Do We Have The Proper Players To Play 3-4 Defense?

[Captain Americolt]

I am not here to rant about how horrible the defense is. We all have eyes and can see for ourselves. This is just for fun and curiosity. It may seem like we have not even one proper player for a 3-4 defense, but I think we could find a way(if we ever decide too)

Heres my view of how things could go.

OLB- Philip Wheeler (considered one of the nations best blitzing linebacker when coming out of college)

ILB- Pat Angerer

ILB- Maybe we draft vontaze burfict or manti te'o

OLB- Jerry Hughes (He's small for a DE. His speed and pass rush ablilties could make him a great rush olb)

DE- Dwight Freeney (and i'll explain why later)

NT- Drake Nevis (Also ill explain why later..)

DE- Robert Mathis

For Freeney people would think he's too small for a 3-4 DE and that he'll probably be double teamed. That would leave Nevis and Mathis one-on-one. You don't always have to be a 350+ pound monster to be considered a good NT (just look at Jay Ratliff). Nevis should most likely win his one-on-one matchup and provide constant pressure on the QB (along with Mathis who should also win his matchup). By the time teams realize it, Nevis and Mathis will be all over the QB along with wheeler and hughes when we send out blitz packages. Teams would have to decide whether to double team freeney, nevis, or Mathis.

This is all also based on pure speculation we will draft a CB who can become an immediate starter and upgrade for our secondary to play opposite of powers.

Anything but the tampa-2 would be great. I'm also not saying the 3-4 is the answer. I just think this is an interesting topic considering our defensive play this season.

[GoGoColts]

For the love of God, can we stop talking about changing to a 3-4? We need a sticky about the infeasibility of the endeavor along with the misconceptions associated with having a 3-4 versus a 4-3.

[ruksak]

For the love of God, can we stop talking about changing to a 3-4? We need a sticky about the infeasibility of the endeavor along with the misconceptions associated with having a 3-4 versus a 4-3.

"This is just for fun and curiosity".

[Andy]

I think we have the right linebacking core to play 3-4, but the defensive line is not right. None of our DTs are big enough or dominant enough to play it, and Freeney/Mathis have never played in a 3-4, but it shouldn't be a huge change. I was opposed to Hughes playing OLB, but seeing Mario Williams make a nice transition, I thought that maybe he would be good there. It's a very interesting idea, but I don't Larry Coyer would make the swtich

[GwinnettColt]

I like the way the Ravens run a 3-4. They have huge DT's and DE's. If I remember correctly, the linebacking corps is about the same size as Indy's.

I'd like to see a workable 4-3 like Tennessee ran for so many years.

[Captain Americolt]

For the love of God, can we stop talking about changing to a 3-4? We need a sticky about the infeasibility of the endeavor along with the misconceptions associated with having a 3-4 versus a 4-3.

Honestly did you even read it? I put some things in BOLD just for people like you.

[GoGoColts]

Honestly did you even read it? I put some things in BOLD just for people like you.

Again I say, "For the love of God, can we stop talking about changing to a 3-4? We need a sticky about the infeasibility of the endeavor along with the misconceptions associated with having a 3-4 versus a 4-3."

[Captain Americolt]

When did I say we "need" to change to a 3-4? Read it again.... This time look for the stuff in bold....

[jbaron04]

bin saying it

3-4

de- nevis

nt- draft

de- moala

rolb- freeney

will- wheeler or conner

ilb- angerer

lolb- hughes and trade mathis for picks or keep him in 4-3 hybrids

ss- lefeged

fs- bethea

cb- powers

cb- thomas

cb- rucker

with power in the nickel on three wideout plays 5'10"

and thomas 6'0" and rucker 6'1" on the out sides

that looks ok on paper if we had a guy like rob ryan or bill cower, bill parcels.. etc to teach it even romeo .c

Edited October 29, 2011 by jbaron04

[Captain Americolt]

A fool? Nevis never played DE. Moala was atrocious at DE in college. Freeney will NOT play rolb. We're not going to trade mathis. Rucker is solid depth but no starter. Same as thomas. The whole thing looks like a toddler wrote it on paper.....

