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Eagles's Cary Williams: Patriots are 'cheaters'

Shane Bond

By Shane Bond
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Shane Bond Walk On

Shane Bond

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His memo to all 32 teams was not a non-issue. He felt disrespected by Bill and dealt the punishment accordingly and he has continued to rule that way his entire tenure. His MO has been to run a tight ship.

 

I find it rather amusing to believe the punishment was given due to one human being's ego.

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Archer Team Captain

Archer

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I'm still waiting for anyone to explain how the Patriots used footage recorded during games to help them IN those games.

We know that didn't happen, but wishful thinking by whiners and crybabies continues.

Polian and Dungy, as well as others like Jimmy Johnson and many other NFL coaches and GMs, have stated that what the Patriots did gave them no advantage.

The level of idiocy when it comes to misunderstanding Soygate is hilarious .

And for the * who like to point to the fine, the fine was for flying in the face of Goodell's memo.

 

And I'm still waiting for someone to explain why BB (a bona fide genius) would illegally tape the signals being sent in if he received no benefit from it.  Pretty big risk to take, don't you think?  With today's video products, it seems like these videos could EASILY be used to steal some signals in those games.  The tapes contain the signals, the QB's calls at the line, and the play that is run.  Find any play that has been run more than once, and it's possible to steal the signal or the QB's calls.  To steal all the signals - no.  To influence a number of plays in the second half - easily.  Anyone suggesting this is an impossible task is probably a Patriot fan making excuses...

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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And I'm still waiting for someone to explain why BB (a bona fide genius) would illegally tape the signals being sent in if he received no benefit from it.  Pretty big risk to take, don't you think?  With today's video products, it seems like these videos could EASILY be used to steal some signals in those games.  The tapes contain the signals, the QB's calls at the line, and the play that is run.  Find any play that has been run more than once, and it's possible to steal the signal or the QB's calls.  To steal all the signals - no.  To influence a number of plays in the second half - easily.  Anyone suggesting this is an impossible task is probably a Patriot fan making excuses...

The footage was not used in-game. Bill has been doing it forever - he admitted that as it was not against the rules. The issue was the location of the camera on the sidelines.

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TAPLOOK Walk On

TAPLOOK

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And you want us to believe

 

500k fine

250k fine

1st round draft pick

 

was a decision made due to one guy's ego and Pats have nothing to contribute.

Do you use the punishment fitting the crime criteria always or is it reserved for the Patriots? I thought so. Dumb argument. 

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TAPLOOK Walk On

TAPLOOK

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I see how you still havent answered the question.

There's no point. 6-6 very well my be the most games and wins post Spygate but you can figure it out if you like. I know if filming won SB's I'd still be doing it and I would like to think BB would as well.

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GoPats Practice Squad

GoPats

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I find it rather amusing to believe the punishment was given due to one human being's ego.

 

Actually the punishment was mostly consistent with previous situations. 

 

The Broncos were fined nearly $1 million and were stripped of a 3rd-round pick when the league discovered they had cheated the salary cap during their Super Bowl years in 1997 and 1998. 

 

Read all about it here: http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/01/17/barstool-sports-jerry-thornton-remember-when-denver-cheated/

 

(For those not familiar with the background, Denver broke the rules by promising close to $30 million in deferred payments to John Elway and Terrell Davis, allowing them to keep the team intact.) 

 

The Patriots loss of a first-rounder was a bit more harsh for sure. But people always talk about the "unprecedented" punishment for Spygate, and it actually was not quite unprecedented. 

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Shane Bond Walk On

Shane Bond

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Actually the punishment was mostly consistent with previous situations. 

 

The Broncos were fined nearly $1 million and were stripped of a 3rd-round pick when the league discovered they had cheated the salary cap during their Super Bowl years in 1997 and 1998. 

 

Read all about it here: http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/01/17/barstool-sports-jerry-thornton-remember-when-denver-cheated/

 

(For those not familiar with the background, Denver broke the rules by promising close to $30 million in deferred payments to John Elway and Terrell Davis, allowing them to keep the team intact.) 

 

The Patriots loss of a first-rounder was a bit more harsh for sure. But people always talk about the "unprecedented" punishment for Spygate, and it actually was not quite unprecedented. 

Based on your post, you are admitting there was a cheating by Pats ( if you are comparing to the above, see the Bolded ).

 

Also, how many instances do we have punishments this severe?. May be only these two which makes it a pretty severe one rather than some's opinion that just a guy's ego. And moreover, Goodell wasn't the commissioner when the Broncos were punished. So there.

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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From Goodell himself:

"The actual effectiveness of taping and taking of signals from opponents … it's something done widely in many sports," Goodell said. "I think it probably had limited, if any, effect on the outcome of games.

"That doesn't change my perspective on violating rules and the need to be punished," he added.

 

http://www.thesunchronicle.com/sports/goodell-laments-spygate-questions/article_a9207556-007d-50d9-b8de-dfb3a47b35ba.html

 

Pretty much have it right there that he was setting a precedent about following the rules.

