rob]

Apparently D'Qwell Jackson brought it to the official's attention that the ball was deflated after intercepting Tom Brady. I can't remember if this was before or after the refs were seen throwing footballs off the field.

 

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/reports-colts-reported-deflated-ball-after-jackson-pick?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

[braveheartcolt]

Oh, Patriots......what a let down.....

[mintor]

Deflated balls had no relavence on the outcome.

 

 

yes. it does , a. rain , b wind,  are two things can effect the outcome of the football. alone with a properly inflated football.   deinflated a football has great  has great effect on a ball as field goals , punt returns , passing and running.  for pats deflated ball easier kick ,pass,run  in bad weather.  for the colts don,t have  advantage of the pats . due too they have legal inflated ball.

 

 

now if colts had a bowl over inflated effect a lot in wt weather such as harder too catch, shorter range too kick a field goal,  shorter punts. harder too hold on to the football.

[NagelHausForge]

Well I can't say I am surprised really by the news... Not that it seemingly made a difference in the outcome, but who knows, maybe some of those catches would have been incompletes or some of those tough runs made by Blount would have resulted in fumbles?  You never know.  However, if it does turn out that they did intentionally under-inflate their balls AFTER they were checked by the league before game time then the NFL needs to come down hard on them in my opinion.  Obviously they won't disqualify them from the super bowl but they need to do something other than just take a draft pick away.  If this league is truly all about ethics and sportsmanship then it needs to nut up and prove it.

 

And on the roughing the passer call it was clear to me that he led with his hands and his facemask made contact with Brady's chest, not neck or face.  It was a total nonsense call. 

 

What's done is done and pissing and moaning isn't going to change the fact that the Colts got smoked.  But hey, if you can't complain on the internet what can you do?

[NagelHausForge]

yes. it does , a. rain , b wind,  are two things can effect the outcome of the football. alone with a properly inflated football.   deinflated a football has great  has great effect on a ball as field goals , punt returns , passing and running.  for pats deflated ball easier kick ,pass,run  in bad weather.  for the colts don,t have  advantage of the pats . due too they have legal inflated ball.

 

 

now if colts had a bowl over inflated effect a lot in wt weather such as harder too catch, shorter range too kick a field goal,  shorter punts. harder too hold on to the football.

 

Is there a reason you type like this?  It makes it impossible to read your posts.

[mintor]

Well I can't say I am surprised really by the news... Not that it seemingly made a difference in the outcome, but who knows, maybe some of those catches would have been incompletes or some of those tough runs made by Blount would have resulted in fumbles?  You never know.  However, if it does turn out that they did intentionally under-inflate their balls AFTER they were checked by the league before game time then the NFL needs to come down hard on them in my opinion.  Obviously they won't disqualify them from the super bowl but they need to do something other than just take a draft pick away.  If this league is truly all about ethics and sportsmanship then it needs to nut up and prove it.

 

And on the roughing the passer call it was clear to me that he led with his hands and his facemask made contact with Brady's chest, not neck or face.  It was a total nonsense call. 

 

What's done is done and pissing and moaning isn't going to change the fact that the Colts got smoked.  But hey, if you can't complain on the internet what can you do?

 

 

 

 true as long brady playing for ne . nfl do zero too the pats.

[ElMaestro]

Isn't this the same NFL who destroyed the Spygate tapes?  So, we're supposed to trust NFL officials to investigate this matter, without any bias, and bring forth their findings?  

 

The NFL is all about the money, and this new Patriots scandal impacts that cash flow.    

 

In my opinion, sometime between now and the Superbowl, the NFL will release a very brief statement which says nothing was discovered.  Hell, the whole story is being sold as "sore losers" and blaming the Colts - plenty of the national media types are chiming right in with the same message.  

[ruksak]

 true as long brady playing for ne . nfl do zero too the pats.

