Colts practice line up with 3WR's and 2 TE's and Empty Backfield!

[JPFolks]

Teams used corners and safeties on Fleener last year from time to time. That's why I want to see 12 personnel some of the time, because we can get a nickel look against 2TE sets, then run the ball. Of course, Fleener has to do his share as a run blocker, but if we're going against nickel, we should be asking a little less of him.

 

The possibilities are endless, really. I'm excited. Just hope everyone stays healthy.

 

Your last comment says it all Superman.  We couldn't do innovative sets last year because we really only had one serviceable TE once Allen went down plus losing Reggie made 3WR/2TE/Empty Backfield pointless to bother with.  But with ALL our weapons healthy, we can pull lots of stuff out that creates matchup nightmares for our opponents.  Seeing the injury bug hit Ballard already, health may be our biggest foe to overcome.  

[AntonMcG]

Actually, I made the statement much earlier on page 1... that was more of a summation to what I had said and defended over and over during the post.  Funny how many of the same folks were on that post as this one but I am getting way more support now that it has happened in practice.  Anton still won't give in though... no problem, it will be fun to see if it happens and then we can revisit as warrants. I think it wouls be impossible to defend, especially if we caught them off guard with it.

 

 

 

You're simply adding 2 new statements that have nothing to do with what I said.  I never said "we catch a defense off guard with this" or we did it once last year.   My only statement was that at some point in the season, we would run it.  Good argument tactic, but don't imply in a reply to me that I said or need to defend either statement.  

 

 

, yeah you did... that is exactly what you said. Are you just typing for the sake of typing or do you actually believe in any of the points you are making? So again, how do we catch a defense off guard with this?

 

I don't agree with you... why can't you accept that? It is not as if I bring no merit to my arguments... you can clearly see my insight in other  posts, some, probably many if they watch a lot of football, agree with me. This personnel limit us in my opinion and makes very little sense to me... how many times have you ever seen it, not just with the Colts? There is a reason for that.

 

It makes even less sense to me on the goal line... but hey, the tried it out, I doubt it ever makes it onto the field, you may think otherwise. If we did ever see this... it would be once or twice a year, though I question if we see it at all. 

 

This okay for you?

[JPFolks]

Okay Anton, you got me.  So please produce EXACTLY where I said "we did it last year" So.. are you just typing for the sake of typing or do you actually believe the points you are making? Please produce or go blow hard elsewhere.  As for what you said wouldn't happen, it already has.  I'll be waiting for you to hold yourself to the same standard you hold others okay? 

[OLD FAN MAN]

Folks, 

 

A few weeks back I was called out for my outrageous prediction that the Colts would use a set featuring 3 WR's, 2 TE's and an empty backfield.  Well, they are already practicing that very formation.  Sure, it doesn't prove they will use it in a game, but it also proves that my statement was not without merit nor as incredulous as some said it was. 

 

Here's a quote from ESPN: 

• The Colts showed their offensive versatility during a red-zone drill when they used a formation that featured receivers Reggie Wayne, T.Y. Hilton and Hakeem Nicks lined up out wide on one side and tight ends Dwayne Allen and Coby Fleener lined up out wide on the other side. With both Allen and Fleener standing 6-foot-3 and 6-foot-6, respectively, the Colts will have a height advantage to throw the ball up high to their tight ends against the smaller defensive backs. Luck tried that once on a play when Fleener was defended by safety Delano Howell. He ended up overthrowing Fleener, as the pass went out of bounds. Still, Luck didn’t have those types of options last season. “Coach told us never to compare seasons to seasons because you end up devaluing someone along the way,” Luck said. “So I’m not going to compare it to whatever I’ve played with in the past with some awesome, awesome dudes. But again, it takes a bunch of guys throughout a season and we know that. So the way the guys are playing now, it should be a lot of fun.”

So, it is not only possible, but something they are working on.  And we WILL see it in a game in one form or another.  Why not?  Who else can put that much receiving talent on the field at once?

tells me pep, may have a different look this year. sometimes

[AntonMcG]

Okay Anton, you got me.  So please produce EXACTLY where I said "we did it last year" So.. are you just typing for the sake of typing or do you actually believe the points you are making? Please produce or go blow hard elsewhere.  As for what you said wouldn't happen, it already has.  I'll be waiting for you to hold yourself to the same standard you hold others okay? 

 

 

Well yes, I did get you, you so adamantly claimed that you did not make that statement, when you clearly made it in your previous response to me... which makes me question just how much you understand what you are talking about, it is truly baffling. Do you believe we can catch teams off guard with this? If not, why write it? I suspect you will skim over this issue as it only hurts the credibility of your argument.

 

Next up... could you produce the evidence of when I claimed you said we ran it last year? I never made that point, I simply pointed out that we did not run at last year, because a few others claimed we had. Further to that, whilst I am sure it has happened on rare occasion, I have never seen any team run that formation, unless the had a very versatile TE who could play H-back and go into motion pre-snap... which Dwayne Allen provides us, and would give the concept some legitimacy, but only works in a no-huddle offense that lets the TE to line up in the backfield and run on occasion. Anyway, I digress... I did not say you said we ran it last year, I just pointed out that we did not and teams never run it league-wide. Thanks for your vein attempts at turning my argument, and indeed my phrasing, on its head... try to exercise some degree of originality.

