Sam drafted by the Rams...

[nburgmei]

Not scared of them, but i don't want this type of lifestyle (yes, it's a choice) pushed down my throat and influencing my young children. Enough is enough already.

 

BTW: I played in the SEC.

"yes, it's a choice." 

 

I'd say you're oversimplifying this and ignoring the science, to a degree. There is a pretty clear consensus in the science community that the majority of homosexuals are a result of factors unrelated to psychology, especially in men. However, there are most certainly homosexuals by choice. It's likely a sort of spectrum. Gay by biology - bisexual - straight - gay by choice (also oversimplified). Why they would make that choice is beyond me, but they're free to do as they choose and I don't care either way. 

 

And to bring this back around to football, I never saw the M. Sam announcement. Was it a question or did he just come out and say it one day? I'd hope it wasn't a Lebron-style, "I'm taking my talents to the other team," type of event.

[peytonmanning18]

He mentioned the SEC...i played in the SEC. That's all. I found the rest of his remarks about jackie robinson and the color barrier offensive, because i'm bi-racial. The black community is highly offended by this comparision.

 

Why?  I would think a minority group who has been discriminated against for centuries would embrace another minority group who has been discriminated against for decades.

[peytonmanning18]

"yes, it's a choice." 

 

I'd say you're oversimplifying this and ignoring the science, to a degree. There is a pretty clear consensus in the science community that the majority of homosexuals are a result of factors unrelated to psychology, especially in men. However, there are most certainly homosexuals by choice. It's likely a sort of spectrum. Gay by biology - bisexual - straight - gay by choice (also oversimplified). Why they would make that choice is beyond me, but they're free to do as they choose and I don't care either way. 

 

And to bring this back around to football, I never saw the M. Sam announcement. Was it a question or did he just come out and say it one day? I'd hope it wasn't a Lebron-style, "I'm taking my talents to the other team," type of event.

 

Sam did a sit down interview with ESPN before the combine to come out.  Why that matters to you, I have no idea.  

[NFLfan]

He mentioned the SEC...i played in the SEC. That's all. I found the rest of his remarks about jackie robinson and the color barrier offensive, because i'm bi-racial. The black community is highly offended by this comparision.

I am not offended by that comparison at all. So, please speak for yourself and not for our whole race. It makes us all look ignorant. I don't want to be associated with that level of ignorance.

I wish Michael Sam a lot of success. He is one courageous young man!

[Burls' Kid's]

Why?  I would think a minority group who has been discriminated against for centuries would embrace another minority group who has been discriminated against for decades.

 

 

That's EXACTLY it! You don't get it! We're a true "minority group"! The gay community isn't!  This type of thing &^%$ us off.

[Burls' Kid's]

I am not offended by that comparison at all. So, please speak for yourself and not for our whole race. It makes us all look ignorant. I don't want to be associated with that level of ignorance.

I wish Michael Sam a lot of success. He is one courageous young man!

 

 

Then i stand corrected. Yes, i speak for myself...my family( and faith)...not my race. Both of our opinions are equal my brother.

[peytonmanning18]

That's EXACTLY it! You don't get it! We're a true "minority group"! The gay community isn't!  This type of thing &^%$ us off.

 

How are gays not a minority?  To my knowledge there are not more homosexuals in the world than heterosexuals.  In several countries around the world, gays are killed for being gay, not much different than how blacks were killed for being black in the United States in the past.

[Burls' Kid's]

How are gays not a minority?  To my knowledge there are not more homosexuals in the world than heterosexuals.  In several countries around the world, gays are killed for being gay, not much different than how blacks were killed for being black in the United States in the past.

 

 

Me being a black man isn't a choice (true minority) and gays being gay (life choice) are not. PRETTY SIMPLE, right?

[peytonmanning18]

Me being a black man isn't a choice (true minority) and gays being gay (life choice) are not. PRETTY SIMPLE, right?

 

You never answered my question from before.  When did you chose to be straight? Are you saying that you are equally attracted to men and women but because you want to do the right thing you only chose to act on your attraction to women?

