Trade up for safety?

[TKnight24]

I actually wanna trade back. Deep draft, I want us to have 8-10 picks & draft like this

Safeties- 2 (Make Howell & Brown earn it)

CB's- 2 (Insurance for Toler)

Pass Rush (OLB or DLine)- 2-3 & one of the picks being Michael Sam. Indy is the perfect place for him during his revealing. He won't be judged here or harassed or anything. Family environment here & I love that about the Colts

Offensive line - 2 (Preferably C to compete with Holmes)

[evilleseniorfan]

I think the "Best Available Talent" when we draft will be interior OL or OT's that can move inside.  Safety's and other needed "pieces" will have to come through free agency cuts during the pre-season, or luck.

[BLUEx40]

The only safety (and player) I'd trade up for is Jimmie Ward but that's only if he falls to the second round. If Grigs likes another safety where we don't need to trade up I'm all for it.

ive actually have seen a couple mock drafts where he was mocked to us that would be awesome also wouldn't mind trading up if he falls to the second round but I think trading up into the first is silly

[BLUEx40]

I actually wanna trade back. Deep draft, I want us to have 8-10 picks & draft like this

Safeties- 2 (Make Howell & Brown earn it)

CB's- 2 (Insurance for Toler)

Pass Rush (OLB or DLine)- 2-3 & one of the picks being Michael Sam. Indy is the perfect place for him during his revealing. He won't be judged here or harassed or anything. Family environment here & I love that about the Colts

Offensive line - 2 (Preferably C to compete with Holmes)

they have Thomas Austin don't think they will draft one probably bring in a undrafted rookie

[esmort]

I'm afraid I'm stuck with this one!

 

It's taken some people here two years to get used to me....    I'd hate to see how long it would take if I had a new name and they had to deal with that guy!    (lol!)

 

You could always go with "NCF"; a lot of people use just your initials when they refer to you/your posts already anyway.

[TKnight24]

You could always go with "NCF"; a lot of people use just your initials when they refer to you/your posts already anyway.

Cause typing out some people's name is just too much

Like mine, people just say TK or TK24

Only ones who's names get spelled out is members like

Gramz

BrentMc

JayKirk

Krunk

Superman

And then Nadine

Everyone spells Nadine's name out cause she's the boss & she's feared around these parts

[esmort]

Cause typing out some people's name is just too much

Like mine, people just say TK or TK24

Only ones who's names get spelled out is members like

Gramz

BrentMc

JayKirk

Krunk

Superman

And then Nadine

Everyone spells Nadine's name out cause she's the boss & she's feared around these parts

 

That's kinda my point, so many people already know who "NCF" is that he could easily change his name to just the initials without causing much confusion.

[NewColtsFan]

I have dowling as my top rated safety in this draft. He's elite (well the potential is there) .

 

OK.....   sorry it's taken me so long to reply on Dowling....   way too much on my to-do list today...

 

But here we go....  

 

Is the guy talented?    Yes.     He originally went to Florida when Urban Myer was there.    And he got himself kicked off the team!   He wouldn't go to class,  but worse,  he was too much for the coaches to handle.   Big Red Flag.    It's hard to get kicked off an SEC team if you've got talent and Dowling had talent.    But the kid has major red flags everywhere. 

 

Here's the Scout.com profile....   read that and I'll hi-lite the things you don't want to overlook....  then read on because you'll be surprised at how similar the profile from NFL.com is....  and those are different people working for a different company coming to the same conclusion!     From ESPN...

 

Overall Football Traits

 

Production 3   2010: (2/0) N/A *Florida 2011: Redshirted 2012: (12/11) 68-7-62013: (12/12) 67-7-3 WKU Career: 3.5TFL, 8FF, 1FR

 

Height-Weight-Speed 2   Tall but lean and needs to get stronger. Has room on frame to add bulk. Above average top-end speed and 10-yad split (1.57). Long arms (33 1/8') and adequate hand size (9 1/4').

 

Durability 2   Durable college player but frame raises red flag for long-term durability.

 

Intangibles 5   Major concerns about maturity, inflated ego and ability to handle authority. Florida dismissed him from team for violating a team rule in 2010. Missed practices at Florida. Transferred to Western Kentucky in 2011 and sat out in accordance with NCAA rules. Sun Belt Conference suspended Dowling for Arkansas State game following ejection from Southern Mississippi for a helmet to helmet hit in 2012.  Never stops jawing on tape and affects focus/attention to detail.  It's all about him on field.  Inflated sense of ability.