[BobbyMorris94]

We could pick-up Pat Williams and him and Johnson could be our nose tackles. We could have a line-up of Nevis/Williams/Anderson up front spelled by Brayton/Johnson/Matthews with Freeney at ROLB rushing 90 percent of the time. Conner and Angerer could play inside and Hughes could play LOLB blitzing about 60 percent of downs. Wheeler could spell either of the rush ends, and we would need a couple of physical corners on the outside who can effectively jam guys at the line (I'm thinking a Ty Law lite could do well).Safety we could field Lefeged and Bethea with Caldwell adding depth. We could rotate Angerer or Conner on obvious passing downs for a decent nickelback like Powers.

So all we really need is a true NFL starting NT, and two physical corners that can jam the outside, and we could be set. That's three players. It's possible we could and should make this switch this year while the season is toast. In the modern NFL, the 3-4 is more capable of stopping the record setting passing that is going on. This is just my opinion. Obviously we still have Mathis so we could put him at LOLB, if he would be willing.

[BobbyMorris94]

A fool? Nevis never played DE. Moala was atrocious at DE in college. Freeney will NOT play rolb. We're not going to trade mathis. Rucker is solid depth but no starter. Same as thomas. The whole thing looks like a toddler wrote it on paper.....

Just because Nevis never played DE doesn't mean he couldn't in a 3-4. No one really knows. This is all just hypothetical opinions.

Edited October 29, 2011 by BobbyMorris94

[jbaron04]

A fool? Nevis never played DE. Moala was atrocious at DE in college. Freeney will NOT play rolb. We're not going to trade mathis. Rucker is solid depth but no starter. Same as thomas. The whole thing looks like a toddler wrote it on paper.....

first off i know we wouldnt do it, it was an idea and i never said rucker was a starter and thomas played one game against the saints give him a chance

also we all our just fooling around with the idea and our current roster also if i remember right was moala the anchor to usc leading to ray malauga, clay mathews, and brain cushing

so get your facts right and also\

3-4 de our normal 290 pound guys like undersize dt nevis is at 300 ,294 all the have to do is hold there assignment get your fact right and dont kill people for just joking were 0-7 not to much to talk bout these days

[jbaron04]

Just because Nevis never played DE doesn't mean he couldn't in a 3-4. No one really knows. This is all just hypothetical opinions.

thank you some one with some sense thats all i was saying

[Captain Americolt]

Sorry. Still no reason to call me a fool bro. Like you said were 0-7 nothing to talk about...

[jbaron04]

Sorry. Still no reason to call me a fool bro. Like you said were 0-7 nothing to talk about...

iight i like your thread man just poking fun 0-7 does this to u

[Captain Americolt]

.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Caladdai

[Captain Americolt]

Nothing against you, but it doesn't hurt to add a bit of punctuation.

[jbaron04]

i would really like to see a creative d coach here to put in alot of looks on defense i mean

pats run 3-4 and 4-3 alot of teams have alot of looks

[HGRekks]

Nevis is a 3-4 NT if he's in a 3-4. He doesn't have the length to play the outside, they there have been similar size DEs. I think he's got the strength and quickness to have some success at NT in the 3-4. There has been a new breed of 3-4 NTs for sometime. Jay Ratliff, Shaun Cody, Barry Cofield, and Kelly Gregg are all starters and decent ones at that. In fact, if Nevis is like any player, it's a more athletic Kelly Gregg. It took Gregg sometime to get to 320, and I think Nevis would likely look to play closer to 310. But the NT needs to be either big enough to demand two blockers or quick enough to get under the center and disrupt plays before they develop. I think he has the strength and leverage to hold up against the double team with a bit more size. Regardless of scheme, you typically want anyone playing the 5 tech to have a bit more length. My biggest issue with Nevis playing in the 3-4, however, is that I don't know that he's ever had two gap responsibility. It's a big change for a guy who has made most of his impact by shooting gaps. Anderson is the only guy I think that looks almost custom built for the 3-4. Brayton does, but he's failed there before. Moala might be, as he was solid enough there in college. 3-4 linemen are typically thankless fellas, so I think it's an injustice to say he sucked there. Alot of 3-4 DL are responsible for filling up the gaps and keeping the linebackers nose clean, and I'm not sure the Colts have the guys to do that right now.