[Burls' Kid's]

ALso, you guys need to understand something about folks from the south. We have our differences, but southern folk stick together,...both white and black. You find it hard to believe that a black man could be a big fan of Brandon Burlsworth. Why? He attended the same church as my family...that's WHY. You guys don't know nothin', so keep your mouth shut.

[Burls' Kid's]

You never answered my question from before.  When did you chose to be straight? Are you saying that you are equally attracted to men and women but because you want to do the right thing you only chose to act on your attraction to women?

 

 

I have no way of replying to that, without offending, so GOD BLESS YOU.

[peytonmanning18]

I have no way of replying to that, without offending, so GOD BLESS YOU.

 

Well you're the one that said being gay is a choice, so clearly being straight is also a choice.  I think it is a logical question to ask when you decided to be straight?

[nburgmei]

Sam did a sit down interview with ESPN before the combine to come out.  Why that matters to you, I have no idea.  

Pure curiosity. I wondered if it was just a casual interview that went in that direction or if was solely an interview to announce his sexual orientation. Which seems strange to me if you truly do want to keep things normal.

[peytonmanning18]

Pure curiosity. I wondered if it was just a casual interview that went in that direction or if was solely an interview to announce his sexual orientation. Which seems strange to me if you truly do want to keep things normal.

 

Is normal having to pretend like you're not gay when you are?

[CardiacColts]

Me being a black man isn't a choice (true minority) and gays being gay (life choice) are not. PRETTY SIMPLE, right?

This line of thinking leads to bad things (see history). The oppression of any group of people is bad for every group of people. However you want to look at it, pay it back or pay it forward... Just do the right thing.

[Burls' Kid's]

This line of thinking leads to bad things (see history). The oppression of any group of people is bad for every group of people. However you want to look at it, pay it back or pay it forward... Just do the right thing.

 

 

 

I live my life by doing the right thing. That's how us southern folk roll.

[nburgmei]

Is normal having to pretend like you're not gay when you are?

No...and I honestly went to edit the word normal and hit a few wrong buttons and didn't.

 

It seems strange to preemptively announce to everyone your sexual orientation without being asked. It does not seem at all strange to me to answer the question honestly if someone asks. It also wouldn't seem strange to me if the first we'd heard about it was the video of him hugging his boyfriend after his draft.

 

Maybe getting ahead of it was a potential strategy to bypass all of the rumor-mongering and paparazzi nonsense. Either way, I don't particularly care. At this point my biggest hopes are that: A) his teammates treat him like a teammate and are respectful, B) he does the same, C) he has a nice career, and D) the media are capable of actually discussing his football talents at some point and not just that he happens to be gay. I'd think he probably wants the same things.

[NFLfan]

If something your children see on TV has more of an influence on them than their own father, their problems will run a lot deeper than being homophobic.

I could not agree with you more on all your posts. Please post more often.

[Burls' Kid's]

I could not agree with you more on all your posts. Please post more often.

 

 

You don't strike me as a black man,but a progressive white liberal. Please forgive me, if i'm wrong.

[NFLfan]

I live my life by doing the right thing. That's how us southern folk roll.

Who determines what's "right"? I know what you will say, as you have already mentioned it many times here. However, when someone goes as far as you go to condemn an individual for his actions, it leads me to question whether you do follow the principles that is preached. (I am trying my best here not to mention "religion", as I don't want the mods to lock this thread.)

A respectful exchange of points of view is always good. I appreciate your being honest.

By the way, regarding the "minority" issue, I think PeytonManning18 meant that being a member of a group that has been oppressed in the past should give you more compassion for another oppressed group. I agree with him. Unfortunately I find that is not always the case.

[Dustin]

I feel no need to justify myself or even reply to that. He mentioned the SEC and that happened to have special meaning to me. I never said i was a good guard. I was never drafted, but i was an U.D.F.A., that did land on an NFL team's P.S. for a year...after that i was done, due to alcoholism (which happens to be another personal topic for myself) .

No you weren't.

[Burls' Kid's]

Who determines what's "right"? I know what you will say, as you have already mentioned it many times here. However, when someone goes as far as you go to condemn an individual for his actions, it leads me to question whether you do follow the principles that is preached. (I am trying my best here not to mention "religion", as I don't want the mods to lock this thread.)