 

1 = Exceptional 2 = Above average 3 = Average 4 = Below average 5 = Marginal

 

Safety Specific Traits

 

Instincts/Recognition  4   Natural nose for the football. But lacks eye discipline and takes too many false steps. Inconsistent angles. Has glaring assignment breakdowns on tape.

 

Cover Skills  2   Is tall with long arms. Smooth moving athlete with good fluidity for height. Long strider with good top-end speed. Covers a lot of ground when pointed in right direction. Good closing burst to the ball/receiver. But technique needs lots of polishing. Terrible footwork. Very inconsistent with pad level during pedal. Inefficient with movement.

 

Ball Skills  1   Excellent production (9 INTs, 8 FFs in two seasons at WKU). Natural ball skills and above average body control. Soft hands and confident attacking ball. Long arms to contest when in zip code. Also very good height and leaping ability, so he's effective contending for ball with taller WRs and TEs. Run

 

Support  4  Fills hard and can delivery good shoulder blow when he times it out correctly. But overall he's too inefficient and unreliable in run support. Plays out of control. Freelancing shoulder-first hitter that frequently fails to finish. Misses as many open-field tackles as he makes. Lacks bulk and strength. Easily pushed around in the box. Struggles to get off blocks (just eight bench press reps at Combine). Fake tough guy.

 

1 = Exceptional 2 = Above average 3 = Average 4 = Below average 5 = Marginal

 

And here's the profile from NFL.com....    again I'll put the important passage in bold...

 

 

Analysis

 

Strengths   Has a rangy frame with room for added bulk. Excellent height and long arms to contend in the air and play the pocket. Good hands to snatch interceptions. Nice linear fluidity. Covers ground with long strides -- rangy off the hash to get over the top. Flashes striking ability when his shoulder blows connect. Playmaking ability -- 9 INTs and 8 FFs in last two seasons. Has special-teams experience covering kicks.

 

Weaknesses    High-cut and lanky for a safety -- durability could be an issue and he needs to add body armor. Gets bullied in the box.  Average eyes and instincts.  Takes some inaccurate angles.  Shoddy tackler with poor fundamentals -- hits too high, ankle-bites low or launches himself and whiffs.  Talks too much and shows off-putting body language.  Questionable mental toughness.  Thinks hes better than he is.  Character, maturity and coachability should be looked into.

 

Draft Projection Rounds 4-5

 

Bottom Line Lean, long-levered, smooth-muscled, finesse free safety with speed and range, though he's more interested in hitting than securing tackles.  He does not provide dependability desired on the back end.

 

Oh....   a late edit....  here is the part of the profile from CBS Sports....

 

 

Loose cannon with his play and demeanor.  Strong character concerns after being kicked off the team at Florida for a violation of unspecified rules   Immature, entitled attitude with multiple run-ins with coaches.

[NewColtsFan]

Follow-up.....

 

Dowling can play.   His problems on the field can probably be coached out of him.

 

The problem is his maturity, or lack of it,  his lack of character,  his lack of discipline,  his lack of understanding team play are all major red flags for any team.     But for a team like the Colts who rely heavily on those core principles,  I think it makes him one of the least desirable players out there.

 

I like players who are team captains.   Leaders by what they do and what they say.   Guys who play with their hair on fire.   Guys for whom football is important.    Guys who will stay out of trouble off the field.   Guys who will be good in the community.   Guys who realize playing in the NFL is something you earn, not a gift that someone gives to you.  Guys who accept coaching.   Guys who want to get better.    I don't think Dowling is any of those things.

 

I wish it wasn't the case.....   but he's not the type of player that the Colts want to draft....   I think there is no one on the team whose profile is as bad.   Rogers wasn't this bad.   Neither was Hughes.   And Rogers was a free agent, with minimum investment.    Dowling is going to cost a draft pick.     I'd pass on him and not lose a moments sleep over him.

[Chucklez]

I don't think we should mortgage any of our future or current draft picks.

Grigson needs to show the talent mining skills he did in his first draft with us and find serious value from the picks we have. He cannot afford a bust this year, if he can provide some decent starters / solid backups at safety and on the O-line, I'll be happy.

[TKnight24]

I don't think we should mortgage any of our future or current draft picks.

Grigson needs to show the talent mining skills he did in his first draft with us and find serious value from the picks we have. He cannot afford a bust this year, if he can provide some decent starters / solid backups at safety and on the O-line, I'll be happy.

It's easy to look at the first drafr of Grigson & say it's the best. I mean, we're picking in the top of every round. It's easy to find talent when you're picking there

Now Grigson must find talent when drafting at the backend of the draft

[Chucklez]

It's easy to look at the first drafr of Grigson & say it's the best. I mean, we're picking in the top of every round. It's easy to find talent when you're picking there

Now Grigson must find talent when drafting at the backend of the draft

 

Whether you are picking first in the 4th round with the 97th pick or last in the 3rd with the 96th pick.... It makes no difference, you still pick 96th and 97th in that order.... so that means nothing...