[Blackhawk4]

....Mathis as a 3-4 DE....sorry, but that's like putting Freeney at safety. Mathis would be a 3-4 rush OLB easily. As a 3-4 end mathis would get swallowed up easily and be ineffective. Freeney is a reach at 3-4 DE by a mile, because of his dimensions. Like Mathis, he would be suited alot better at OLB and be much more effective there. Brackett or Connor would be the other ILB. Hughes and Wheeler would be the backup OLBs. Antonio Johnson would be a better option starting at NT, but Nevis could make a good backup and a nice rotation at NT. Jamaal Anderson, Fili Moala and Tyler Brayton would make good 3-4 DEs. They have the size/length and are pretty good at stopping the run.

[chad72]

I started a thread about this earlier in the NFL draft section:

http://forums.colts....ild-in-2-years/

I concur with Blackhawk4 above:

OLBs: Mathis & Freeney with Hughes & Wheeler the backup OLBs

DEs: Moala, Anderson for now, Brayton as backup, draft one more DE

NT: Nevis as pass down NT like a Jay Ratliff and AJ can be in the rotation too, draft one big NT

ILB: We really have no one there, everyone we have is a bit too small for the ILB position, IMO, Conner can be back up ILB, maybe, draft one ILB

CB: Need two man corners drafted

Safeties: We have the speedy safeties we need, IMO

So, technically, we need about 5 players drafted with the NT and ILB being the most important, then the 2 man corners and DE to move our 4-3 to a 3-4. Wade Philips just showed with the Texans that with the right coach and the right players drafted, you can transition much faster. It may require us to play free agency more to move to a 3-4 for a few spots. It took the Packers 2 years, it took the Texans 1 year, it is not as tough as people make it to be. Having said that, just by hiring a different 4-3 DC like a Steve Spags, our D would get several notches better since most of the personnel is in place and if we draft an NT and a couple of man corners, our D can get to a much better level with the 4-3.

Edited October 30, 2011 by chad72

[Andy]

I should add that it's better to add to our 4-3, then to chnage to a 3-4 and make a lot of changes. The Texans had everything in place, so it was easy for them.

[Malakai432]

Again I say, "For the love of God, can we stop talking about changing to a 3-4? We need a sticky about the infeasibility of the endeavor along with the misconceptions associated with having a 3-4 versus a 4-3."

Again I say, "For the Love of God, can we START talking about changing to a 3-4? We DO need a sticky about the FEASIBILITY of the endeavor along with the POSITIVE FACTS associated with having a 3-4 versus a 4-3."

There we go all better. 

[Smitto]

I think the colts do have the players for a 3-4.. put brayton and anderson as DE's... take out Pat put Wheeler at Mike and freeney as a LB... but then again that will never happen... but you are free to try it on madden lol

[GoGoColts]

Again I say, "For the Love of God, can we START talking about changing to a 3-4? We DO need a sticky about the FEASIBILITY of the endeavor along with the POSITIVE FACTS associated with having a 3-4 versus a 4-3."

There we go all better. 

As soon as a team puts 3 WR's on the field 3-4 teams switch to 4-3. So, then you are just playing 4-3 with a "move-around" pass rusher or two. If a 3-4 is better than our 4-3 it's due to the difference in talent rather than the scheme. If the Colts committed to spending draft picks on better, more versatile defensive talent, the defense would be as good as any 3-4.

Edited October 30, 2011 by GoGoColts

[Captain Americolt]

I did want to put mathis at olb but i wanted hughes to be a starter . Just being picky. Though i do still think freeney would still be ok at DE

[shaunzo]

It may seem like we have not even one proper player for a 3-4 defense

It doesn't seem like we have one proper player for an NFL defense, let alone a 3-4.

[Blackhawk4]

I did want to put mathis at olb but i wanted hughes to be a starter . Just being picky. Though i do still think freeney would still be ok at DE

He doesn't have the build of a DE. He wouldn't be in the best situation to rush the passer. He can drop weight and be a stand up OLB, but he's just flat out doesn't have the build to be a 3-4 DE. Angerer and Connor would make good ILBs. They don't have to be 260 ILBS, there are effective ILBS that are the same size as Angerer and Connor/

Edited October 30, 2011 by Blackhawk4

[GoColts8818]

Till we get a giant and I mean giant DT we can stop thinking about a 3-4 defense. The guys we have are small or average size at best for a 4-3 defense let alone a 3-4.