PFF grades vs Jags

[dudeski]

Don't tell his agent that.

his agent doesn't care about his pff rating

[Superman]

his agent doesn't care about his pff rating

 

At least a third of the teams in the league make use of PFF ratings. If any of them are in the market for a cornerback, I'm certain his agent will be referring to that rating.

[LUCKy]

@Colts_Comments: For the fourth week in a row, neither Gosder Cherilus nor Anthony Castonzo allowed a sack.

#Bookends

#hashtags

[dudeski]

At least a third of the teams in the league make use of PFF ratings. If any of them are in the market for a cornerback, I'm certain his agent will be referring to that rating.

i don't buy that at all

[Superman]

i don't buy that at all

 

Not surprising to me.

 

However, if you had a great rating from PFF, and your agent was talking to a team that at least consults PFF's ratings (not saying PFF is the sole determining factor for any team, but numerous reports confirm that some teams use PFF in one measure or another), wouldn't you expect your agent to at least mention it?

 

http://www.twincities.com/ci_23075823/minnesota-vikings-arent-hooked-analytics-but-they-use

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/football/pro-football-focus-gaining-attention-for-its-ranki/nbLPG/

 

By the way, I'm critical of PFF in many ways. But it has its place in the discussion.

[dudeski]

Not surprising to me.

However, if you had a great rating from PFF, and your agent was talking to a team that at least consults PFF's ratings (not saying PFF is the sole determining factor for any team, but numerous reports confirm that some teams use PFF in one measure or another), wouldn't you expect your agent to at least mention it?

http://www.twincities.com/ci_23075823/minnesota-vikings-arent-hooked-analytics-but-they-use

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/football/pro-football-focus-gaining-attention-for-its-ranki/nbLPG/

By the way, I'm critical of PFF in many ways. But it has its place in the discussion.

what were those links supposed to prove? Pretty much states exactly what I thought. That pff ratings can't be taken as legit analysis

[Superman]

what were those links supposed to prove? Pretty much states exactly what I thought. That pff ratings can't be taken as legit analysis

 

You're impossible. Just forget I said anything.

[Day at the Hilton]

Pass rush: -8.0, -0.4 run defense. 3 sacks, 0 hits, 10 hurries.

So he was bad as a pass rusher, and about average in the run game (according to thier stats)

Thanks, and wow that's pretty bad but he's been making gains.

[ColtsLegacy]

his agent doesn't care about his pff rating

If his rating was bad his agent wouldn't care but seeing as he's 2nd rated cover corner on a very well known site, you bet your butt his agent cares.

[husker61]

Not surprising to me.

 

However, if you had a great rating from PFF, and your agent was talking to a team that at least consults PFF's ratings (not saying PFF is the sole determining factor for any team, but numerous reports confirm that some teams use PFF in one measure or another), wouldn't you expect your agent to at least mention it?

 

http://www.twincities.com/ci_23075823/minnesota-vikings-arent-hooked-analytics-but-they-use

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/football/pro-football-focus-gaining-attention-for-its-ranki/nbLPG/

 

By the way, I'm critical of PFF in many ways. But it has its place in the discussion.

 

it looks like the "1/3 of nfl teams use the service" comes from pff. i have a hard time believing something a web site says that would entice people to pay them when it is not confirmed by nfl teams. unless teams actually come out and say they are using the service, i'm not going to just believe a unsubstantiated claim by a web site.

 

i don't mind looking at their stats, but to say nfl teams use them is a huge stretch until proven. an agent, just like a web site, will use anything (true or not) to line their pockets.

[husker61]

If his rating was bad his agent wouldn't care but seeing as he's 2nd rated cover corner on a very well known site, you bet your butt his agent cares.

 

a lot of sites and so called experts are well known, but i am pretty sure gm's would have a good chuckle if a agent tries to use them in negotiations.

 

but mel kiper said..........

[dudeski]

If his rating was bad his agent wouldn't care but seeing as he's 2nd rated cover corner on a very well known site, you bet your butt his agent cares.

grigson would laugh the agent out of the room if he brought up pff

[ColtsLegacy]

a lot of sites and so called experts are well known, but i am pretty sure gm's would have a good chuckle if a agent tries to use them in negotiations.

but mel kiper said..........

Agents will do whatever they can to get their guys top dollar and any positive press will help negotiations -- second rated coverage cornerback on such a well known site is very positive press.