 

He also added this about destroying the tapes, "The reason I destroyed the tapes is they were totally consistent with what the team told me," Goodell said. "It was the appropriate thing to do and I think it sent a message."

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TAPLOOK Walk On

TAPLOOK

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From Goodell himself:

"The actual effectiveness of taping and taking of signals from opponents … it's something done widely in many sports," Goodell said. "I think it probably had limited, if any, effect on the outcome of games.

"That doesn't change my perspective on violating rules and the need to be punished," he added.

 

http://www.thesunchronicle.com/sports/goodell-laments-spygate-questions/article_a9207556-007d-50d9-b8de-dfb3a47b35ba.html

 

Pretty much have it right there that he was setting a precedent about following the rules.

 

He also added this about destroying the tapes, "The reason I destroyed the tapes is they were totally consistent with what the team told me," Goodell said. "It was the appropriate thing to do and I think it sent a message."

That's a cover-up just like when the US government perpetrated 911. 

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GoPats Practice Squad

GoPats

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Based on your post, you are admitting there was a cheating by Pats ( if you are comparing to the above, see the Bolded ).

 

Also, how many instances do we have punishments this severe?. May be only these two which makes it a pretty severe one rather than some's opinion that just a guy's ego. And moreover, Goodell wasn't the commissioner when the Broncos were punished. So there.

 

The Patriots broke the rules and were punished for it. Not sure what there is for me to "admit" or deny. It happened. The question that will never truly be answered to anyone's satisfaction is how much did it help them? Based on the pre-Spygate and post-Spygate results, I'm not sure how anyone could say that it helped them a lot. Not winning a Super Bowl in the past seven seasons (while reaching two of them, mind you) should not be an indictment of guilt. No matter what Cary Williams tries to tell you. 

 

The only other case I can think of that got as big as Spygate or the Broncos' scandal was Bountygate with the Saints. But that's a completely different type of situation, at least in my opinion. That wasn't necessarily about gaining a competitive edge or pushing the rules too far. So I don't think there's a lot to compare it to. 

 

I wonder, had the Internet and message boards really exploded by 1997/1998, if there wouldn't be more backlash against the Broncos. If you ask me, deliberately circumventing the salary cap in order to keep your star players is a worse offense than anything the Patriots ever did. 

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Kyle Practice Squad

Kyle

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You still haven't answered my question .

How typical .

What advantage did the Patriots gain?

seriously??  I am not going to word for word read, quote, and explain it to you.  You know they had video tapes they were not allowed to have.  it is a game of inches.  I did not say that spygate made the pats dynasty years what they were.  I am just saying that the only reason they filmed what they filmed was to gain an advantage.  that is just common sense and an unarguable fact.

 

 I would be saying the same thing if any of the other 30 teams did it.  I would be embarrassed if the Colts did.  Would I disown them?  no, but i sure would admit to it

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Coffeedrinker Practice Squad

Coffeedrinker

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What competitive advantage was gained?

This is what NONE of you has explained

This is one of the most stupid questions asked on this forum.  

 

Many teams change signals week to week.  That is because teams see the signals during their film review.  But to answer your question, teams develop their game plan based on tendencies, team A runs the ball over the RG 43.4% of the time one 2 and 6 when they are between the 20, for example.  The taping of signals takes the guess work out for the coordinators.  In the 2nd half of the game, rather than calling a defense based on the tendency of the team to run, all they have to do is watch the signal and call the appropriate D.  Sure the players still have to play but it's much easier to play when you know it's going to be a run over the RG rather than thinking well, it's most likely a run but I can't commit too quickly in case that TE sneaks out for a pass.

 

I know Pats fans will say, "But BB said they never used it during the game..."  Yeah right, kind of like Obama said if you like your insurance you will get keep your insurance.

 

Now answer these questions:

  • If there is no competitive advantage then why do it?
  • If there is no value to watching film then why do coaches and players spend hours watching film/
  • If it wasn't any big deal then why did the league fine the coach(largest fine in league history at the time) and the owner(largest owner fine in league history) and take away draft picks?
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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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The Patriots broke the rules and were punished for it. Not sure what there is for me to "admit" or deny. It happened. The question that will never truly be answered to anyone's satisfaction is how much did it help them? Based on the pre-Spygate and post-Spygate results, I'm not sure how anyone could say that it helped them a lot. Not winning a Super Bowl in the past seven seasons (while reaching two of them, mind you) should not be an indictment of guilt. No matter what Cary Williams tries to tell you. 

 

The only other case I can think of that got as big as Spygate or the Broncos' scandal was Bountygate with the Saints. But that's a completely different type of situation, at least in my opinion. That wasn't necessarily about gaining a competitive edge or pushing the rules too far. So I don't think there's a lot to compare it to. 

 

I wonder, had the Internet and message boards really exploded by 1997/1998, if there wouldn't be more backlash against the Broncos. If you ask me, deliberately circumventing the salary cap in order to keep your star players is a worse offense than anything the Patriots ever did. 

To the bolded, I completely agree. The cap violation was the worst of all given the competitive advantage gained. Spygate and Bountygate don't even compare.