How about we wait until the investigation is finished before jumping to conclusions? It's very possible that a far less dramatic explanation will be at hand. Maybe it was just one ball that was either defective or improperly handled pregame. Maybe someone goofed up in preparing them (innocently, without malice) and then, in turn, the officials didn't do their job and check the balls properly? 

 

Or.....maybe the Patriots cheated and they deserve to catch hell for what they did. We should chill out and wait a bit for clarity. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

That Freeman roughing the passer call was awful. I didn't know hitting Brady in the chest was considered helmet to helmet. Not to mention it wasn't even a late hit either. Just a pathetic call.

 

I remember the talking heads said it was helmet to helmet, but it wasn't. However, and This was documented by a picture in an earlier game this year, if the D guy leads with the helmet, even into the chest of the QB, it will be flagged.  Crown or facemask. At that point, the QB is still in defenseless position (in the final stages of making a pass), and also afforded extra protection that a running back would not get.

I think the refs used

 

Rule 12, section 2, article 8, subsection g-   If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily.

 

Refs are told to error on side of safety, and one view looked worse than the other.  Plus Brady sold it with a (delayed) toss back of the head.

 

 

 

So we can complain, but the refs have the rulebook on their side.  But I've seen Luck take worse and it not called.  I think even Luck was taken aback at that call.

 

 

But this play, nor deflated footballs lost this game. Deflated wills did. We have to get better talent around Luck, and better execution out of everyone.

[Trevock]

Yep we cheated you guys.

 

To sum up:

 

1. We had time to deflate all 12 balls on our sideline by with a needle pump that we secretly have just lying around.  We were doing this while we scored 40+ points.

 

2. We used our magical powers to curse the footballs on your side so that you only put up 7 points.  Do you believe in magic?

 

3. The deflated footballs that we used gave Blount enough juice to run for almost 200 yards on your defense.  Dat grip baby!

 

4. We were spying on your sideline with cameras recording all of the symantics of your footballs to test proper deflating and inflation techniques.  Don't you know, we're the champions of spygate!

 

5. We deflated a SPECIAL football so D'Qwell Jackson could get enough grip to intercept the ball.

 

6. We used the football deflating technique on the other 6 straight games we've beaten you including the 4-1 postseason record against you.

 

7. We also steal your cheerleaders.

 

8.  We also paid the refs so they would call the roughing the passer calls on your team.  

 

9. We're moving onto Seattle.

 

 

- Patriots fan

 

 

[ThatOneColtFan]

We would've gotten smoked either way but I cannot stand the Pats. First this then the dumb substitution thing. Why not just do things the way they're supposed to be done instead of finding tryhard loopholes?

Whatever, I will enjoy the Seahawks dismantling them in the Superbowl.

[Trevock]

We would've gotten smoked either way but I cannot stand the Pats. First this then the dumb substitution thing. Why not just do things the way they're supposed to be done instead of finding tryhard loopholes?

Whatever, I will enjoy the Seahawks dismantling them in the Superbowl.

 

You mean putting in players as eligible receivers?  It's a good tactic and other teams use it as well.  Seattle even uses it.  Also, one of the plays we got penalized because of a miscommunication doing the substitution.  

 

Was this the reason why we scored 40+ points and you only scored 7?   

[bababooey]

How about we wait until the investigation is finished before jumping to conclusions? It's very possible that a far less dramatic explanation will be at hand. Maybe it was just one ball that was either defective or improperly handled pregame. Maybe someone goofed up in preparing them (innocently, without malice) and then, in turn, the officials didn't do their job and check the balls properly? 

 

Or.....maybe the Patriots cheated and they deserve to catch hell for what they did. We should chill out and wait a bit for clarity. 

The Pats don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. Also it wasn't "one" ball, it was several.

[cantabrigian]

Hi guys, new here but I just wanted to give my take on this whole thing. Frankly, all colts fans would do well to let this go and not pursue this matter. If the NFL investigates and finds it one way or the other, so be it. It will not affect the outcome of the game. It was pretty clear from the way the game went that even if it was the colts playing with deflated balls. they still would have lost. 