 

I genuinely struggle to understand your issue with me disagreeing with you on this... I have provided legitimate reasons for my distaste for this formation and why I don't believe we would run it, I'll go through them again...

 

* Desperate chunk plays with empty backfield will almost certainly put out 4 WRs who open the field up more than over the middle TEs. And TEs ability to block basically becomes redundant because in such scenarios... you are sending everyone out.... so why wouldn't you have at least 4 WRs? Bare in mind... the Jimmy Grahams of the world are the exception at the TE position.

* The defense can make adjustments and substitutions pre-snap if the identify the lack of any potential running game, if limits the versatility of the offense.

* Yeah, they ran this on the goal line in practice... does that make sense to you? They tried it out, but I would be shocked if they ran this formation on the goal line in a real game. Surely if this formation was to have any legitimacy, it would be further back on the field.

* I am all for empty backfields from time to time, but only when the backs go into motion and split out wide, exposing mismatches an keeping linebackers on the field... good dime defenses will defend the 2 TE/3 WR formation pretty easily, they will have cover guys and rush guys, we are making their job much easier for them.

 

There are more points, but that is the main crux. You do not agree with me, which is fine. Maybe we run this formation, it would not be beyond possibility that we do once or twice, but I could never see it being any more than that, and I don't think we will see it at all.

 

If you cannot accept the fact that I do not agree with you then I question you capacity for reasonable debate.

[Gavin]

Great article by Matt Bowen, Easy to understand  for those that are into play breakdowns and such, Loved it

[JPFolks]

Oh, this just can't get any better!  (Well, once they do it in some games it will be I guess).  In it's final prediction/assessment for the Colts before the season starts, ESPN says the following: 

 

"

BEST-KEPT SECRET

As much as the Colts talk about having a running game, their best offensive set could be when they go with five wide. Receivers T.Y. Hilton, Wayne and Nicks lined up on one side with tight ends Allen and Coby Fleener, who stand 6-foot-3 and 6-6, respectively, lined up on the other side with an empty backfield. Offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton's creativity and Luck's intelligence are a nightmare for opposing coordinators. Allen and Fleener have the height to outleap defensive backs for the ball. Hilton and Nicks have the speed, and Wayne simply knows how to get open."

 

Of course it is not a secret really.  I predicted it and we all discussed it over and over.  I LOVE IT when a plan comes together and can't wait until they run this live, in season! 

 

Here's the link for any doubters: 

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/11377732/2014-nfl-season-preview-analysis-game-game-predictions-more-every-team

[OLD FAN MAN]

Oh, this just can't get any better!  (Well, once they do it in some games it will be I guess).  In it's final prediction/assessment for the Colts before the season starts, ESPN says the following: 

 

"

BEST-KEPT SECRET

As much as the Colts talk about having a running game, their best offensive set could be when they go with five wide. Receivers T.Y. Hilton, Wayne and Nicks lined up on one side with tight ends Allen and Coby Fleener, who stand 6-foot-3 and 6-6, respectively, lined up on the other side with an empty backfield. Offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton's creativity and Luck's intelligence are a nightmare for opposing coordinators. Allen and Fleener have the height to outleap defensive backs for the ball. Hilton and Nicks have the speed, and Wayne simply knows how to get open."

 

Of course it is not a secret really.  I predicted it and we all discussed it over and over.  I LOVE IT when a plan comes together and can't wait until they run this live, in season! 

 

Here's the link for any doubters: 

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/11377732/2014-nfl-season-preview-analysis-game-game-predictions-more-every-team

would be good if the line can give luck time to throw

[JPFolks]

By the way, I must qualify the last post I made with a caveat.  Back when I was promoting the idea that they would lineup this way this year, I was posting it both here and on the ESPN site.  I have had go-rounds with Mike Wells there and to his credit he has responded directly to me, though never on topic which he usually ignores.  And the ESPN story was written at least in part (and in his byline) by Mike Wells.  So either he saw my post there, or perhaps when they ran it in practice that was enough, but he is the one who I quoted.  I have always believed they would run this simply because it would give them such an overwhelming advantage.  His blurb above is very similar to what I was saying early over there.  I do admit, either way, I shudder to think we agree on something.  It hasn't and won't happen that often I am sure.  But he also predicts the same record as I do.  11-5.  And it will come down to the NE game as to whether Indy gets home field throughout the playoffs.  If they beat NE (even if they lose to Denver) I think they will end up with home field advantage at least as the #2 seed, but probably as the #1 with Denver's much tougher schedule.  If we can keep all the games in the playoffs at home, we might have a shot at upsetting what would be heavily favored NE and Denver teams likely to come through us for a Super Bowl berth.  

 

Should be interesting.  Especially when they line up with 3 WR's and 2 TE's!

[YOUR GM]

Bump  

 

 

 

To everyone who gave the OP a hard time, the Colts just used this formation against the Jaguars and Fleener scored a touchdown off of it 

[Superman]

   

 

 

 

Indeed.

[YOUR GM]

Indeed.

 

Lighten up. Sheesh

[Draztik]

Bump

Yes!

To everyone who gave the OP a hard time, the Colts just used this formation against the Jaguars and Fleener scored a touchdown off of it

[Superman]

Lighten up. Sheesh

 

I'm fine with the bump. Should I have added a smiley face? 

[YOUR GM]

I'm fine with the bump. Should I have added a smiley face? 

 

Ok, my bad. I just immediately thought of this thread when I saw the touchdown. Made me chuckle