[Dustin]

it looks like the "1/3 of nfl teams use the service" comes from pff. i have a hard time believing something a web site says that would entice people to pay them when it is not confirmed by nfl teams. unless teams actually come out and say they are using the service, i'm not going to just believe a unsubstantiated claim by a web site.

 

i don't mind looking at their stats, but to say nfl teams use them is a huge stretch until proven. an agent, just like a web site, will use anything (true or not) to line their pockets.

 

Did you read the 2nd link?

 

The New York Giants have said publicly that they work with PFF

 

[Dustin]

That player's chances of playing in Jacksonville were finished, but Khan was just getting started. As the Outland Trophy winner, Joeckel would have been a no-brainer as a No. 2 pick, but the Jags already had a good left tackle, Eugene Monroe. So Khan dug up a Pro Football Focus study indicating that right tackles, Joeckel's likely position in the NFL, were becoming just as important in today's spread-heavy offenses.

 

 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9581177/new-jacksonville-jaguars-coach-gus-bradley-relies-analytics-espn-magazine

[dudeski]

Agents will do whatever they can to get their guys top dollar and any positive press will help negotiations -- second rated coverage cornerback on such a well known site is very positive press.

well known doesn't mean well respected

[ColtsLegacy]

well known doesn't mean well respected

It's pretty well respected just not by you but that's really not surprising.

[Superman]

it looks like the "1/3 of nfl teams use the service" comes from pff. i have a hard time believing something a web site says that would entice people to pay them when it is not confirmed by nfl teams. unless teams actually come out and say they are using the service, i'm not going to just believe a unsubstantiated claim by a web site.

 

i don't mind looking at their stats, but to say nfl teams use them is a huge stretch until proven. an agent, just like a web site, will use anything (true or not) to line their pockets.

 

I said at least a third. I meant up to a third. But teams and independent sources have verified that they use PFF in one respect or another. (I'm totally speculating, but I can't imagine any team not using PFF at all. It would be silly to not include their information in your player evaluation, even if you have your own analytics staff and do your own play by play ratings.)

 

Either way, this is sales. That's what an agent's job is, to sell his client to the team. And a sales pitch doesn't necessarily have one particular nugget of information that closes the deal. It's about building value, and all the different elements you have to offer are included. PFF has value, to a certain degree (we all have different ideas about what that value is, but only the most stubborn will argue that there's zero value). For an agent to talk to a team that he knows is familiar with PFF's ratings and NOT mention that his client is highly rated by PFF would be underselling his client.

 

That's JMO. I don't think it's that radical of a thought. It probably won't make the sale, but it's good information.

[ColtsLegacy]

I said at least a third. I meant up to a third. But teams and independent sources have verified that they use PFF in one respect or another. (I'm totally speculating, but I can't imagine any team not using PFF at all. It would be silly to not include their information in your player evaluation, even if you have your own analytics staff and do your own play by play ratings.)

Either way, this is sales. That's what an agent's job is, to sell his client to the team. And a sales pitch doesn't necessarily have one particular nugget of information that closes the deal. It's about building value, and all the different elements you have to offer are included. PFF has value, to a certain degree (we all have different ideas about what that value is, but only the most stubborn will argue that there's zero value). For an agent to talk to a team that he knows is familiar with PFF's ratings and NOT mention that his client is highly rated by PFF would be underselling his client.

That's JMO. I don't think it's that radical of a thought. It probably won't make the sale, but it's good information.

Perfectly said, the bold is exactly what I was thinking. I just can't articulate it so well.

[dudeski]

It's pretty well respected just not by you but that's really not surprising.

nfl people don't respect it. Why should i

[dudeski]

I said at least a third. I meant up to a third. But teams and independent sources have verified that they use PFF in one respect or another. (I'm totally speculating, but I can't imagine any team not using PFF at all. It would be silly to not include their information in your player evaluation, even if you have your own analytics staff and do your own play by play ratings.)

Either way, this is sales. That's what an agent's job is, to sell his client to the team. And a sales pitch doesn't necessarily have one particular nugget of information that closes the deal. It's about building value, and all the different elements you have to offer are included. PFF has value, to a certain degree (we all have different ideas about what that value is, but only the most stubborn will argue that there's zero value). For an agent to talk to a team that he knows is familiar with PFF's ratings and NOT mention that his client is highly rated by PFF would be underselling his client.

That's JMO. I don't think it's that radical of a thought. It probably won't make the sale, but it's good information.

polian says it is worthless information.

[ColtsLegacy]

nfl people don't respect it. Why should i

Your comment is erroneous. Par for the course.