 

The problem with pursing this line of thought is that it does no good and only harms the colts in the end. 

 

1. Will it hurt the Pats? No. Even if they cheated, the organisation won't care. They will just put the blame on the ball boy. The fans are annoyed but they have already dealt with worse in 07 and some are already going "meh" to this latest thing. 

 

2. The undue attention is making people take it less than seriously. All the jokes going around about this means that regardless of the outcome of the investigation, people are not going to take this that seriously. 

 

3. Most importantly, It is making the colts look like sore losers and cry babies. I am detecting this in even the neutral fans, since it was a colts player whining and an indy writer blowing this up. It looks like the colts will blame everything but themselves in this manner and will continue to whine whine whine. This has started since the 2004 AFCCG and the colts have had a reputation for being soft. I frankly think it even hurts the colts. I bet the Pats always look at the colts like bullies eyeing easy lunch money from momma's boy. 

 

4. There are serious issues in the team make up. Luck needs more weapons and the running game on both sides is atrocious. There are discipline issues with rape charges and missed flights and what not. This sort of scandal frankly deflects attention and heat away from the coaching staff and management and allow them to play victim. In the meantime, things don't get fixed. Playing in the AFCS means colts will always be in the playoffs. But one cannot hope to face a Bengals teams with banged up AJ Greens or a soft broncos team with the biggest choke artist in the world at QB. If it was a colts ravens match in the post season (with the ravens in post season mode), I think the ravens take it. These must be fixed and the full trauma of the 45-7 loss must be felt if the needed changes are to be made.

 

Thanks for your consideration.  

[Trevock]

The Pats don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. Also it wasn't "one" ball, it was several.

 

And you know this how?  The NFL has already stated that it was one ball and that ball was delivered to the staff. 

 

Or are you going by what that Colts reporter stated?

[ElMaestro]

And you know this how?  The NFL has already stated that it was one ball and that ball was delivered to the staff. 

 

Or are you going by what that Colts reporter stated?

The Head of Officiating of the NFL said yesterday that it was "several balls" taken out of play.  

[ruksak]

The Pats don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. Also it wasn't "one" ball, it was several.

You're grabbing snippets of cursory speculative info from media reports. Nothing is confirmed as far as I know beyond one ball being taken out, and we don't even know if that ball was suspect or just taken out for testing because that's when word got to the refs. 

 

The Patriots deserve some benefit of the doubt here, because it strikes me as insanely stupid to try such a thing knowing that refs and the opposing team will touch their balls numerous times through the game (get your mind out of the gutter). 

 

I find the very idea absolutely ridiculous, and I think Tom Brady summed it up best when he laughed and laughed when asked about the deflated balls during a radio interview yesterday. 

[Trevock]

The Head of Officiating of the NFL said yesterday that it was "several balls" taken out of play.  

 

Please post a link because NFL Network said there was only one ball that was removed from play.

[Myles]

You're grabbing snippets of cursory speculative info from media reports. Nothing is confirmed as far as I know beyond one ball being taken out, and we don't even know if that ball was suspect or just taken out for testing because that's when word got to the refs. 

 

The Patriots deserve some benefit of the doubt here, because it strikes me as insanely stupid to try such a thing knowing that refs and the opposing team will touch their balls numerous times through the game (get your mind out of the gutter). 

 

I find the very idea absolutely ridiculous, and I think Tom Brady summed it up best when he laughed and laughed when asked about the deflated balls during a radio interview yesterday. 

Not sure why they deserve the benefit of the doubt.   They have cheated before.   If anything, they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.  

 

Belichick  will do anything to win.   I wish we had a coach like that.   But you need to know that if you get caught, you deserve the penalty.  

[ElMaestro]

Please post a link because NFL Network said there was only one ball that was removed from play.

I heard the interview on NFL.com yesterday morning, but that video/audio is no longer there.  It was combined with the WEEI video where Brady was interviewed and asked about under-inflated balls, and then they cut and went to a phone interview with Dean Blandino who stated it.