A respectful exchange of points of view is always good. I appreciate your being honest.

By the way, regarding the "minority" issue, I think PeytonManning18 meant that being a member of a group that has been oppressed in the past should give you more compassion for another oppressed group. I agree with him. Unfortunately I find that is not always the case.

 

 

This is a touching subject matter...for us all (both white and black) . I disagree, with ya' all and that's cool with me. I think different opinions are a good thing. I encourage this, especially in our P.C. society. There's room enough for us all!

[Burls' Kid's]

No you weren't.

 

 

I'm done with you.

[Burls' Kid's]

No you weren't.

 

 

I have nothing else to say to you.

[NFLfan]

You don't strike me as a black man,but a progressive white liberal. Please forgive me, if i'm wrong.

I am indeed black. One does not have to be liberal to show compassion. I have had exposure to all kinds of people and that has helped me to be open-minded. Words like "progressive" & "liberal" are used to demean people. I won't engage in that kind of talk.

[GwinnettColt]

Well you're the one that said being gay is a choice, so clearly being straight is also a choice.  I think it is a logical question to ask when you decided to be straight?

 

Simpler than you're making it.  You choose your conduct.  

 

Finish these statements rhetorically:  a) the primal biological purpose for sex is....    b) that said, to procreate, you need a _________ and a ___________.  (Get your minds out of the gutter ;)  I'm referring to genders).  c) most likely, sex is pleasurable because it encourages ______________, a natural instinct employed to sustain a species.  

 

Don't expect people to disregard biology to make 4% of the population to feel comfortable about sexual choices that they should be embarrassed about.  That said, no one deserves persecution.   However to expect people to see homosexual and heterosexual relationships as the same isn't realistic.  It isn't the same due to the biological concepts.  Sorry, but a reality.  

 

Back to NFL football:

As for the Rams drafting Michael Sams, I don't call it courage in the least bit.  It could be one of two things:  1) he wanted applause from the media-which he had lavished on him for the pick 2) they liked the way he plays and he fit their needs.  

[Burls' Kid's]

I am indeed black. One does not have to be liberal to show compassion. I have had exposure to all kinds of people and that has helped me to be open-minded. Words like "progressive" & "liberal" are used to demean people. I won't engage in that kind of talk.

 

 

 

Then i'm done with this, and i hope SAM can come through and put forth an excellent effort...and prove himself. I have my doubts, but good luck...MR. SAM!

[pacolts56]

Who determines what's "right"? I know what you will say, as you have already mentioned it many times here. However, when someone goes as far as you go to condemn an individual for his actions, it leads me to question whether you do follow the principles that is preached. (I am trying my best here not to mention "religion", as I don't want the mods to lock this thread.)

A respectful exchange of points of view is always good. I appreciate your being honest.

By the way, regarding the "minority" issue, I think PeytonManning18 meant that being a member of a group that has been oppressed in the past should give you more compassion for another oppressed group. I agree with him. Unfortunately I find that is not always the case.

And I would ask the MODS to now consider adding the discussion of sexual/gender lifestyle, along with politics and religion....to the list of topics prohibited on the Forum.

 

For the record, I unashamedly hold the Biblical view on the issue of homosexuality....but the public section of a forum intended for football discussion is neither the place for arguments in favor of that viewpoint or its opposite, unless the MODS would like to allow for ALL of these topics (politics, religion etc.)....which I highly doubt and frankly think is a bad idea....assuming we ARE here to talk football.

 

But if the topic of Michael Sam's or any other NFL player's homosexual lifestyle....a lifestyle counter to the spiritual beliefs of some Forum members.....is to continue, than fairness dictates that the underpinning of those spiritual beliefs are allowed to be freely and fully brought up and included in the discussion.

 

So with all due respect, MODS....are we far enough into the weeds now to lock this thread and cancel sexual "lifestyle" debates as an approved topic of discussion?

[Blackhawk4]

Pretty disappointed that this thread went down this way. Was hoping this thread wouldn't be derailed. 

 

 

Hopefully after cleaning this up a bit this thread might be able to continue, but for now