How come you always show up in these PFF threads if you have zero respect for them and don't care how they grade players?

[ColtsLegacy]

nfl people don't respect it. Why should i

polian says it is worthless information.

Polian = NFL people

[dudeski]

Your comment is erroneous. Par for the course.

How come you always show up in these PFF threads if you have zero respect for them and don't give two licks how they grade players?

just doing my civic duty to educate people.

[dudeski]

Polian = NFL people

yes.

[Superman]

polian says it is worthless information.

 

I don't know why I bother, but:

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970203889904577199781897959096

 

Now, from temporary offices in an Indianapolis Marriott, the Giants are using pieces of Mr. Hornsby's data as they get ready for the Patriots. "It's definitely valuable information," says Jon Berger, the Giants' director of football information, who for competitive reasons declines to elaborate.

 

[MacDee1975]

Fleener finishes the year with the lowest drop rate of any TE in the NFL at 1.89%.

 

I thought I read on here that Fleener has bad hands?

 

Whenever I heard that I always wondered why a professional front office that makes a ton of money scouting players for a living would draft a guy in the second round to play a receiver position, if he had bad hands.

[Dustin]

I thought I read on here that Fleener has bad hands?

 

Whenever I heard that I always wondered why a professional front office that makes a ton of money scouting players for a living would draft a guy in the second round to play a receiver position, if he had bad hands.

 

That's about as bad as people here saying he was afraid to get hit. As if a guy could make it to the NFL if he was afraid of contact.

[Gavin]

I thought I read on here that Fleener has bad hands?

 

Whenever I heard that I always wondered why a professional front office that makes a ton of money scouting players for a living would draft a guy in the second round to play a receiver position, if he had bad hands.

Bey went round 1 pick of the 2009 draft.....GM's are not immune to bad decisions

[husker61]

Did you read the 2nd link?

 

i read them both. i also read the story where a giants and jags official said they use pff. if they do, that's only two teams. far from 1/3 of nfl teams like they claim.

 

i still don't think teams scouts/gm's put a lot of weight on their ratings.

[Dustin]

i read them both. can you post a link where a giants official said they use pff. and even if they do, that;s only one team. far from 1/3 of nfl teams like they claim.

Look at the quote from Superman above.

[husker61]

Look at the quote from Superman above.

 

just did and edited my post.

[MacDee1975]

Bey went round 1 pick of the 2009 draft.....GM's are not immune to bad decisions

 

That was a known, explicitly stated weakness that Al Davis was willing to overlook due to Bey's physical attributes.

 

GMs don't miss basic fundamentals like a guy being able to catch a damn football.

[zippyd]

Polian = NFL people

 

 

yes.

Last I checked, Polian was a media analyst, which means he would be part of the group called media people. To be part of the group called NFL people you need to be gainfully employed by the NFL or one of it's 32 teams.

 

Just doing my civic duty......  

[dudeski]

i read them both. i also read the story where a giants and jags official said they use pff. if they do, that's only two teams. far from 1/3 of nfl teams like they claim.

i still don't think teams scouts/gm's put a lot of weight on their ratings.

no way they give any credit to their ratings.

They may use things like snap counts for other teams. Absolutely zero chance they put any stock in their ratings

[husker61]

Last I checked, Polian was a media analyst, which means he would be part of the group called media people. To be part of the group called NFL people you need to be gainfully employed by the NFL or one of it's 32 teams.

 

Just doing my civic duty......  

 

so being one of the best gm's in nfl history means nothing because he now is retired and taking it easy as a media analyst. you don't lose knowledge.

[Superman]

i read them both. i also read the story where a giants and jags official said they use pff. if they do, that's only two teams. far from 1/3 of nfl teams like they claim.

 

i still don't think teams scouts/gm's put a lot of weight on their ratings.

 

I'm not interested in tracking down every team that might use PFF. It might only be two, but it's likely more than that, just being realistic. 

[Dustin]

- Drake Nevis finished at +3.1 on only 17 snaps in his Jaguars debut.

[zippyd]

so being one of the best gm's in nfl history means nothing because he now is retired and taking it easy as a media analyst. you don't lose knowledge.

His football IQ is irrelevant to my post. I was merely correcting erroneous information to enlighten dudeski. 

[dudeski]

His football IQ is irrelevant to my post. I was merely correcting erroneous information to enlighten dudeski.

he is a nfl guy. Regardless if he is on a team or not