 

Believe me, this morning when I posted that, I tried to search for it again on NFL.com and it's not there.  

 

Also, since I'm new here, all my posts must receive moderator approval first - or I would have gone back and edited my original post to reflect that the support is not there anymore.

 

You're welcome to believe me or not.  But I heard it.  

[Trevock]

Balls are given to the officials 2:10 minutes before kick off for inspection. The balls are under the control of the officials until the game starts at which time the balls are given to the ball boys.  Neither team can then choose which balls they are going to get. So if there was a deflated ball, New England could not ensure that they were going to get it.

In order for New England to get deflated balls on a consistent basis, there has to be a fairly large number of people in collusion.   Are you really going to tell me this happened?  

[bababooey]

You're grabbing snippets of cursory speculative info from media reports. Nothing is confirmed as far as I know beyond one ball being taken out, and we don't even know if that ball was suspect or just taken out for testing because that's when word got to the refs. 

 

The Patriots deserve some benefit of the doubt here, because it strikes me as insanely stupid to try such a thing knowing that refs and the opposing team will touch their balls numerous times through the game (get your mind out of the gutter). 

 

I find the very idea absolutely ridiculous, and I think Tom Brady summed it up best when he laughed and laughed when asked about the deflated balls during a radio interview yesterday. 

Again, the New England Patriots do not deserve any benefit of the doubt when it comes to cheating because the same owner/GM/HC has been caught cheating before. Pro Football Talk did confirm that "several" abnormal balls were removed from the game. It's normal for one but several begs the questions 1. How did this happen? and 2. Was it deliberate? And no the weather had nothing to do with all the balls magically losing pressure.

 

What was Brady supposed to say? "Ha yea didn't think they would actually intercept us and notice it", Gronk saying "LOL whoops bc I spiked the ball so much in the blowout". Typical arrogant Pats players deflecting and dismissing their own cheating.

[ruksak]

Not sure why they deserve the benefit of the doubt.   

 

Because this is one of the silliest accusations I've ever heard in my life. 

 

Spygate was what? 10 years ago? 

[Trevock]

Again, the New England Patriots do not deserve any benefit of the doubt when it comes to cheating because the same owner/GM/HC has been caught cheating before. Pro Football Talk did confirm that "several" abnormal balls were removed from the game. It's normal for one but several begs the questions 1. How did this happen? and 2. Was it deliberate? And no the weather had nothing to do with all the balls magically losing pressure.

 

What was Brady supposed to say? "Ha yea didn't think they would actually intercept us and notice it", Gronk saying "LOL whoops bc I spiked the ball so much in the blowout". Typical arrogant Pats players deflecting and dismissing their own cheating.

 

Come on man.  Seriously.  Do you really believe the Pats deliberately tried to deflate balls so they could win?  Please stop being a sore loser.  You guys only could put up 7 points on us.  You guys let Blount run for over 150 yards and 3 touchdowns.  We've beaten you six straight times including the post-season.

 

Are we really trying to go there right now? 

[ruksak]

Again, the New England Patriots do not deserve any benefit of the doubt when it comes to cheating because the same owner/GM/HC has been caught cheating before. Pro Football Talk did confirm that "several" abnormal balls were removed from the game. It's normal for one but several begs the questions 1. How did this happen? and 2. Was it deliberate? And no the weather had nothing to do with all the balls magically losing pressure.

 

What was Brady supposed to say? "Ha yea didn't think they would actually intercept us and notice it", Gronk saying "LOL whoops bc I spiked the ball so much in the blowout". Typical arrogant Pats players deflecting and dismissing their own cheating.

Yet everyone here wanted to give Irsay the benefit of the doubt when he was caught driving around like common street trash with a sack full of cash and drugs.......