 

 

The "backend" of Grigsons 2012 draft is also as follows: 

 

Pick 92 - TY Hilton                         - Nuff said

Pick 136 - Josh Chapman              - Chapman is good depth and a solid backup at the least.

Pick 170 - Vick Ballard                   - Ballard had a great first season then got injured, expected to come back strong.

Pick 206 - Lavon Brazill                 - Lavon Brazill contributed when called upon and has provided depth to our WR corps as a solid backup.

Pick 253 - Chandler Harnish          - Chandler Harnish will probably garner some trade value down the line like Drew Stanton did.

 

Yeah, Grigson had a good year in that draft... Lets not forget the first 3 picks were Luck, Fleener and Dwayne Allen, all locked in starters and it's always possible to draft busts in the first rounds.

 

Do not sell Grigson short for that first draft!

[TKnight24]

Whether you are picking first in the 4th round with the 97th pick or last in the 3rd with the 96th pick.... It makes no difference, you still pick 96th and 97th in that order.... so that means nothing...

The "backend" of Grigsons 2012 draft is also as follows:

Pick 92 - TY Hilton - Nuff said

Pick 136 - Josh Chapman - Chapman is good depth and a solid backup at the least.

Pick 170 - Vick Ballard - Ballard had a great first season then got injured, expected to come back strong.

Pick 206 - Lavon Brazill - Lavon Brazill contributed when called upon and has provided depth to our WR corps as a solid backup.

Pick 253 - Chandler Harnish - Chandler Harnish will probably garner some trade value down the line like Drew Stanton did.

Yeah, Grigson had a good year in that draft... Lets not forget the first 3 picks were Luck, Fleener and Dwayne Allen, all locked in starters and it's always possible to draft busts in the first rounds.

Do not sell Grigson short for that first draft!

Not selling him short at all, just tired of seeing people bash Grigson on here for the draft last year. Just cause we didn't get starters like the first one, it was a bad draft in people's eyes.

If you look at it, last year was a project/depth draft. We had pieces but due to injury ridiculousness, our projects became contributors before they were planned to

Prime examples are Adongo & McNary

[Chucklez]

Not selling him short at all, just tired of seeing people bash Grigson on here for the draft last year. Just cause we didn't get starters like the first one, it was a bad draft in people's eyes.

If you look at it, last year was a project/depth draft. We had pieces but due to injury ridiculousness, our projects became contributors before they were planned to

Prime examples are Adongo & McNary

 

I'll grant you McNary was pulled into the lineup too soon out of necessity but Adongo wasn't there out of necessity (nor was he drafted)... Adongo only really played on special teams anyways, it's my understanding they want him to learn from Mathis whilst he still can and hopefully become an unexpected x factor in the coming years.

 

Also I didn't mean to come across as saying that last years draft was a total bust in general. I just meant that we seriously need to have the kind of draft we did in our first year under his regime due to our limited picks. Each pick's importance essentially counts for double this year. Gotta make some knockout value picks!

[In Luck We Trust]

I would trade our 2nd rounder this year with a 4th rounder next year for a early 20's to end of first round pick. other then that Clinton Dix will be gone by the 17th pick. so i hope we keep our picks and go from there. like some have said, we have drafted some pro bowlers late in the draft that were on defense. I think bethea had a bad year and wish we would have brought him back for at least a year and then draft a late round safety and slowly work him into playing, but wishes dont always come true. 

[12isthenew18]

To get dix we have to trade before the 14th pick. The cost is next year 1st and our this year 2nd and 5th. To get pryor we gotta go before the cardinals the 20th pick. Which is our next first and second round pick. To get ward we have to trade up before the 34th pick of redskins. We have to trade our first round pick of next year. 

[NewColtsFan]

I would trade our 2nd rounder this year with a 4th rounder next year for a early 20's to end of first round pick. other then that Clinton Dix will be gone by the 17th pick. so i hope we keep our picks and go from there. like some have said, we have drafted some pro bowlers late in the draft that were on defense. I think bethea had a bad year and wish we would have brought him back for at least a year and then draft a late round safety and slowly work him into playing, but wishes dont always come true. 

 

Our 2 this year plus a 4 next year (which has the value of a 5 this year) would move us a couple of spaces.     You're looking to move 27-32 spaces.  

 

That would cost a fortune.    Our 2 and 3 this year.    Our 1 and maybe more next year.

 

Still interested?