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Jiggy Walk On

Jiggy

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, August 8, 2014 - personal shot
Hidden by Nadine, August 8, 2014 - personal shot

ROFL

NONE of you have explained how what the Patriots did have them an advantage.

Game.

Set.

Match.

Wow. Are you that dense or do you not want to admit Santa Clause isnt real?

 

They stole signals, video taped them, and had some genius dude in the back decipher and use them after half time. I know you dont know much about football, but in football you gain a big advantage by knowing what the team is going to do before the ball is snapped.

 

Game.

Set. 

Match.

 

NONE OF YOU have explained why the Genius BB did this for no reason at all. Please explain that? Oh you cant, choking on your diarrhea of the mouth too hard to answer that huh?

 

game

set

match

 

*

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

Posted
Posted · Hidden by Nadine, August 8, 2014 - quoted removed post
Hidden by Nadine, August 8, 2014 - quoted removed post

Wow. Are you that dense or do you not want to admit Santa Clause isnt real?

 

They stole signals, video taped them, and had some genius dude in the back decipher and use them after half time.

 

Game.

Set. 

Match.

 

NONE OF YOU have explained why the Genius BB did this for no reason at all. Please explain that? Oh you cant, choking on your diarrhea of the mouth too hard to answer that huh?

 

game

set

match

 

*

lol. It's like Bill's signal men were the CIA. I know you guys think Bill is a genius and all but this is just silly. The videos were never used in game which is why the Pats were taping in full view of everyone for years. And there isn't enough time at halftime to decipher signals given the game film is not available until after the game is over. Not to mention most teams change up their signals at half.

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Jiggy Walk On

Jiggy

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To the bolded, I completely agree. The cap violation was the worst of all given the competitive advantage gained. Spygate and Bountygate don't even compare.

spy gate was much worse

 

also the bottom quote is not rooted in fact, just what you hope to be true

 

lol. It's like Bill's signal men were the CIA. I know you guys think Bill is a genius and all but this is just silly. The videos were never used in game which is why the Pats were taping in full view of everyone for years. And there isn't enough time at halftime to decipher signals given the game film is not available until after the game is over. Not to mention most teams fchange up their signals at hal

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

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Bobbycovert

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I see how you still havent answered the question.

Personally I don't blame him for not responding.  Its ignorant at best to argue that the Patriots have somehow imploded post-spygate. Since then, they have had an undefeated regular season, two AFC Championships, and the highest winning percentage in the league.  They were a miracle catch by Tyree and a drop by Welker from winning two more Superbowls.  It is especially ridiculous hearing the "postseason" argument from Colts fans who rush to defend Peyton whenever someone mentions how often he craps the bed in the post season.

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ViriLudant

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seriously?? I am not going to word for word read, quote, and explain it to you. You know they had video tapes they were not allowed to have. it is a game of inches. I did not say that spygate made the pats dynasty years what they were. I am just saying that the only reason they filmed what they filmed was to gain an advantage. that is just common sense and an unarguable fact.

I would be saying the same thing if any of the other 30 teams did it. I would be embarrassed if the Colts did. Would I disown them? no, but i sure would admit to it

Wow.

You didn't even answer my question.

Guess that's because you know the real answer.

Just like Polian.

Just like Dungy.

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ViriLudant Walk On

ViriLudant

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Wow. Are you that dense or do you not want to admit Santa Clause isnt real?

They stole signals, video taped them, and had some genius dude in the back decipher and use them after half time. I know you dont know much about football, but in football you gain a big advantage by knowing what the team is going to do before the ball is snapped.

Game.

Set.

Match.

NONE OF YOU have explained why the Genius BB did this for no reason at all. Please explain that? Oh you cant, choking on your diarrhea of the mouth too hard to answer that huh?

game

set

match

*

Man, you guys truly have no idea what Soygate was about.

None of you apparently read Goodell's quote up above .

If you don't want to understand the facts, that's your own problem.

This has been very amusing, but if you refuse to use reason and understand what Goodell said, then it's simply because your hatred is blinding you.

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Coffeedrinker Practice Squad

Coffeedrinker

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lol. How would you decipher signals without the game film? And to boot you have 12 minutes.

They have film available immediately.  How to you think they get the screen prints down on the sideline as soon as a series is over?  The video that provides those prints are sync'd with the game time... That is why it was such a big deal when it showed the cameraman recording the signal and then recording the game clock.

 

There is no waiting until half time, there only comparing they had to do at halftime was the last series.

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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They have film available immediately.  How to you think they get the screen prints down on the sideline as soon as a series is over?  The video that provides those prints are sync'd with the game time... That is why it was such a big deal when it showed the cameraman recording the signal and then recording the game clock.

 

There is no waiting until half time, there only comparing they had to do at halftime was the last series.

Those are still photos not game film. You still have to get all the videos from the camera men - watch them and then try to sync up with the photos in just 12 minutes. There is no earthly possibility of getting much done beyond maybe one or two formations and even then teams change their signals at halftime. Charlie Weiss, the Pats OC who was with Notre Dame when spygate broke said the taping was done for R&D. It just made the process quicker to have the signals on tape vs someone writing them down from the stands which is how they used to do it.

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