 

 

Hey, if it comes out that something was up with all/most of their balls and ours were just fine......okay, I'll be ticked off. But I'm not gonna jump on the Patriots-hate bandwagon based off of an incident that took place 10 years ago. 

[bababooey]

Yet everyone here wanted to give Irsay the benefit of the doubt when he was caught driving around like common street trash with a sack full of cash and drugs.......

 

 

Hey, if it comes out that something was up with all/most of their balls and ours were just fine......okay, I'll be ticked off. But I'm not gonna jump on the Patriots-hate bandwagon based off of an incident that took place 10 years ago. 

You are comparing cheating in the NFL to breaking a law in real life. You lose all credibility just by that comparison alone. Obviously there is bias here because he is the Colts owner and this is a Colts forum.

 

That is your decision to not jump on a hate bandwagon but when the same HC/GM/Owner get caught cheating multiple times yet remain so successful, a lot of other people will hold on to that.

[Myles]

Because this is one of the silliest accusations I've ever heard in my life. 

 

Spygate was what? 10 years ago? 

Same owner, GM and head coach.   

That doesn't mean they are guilty, but it does warrant removal of the "benefit of the doubt".  

[Myles]

Yet everyone here wanted to give Irsay the benefit of the doubt when he was caught driving around like common street trash with a sack full of cash and drugs.......

 

 

Hey, if it comes out that something was up with all/most of their balls and ours were just fine......okay, I'll be ticked off. But I'm not gonna jump on the Patriots-hate bandwagon based off of an incident that took place 10 years ago. 

I didn't realize Irsay was given a pass.   Not by me.   Also with his history of drug use, I don't think he deserved "the benefit of the doubt".

[Chardo]

To those of you who call the Pats cheaters without knowing the story, I suggest you read up before you speak. Most people who accuse the Patriots of cheating are completely ill-informed bandwagon jumpers who are looking for anything to rationalize thier success. They get mad at the team for winning so immediately refer to "Spygate" without knowing anything about the situation.  I suggest anyone who thinks the Patriots CHEATED go to this article a few years back from bleacher report. Then come back and explain to us all how it was cheating.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/199345-the-truth-about-spygate-punishing-success-and-promoting-parity#articles/199345-the-truth-about-spygate-punishing-success-and-promoting-parity

 

For the 1-thousandth time....the Patriots broke a rule, they did not cheat. There is a difference.  In baseball, managers get fined for wearing non-uniform tops in the dugout.  They are breaking a rule.  Is that giving them an unfair advantage (ie cheating)? No. 

 

And as others on this board have stated, the refs handle every ball on every play.  If there were balls that were severely deflated, the refs would have noticed.  And stop saying it was multiple footballs.  Every story has stated it was one.  Don't embelish.

[BullsColtsFan1]

If this is true about the deflated footballs I have even less respect for the Patriots organization.  Did the Colts get whooped? Yes I don't think the deflated balls had anything to do with it.  The Pats are a better team.  This almost reminds me of the late 80's Bulls Pistons playoff battles.  It took the Bulls 2 or 3 years of getting whooped before they finally figured it out and got over the hump.  The Bulls eventually gave the Pistons a taste of their own medicine. This Pats team is the only team that stands in the way in the AFC. I strongly believe the Colts can take out any other playoff contender(Ravens, Steelers, Broncos, Bengals, Chargers, Chiefs, Texans etc).  Hopefully we build a consistent O-line next year, establish a run game and upgrade the defense.  The Colts have gotten one game better every year, they are young and only getting better. 

[HoggHannah]

Watch this video and then lets all decide what to do about the Packers and Aaron Rodgers.

 

http://vid809.photobucket.com/albums/zz11/mascho030916/Football%20Central/ScreenCaptureProject295.mp4

Edited January 20, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[Dan'l Boom]

Refs missed some calls on both teams...sooo...  this loss is solemnly on Colts. We fell short even being competitive.

If the Patriots were deflating balls, it did not help them.  They ran up the score in the 2nd half, after the pressure of the balls came into question.