Did anyone agree with Mike Carey on his ruling? Is this a fumble or an incomplete pass?

[Coltswarriors]

Obvious fumble.

 

He stated something along the lines of "The player didn't bring the ball into his body" by this definition, someone could run with the ball 30 yards down field, never bringing it into his body and it would be a incomplete pass if someone knocked it out of his hands.

[RockThatBlue]

It was a fumble and its not even close. Mike carey must have been smoking something

[ColtsBlueFL]

I honestly can see it go either way. If this picture is of TY then the vote will be an incomplete pass.

Andre catches the ball with his left foot down, takes a right step, and on the second full step the ball comes loose tucking the ball in. Now did he make a football move? The NFL rules don't define what that is. The precedent has always been two full steps. So since he starts losing control on the second full step is that established control? Is it a classic drop scenario, no. But there has been clearer fumbles that went called as incomplete, and clearer incomplete passes go as fumbles.

 

The rules don't state you have to make a football move any more. I does mention having both feet down in possession (it was if even for a split second) and that means there is now time to initiate any act common to the game, but you don't have to actually initiate it, or you can. To Initiate is the key word, not complete.  So what could be considered initiating a football move?  To initiate the process to bring the pass in to the body. To initiate the process to begin to pitch or lateral the catch.  To initiate a process to begin to turn head and body up field.  Just about anything. Or combos together.

 

Remember it is not making, or even initiating any act common to the game.  The wording states possession and now the time to initiate, not actually having to initiate.  From what I've seen of Blandino's influence, if the receive has not been contacted by the defender, as soon as the second foot is down and the ball is not being bobbled, the time for a football move to be initiated has already begun.  Now any loss of possession is a fumble, whether trying a football move or not; just running straight ahead.

 

Now if the receiver gets contact before or as that second foot touches, then a whole other set of rules comes into play for ruling complete or incomplete.  This is what I've seen from reading the rules and watching the results of challenges sent to Blandino at Replay HQ in NY.

 

Rule:

 

Article 3 Completed or Intercepted Pass.

A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A

forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms p

rior to the ball touching the ground; and

(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and © maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it,advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).

Note 1: It is not necessary that he commit such an act, provided that he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so

[Superman]

The rules don't state you have to make a football move any more. I does mention having both feet down in possession (it was if even for a split second) and that means there is now time to initiate any act common to the game, but you don't have to actually initiate it, or you can. To Initiate is the key word, not complete.  So what could be considered initiating a football move?  To initiate the process to bring the pass in to the body. To initiate the process to begin to pitch or lateral the catch.  To initiate a process to begin to turn head and body up field.  Just about anything. Or combos together.

 

Remember it is not making, or even initiating any act common to the game.  The wording states possession and now the time to initiate, not actually having to initiate.  From what I've seen of Blandino's influence, if the receive has not been contacted by the defender, as soon as the second foot is down and the ball is not being bobbled, the time for a football move to be initiated has already begun.  Now any loss of possession is a fumble, whether trying a football move or not; just running straight ahead.

 

Now if the receiver gets contact before or as that second foot touches, then a whole other set of rules comes into play for ruling complete or incomplete.  This is what I've seen from reading the rules and watching the results of challenges sent to Blandino at Replay HQ in NY.

 

Rule:

 

Article 3 Completed or Intercepted Pass.

A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A

forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms p

rior to the ball touching the ground; and

(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and © maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it,advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).

Note 1: It is not necessary that he commit such an act, provided that he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so

 

Good stuff. Also, it's important to note that this standard changes if the receiver is going to the ground while trying to complete the catch. If that's the case, he has to maintain control of the football through the entire process in order for it to be considered a catch. So while the standard has somewhat been lowered for what constitutes a catch, that is not true of a play where the receiver is going to the ground while trying to catch the ball. That kind of play still has a much higher standard.

 

If Andre Johnson was going to the ground while trying to get control of the football, this would be an incomplete pass.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Good stuff. Also, it's important to note that this standard changes if the receiver is going to the ground while trying to complete the catch. If that's the case, he has to maintain control of the football through the entire process in order for it to be considered a catch. So while the standard has somewhat been lowered for what constitutes a catch, that is not true of a play where the receiver is going to the ground while trying to catch the ball. That kind of play still has a much higher standard.

 

If Andre Johnson was going to the ground while trying to get control of the football, this would be an incomplete pass.

 

Yes!  good mention-

 

N.F.L. Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1: Going to the ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

 

Them the rules folks....